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Rationalisation help required please

(42 Posts)
BibbettyBobbettyBoo Sun 24-Mar-13 06:33:35

Long, sorry.

DH was speaking to his brother on the phone last night. BIL and his GF are considering buying a house, and for financial reasons are thinking about getting it solely in his name. I said that, although it's exactly what we did ourselves, I wouldn't advise it, and that his GF should think very carefully before putting herself in that position.

DH wanted me to clarify, I explained that, although I paid into that mortgage for years, it isn't mine in any way, and if we had split up before getting married (or even probably after) I would be homeless and penniless. He then refused to believe that I paid anything towards the mortgage (he kept saying "I didn't make you pay rent"). He said that I was lying a number of times, still on the phone to his brother. I looked up my old bank statements online, and proved to him that I did indeed make monthly payments, entitled 'mortgage payment', every month between buying and moving out of that house. The amount was approximately half the mortgage plus half of all bills. (He didn't want a joint account for some reason, we do have one now (now I'm the earner and he's a SAHD).

I'm cross now for a number of reasons. He clearly has it in his head that he provided for me over that long period of time, which isn't true. He called me a liar, numerous times, in front of his brother. He has apologised, and doesn't see why I'm still annoyed.

This got me thinking about how he has been WRT money. When we first had kids, I was a SAHM. I worked part time (evenings), studied, and set up a business, but still felt very pressured (by him) to find more work.
He was then made redundant, I got FT work, and he has been a SAHD since. (I was SAHM for 2 years, he has been SAHD for 18months so far). I haven't pressured him into work at all, even though we live somewhere (abroad) where child care is very affordable. I remember how it made me feel, and I don't want to do that to him.

But, it's all a bit... difficult. I need to rationalise this a bit.

BibbettyBobbettyBoo Sun 24-Mar-13 09:33:36

Not really, no. We live abroad now.

BLOO3Z Sun 24-Mar-13 09:22:54

Can you go and see a solicitor to get your name on house deeds.. It's not stupidly expensive..

TimberTot Sun 24-Mar-13 09:09:50

Given his re-writing of history I would see if you can get yourself put on the deeds of both properties.

Check this with a solicitor but I thought you could be named on the deeds even if not the mortgage holder.

It may help to have both names registered if you need to sell one of your 2 properties as far as any tax liability calculation is concerned.

If he objects then you can see that he regards it as his even though you contributed to funding the mortgage payments.

This cannot be swept under the carpet as he now has form for belittling your financial contribution in front of his family.

May be you could approach the conversation by opening with....

"Have I ever made an issue of your lack of "financial" contribution whilst being a SAHD ?" .....

"No ?".......

"Well, how reasonable is it then for you to flat out deny/LIE ABOUT* (*=pick your choice of descriptive terminology) my financial contributions for a period of time when I was, as you can see in black and white, jointly-funding the mortgage repayments and household bills ?"

I personally would be asking him if he really believed his statement and if so, whether he thinks he has early onset memory loss as this is such a huge thing to totally forget and to be so sure that he was right to call you a LIAR in front of other people.

I'd also be reminding him of the time he made you cry in front of his parents about your lack of financial contribution whilst being a SAHM and how he pressured you into finding some way to bring in money. Summarise the difference in your treatments of each other in respect of financial contributions and ask for acknowledgement

Definitely keep all bank statements (from as far back as you can) under lock and key so they cannot be destroyed.

BibbettyBobbettyBoo Sun 24-Mar-13 09:02:40

No, the rent pays for the mortgage, no profit other than equity. He does regard that house as his though.

Yes, I think he does feel insecure about that. Perhaps he can feel better about that (especially wrt his traditional family) if he 'knows' he has provided in the past?

I think he may feel insecure about being a sahd- it is subconsciously important for a lot of men to be the provider, and therefor he has rewritten history in his head to say he has indeed been an excellent provider. If he is otherwise a good bloke it is probably all subconscious and the fact that he is like it with his family suggests he was brought up to believe man= financial provider. I don't think it is neccessarily about power and control.

CogitoErgoSometimes Sun 24-Mar-13 08:52:43

So are you saying he's regarding the rental income from the other house as his earnings?

CogitoErgoSometimes Sun 24-Mar-13 08:51:55

Doesn't matter, all the properties are classed as marital assets. However, the mortgage debt is actually his if it's in his sole name. Probably the best position to be in actually.

BibbettyBobbettyBoo Sun 24-Mar-13 08:34:37

Or rather, he does. hmm

BibbettyBobbettyBoo Sun 24-Mar-13 08:34:23

It was bought about 4 years before we married. Not on deeds now, no, as is his mortgage. Am on deeds on other house (we rent out the first).

CogitoErgoSometimes Sun 24-Mar-13 08:31:33

As I understand it the house was bought around the time they married. Who is named on the deeds is less important, therefore. It's classed as a 'marital asset' and assumed ownership is 50/50.

Kat101 Sun 24-Mar-13 08:25:34

Are you named on your property deeds now? If not, please see a good financial advisor and get this corrected.

Areyoumadorisitme Sun 24-Mar-13 08:10:23

Perhaps he's not the controlling awful person but it does sound like there are some issues.

Clearly not on that he is mistaken and he does need reminding, alao that this is actually quite important to you. I would also make sure he understands you feeling pressured about full time work when sahm.

I do wonder whether, instead of seeing it as you contributed nothing, he is trying to give the outside impression that he has provided for his family, particularly now as he is not earning? If it is a traditional family set up, it may seem very important for him to justify that he 'deserves' not I work for a bit because he 'provided' (or seems to think he did) for so long. No excuse but perhaps a bit of an explanation?

CogitoErgoSometimes Sun 24-Mar-13 08:07:35

Go through it properly and refuse to be corrected. Issue one.... if he ever dares belittle your contribution in front of his brother or the rest of his family, there will be hell to pay. Issue two.... time he got a job.

BibbettyBobbettyBoo Sun 24-Mar-13 08:04:09

Oh no, their parents were very much married before any living together happened. Very proper.

BibbettyBobbettyBoo Sun 24-Mar-13 08:03:17

So, speak up... just go through it will him again, but properly this time? Maybe later when the kids are in bed.

He thinks you;re still a second class ciitzen even though you are bringing in far more to this whole relationship than he is. He just likes being the "Big Man".

They do not have to hit yuo to abuse you. Financial abuse is also prevalant.

Not really surprised to read either that his brother now wants to do the same re buying a property (for financial reasons, my arse; no its because he wants it all to himself so that in the event of separation she cannot claim any share) as you guys did; this is likely what their parents did as well. Just as well for her that you were around to give her some straight talking.

BibbettyBobbettyBoo Sun 24-Mar-13 08:01:54

Absolutely a fair question, and I mean my response. Yes, they are quite misogynistic as a family. Far more than I like, anyhow. Seems quite standard for white British families!

How do I feel about him as a husband? I love him. I miss him when I work away. Nothing exciting, all very stable.

CogitoErgoSometimes Sun 24-Mar-13 07:59:32

It's a fair question.... smile I thought you were going to say Greek or Italian or something. Wouldn't be the first man from that kind of background to be 'modern' at home but act like a martinet in front of the family.

I digress. Your solution to this is to speak up, challenge and confront. Same as all bullies. Don't worry about making him feel bad because it clearly didn't bother him in the past. Turn the tables with a clear conscience.

Controlling men are not nasty all the time; if they were no woman would ever want to be with them. Controlling behaviours like he is showing you is insidious in its onset and creeps up on you over time. This is really about power and control. You have gone onto modify your own behaviours over time.

I have read what you have said about him as a SAHD.

How do you feel about him as a husband?.

BibbettyBobbettyBoo Sun 24-Mar-13 07:56:44

Yes, the culture is traditionally misogynistic Cogito. White English.

DaffodilAdams Sun 24-Mar-13 07:54:09

Completely agree with Cogito. He doesn't need to be nasty all the time, only when you object to his behaviour or what he is saying.

CogitoErgoSometimes Sun 24-Mar-13 07:53:44

He & his family wouldn't be from a traditionally misogynistic culture would they?

CogitoErgoSometimes Sun 24-Mar-13 07:52:47

So that he's the 'Big I Am' in front of his brother. He made you cry, berating you for not working in front of his parents. Face-saving. 'See I am the man in this house ...' Bully.

BibbettyBobbettyBoo Sun 24-Mar-13 07:50:38

But why think I had paid nothing? What for?

CogitoErgoSometimes Sun 24-Mar-13 07:50:18

Making you cry was nasty enough to alter your behaviour going forward. That's all a bully has to do. ... it's like dog training... if the dog gets a nip round the neck for pulling on the choke-chain it learns not to pull. You've learned to keep your mouth shut...

However, I can remember many times feeling like that .... means it wasn't rare.

Controlling people can be very charming and lovely when they're getting their own way. So as long as you're compliant and not challenging him I'm sure he's fine. Point out you paid the mortgage when he's trying to make out to his brother that he's the sole provider.... and you get an earful.

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