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Allowing the OW access to the DC(22 Posts)
You've had great advice here OP, I hope you take it. I have a friend who was in a similar situation (her ex re-married a vile woman who is ghastly with her kids) and the kids, now 14 and 12, have simply decided they don't want to see their father anymore.
Him telling his child it is all your fault? That is horrendous of him - it is HIS.
Your DD is very clued up and knows he is putting OW before them, from what she said " She is a grown woman and we are children". So sorry it has disturbed her so much and is affecting her behaviour.
She was furious with her dad at blaming you, bless her.
Do hope it gets sorted for your DC sake.
I agree with what everyone else has said.
But one thing is jumping out at me, why do your children know the ins and outs of all this?
They shouldn't know about what is going on between the adults here.
Im not suggesting shielding them from what their father is doing to an extent that they think he is fabulous, but it sounds as though they know way too much about the OWs involvement/antics.
I am not criticising you as I know this sort of thing is very very difficult, but your DDs sound so very distressed by it all.
Thanks you all. You are marvelous. Sometimes you can get so lost in a situation that you can't see the wood for the trees. We try so hard to do whats right for our children don't we and assume that fathers do the same. Sometimes it simply isn't the case. You have clarified so many issues for me and given me renewed strength to kick the evil pair in at a touch instead of constantly giving H the benefit of the doubt. I will wear a tentative smile today and look at eldest dc with more understanding.
In your position, I would see him in court.
Not because of what the OW has done however, but what he has allowed her to do. This is not a good father, and I would make him prove it to people who have no emotional vested interest.
Take your eldest dc to a child psychologist and get her problems evaluated. You need official back up. I hope you have kept all evidence of OW's campaign of hate against you and can demonstrate how your husband, over a number of years, facilitated her abuse of you.
My heart goes out to both of your dc. They've had so much to deal with and it's all been far too much for them - and especially for your eldest who has resorted to trying to fill the void she feels by 'stealing love'.
Perhaps you were too preoccupied with the ongoing long-going off/on drama to give her much attention and it's probable that, as children tend to do, she blames herself for the discord between her dps and her df leaving.
In short, she's in pieces just as you were, and it very much sounds as if the 3 of you would benefit from a perod of calm as suggested by tribpot.
Don't facilitate any more contact vists/overnight stays; if he gives a stuff he'll apply via the Courts at which time the dcs wishes will be taken into account.
And don't communicate with him except via the solicitor that I sincerely hope you'll instruct at the earliest opportunity if you haven't yet divorced the twunt.
So... You only have to facilitate contact for 4 months a year going forward? That's brilliant! You and your dc can have some breathing space.
If the OW continues harassing you you MUST involve he police.
Oh and yes, initially I made a complaint to the police about her - I presume they will still have a reference number. H knows about all the abuse - including her hacking his email account and has done nothing. I think he's terrified of ending up on his own.
The basic problem is that I can't believe anyone could be so evil. I've met some nasty people in my time - I was in the RAF for 13 years too and have seen some truly nasty goings-on, but I can honestly say I've never met anyone with such a lack of integrity and moral values. And thats just her! A bit of me still expects to wake up and find it's all been a horrible dream! The only good thing to say about my H is that he's still paying the mortgage, so at least we're not on the streets. The RAF have done NOTHING. H has now moved himself onto a Sqn that takes him out of the country for about 8 months a year so access will be even more limited. Youngest DC worships her dad and wants to see him. Eldest maintains that she hates him (hardly surprising) and runs a cycle of 6 months, won't speak to him or see him, 6 months, tolerates him. But it screws her up terribly. I just don't know what to do to help! She won't talk to me, her grandma (who she adores) or any counselor.....
Sounds like they would benefit from a period of calm no contact. I doubt he will be that fussed by the sound of it.
I think your elder daughter blames you because she trusts you still to love her no matter what she does. I very much doubt she feels the same about her father after his despicable actions.
How do you accept that the man you've been married to for 16 years has turned into a total shit and puts some cheap low-life tart above his own kids??
The writing was on the wall when you took him back five times in a row. God knows how your children feel about living through this. However, it's done now and he has gone for good. Focus on yourself and making 2013 a new start for you and your DDs.
The limited access is his choice. We moved from our house where we'd lived for 10 years to our dream cottage in the country. He was to live in the mess and come home at weekends. Within 3 weeks he's begun the affair. He never intended to leave; just to continue sleeping with Barbie (her email address) in the week and come home at the weekends.
He was invited to spend Christmas with us but declined because he 'didn't want to leave Gemma on her own'. Youngest dc (11) was SO upset; "but she's a grown up mum, what about us??". OW went up North for New Year so he asked if he could have the girls for a few days. They came back utterly exhausted and both with stomach bugs, then eldest dc started kicking off again. Really badly. I've been fighting off tears every moment since. I feel as if I'm such a total failure. Desperately want my girls to be happy and have tried very hard to make it so but can't seem to get through to eldest. She is so ANGRY. Did I mention that she caught H texting the OW once and confronted him. He screamed at her "that's it; run and tell your mother, you're just a fucking troublemaker!". She just stood there rooted to the spot and white as a sheet.
How do you accept that the man you've been married to for 16 years has turned into a total shit and puts some cheap low-life tart above his own kids??
I phoned him yesterday to talk about the problems I'm having with eldest dc and he just said 'she's 13, that's what they do; I can't have her, I have work on Monday'. Then ten minutes later he sent me a text message by mistake that he should have sent to the OW. Asking when she was coming round for sex. That's all that was on his mind. Not bothered that his daughter is going completely off the rails......
You need to be addressing the emotional abuse dished out by by your ex. In regards to the OW, there's no way I would allow my dc to be in her presence.
If your children don't want to see their father as it is distressing them, there isn't a law in the land who would force them, if they are old enough as you say -10 etc.
Oh and YES, your Ex allowed all this to happen, the WHOLE fault is HIS. Don't lose sight of that.
Go to the CAB, get advice about her harassment of you if it's still on going and don't facilitate contact if your DC don't want to go. See if you can get a non-mol order.
Let him take you to court, produce copies of the emails etc and you ought to have a strong position to keep them safe and away from this abusive man.
I have not been in your situation but if I did find myself in it I'd get legal advice, or just stop contact and then let him take me to court for access if he can be bothered (and get legal advice then). Never mind the OW, it sounds like contact with their dad is doing your kids no good at all.
I'm really sorry because it's obvious from your post that you're still hurting so much but really there is absolutely nothing you can do to prevent contact with ow.
Basically the dad has as much right as you do to introduce his children to anyone he wishes to and take them wherever he wants.
If he is an unfit parent and you can prove this then you could have contact restricted to a contact centre but this looks unlikely.
I think the ow has behaved dreadfully and basically you shouldn't have had any contact with or from her from the get go but unfortunately unless you have concrete proof she's being horrible to your dc then it is up to their dad. If the dc are saying they don't want to see her their dad needs to be aware of this and decide what to do.
I've been through a cheating husband leaving but honestly you need to let it go for your own sanity.
Although she sounds absolutely vile, I'm not sure why you are focusing on her to the extent that you are. He actually only has (extremely upsetting) contact with his children when she's not there anyway.
Given the level of abuse she has put you through (which I assume your ex-H has ignored/encouraged?) I don't understand why you didn't go to the police. Why not do so now - or at minimum take legal advice as Wakey suggests? She has broken several laws.
Why are you not seeking to address some of the problems stemming from the contact that your DC currently do have with your ex? It's clearly unacceptable for him to be on at your older DD telling her you drove him away. Do they actually want to go and stay with him? Under the circumstances I would be looking for ways to ensure supervised contact only - your dc are clearly not handling the separation well (not surprising given what a monumental arse their father is) and it doesn't seem to be in their best interests to be having the contact with him that they are having.
If he is trying to turn the children against you like you say he is then I would say no more unsupervised contact and go through a contact centre...he is being emotionally manipulative to your children. And as far as TOB (that other bitch) goes, if this were me, she wouldn't get within a country mile of my DCs...I would report the harassment to the police and stand up to her shite! I'm sure a criminal record is more 'frowned upon' than adultery in military circles.
I'm so sorry for all the shit you have had to shovel OP
The shitty reality is that you can't stop him from having her present when he's seeing the kids. The hope that you can have is that if she even looks at them the wrong way, then he will step in to protect them from her very obvious issues.
Have you ever had any police involvement with regards the harrassement ? if you still had the proof, then you could try speaking to the police to see if they could caution her? That should add some weight to being able to stop your kids being subjected to her.
TBH this sounds like it has been badly handled from the outset but from your OP it sounds like your children are old enough to make the decision about whether to meet this woman themselves , likewise they can make the decision whether to see / stay at their dads . She sounds a complete nightmare !
If you still have proof of the harassment towards you from her I would go to a solicitor about it. Explain how horrid she has been about your children and that you are worried about the after effects of her meeting them. Once a month is hardly any contact is that his choice?
I don't have dcs but if I did I would be dead set against them meeting a woman like this!
On Sept 23rd 2010 I discovered that H was having an affair. Initially he told me it was with a nurse called Sarah and he said it was stupid and it was over. He lied. He lied continually for the next year, bought three PAYG mobile phones to keep in touch with her, told her all the usual lies (we didn't have sex/I didn't understand him/only together for the kids etc) and I threw him out and took him back 5 times. Eventually found out the woman is actually called Gemma and worked with him. They lied because they are in the Air Force and its frowned upon (especially as he's her superior). We were both checked out for STD's (she was sleeping with two other men at the same time), I had to take anti-depressants, sleeping pills, lost over a stone (only a size 8/10 to start with) and had no periods for 7 months.
During that awful year the OW abused me verbally and via text message, facebook and email, until I blocked her from everything. She bought H a laptop for Christmas, broke into his email account and used that to abuse me. Only have one computer at home; youngest dc read one of the mails. Eldest dc (10 at the time) got her mobile number and text her saying "leave my daddy alone". The OW replied "Oh fuck off". H did nothing. In one particular telephone conversation i had with her i asked her if she was concerned about the damage she was doing to me and H's children. She replied "I don't give a fuck about you or your kids".
On one of the many times I accepted H back he told me that when he spoke about his children she said "oh no, not your fucking kids again....".
Eventually I had to go to the Station Commander at H's base and ask him to please tell the OW to leave me and my children alone - she had by that time; having no other way to harass me, taken to signing my email up to internet sites for sex dating, vaginal tightening and one particular one called '1000 reasons why I'm a shit mom', using log in details such as 'fatuglyoldbitch'.
That is only a brief glimpse what this dreadful woman put us through, if I listed it all we'd be here all night!
When I finally kicked him out for the last time - having found pictures that she sent him (NOT of her face. Or even just her boobs for that matter) - H was in Afghanistan waiting for her to join him, and he's never returned home. He now has a flat (paid for by the Air Force) in the same town as her flat (she is also married it seems but separated too - married for a year) and is continuing the relationship with her. She is 15 years his junior (he is 43) and they spend their time going to pubs and clubs and shopping. Oh and playing on the Xbox she bought him for Christmas! He see's his children about once a month for the day and they have been to stay with him twice. He fits them in when OW is away on detachment and/or he is in the country. Every time they see him there is enormous fallout afterwards. Youngest DC wets the bed, eldest DC is simply awful. She steals food, money, swears is abusive and really rude. She is seeing the counselor at school but her behavior is getting worse. When i asked eldest DC what happens when they are there she cried and said "mum, he is on at me all the time about how its all your fault and you drove him away, I don't know whether to believe him or not..."
Neither DC wants to have anything to do with the OW.
My question, all you wise women out there is; Do I allow this awful, morally vacuous woman to meet my children? If not, how do I prevent? And also, how do I make the DC's visits to their dad easier with less grief afterwards?
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