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They aren't worth it...

(181 Posts)
Tasmania Sun 17-Feb-13 17:31:58

Why do some women end up in a relationship with guys - have kids with some even - who are not worth it?

I've met women who despite all the warning signals were completely blinded by... lust (can't be love, surely?). These were men who already showed signs of being abusive while dating.

Why don't people just turn their backs on them, and move away?

Not being controversial. Just wondering what goes on in people's head. My head is automatically guided by logic, and I don't know why, but I spot such guys from miles away, and just never tend to like them...

Tasmania I wasn't really in contact with their mum. I believed my ex's version of events r.e their marriage. I know differently now.

TisILeclerc Sun 17-Feb-13 20:42:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Tasmania Sun 17-Feb-13 20:45:19

snowshapes It was just a question. You can substitute women for men in my OP... but since this is mumsnet and obviously not dadsnet, I said "women".

Not blaming women who end up in the relationships. But asking why if there were signs before - as in retrospect, there often are - they stuck to the guy in question.

There seem to be many reasons, and one reason I heard in RL was to always give people second chances... something I don't actually believe in as that has has the tendency to result in someone getting hurt.

ArtVandelay Sun 17-Feb-13 20:46:00

Hey OP, I just hope that if your superiority ever lets you down and you need some help, that there are people around that aren't as silly and judgemental as you are.

The key in your last post is in retrospect Tasmania. The signs aren't so glaringly obvious at the time, I promise you.

Tasmania Sun 17-Feb-13 20:53:14

TisILeclerc If you really have nothing to add - why post??? (In the same manner as you are accusing me of not doing my research before posting.)

Not being patronizing - it's just my way of saying that being happy to be single until the right one does come along is often better than to go out with anyone who's OK, but probably not right for you. That's what I would tell my DC...

Tasmania Sun 17-Feb-13 20:55:55

ArtVandelay - as per my above post. English is not my native language - which happens to be a lot more direct, and can be mistaken for rudeness by Brits it seems (who often talk behind subtle words).

Of course, I can only speak for myself, but to someone who has been in a marriage like mine, an OP like yours makes me feel quite shit. It implies that I have been weak in some way or pathetic for not immediately realising what kind of man I was with and getting away. People's reasons for being in these sorts of relationships are complex and leaving certainly isn't as straightforward as people make out.

Tasmania Sun 17-Feb-13 21:07:14

MatchsticksForMyEyes - I'm sorry for that. Not what I set out to do. It's just that in my culture, we are used to say things in a very direct manner.

I've been warned about this before - e.g. at work, when writing an email here in England, I actually have to beg people to do what is essentially their job (a lot of "please", "if you can" and "that would be so helpful"). If I don't, it's apparently rude. Where I come from, people would think that's insane - because you're spending a longer time writing a paragraph of niceties when a sentence would have been enough. You simply ask...

ArtVandelay Sun 17-Feb-13 21:09:34

No Tasmania, this is nothing to do with directness and everything to do with smugness and superiority. Trust me, I'm married to a Dutchman and I live in Germany, coping with directness is not really a challenge for me.

But surely, in your culture, there also exists a bit of empathy?!

Lueji Sun 17-Feb-13 21:10:19

I do wish you all the luck with your DP.

smile

I hope the 10% doesn't turn sour.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

FairyFi Sun 17-Feb-13 21:12:18

You are saying quite clearly that you have all the knowledge about how to avoid abusive men; and you quite clearly do not, or you would know how this happens!

You are just lucky that the 10% of the not-so-perfect bits of your 'everso perfect' H wasn't anything more! I don't think you have the perfect logic for this, that would put you as rather the highest above everyone else wouldn't it, as we trust and believe in people until we find out otherwise. I don't think it reasonable to put my friends 'to the test'?!?!?

If the 10% that some not-so-lucky ladies have witnessed and turns out to be brief glimpses in the extremely well concealed sinister and cruel soul that lurks underneath a very strong 'veneer', is it their fault? That 'they' cannot see somehow where you 'all-seeing' can? and how they 'stay'.

I support the suggestions of research, as I don't believe it to be simply answered in the way you and your logic do.

Tasmania Sun 17-Feb-13 21:13:13

MatchsticksForMyEyes - Re empathy... which is why I said "I'm sorry for that" in my last post.

I don't think the OP merits quite the kicking she's started to get. If you have always been surrounded by generally reasonable people and were brought up by parents who loved you properly and taught you that you were valuable and worthwhile and deserved good treatment, you might find it bewildering that so many other people seem so willing to accept shitty treatment in personal relationships. Because another major factor for women who stay a long time with abusive men is that at some point in their lives someone convinced them of one or more of the following: that they themselves weren't 'good enough' and must always try harder, that they were bad and needed to be punished or controlled, or that men are more important than women and must be placated and obeyed.

What I meant was, if you had the ability to empathise, you would have thought about some of the reasons people are in relationships like these and not posted your OP!

FairyFi Sun 17-Feb-13 21:15:48

you understand that to speak that way in 'Brit' land is rude then?

ArtVandelay Sun 17-Feb-13 21:20:40

I just hope that you've been on the sherry OP and that normally you are a decent person. Not content with slating victims of abuse you've now moved onto declaring British customs and manners "insane" and advising us how to do it better.

Because the signs aren't always obvious.

Because if you have been brought up to be a nice, obliging, polite little girl, then you are used to people asking you to do reasonable things, and doing them willingly.

Because if you were brought up by nice people, what they 'ask' is reasonable.

So when you are asked to do unreasonable things, you are rather left without the practice to say no, without being not-nice, unobliging, impolite.

It's not a question of not being 'happy to be single' and just falling into bed with the first man that seems 'ok' hmm
It's usually more thinking that you have found your 90% perfect man and then trying to make things work, as I'm sure you would if you and your partner had a falling out.

FairyFi Sun 17-Feb-13 21:25:16

who loved you properly and taught you that you were valuable and worthwhile and deserved good treatment, you might find it bewildering and confusing that someone you love and thought you knew could treat you badly and not realise, until it was too late, the very oh so subtle ways of undermining you until you are scared to have an opinion.

Tasmania Sun 17-Feb-13 21:25:55

SolidGoldBrass - THANK YOU!!! I CAN'T QUITE TELL YOU HOW GRATEFUL I AM FOR YOUR COMMENT...

That's exactly where I am coming from. The girls I grew up with all fell into that category - with parents often telling them that most guys were not "good enough" (imagine Robert de Niro playing the WASP dad in "Meet the Parents" for whom no guy would ever be good enough for his dd). Hence, they often did not have a boyfriend during high school (until they left home, at least)! And even then, they always remembered that comment and rebuffed most guys. Basically, they'd dump a guy like a hot potato at the earliest sign of disappointment. That's how I would want DC to be.

So for someone like me, it is a bit bewildering, as SGB has put it, that people put up with a lot more than that.

FairyFi Sun 17-Feb-13 21:28:37

second chances - if your H were to foul up, being human an' all, I guess he'd be out the door then?

foolonthehill Sun 17-Feb-13 21:30:05

I wrote a long post, then decided...what's the point? If you don't understand how we end up there then you probably don't want to...so, lucky you, you picked a good-un

Tasmania Sun 17-Feb-13 21:30:38

ArtVandelay - I'm teetotal. Please read my comment above. SolidGoldBrass gets where I'm coming from.

The "insane" bit was linked to what I have to do at work - basically write a whole paragraph of niceties in an email to ask people to do what they are being paid for... when a quick sentence should really suffice.

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