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Turning Tavern(89 Posts)
Hi I am new to this and could do with some advise, is there anyone out there who was on the previous Turning Tavern threads?
We do Both like gin!
We have both just broken up with men - me a month ago with an abusive dickhead who I still have feelings for but that could be very easily forgotten given a bit of attention from WIQ. She is also a hottie - I've never fancied a girl IRL, and it's all very lovely, we are both very feminine and I like that. She'd been dating a guy for a month and he's just broken that off and she is upset about that. She doesn't seem to be into the idea of dating a woman, not that I've outright asked her, it's only a week since we spent the night together, whereas I would be.
What's the deal with you?
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
I've been on a couple of these threads(name changed) and they really helped me discover myself. God, I hate that expression really, but I guess that sums it up really. I can honestly say, that if it weren't for these threads, I wouldn't have pursued my feelings. I am so glad that I did. I'm not saying that it's all been easy though.
I know that it doesn't always work out the way we hoped, but that doesn't mean that it can't in the future.
If anyone wants a chat or are struggling with their feelings, feel free to pm me I have a lot of experience with this, good and bad and would like to think I could help someone going through something similar.
So the thread is still going then! My WIQ has cooled off.
I'm here, my head is totally lost tho so not sure ill be any help x
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Hello, well I've lurked on here but never posted. I'm more to be lurking on the EA thread having come out of a relationship with an abusive man.
Well I think I'm happier to be posting here. I never had a WIQ but have always known I was attracted to women but haven't ever been inclined to act on it. Well earlier this year, I met a girl through my ex and we became friends and I went to stay with her this weekend, dinner, drinks, dancing and went back to hers. I was a bit nervous thinking I wouldn't know what to do, but it surprisingly came very naturally and felt right. The thing I was most struck by was the cuddling and everything afterwards, and how normal that felt.
It was both our first times with another woman though not really sure what happens now. We are both very 'straight' for want of a better word and enjoy men as well. I don't think either of us is freaked out or anything. I would definitely be up for a repeat performance but I think it is important not to get in over my head and be glad that she is undoing some of the damage my ex did and be thankful for that.
Hi Outta ~ Well done for doing what you did, that really takes guts. Of course you're going to feel vulnerable because that came from your heart but just sit with it and allow whatever comes up to come up and know that you are being supported by your higher self that guided you to take action in the first place. Be really, really kind to yourself and those feelings will pass. Don't forget why you did this, because it was torturing you mentally, so try to give yourself a (well needed) break. Try and turn the whole thing around and move forward with a big smile on your face, feeling good that you took that scary leap and it will be the best possible outcome for you.
The sufi mystics have some great wisdom when it comes to affairs of the heart....read this!
How much the Beloved made me suffer before the Work
Grew entwined inseparably with blood and eyes!
A thousand grim fires and heartbreaks~
And its name is "Love"~
A thousand pains and regrets and attacks
And its name is "Beloved"...
Heartbreak is a treasure because it contains mercies
The kernel is soft when the rind is scraped off;
O Brother, the place of darkness and cold
Is the fountain of life and the cup of ecstasy.
Rumi (Harvey & Baring, 1996, p. 124)
How could we know how deeply we have loved or lived if we never have experienced the pain of loss? Joy and pain are inseparable. The above quote from the Sufi poet Rumi reminds me of the preciousness of life, the past, my memories and the mercy of the Universe providing existence, life and people to love and to cherish. The ability to be grateful in the presence of pain is an integral part of the living process. To choose avoiding this pain would be choosing to have not loved or lived at all.
The Sufi mystics see "pain as essential to purification and as essential to the alchemical transformation of the dull human mind and heart into their secret gold" (Harvey & Baring, 1996, p. 124). It is the vulnerability, the open heart, the willingness to love enough, and the risk of experiencing pain and loss that makes us alive. It is not cherishing the wounding, but embracing our ability to feel, to be present, and to know the essence of life. According to Sufi wisdom, suffering is inevitable and necessary in order for our souls to grow. I have experienced loss deeply and often and believe, as the Sufis maintain, we must learn to trust in its ordained necessity. In the dance called life we must meet life as we find it and be present in the face of that which we desire least but cannot avoid. That is the Sufi way. We do not "run to suffering, but neither do we run from it" (Harvey & Baring,, 1996, p. 125).
big hugs x
I should add that we both have young children & male partners. & she's in a position of authority over me at work.
Hi Outta, didn't want your post to go unanswered. I was quite a regular on the TT towards the end of the art thread. & in a very similar situation to you.
I know you're feeling raw & wounded right now, but please remember what you did was incredibly brave. I'm so sorry you didn't get the response you wanted, but that doesn't mean you've done anything wrong. You've been so upfront & honest & that is always admirable.
My own situation ebbs & flows with weirdness, even now. The life-changing event in my wiq's life has now taken place, & I love watching her grow into her new role, but our relationship can never be a simple platonic friendship so it's hard to navigate.
We spend time together & she emails me afterwards to say how good it was to see me. I don't know how to respond. On nights out, I can feel how drawn to me she is, asking friends to budge up so she can sit next to me - like we're kids at school or something! She's been dropping little hints about famous women she finds attractive; how unsexy naked men are to look at, that kind of thing. She comes up and puts an arm round me - it feels so good I need to catch my breath, but when I reciprocate she pulls away. So confusing.
Months ago, when I confessed my feelings to her I got no response really. She did arrange to meet me "to talk" but then stood me up. Eventually she rescheduled & I'm afraid I chickened out. Now, after a break, it feels as though we're both trying to build a platonic female friendship on a rather shaky foundation of mutual sexual attraction. Odd indeed.
I am writing to update everyone who has been kind enough to show support to me and my situation on this thread.
As I mentioned I have been completely hung up on a woman for about the last 3 years, the situation has consumed my thoughts, taken up so much of my head space and eaten me up. My attraction to the woman completely surprised me and has caused me a lot of mental torment. I have found over the last 6 months it has been taking it's toll on me, I haven't been sleeping properly and I feel that I haven't been present in myself for my kids and my family. My constant dilemma was whether to say something to her about it or not. This woman is in my daily life, I have to see her most days as our kids are very close and at the same school, which is why I have been putting it off for so long.
After much deliberation I decided that I just couldn't carry on as I have been any longer and so we met up last week for a meal. I had to do it for my own sanity, it was one of the hardest, most heart wrenching evenings of my whole life. It was quite surreal at the same time and felt like I wasn't really there. I asked her based on things she has done in the past whether she was attracted to me and she said no, she said it with such honesty that there was no uncertainty around it, I told her how I have felt about her, as in order to set myself free from this I had to be totally honest, she was very kind and gave me a hug and said we wouldn't talk about it again. We then had to struggle through another 45 minutes of chat before we could get away. It was awful, really awful, I felt so bad about putting her through that, but I just felt I had no other roads to go down in order to try and get my life back on track.
Despite everything it had to be done, I feel crushed and humiliated beyond belief. I haven't seen her since but will I am sure soon. Strangely I am not so upset about the outcome, it is more about the humiliation it has caused me, so this probably has shown me that perhaps she didn't mean as much to me as I had thought. I am worried that I won't get over this for ages, this really worries me, it is a relief though knowing the outcome so I can slowly dig myself out of this hole. If anyone has been through this or can help me understand how long it takes to feel OK again then I would be grateful to hear from you.
Thank you so much for writing this down. I have PM'd you.
Hi Outtaleftfield, I cant see your original message as I think you have withdrawn it. I can only extend my thoughts and best wishes for you and all the other women who have posted on this forum. I can share my own experience in the hope it might help you decide if you really want to embark on this journey with all the risk that this entails.
I fell for another mum at my childrens school some time last year. The friendship became really close over the Christmas period although she remained oblivious to my intentions and culminated in me disclosing my feelings for her by text (I was a bit drunk at the time it was following a Christmas party!). This was completely insane and could have resulted in the end of our friendship as well as deep humiliation for me. However I think even if this had been the outcome, I would not have regretted doing it as I had become completely consumed with desire for this person and needed the catharsis of disclosure.
In the event, it seems that my feelings were reciprocated although she was not fully conscious of having desires for other women. Within quite a short space of time a sexual relationship developed which has simultaneously caused us both so much joy and so much pain.
We are both married, she unhappily so. If I am totally honest although my marriage is not without problems, it is essentially OK and my h is a decent man who does not deserve to be treated in this way. I think part of the problem is that I have been able to develop a real intimacy with this woman and talk to her about things that my h cant talk about. My h and I have a good marriage on a practical level, but do lack emotional intimacy.
I dont really know what my sexual orientation is technically. I really dont think I am one of those women who have lived their life in total denial. I fell in love with men and have had some very intense affairs. I have been able to connect with men on a deep emotional level (although I really dont think that I have a particularly close connection with my h). However, if I am really honest I dont think that I have ever really totally enjoyed sex - Ive not hated it exactly, but have always had the sneaking suspicion that it could be better.
I have loved being with a woman, our time together has been amazing. However, I also know what Im doing is wrong. I am deceiving those who most important to me. I dont think I could ever leave my h and subject my children to the misery of a marriage break up. Im stuck really. I yearn for my lover all the time and hate not being with her but feel constantly guilty about my family. The situation feels impossible and we dont know where this is going to end up. I want her to end her marriage as I think her h is emotionally abusive towards her but she has understandable feelings of guilt and loyalty towards her own family. Clearly what she decides has to be her own decision.
Anyway, Ill stop rambling now as I could go on forever as this situation is consuming all my thoughts. Please dont flame me!
Hi follow Thinking about what you have just said, i guess the only outcome that would give me closure would be if she said that she too felt that there was a connection and it had freaked her out too, but hey we are both settled in relationships so let's just leave it here, laugh about it and hopefully never feel the need to bring it up again...that would be my ideal outcome and I do think I could then move forward. But the chances of that happening are, who knows? So... thinking about what you have said, I don't think I am in my higher self enough yet to take her on. I so desperately want to, in the hope that the above may be what will happen, but you're right it could make things majorly awkward if it really upsets her and she goes totally weird on me as I have to see her with my kids. Life is about taking risks but as I still don't really feel fully myself at the moment, maybe I should hold off. I do so want to move it on and feel so crap about it a lot of the time that the temptation to play a different record is quite alluring, at least another crap song would have different lyrics! ( sorry, had a few glasses of wine!)
Outta thanks for the warm welcome! Its great that i might have helped you a little bit...I'm really pleased for you that you've turned a corner, and I think it's always good to stretch yourself, to jump out of your comfort zone....retraining sounds good!
I think you've moved on so much from before and the thing about declaring your feelings to your wiq, I think you really need to tune in and ask yourself will this really help you, or will it create complications that will send you reeling off course. Only you know the answer to that, but really I think these things have a way of sorting themselves out, and you don't have to worry or stress about it. Sounds like you have a mission to get her on her own anyway. I do think that bringing things out into the open would move it on, but it may not be in the way you expect. However, life is about taking risks and that's what it really means to be alive...otherwise nothing would ever shift, everything would be dull and dead. You don't know the outcome, but you CAN control your reaction to it, and how you move forward...ie. it doesn't have to make things worse for you, only YOU can make things worse for you...she doesn't have that power over you. I think you need to feel this on a deep level before you approach her. Basically there is no riht and wrong way of doing things, there is just a kind of flow to everything and its whether you are strong enough and relaxed enough to really follow your true path and deal with everything that comes your way. Sometimes we just are too scared or too expectant of a certain outcome. Then I'd say make sure you are in your higher self, and do it from the right place. Hope that helps.....
I'm sure the feelings come and go as to whether to say anything or not. It sounds like your life will move on when you start your new venture, job whatever, and you'll meet new people and maybe she will fade into the background finally?
So great to hear from you!! You always 'pop up' just when i really need you! Yes, very much thanks to you I have moved on, wow....It has been a mad couple of months, I have made some great decisions, a big one is to retrain in a different field, alongside what I already do ( this i genuinely don't think I would have done if it hadn't been for you telling me that I was being given a gift and that the universe doesn't give you something you can't handle) I realised that I had to turn the chaos into something positive and that I need more passion in my life and although I am not hugely happy living where I live, I could make it into a positive time of my life, stretch myself and make it work for me.
I have also realised that although I find this person very physically attractive, I do not want a future with her and you are totally right, i obsess when I am not happy in my marriage, it feels a bit like a kind of self harm thing. ( That sounds really crazy and I am really not that crazy!) I must get some kind of fix from it in a negative way. The councillor I have been talking to has been treating it like an addiction and has discouraged me from talking to her about it, but I am a sensible person most of the time and honestly what harm can come of me just getting it off my chest? Just saying calmly how I have feltl? I don't want her to declare undying love for me, I don't know what I hope to achieve but you are right, i desperately want some kind of closure. I am so glad that you think I am ready to talk to her, I don't think she will take it too well, she will laugh it off and probably make me think I was imagining things ( I remember her kissing me on the lips enough times though!) She has always tried not to spend time with me on our own too so this could be a challenge in itself!
I am still very undecided as in no way want to risk making things even worse for me, but you have given me strength (no Pressure!) and i think it could be a risk worth taking.
You are one cool woman, thank you
Hi Outta....haven't been on the thread for a while but thought I'd pop up and say hello. Things have obviously moved on for you which is great, but I guess you now want to move it all on a stage further, ie. have some kind of closure. It sounds like you have your head screwed on and are totally in a different zone to before. You've already pretty much accepted that you wouldn't have a future with this lady so that's clear. As your crush has gone on for some time, it's probably become a little addictive & maybe releases dopamine into your system, and you only fall back on it when you're not getting on with your husband...so that tells you it is not really about her but about the feeling associated with the crush. (Only maybe, I could be way off course here.)
I reckon you are ready to talk to her about it and face the consequences. Taking a risk is the only way to really move on, otherwise it will carry on being same old, same old. Life is about taking risks.......you either have a breakdown or a breakthrough! Be brave and empower yourself, you will feel great just for getting it out of your mind, you will feel free. Don't even worry about her, you don't want anything from her and you can't control her reaction, you're doing this for your well-being and for your personal growth. You will both learn something.... Good luck!
I find when things aren't going so well with my husband, I start obsessing again. I was doing really well, but feel I have slipped backwards (me and my H haven't had a good weekend!!) It is really a nightmare as it can become so distracting. I know that I don't want a future with my lady, we don't have nearly enough in common for that to be a possibility, also I may not feature on her radar at all. I know that enough people have written on here and said that generally you can feel if there is an attraction and i have felt enough to know that something is going on. What has happened for me through this is I realise that I am probably bisexual and as i have written before if my situation ever changes I would consider a relationship with a woman. My big problem is that when I slip backwards and start obsessing again it really upsets me and I so want to be free of it. I know my marriage needs work and I am trying hard to make us closer, we have been together for 20 years and I can't imagine my life without him. But, when my mind starts going it really stirs me up and I wonder if I should just sit down with her and tell her what I am going through, I don't want a run off into the sunset scenario, so won't feel disappointed if she has never felt anything for me, I mean that, it would be embarrassing, but perhaps this would burst the bubble and set me free. I would love to hear from anyone that has done this and what the outcome was?
I don't know what helpful advice to give you, other than just cut all contact if you can, same would apply to anyone you are seriously attracted to, unless you are in a position to do something about it. I can't do this, I would love to be able to know that I would never have to see her again.
Hi outta, things are much the same. I've tried to avoid seeing her as much as possible the last couple of weeks. I had to change my work rosta around alot to accomodate staff who were absent so its meant I managed to avoid the place I would usually see her without it causing me any problems from a work point of view.
I have missed seeing her and I know I will have to this week. My feelings haven't changed, I'm still as confused as I was when I first posted. Part of me wishes I had never met her, I don't want to feel like this. I thought I was happy in my marraige before but this has thrown me.
I've been trying what you and follow suggested about leaving things up to my heart as opposed to head, I'm getting a bit better as distracting myself when I'm starting to
obsess think about her
Hi much I was wondering how you are? Has everything calmed down or got worse?!
Hi Joes - I can offer you some advice. You are welcome to PM me.
Hi there joes. I haven't left my DH but I am in a relationship with a woman with his consent.
I had never thought about a polyamorist life (although had wondered why monogamy is the norm) and got married in my early 30s; thereby shelving my attraction to women alongside my attraction to other men. But, when passionately kissed by a new best friend, I HAD to talk to my DH and after much talk and a few hiccups, I am now deliriously happy to have a DH that I love even more and a gorgeous girlfriend.
Honesty, Connection and Communication are the only way. And these can start now.
Best of luck and remember your happiness should not be secondary to the equation.
The TT does not condone cheating, lying or judging, while acknowledging that for some people the unexpected sexual attraction to women throws up an whole load of other issues.
We are hear to listen, share and give support where we can.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Thanks for the replies. Outta I'm sorry to hear your situation has been so hard but on a purely selfish note it's great to hear that someone else has been through this too. I feel really isolated at the moment as there is noone I can talk to about this.
I totally get what you say about it being out of your control, thats how I feel as well. I just feel drawn to this woman for some reason in a way i have never felt to anyone else, male or female. I'm a bit of a control freak in the rest of my life so don't like feeling this way tbh. The days I see her and we chat etc i'm over the moon. If I feel she's been curt with me (can be when shes busy) or doesn't have time to talk it leaves me feeling really upset. It's more of an emotional attraction I think, I don't know if its actually sexual which is confusing me even more.
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