Mumsnet Talk

Dating etiquette isn’t hard and fast – everyone’s got their own path to love and own personal priorities.

Do think for a better experience one needs to eliminate men who make you and respect your own this is uncomfortable instincts.

In my case, and in the OP’s case, the guy took the lead in suggesting a more expensive option, then didn’t have the social grace to acknowledge our lesser financial situations and that it was HIS idea to upgrade the cost from a more "basic" date. For my date, it was £25 for wine and a burger, which was my spends budget for the week gone

It’s not the money or getting a free meal off a man – I wanted to continue the date in a relaxed way, not get an overpriced bit of meat! It’s the lack of consideration/thought and I choose what I want 100% but you pay 50% that is a Red Flag.

Another example

When we were dating, my ex said we should go on holiday. He didn’t mention splitting the cost, so I assumed he was treating as it was his idea, he had done all the planning/booking/initial paying and he was quite clear he wanted it to be “this location”/"a week not a weekend" etc. We went on the holiday – nice restaurants, posh hotels, which he covered.

He told me ONLY WHEN WE GOT BACK I owed him 50%.

I was young and wanted to make things work and wanted to "do the right thing". I paid.

The money was most of my bank balance. I was living on someone’s sofa whilst job hunting which he was aware of. He was going to a Very Good City Job and had a company scholarship.

If I had KNOWN I was paying 50% beforehand - which I was happy to do and which he could have told me - I’d have suggested two nights in a tent or in hostel somewhere nearby, not a week in hotels with flights on top. I had to subsidise HIS choice and preference, which I couldn’t afford.

(Actually saw him pulling the same stunt with his family later on – even when his parents were hard up, he would manipulate/shame them into coming on elaborate holidays/meals out which they couldn’t afford, because HE wanted them there).

Feminism has nothing to do with it – it’s just being a dick or not being a dick... I mean if the guy is a lower earner, then its FINE if he suggests a cheaper option and you go along with that !

It’s the "high earner and I want you to beggar yourself to live MY lifestyle and I won’t think of it from your POV" that is dick territory.

"I was quite ok with going halves, just not what I was used to in the past."

Well, ask yourself: where are those other guys you were used to in the past?

Perhaps it's time for a change?

any date I've been on the guys always paid and it's made me feel uncomfortable...I'd rather pay half or pay all!

It could well be because he is a serial dater and can't/won't treat all the women he goes out with. Some men who see loads of women feel resentful about treating women and feel taken advantage of. Plus some men are just tight.

Ah the bill. The first opportunity for misunderstanding and awkwardness.

YABU - surely it's fair to split the bill.

I once briefly dated someone who expected me to pay for everything even through I was a student and he was a doctor. Quickly became apparent he was a raving narc.

But halves is fine.

deedotty did you seriously not think to mention / ask / offer money until you came home?

Forget all the 'red flag' nonsense, stop over analysing and just enjoy dating.

I agree with those who say they'd expect to pay half. I met my DH 7.5 years ago and dating scene then was definitely half's. if you can't afford eating out once a week then talk to him about other options for date locations to keep it affordable.
Why would anyone assume a man can fund dinner / holidays etc without talking about it? I understand if a precedent was set on previous dates but no red flags for me - at least you know he's less likely to be a sexist prick with 'kept little woman' attitudes

I think you're BU.

You offered to pay half, he accepted. What's wrong with that?

Why should the man pay the whole bill on the second date? He hardly knows here, it is in both of their best interests to get to know each other better, why should the man foot the bill for thid?

I don't like it. It might be traditional, but lots of traditionds are worth binning. A man paying the whole bill assumes he earns more, he has control, he is in charge, that a woman needs looking after.

In my opinion once you have a boyfriend/partner/husband then they can offer to treat you, just like you can offer to treat them, but on a second date the guy shouldn't have to foot the bill unless he wants to.

Ok so I've never actually 'dated' so I don't know. But I think it's totally weird to expect anyone to pay for your dinner. I know with Internet dating you are supposed to go on lots of dates, are blokes supposed to spend hundreds of £££ a month treating every woman they meet? Insane. IMO, if you can't afford dinner, don't agree to dinner. Tactfully tell the person and suggest something cheaper. If they offer to pay, great, if not, also fine. I feel for men, being always expected to pick up the tab. It's shit.

you offered, he accepted.

Its nice to be treated, but its not nice to expect it.

Etiquette is one thing, but women have jobs too now and they didnt when the etiquette thing was all started. It wouldnt be a red flag at all for me. If youre skint, id suggest ordering something cheap on purpose and tell him that youre a bit skint this week in a lighthearted way, or next time you go out, ask if you can do something cheaper. That will give you the opportunity to see whether hes a cheapskate who is never going to treat you to anything, or whether hes a gentleman

Deedotty, I find it utterly weird that you would go on a holiday with someone and let them organise every little aspect of it, without once asking them about the finances and who was paying. That would be a red flag for me that you expect your partner to do everything and are needy and dependent, so I would run a mile.

Asking someone to pay halfers on a first date is the epitome of normal social interaction by comparison, no red flag for me.

The trouble is, ithaca, it takes quite a lot of social confidence to say upfront 'what's going to happen about the bill'. There's an unspoken culture of 'talking about cost = stingy' and a bit of pride about saying 'I can't afford this' - so it understandable that someone simply hopes for the best. Hopefully this kind of thread will help people summon the courage to challenge people who expect their expensive tastes to be subsidised by their companion... Bit of a detour from the OP, mind, I think I lean towards the 'go halves & be involved in budget-appropriate venue choice' camp. Maybe one day I'll have a date to try it out on!

But it is not just asking about the bill - if you know someone well enough to go on holiday with them, surely you know them well enough to express an opinion about venue/travel/cost? Or do you just sit there expecting them to read your mind? Sorry, that is odd.

I feel like I've entered the twilight zone.

You offered to pay half; he graciously accepted. What a bastard.

If you were happy to pay it's right that you offered, but then think nothing of it. If you weren't happy, or couldn't afford it, it was a bit disingenuous of you to offer, expecting him to refuse.

I think in the early stages of dating, the least you can be is straightforward. He sounds straightforward; not sure about you.

I would never expect a man i was going out with to pay the whole bill. that would make me quite uncomfortable. youve got a tongue in your head- if you cant afford it say you dont fancy it and suggest something cheaper. i cant believe someone suggested a man splitting the bill on a second date is a potential red flag. surely it shows a more equal viewpoint than someone treating the little woman or worse, making her foot the whole bill?

Are we in the 1950s? Paying for dinner obviously means he's paying for a fuck, so best get down to it after you've been "treated".
Seriously, people. Grow up. Pay your own way. Dating etiquette my arse.

Ithaca, deedotty did acknowledge that she was young, didn't know what to do so hoped for the best. My late teens daughters are generally very sensible but sometimes simply at a loss in unfamiliar social situations, never mind unaware of the manifold ways in which their fellow humans can try to pull a fast one, unfortunately...

And any woman who expected me to foot the bill after a date or two would be a massive red flag. Consideration of expenditure is expected, being funded isn't.

What Gay & Saint said.

My BIL was a serial online dater - his view was that first date was always drinks only (in case he/she wanted to cut it short!), he bought the first drink and if an offer to pay for the second drink came from the woman, he accepted. Second date was a meal and he appreciated an offer to go halves on it, which he also accepted. He's not a high earner so I guess it was done out of necessity and a lot of the women were higher earners than him, though I don't suppose he really knew that on the first date, unless there were meaningful discussions about each other's careers! Pleased to say he's very happy in his current relationship!

Incidentally my DP (of two years) was an internet date. First date we had a cream tea which he paid for. Second date was a film at the local cinema - I paid for the tickets, he bought the snacks. Since then we pretty much share the costs for everything but we do have similar budgets. He's said on numerous occasions, that one of the things that stood out in the early days was my willingness to share costs and not expect him to foot the bill all the time (apparently some women do!).

PS Ditto Gay & Saint

I think if a bloke has asked a girl out on a date then fair enough, he should stump up the cost. But its always encouraging to see a women at least offer to pay her way or buy a round of drinks. There are too many women out there who quite frankly take the piss when it comes to the expense of dating and courting, still happy to label some guy a skinflint because of some antiquated notion of Victorian chivalry that he should flash the cash and because ‘she is worth it’. Needless to say when I sensed that a women suffered from ‘princess syndrome’ it was unlikely that further dates would follow. This is 2013 not 1955.

I live in London and while I am on a good wage most of the women I have been on dates with over the years earned at least as much as me if not more, why should they get a free ride or get upset at the prospect of going Dutch. Generally my peer group of professional women would be horrified if they were seen to be not pulling their weight financially if they were in a position to do so.

I'm a bit shocked that you expect a free meal from someone you hardly know. And now you're judging THEM because they accepted your kind suggestion that you actually pay your way?

I'd run a mile if I was him. You sound like hard work.

Hear hear Henrietta first page of this thread is like the twilight zone! I am SHOCKED to see the number of women who not only demand and expect to be paid for, but then make false offers to pay half (apparently making an offer you do.t mean is fine) and for the other person to accept it is 'a red flag'??!

My God. If you can't afford dinner there, say som don't eat there THEN offer to pay half THEN secretly fume about it and bitch to other people. Grow up and stop playing games!!