Mumsnet Talk

I thought I would start a new thread.

And I want to summarise as succinctly as I can, as I think that will make me feel positive, as I am feeling very differently to how I did when I first posted.

I posted about my husband a couple of months ago, wondering how I could get him to stop
pressuring me for a fourth child. I had only really wanted two, but was 'persuaded' to have a third. I had serious complications in my 3rd pregnancy, but my husband dismisses them completely. Until I posted here I really had no idea that it should be ultimately my choice whether or not to have further children. I do now fully appreciate it is my decision, and am now using an 'extra layer' of contraception. My husband is still coming up with arguments as to why we need a fourth child, which I am trying not to get too drawn into.

There are some other things about my relationship that I have realized are not normal, after having seen the reactions of people here. It seems my H is financially and emotionally abusive. There have also been some occasions where his behaviour with the children is not great, although he is not physically abusive. My previous partner was sexually abusive, which does seem to make it hard for me to see the problems with H sometimes, as H is not as bad as ex.

He has been very against me working (though I worked almost full time after my first two children, doing a job I loved). However in the past week I have been lucky enough to get a part time position in my old line of work that I am very happy about.

I have also finally, after lots of lovely people advised me to, on many occasions ,, contacted WA who I am meeting up with next week.

Oh, and H, who loves babies, doesn't help out with any of the bathtime, nappies, or anything related to household chores either..

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1635788-GettingBigs-family-will-not-be-getting-bigger

It is of some concern to me you have prematurely begun a new thread. Is this because your last thread was moving towards a denouement?

I'm also concerned that, as yet, you do not appear to have begun to realise that your h is not merely 'emotionally and financially' abusive - he is also verbally and sexually abusive.

To use a word you may understand, your h is abnormal. He is intent on obtaining self-gratification at the expense of you and your dc and he will use any means to exert his control over you and over them.

Oxford, I am going to try and answer your questions about how it is possible to have sex without saying yes or no, but in a non abusive way.

I do think it is due to my previous partner. When I first got together with H, he did once say to me, very early on, that I seemed to expect him to want to have sex with me despite him sensing that I wasn't that into it. I was really embarrassed, and it led to me telling him a bit about my ex in order to try and explain myself. Basically my ex wanted sex whatever I felt like, and the easiest thing a lot of the time was to say no and then give up and say yes so it wasn't forced. My ex also had a thing about really wanting me to show pleasure, his ego was massaged hugely by that. The easiest thing was therefore to show pleasure as quickly as would seem feasible. Can you now see how that translates into my relationship with H? He always initiates it, I feel I have to show I will go along, that is not abusive is it? I don't say yes, but I allow him to go through a routine without saying no. But it is not as awful as you suggest when you ask whether I mean he just climbs on top and does whatever he wants. But somehow we are caught up in doing what H initially said he didn't want to do, I.e. having sex when I am not into it, but to be fair he may not know how 'not into it' I am.Also I do not cry, he doesn't carry on whilst I cry ever.

I don't want it to sound like I never have more normal sex though, at times in both relationships I have been able to enjoy it too. It is not always as bad as it might sound above.

Love the new thread title GB!

The sex thing- do YOU want to have sex? That's what it boils down to, if you don't (and god knows I could understand why) do you feel that you go through the motions anyway? Could you say no?

The other thing is, if he is tampering with condoms, that is sexual abuse also.

Izzy, I thought I needed to start a new thread rather than post some more this evening but not necessarily be around to start a new thread if it gets to 1000? I can't always get onto MN to check, depends what H is doing as he doesn't approve of it. He is asleep at the moment though.

Izzy - there are 980 posts in the previous thread and a number of posters suggested that GB start her own new one (as opposed to someone else starting it when it reached 1,000, as happened initially with her second thread) - I don't think it's anything more than that.

GB, I've lurked but not posted as quite frankly I have nothing more useful to add, but as you start this third thread I just want to say how awesome it is to see you starting to put yourself and your children at the front of your mind, instead of your H. I would think that, until very recently, putting him and his wishes first, even subconsciously, would have been your priority; the fact that this is shifting is helping you to see the way forward. I'm so thrilled for you re the part time job - does your H know yet, or are you waiting to get all the daycare bits sorted (or have I missed that?) AND meeting WA. New dawn, new day indeed.

Thank you for answering me, and sorry for asking such invasive questions. I just couldn't see a way the sex could be non-dysfunctional if you never expressed or denied consent. I understand now, and whilst I don't think it sounds good, I am relieved that he is not as Neanderthal as perhaps I described. I feel very sad for you that this is sometimes the only way for you to feel and act about sex. I wonder how much your OH senses you are doing this, when you do it. I can't believe he doesn't get a hint at all.

Excellent opener, BTW. Just the fact that you've written all that, admitted that this is the reaily, is so brave, and it is so impressive and encouraging, considering how you were at the start of your first thread. Back then, you didn't believe you were allowed to do simple things without your Dh's permission. Now you are able to see what is wrong and how. You are, indeed, getting stronger. What a woman!

Welcome to your new virtual home!

At some point in time you will come to the realisation that your h has used your confidences about your previous relationship to manipulate and control you sexually and in every other way.

but to be fair he may not know how 'not into it' I am As I've observed on your other thread, you can put money on your h knowing exactly what he's doing and he certainly knows when you are 'not into it', but that doesn't serve to stop him because it excites him to see you as all-compliant to his will and it reinforces his belief that you are his creature to use as he wishes.

Yes he does know about the job, and the childcare is pretty much sorted.
He is saying he doesn' t want me to spend the money I earn on household expenses, as according to him we do not need the money, which is good is some ways as I get to keep it/use it to supplement child benefit, but bad in other ways as he is calling it my "shoes and handbags money" which I think makes it seem a bit like the job is an extra hassle we don't really need. But I am still pleased.

I hope you spend it on shoes and handbags then although an escape fund would be a better idea

Or your 'preparing for the future and having some independence' money

God, what a patronising fuckweasel that cunt is But on the other hand, you can use his sexism to your advantage - like Postmanpatscat says, use it to create an escape fund.

Shoes and handbag money, when you'll be bringing in more than him! He really does have the tiniest penis, doesn't he?!

Getting Am so glad to hear about the job, especially as you seem to have enjoyed work very much before. Well done on sorting out (almost) the childcare. You have done so much in such a short time - you should be really proud of yourself.

Your dh seems to want to be in charge and to run everything - to see himself and be seen as such a 'big' man that he does not need your money and has to put your job down. This could be to your advantage. I don't know about shoes and handbags, but if I were you I would be putting as much as you can quietly away somewhere and fudge child spending and expenses a bit to allow you to do this without anyone realising. This would help if in the future you need some financial resources of your own, perhaps in short order.

That's mighty big of him.

In belitting your earnings as 'handbags & shoes money' that is 'not needed for household expenses', presumably that money will yours alone and you won't be required to spend any of it on childcare?

No Izzy, it is shoe and hand bag money after I have paid all the child care, I.e. there is not really that much money left. I know that isn't how it should work, but only through talking on here. H thinks me working is like my own separate project so I should finance it, as I had originally agreed to be a SAHM

I second/third/fourth the secreting of your 'handbag/shoe money' as an escape fund.

Still here rooting for you GB.

I'm pretty sure it was said on last thread but childcare is a joint expense. We have a joint account and whilst in my head I budget childcare from my salary, there isn't enough left to be useful. So we look at it as a household income (no matter how or who, I have an excellent presence on eBay for example) and household expenditure.

Friends have joint AND sole accounts for their salaries, but ALL household bills, including credit cards used to buy house stuff and childcare and clubs etc come from the JOINT account, with both having full access.

If you can improve your relationship, now that you are working, this is perhaps something to push him to do?

Brilliant thread title GB !

Would it be ok to not have sex when you don't want to? I know this is awfully personal thing to ask, and no expectation that you will, but its time for honesty - if you think you wouldn't be putting yourself at risk atall? Time to empower yourself and only have sex when you really feel like it, would that be ok? I think it would be very good for you. Just to keep yourself out of that situation unless you are wanting to give/receive pleasure and be close.

You can feel differently, and have the freedom to feel differently about what you want now (especially bearing in mind your previous experiences) Unless your H has never had any other sex than that totally driven by him, it would be (IMO) impossible for him not to know!?!

Good luck with your plans for starting work and childcare! Can't believe all this in such short time.

yy to sdreams joint accounts with money put in to share the access to bills, household money costs.

Good opening post to your new thread. Hope all goes well with WA meeting.

GB, I have lurked for a long time and am wishing you all the best. You are doing so well, and as you know, working again will open up a whole new world of possibility for you. Like others, am gobsmacked by how patronising the "shoes and handbag" comment is. Beware though that he does not come up with uses for that money (no doubt that " benefit the family") Squirrel it away, perhaps after a little frivolity! You and your DC may need the lifeline it can give. Good luck, and keep posting.

btw, had wanted to follow up on the previous thread end, about breakfast. I've certainly made mistakes about how to guide and discipline and sought help with first DC that would run circles around me, knowing me and my bendy inconsistency whilst trying to be strict about certain things, but food is something I just couldn't withhold.

Everything else goes by the wayside, except the breakfast - shoes not clean, uniform not ironed or repaired, or whatever, books missing, well you get the picture. School has had to be faced at various times without these things being present and correct, but not missing breakfast - I am also guilty of suddenly making a promise to withdraw something that i suddenly realise, oh shit, I don't know if I can go through with that and fingers crossed I don't have to! so I can understand that but, again, not breakfast (although bizarrely, messing around at dinner time has led to having to leave dinner not properly eaten and sent to bed (maybe once or twice only in total) is that awful folks?

I knew that from your reading it on your previous thread, honey, but, as it's a prime example of the way in which this man exerts control over you you, it's worthy of repeat here at the beginning of your third thread.

When you left your previous abusive partner, did you enrol on a Freedom Programme?

If not, I trust you will bear it in mind when you eventually conclude that you and your dc deserve far more than living under your current h's jackboot tyranny.