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Just had a blazing row with df.(67 Posts)
Like the title says I have just had a blazing row with my father.
Ds1 went into say hello and knocked a portable hard drive off a table. Df has
Millions of fucking computers and hard drives and gadgety shit with assorted trailing wires littering the room he spends all his time in. Him and my mum live in a huge house but spend most of their days on computers in one room.
My mum is fab, but constantly apologises for my dad's behaviour, always has, always will. Anyway df balled out ds1 and I let df have it both barrels I'm afraid.
Df is a selfish man, typical baby boomer in all right jack type, who thinks he can tell me where I'm going wrong with life, etc. and him yelling at ds1 was the final straw. He never does anything with ds', the last time he took them on a day out was dec 27th 2010 and that was only ds1 and only because my mum suggested it because ds2 was still tiny and I had noro.
No one ever says "no" to my dad. I'm sorry to say I yelled at him that he'd be lucky if I ever bothered my arse bringing my kids to him again because when they are there he just ignores them anyway.
Ds1 said to me he didn't know what the point of grandad was. He's their only grandad and is too busy with his stupid computers and HIS hobbies to ever give them a minute. I'm really very sad about all this but I know that he'll never change and it reals my heart to think he's missing out on their lives.
My mum said that he's "not a kiddy person", as if that excuses his behaviour somehow.
I don't know what to do or say anymore.
What if anything do you get out of this relationship with your parents now?. You still want their approval?.
Do you really want to spend any time with your parents any longer after this sorry episode?. If this is what he is like after 20 minutes as well...
He was not a hands on dad and he is certainly not inclined to be in any way a hands on grandparent. Honestly the two of them could not care less. You want him to be more civil, well that is not going to happen.
Also such people never ever apologise for their actions nor even take any responsibility for them.
Your father is at heart a self absorbed and selfish person and your mother simply enables his behaviour to continue; she is also at fault here as well so I would not let her off the hook either.
You can and should protect your children from such toxic influences. BTW I doubt very much whether your father has any intention whatsoever to leave his property to his grandchildren at all.
It may well break your heart to think that he is missing out on their lives but your Dad likely does not see it that way at all.
Honestly I would cut the pair of them off as of now but you probably want to maintain some sort of relationship with your enabler of a mother. She is also a part of the problem here.
If a slap is acceptable in your family life, startail, it's time you reassessed.
There is nothing more irritating for a person who does not like children that children being inflicted to them, especially when they break things and parents expect them to show enthusiasm instead of irritation.
Your father does not like children and has unequivocally shown many times that he does not enjoy spending time with your DS1. When are you going to accept this fact? It may not be what you what to happen, and he certainly does not sound like a fun person to be with. But that's who he is, and you just have to accept that. Honestly, your children won't miss on anything... they would if he ever had been different.
Also, "threatening" him with not bringing the children any more is ridiculous. He is obviously looking forward to exactly that thing happening.
What other posters have said really, if your dad doesn't want a hands-on relationship with your children then that really can't - and shouldn't - be forced.
It ought to be quite easy though to visit without risk of knocking over your father's things or visit with your mother elsewhere. There are plenty of outdoor spaces.
Do you have any kind of relationship with your father? Is it dependent on whether he's the sort of grandfather you feel your children should have?
One thing that I didn't like from your OP was this... "What's the point of grandad?". I would step on that as quickly as anything. Your father is a person in his own right, he's doesnt exist for the sole purpose of being a grandfather and I wouldn't let my child say that kind of thing ever again.
Words fail me, you would actually hit someone for accidentially knocking something off a table?. It was an accident seemingly waiting to happen bearing in mind that the OPs father has seemingly millions of computers and other assorted computer type stuff lying about. He's using the computers in place of actually interacting with other people including his family.
Attila, while I entirely agree that slapping a child for accidentally dropping something is wrong, you will have to agree too that the grandfather has the complete right to have as many gadgets as he wishes in HIS own house, and it's the responsibility of the visitor to either be careful or just meet elsewhere if they don't like the house.
I think little dc are more or less bound to knock stuff over once in a while in a cluttered environment.
A loving GP won't give a shit, or will deal with it. A non-loving GP will be an asshole about it, and I wouldn't bother taking the dc there.
deal with it sensibly - ie keeping them out of the room, putting stuff up out of reach, having a child-safe area.
Its his house yes and his stuff but if he is in there all the time then he is not interacting with the family. Children are curious and OPs child probably wanted to know what his grandad was up to in there. He overreacted completely to what was an accident. OP's father is using the computers in place of family because it is to him far easier to act with a machine than make any effort with any actual person. He strikes me as being completely inadequate and his wife enables his behaviour to continue.
To me Oscar's Dad was a crap father and he is just as rubbish as a grandparent. Unfortunately Oscar can only change how she reacts to them.
Attila... we really don't have much information from the OP. You can assume what you want but you've already suggested that you 'bet the grandfather isn't intending to leave anything for his grandchildren'. How do you know that?
Also, unless you're thinking that the OP is pretty damn neglectful in taking her sons to a home where one of the owners doesn't welcome them, you might just have to leave room for the possibility that perhaps OP's father wasn't that awful to her growing up.
"if he is in there all the time then he is not interacting with the family" --> So what? It's his decision, there is no law that a person has to want to interact with his ghrandchildren. He very obviously does not want to. The OP should stop pushing t and accept that he just does not want to interact with her son. it's clear enough for anybody else. And the desire to interact with a person is not something that can be forced on anyone. The more you push it, the worse it gets.
Children who are now adults of inadequate parents still seek approval from them albeit on a subconscious level.
I can see why OP has taken her children over to her parents house but they are clearly not wanted. OP can only change how she herself reacts to the two of them.
He was ok as a father growing up, I have happy memories, but it was always on his terms. Honestly I think he doesn't realise his behaviour is abnormal.
Regarding the portable hard drive it didn't break, it was knocked off by ds1 catching the wire as he stepped over it. He then picked it back up and it was fine! We were all in the kitchen and ds1 had pottered off to go and say hello, because ds1 is a kind boy who wants to say to a man he thinks he should love. It's pretty shit to think that my df doesn't seem to love us enough to come and say hello to us and not yell and rant at ds1 for an accident!
My mum is very involved with my boys, she looks after ds2 a couple of days a week (her request), she comes to their performances/assemblies, etc at HER choice, not mine. she genujnley loves her grandsons and the time she spends with them, she loves being with them, honestly. I do however think she has been with df so long and never stood upto him that she doesn't know how to anymore.I wouldn't want to cut her out because it would be bloody unfair to her, but I need to evaluate our relationship with df.
"Df always tells ds1 "oneday all this will be his", so it's like he wants grandsons but not with ever having to deal with them and the convenience of living off an income we provide via the farm, but not having to be civil."
OP, I could be reading
between the lines your post incorrectly but I get the sense there's concern that your son will not inherit the farm from your Df? Apart from him not playing the role of doting grandparent, perhaps you are too keen for them to 'bond' because of this?
It sounds like you are the one providing your Df with an income via the farm and this is a worry for your family's future. IME it is best not to push a parent who doesn't want to be involved, you still have your fab mum.
If he is not open to reason or confrontation, I think you have to try to be creative in your dealings with him. If you can't go through an obstacle, try going round it? See him less often? or at a different location? or visit GP's house when he's not there? This way you can keep the potential unplesantness to a minimum. Its nice if kids have a good relationship with their gpts, but honestly much more important that their mother/father loves them. At least your mum sounds like a hands-on grandma so you are very fortunate there.
Honestly re:farm I have asked that ds1 not be told "all this will be yours"
Because I don't want to put that kind of pressure on him or ds2. I want them to be free to make their own choices about their future, not pushed into a decision by others expectations.
Oscar when I read your post I was nodding along. You could be describing my Dad - in fact they sound of an age.
He wasn't an awful father, but he wasn't a good one either. He is very self centred. My stepmum enables his behaviour. My sister and me always say that he likes the concept of children but not the reality of them. He doesn't really have much of a relationship with his grandchildren and tbh I don't think he's much bothered.
I understand where your are coming from, totally.
That sounds quite a miserable post doesn't it?
I've accepted what my Dad is like and I don't feel sad about it any more..that's just who is and he won't change now.
Just wanted to say I understand. I.don't get people who behave like that either but ultimately it's his lot. I also know where your DS is coming from with his "what's the point in grandad" comment. He doesn't need to be punished for that, he's expressing his feelings in the way that children of his age. I remember how crushing it is to be belittled, ignored and knocked back. It's a horrible feeling, at any age.
I don't mean his lot, I mean his loss! Typing on a phone.
Bloody hell startail! That's sad :-( Maybe it is a sign of the times that people are becoming more and more computer obsessed and less interested in real life, people and families. Am signing off immediately lest I become one ...
my DF is a very loving grandfather and DH a very loving Dad, but neither of them is likely to react well to anything other than the smallest child bouncing into their workrooms and knocking things over.
A hard disc is expensive and delicate.
That all these computer and other hobby junk collecting men ought to live in less of a mess goes without saying.
However, having known a great many of them over the years, this doesn't happen.
He didn't bounce in, he walked in and caught it by accident. He is 7. It was a genuine accident, the sort of thing that could happen to all of us.
Thanks for your advice though everyone. Except startail. Really you need to look at your life.
I knew I'd bring out the anti corporal punishment brigade, you are boring and predictable.
When one of you comes up with a method of discipline that actually works. I'll listen.
The horrific limit pushing I've seen from friends DCs and the stress it causes both parties leaves me wondering if modern methods make anyone happier.
Also, I was cross that the OP seemed to think that her DS could damage stuff of his grandfathers and not be punished. So there was an element of devils advocate
Not because her DS was being silly, but because she has larger issues with her DF
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