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They aren't worth it...

(181 Posts)
Tasmania Sun 17-Feb-13 17:31:58

Why do some women end up in a relationship with guys - have kids with some even - who are not worth it?

I've met women who despite all the warning signals were completely blinded by... lust (can't be love, surely?). These were men who already showed signs of being abusive while dating.

Why don't people just turn their backs on them, and move away?

Not being controversial. Just wondering what goes on in people's head. My head is automatically guided by logic, and I don't know why, but I spot such guys from miles away, and just never tend to like them...

northlight Tue 19-Feb-13 20:18:25

Maybe if you listened to this play, OP, you might gain a little insight into the complexity of domestic violence.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01qq690/A_Firm_Hand/

It's about half an hour long but in a fairly concentrated way it illustrates many common features of an abusive relationship - including the victim's hope and belief that the abuser might change.

For those who are in, or have escaped, an abusive relationship be careful of triggers.

ParsleyTheLioness Tue 19-Feb-13 18:41:40

Melbie we're all worth better than being abused thanks

melbie Tue 19-Feb-13 01:33:32

Because I don't feel like I am worth it really either.

TheSilveryPussycat Tue 19-Feb-13 00:36:59

I've been having a bit of a think about this thread, and there is something about being in love - this is a pseudo-psychotic state, as is infatuation, which imho is a similar yet different state [inane grin] This state often involves the suspension of logic...

This is a wonderful feeling we seek to hang onto or recover, when, inevitably, it fades. And it's one designed to stop us looking too closely, while still responding to a fit (in all senses of the word) male.

I don't know about anyone else, but I think I captured that, and projected it onto my ex, so that he always looked like the him I first knew iyswim. And I went for seeking that emotion in myself, rather than realising, from his behaviour, what kind of man he had become.

My/?our love came and went, I expected it to ebb and flow, and I feel the Who captured the pattern as it was until I began to wake up, partly with the help of Mumsnet:

'Our love was famine, frustation
We only acted out an imitation
Of what real love should have been
Then suddenly ...

Our love was flying
Our love was soaring
Our love was shining
Like a summer morning

Flying, soaring
Shining morning
Never leaving
Lying, dying

Is this the natural ebb and flow of a happy longterm relationship? Or the classic cycle of abuse? Charm, transitioning to abuse, switch back to charm when needed, transitioning to abuse...

My bloke didn't have the classic charming side to him but I was biased towards hope, and his behaviour did not involve violence or calling me a cunt. It was much more insidious than that - belittling, dismissing. And when our fortunes improved, he showed that earning a living was not high on his priorities. Nor was sharing the housework, though for the last 20 years of our marriage he was nearly always in the house.

Yes, I knew he had faults, from when I first met him, and I was and am sure that I have faults of my own. And then that glorious time when the faults melt away... and then reality creeps up on you.

I have got 2 lovely DC though, and I managed to keep my friends despite my ex's rather hermit-style approuch to life, though my mental health was being damaged by living with Ex.

Since I divorced him, I am in ongoing recovery smile

So ladies, if you do find yourself in this kind of situation, don't waste energy on bemoaning your own shortcomings - make a plan. Start with checking out the financials...

TimidLivid Mon 18-Feb-13 22:32:24

I will say I was young my dm made me feel worthless I had nofriends no experience and thought that iwas stuck then had chidren and its even worse when I tried to leave me parents told me to sort it out and whens its bad I wait for the good bits as marriage is meant to mean something and sometimes its good for years sometimes bad but its all I know . I don't know how to be angry or be nasty or be assertive the words just stick in my throat so being too nice is a curse

scarredbutalive Mon 18-Feb-13 18:51:58

Yeah, well, your last post did not make any sense at all. Have you switched personalities?

Whatever, I, me, personally have learned a lot here. Trust your instincts, trust yourself. There are a lot of people here I would like to meet and to talk to. There are a lot of people with genuine problems. I´ll never meet them. It´s okay. It was helpful to know they are out there. I would like to help them, too. "If I could, I would, ...

YNK Mon 18-Feb-13 18:46:41

People have tried to open your eyes op, and you just keep saying you can see perfectly well with them closed <sigh>

Tasmania Mon 18-Feb-13 16:53:58

scarredbutalive

Actually, I chose to answer quite a few things, despite the rather abusive comments that were thrown at me. People can't expect others to read their minds, and know that from your side of the world something might seem offensive that from my side of the world no one would think it is. The questions I asked get asked quite frequently by fairly innocent women in RL who never had the trouble of having to see things from your side.

I just wanted to know why people stay in abusive relationships or why some (not all) continued dating certain men, despite the early warning signals, or even comments by friends.

This is probably one of those sensitive cases (like the subject of ethnicity) where people get offended by things that those not affected don't seem to get offended by.

scarredbutalive Mon 18-Feb-13 16:40:30

tasmania
I repeat: it´s not offensive, it´s just weird. It´s not necessarily something you "mind", it´s something you react to with "Huh, what could that possibly be about?!"

Why are you picking just some things you answer and leave the rest uncommented? And: what enlightenment did you expect out of this thread? Did you want an honest question answered? Did you want to get/ give information? Did you want to bond with people? Did you want to gain real insight? Did you get what you want?

handbag No, you´re right. It´s not neutral. It ´s like to start a converation with a bad bait.

foolonthehill Mon 18-Feb-13 16:38:36

since Tas is obviously unoffendable, s/he won't get that her posts are offensive to some...clearly gymnastics, diets, etc. don't ruffle the feathers at all!

Tasmania Mon 18-Feb-13 16:34:16

I am a member of weightloss forums - and this would have been my reply:

In my case, it started with an accident that made it difficult for me to do sport. So I put on weight, and granted, I thought I could continue eating what I've eaten before. Lightbulb moment after several months. I couldn't. Losing weight without doing sport is difficult when you've been used to a certain amount of food. Dieting is not as easy then. I am trying to buy more healthy food (although, admittedly, I just ate some fattening vanilla ice cream!!), and restrict my intake. I hope this will help me to lose weight - and I'm looking forward for that day in my life, when I can look into the mirror, and see not the person I am now, but the one I want to be.

HandbagCrab Mon 18-Feb-13 16:21:26

I've met women who despite all the warning signals were blinded by greed (can't be just love of food). These were women who had already shown signs of being obese.

Why don't people just stop buying unhealthy food and stop eating so much?

It's hardly a neutral proposition if you were to write that on a weightloss forum is it?

Tasmania Mon 18-Feb-13 16:16:25

scarredbutalive I'm sorry, but just as with the diet analogy, I would not mind the gymnastics one either? Says she who couldn't do the split when her cousins all could...

scarredbutalive Mon 18-Feb-13 16:11:18

"Logic" goes back to the greek word "logos" which means "word" but also "reasoning". It has only partly to do with experience, it has also got to to with the ability to articulate oneself coherently. If you say you are able to use logic to differentiate right from wrong people while others can´t, that implies these others lack the ability of coherent thinking. This is not a neutral statement.

Anyway, I´m sorry plinky, I´m far from wanting to stir something up here and I´m willing to apologize for some of the outlandish insinuations I have made. But I still think it´s a weird way to open up a conversation. Artvandelay has given a great analogy, I give another one. What if you start a conversation at a party with the sentence "I have always been good at gymnastics, I can´t wrap my head around why some people aren´t athletic enough to do the splits." ... It´s a weird opening, it´s not neutral, it divides people into those who can and those who can´t. It may not be offensive, but it´s just ... weird.

Tasmania Mon 18-Feb-13 15:29:35

ArtVandelay - As said previously, I do think that "logic" is relative. It's based on experience. For others, something may seem logical, when for me, it simply isn't. Most of the time, I know very well that it's not because of stupidity, but because I know that that person figured out something I didn't. That's why, as past posts have said (not mine, and as we know it does not apply to all and sundry), if you do come from an abusive environment, you may be more likely to accept it in future because you don't know it anyway else. So while for me, it would be logical to "move away" from such a relationship, for that person, it isn't because they view it as the norm.

As a matter of fact, as we are using the analogy of dieting - I do know what you mean with it being annoying when people just say what you say above on dieting forums - but from experience (because I find it hard to lose weight), I know that some people who have zero problems with fat have naturally fast metabolisms, and burn fat quicker... or actually, most just live a much more active lifestyle than me.

BUT I do not blame them for having a fast metabolism or being more active, or even wondering why I do not do more sport (I'm wondering as I type why, actually!)> And I don't think by saying that, they mean to offend. Sometimes, just a little bit of showing how it is from your side goes a pretty long way.

HandbagCrab Mon 18-Feb-13 15:17:10

Ah well, least this woman was high up and forthright op! I bet she didn't get abused...

ArtVandelay Mon 18-Feb-13 15:13:51

Plinky your last statement is very true. I agree.

I still think that 'what has triggered your weight gain? I am thin and know when to stop eating, why don't other people?' is wierd if not downright nasty.

Stupid was implied quite strongly by the fact that the OP states her head is so packed with logic that she can see what non-logical women cannot. Abuse is the result of not being logical. I have a problem with that notion, I see other people did too. Fair enough.

I'm happy to agree to disagree on this one.

Tasmania Mon 18-Feb-13 15:07:26

^^P.S.: People referred to her as Cruella de Vil impersonated... if that helps.

Tasmania Mon 18-Feb-13 15:05:06

HandbagCrab - one of the HR women was actually in a significant position of power, because she wasn't just covering HR - she was higher up than the man in question. Though I can't expose anything more than that.

plinkyplonks Mon 18-Feb-13 14:58:41

ArtVandelay I could understand this sentiment if the poster asked.. why are you all so stupid?! But they didn't - and I'm a little confused why people are inferring this from the OP's original post. I just don't see it :/ I think the equivalent on a weight loss forum of asking what has triggered your weight gain. It's a neutral question, obviously on an emotive subject, but that doesn't give us the right to attack the OP proactively seeking a different view on life. Even if you place the OP's own motives for posting aside, this forum helps many hundreds if not thousands of people (who may not post a reply but simply digest the experiences we have here) so there is hardly ever a 'useless' question asked on this forum.

HandbagCrab Mon 18-Feb-13 14:57:25

Perhaps the women in hr were being led by example? It is hard to go against the status quo after all, particularly if you are not in a position of power. You have experienced this yourself, so you perhaps have some empathy for this felt and how others might find it more difficult than you did?

ArtVandelay Mon 18-Feb-13 14:49:50

For what its worth, I reported this thread last night and MNHQ seem satisfied its a 'real' poster.

I don't think I got aggressive, just took the pee a bit. The whole thing just seems really off to me... I mean if I went on the Weightloss area and asked 'why do you lot get so massive? Can't you see where its heading by the time you hit x stone? I don't get it - I don't eat much, why don't you stop eating so much?' Then I would expect to be torn to bits and I'd deserve it. It would be rude, superior and unnecessary. I just feel that this OP is driven by bad motives. Sorry for people that have got upset - please take no notice.

Tasmania Mon 18-Feb-13 14:31:43

What do you mean? I didn't just join the site. Yes, it's the first time I posted in the "Relationships" part of the forum. But that is just another part of the bigger Mumsnet forum?

plinkyplonks Mon 18-Feb-13 14:30:42

Guys, this really has to stop? Isn't this thread just getting derailed through some really aggressive comments. I really don't understand why you are all so angry. The OP has a different life perspective than you, hasn't had a hard enough life, gone through a bad relationship.... etc? That's not his/her fault. Trying to play the blame game - the OP hasn't tried to, so why are you? More to point - it's completely off topic.

scarredbutalive Mon 18-Feb-13 14:24:11

And you know what´s also suspicious: OP, you seem to be the only person who joins this site not because of a problem you have, but with the (rhetoric, I must assume) question: Why do so many women have a problem?!
grin

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