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Skyebluesapphire goes onwards and upwards

(1000 Posts)
imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Tue 11-Dec-12 18:56:56

New thread - link to my old thread for my own purposes.

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1548615-How-do-you-eat-an-elephant-One-bite-at-a-time

Onwards and upwards..... through Christmas and beyond..

Xales Sun 31-Mar-13 21:23:29

What TheOwl says.

So what of what he accuses you of? Don't reply, don't argue, just ignore.

This man is a liar and a failure who can't even realise it is Wednesday and time to call his DD.

How old!?! And he can't figure to save a little charge on his phone or to call her as agreed.

He is pathetic. So why care what he thinks or says about you. If he whines pathetically to anyone who actually knows or cares about you they will know who is the twat.

skyebluesapphire Sun 31-Mar-13 21:25:16

hi lemon - thanks for sharing that. It is just so hard to let go when you only have your DD's best interests at heart sad It must be very hard for you in your situation. Last night when I rang DD at bedtime, she was eating Hello Kitty pasta shapes for tea. and tonight when I rang at bedtime she was at her cousin's house and had had no tea. at 7.30pm. I don't think that is acceptable, but like you say, what can I do about it. My counsellor said that it was child neglect if he wasnt feeding her properly sad

Thanks for letting me know your story and for coming back to the thread. I thought you had gone, but am glad that you haven't. Were you one of the people who supported me upthread when I said that I didnt want to see or speak to XH? I got flamed by one person in particular, and a couple of people stepped in to say that actually they felt the same and that they never saw their XH either as that WAS in the childs best interests....

I told XH right at the start that I would not contact him, that if he wanted to know anything, he would have to ask. In mediation he then accused me of not telling him anything about DD, that I didnt tell him when she started school etc. I retorted that he could look it up on the website the same as I had to and that I wasn't responsible for his lack of interest. and because he accused me of organising his entire life, I most definitely would not be telling him anything unless he asked.

i asked what things he wanted me to tell him, he said he didnt know ..... I told him back along that I didnt want any contact other than about DD, but then there was all the shit I had with the tax credits investigation caused by him not changing his address... i have lost hundreds of pounds from the 2012 claim year because he didnt give them his figures in time. I lost my email account because it is in his name and they wont speak to me to resurrect it. I get accused of not telling him things about her, one of the points i have put in my email is - he never asks how she is getting on at school, is he in touch with them directly or does he expect me to update him.

Lyingwitch I think I have answered a couple of points above. I have thought about ringing his brother and asking him to have a word with XH and find out exactly what it is that he wants from me as if he is refusing to communicate I am not sure what to do.

I could text OW, but the temption to put you stupid fucking lying cheating horse faced two faced bitch cow on it would be too much grin grin and I don't think that would improve the situation.... His mother is a strange lady. When I told her he had walked out with no prior warning or discussion, she simply said, oh well these things happen. and then later told XBIL that it was obvious that XH wasnt happy at the family Christening, so she wasn't surprised that he left hmm. She has not rung me once in 12 months to see how we are doing.......

yes regarding the ex ex as he is known round here, it was just like finally putting that one to bed. no more bad feelings. i suppose now they are all aimed at XH instead, so there are none left for him grin and life is simply too short.

thank you both for sticking with me. i know that i argue with what you say, but I do appreciate the support and the advice. I do feel like I am in a loop sometimes, but every now and then I break out and move on a bit.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Sun 31-Mar-13 21:27:57

Skye Twunt said Sat to Mon didn't he? Grasping at straws but I don't think he'd feel bossed around if you text him around 10 am tomorrow to say you'll be home so available for DD by {insert afternoon time} onwards.

I expect you'll clock up firsts with Mini Skye too and it'll still be special with Mummy first time too. Perhaps OW didn't fancy the aquarium. It will have been for DD that's the important thing.

Maybe in 10 years you'll be on amiable terms with Twunt like your ex bf. Upsetting and impossible at first to imagine acting normally but time is a healer etc. Socially I don't see what the big deal is about talking to an ex if you have shared history and friends in common maybe that's just me.

Btw you are 41 divorced and alive and fully functioning so on some basic level I'd be amazed if you weren't drawn to men in the flesh or online. Ample opportunity to jump in with any willing partner but you have resisted so far and not shown an "any man will do to fill this Twunt shaped gap in my life" mindset. So don't feel you have to be a hermit just exercise caution when out drinking on DD free nights. I know you don't have your exH on a pedestal so you're not completely hung up on him...

Someone said a while back are you sure your counsellor is right for you? I don't know how you establish that but now LyingWitch raises the issue of not talking about Twunt in sessions. I don't have a clue but as well a need to focus on you I think you need more weapons in your armoury to cope with him.

Just to say it's been suggested you use DD as a means by which to buttonhole Twunt and seek to gain his interest/concern. It's a paradox isn't it - let him go vs do your utmost to see DD get the best she can. You can't mould him into superdad any more than you were able to keep the Nice Guy he seemed at the outset.

I think you are blessed and cursed by a strong sense of fair play and justice. It drives you demented. I think you have to strip any contact down to bare bones, do the minimum. As a mum I sympathise you want DD's childhood to be as great an experience as possible. You can slay lots of dragons Skye but I fear you have to allow a little rain to fall now and then. She might shed a few tears over her Dad but you'll be there to comfort her. Mums won't always be right there on cue to make it all better I wish. Maybe he'll step up maybe he'll muck up and disappoint. We're all human just some more feckless and selfish than others.

skyebluesapphire Sun 31-Mar-13 21:34:31

my counsellor has said herself, that we do not need to talk about him in sessions any more. But every time I go in there, she asks what has happened since last time and I say oh he didnt text so I went out with DD, then he accused me of stopping him from seeing her, blah blah blah and then it ends up being about him again.

I have tried to say to her that if she doesnt want to talk about him, then dont ask what has happened, just get right into what she wants to work on....

Xales Sun 31-Mar-13 21:41:48

Do you not think your counsellor may be waiting for the day you say 'oh he was a complete twat as usual, anyway I...' and you actually lead the conversation away from him because you finally don't care and are indifferent?

lemonstartree Sun 31-Mar-13 21:42:07

I think he point is skye that when she asks 'what has happened" you start off about HIM/texting /arrangements... Can you not see the connection?

What ELSE has happened ???

tribpot Sun 31-Mar-13 21:43:13

It's the same dynamic your relationship has always had, skye. He withdraws, you pursue because you just want a definitive answer one way or another, he pushes you and then blames you. Passive aggression 101.

I do think there is merit in looking with your counsellor at how you better deal with the burning frustration this creates, because he simply will not change. He also has no intention of making any allowances whatsoever for the difference in your personality types; that was just another part of the act that he maintained for as long as it suited him, then dropped without warning.

FWIW, I would keep your phone handy on a Wednesday in case he texts, but otherwise if you happen to see a message asking if he can call mini-skye, fine, but if you don't, you don't. As the others have said, for your own sanity you have to minimise the amount of contact between the two of you required to manage the contact with mini-skye. That does mean fixed hours - and you are right to reinforce this point by simply not being at home when he deigns to drop in at the end of another busy day earning money to chuck into his ever-increasing debt mountain. It causes no distress to mini-skye (compared to not being in when he gets back at the wrong time with her) and might eventually succeed in improving his timekeeping.

skyebluesapphire Sun 31-Mar-13 21:58:32

she always asks in connection with him though, did he turn up as arranged, etc. Then I just talk which i am very good at grin. she always lays out cards and things on the table to look at, but never gets around to it. she asks me about feelings and stuff and how i might feel in a certain situation, but it quite often ends up coming back to him, because she will ask about a time I was happy or a time I was sad. Seeing as he was involved in the last ten years of my life (previous to this past year), he is there involved in every memory be it happy or sad.

I find it quite hard talking about my feelings. she wants to know how something makes me feel inside and I just dont know what to say. I just dont get a lot of what she says. or maybe i just dont have any feelings, i dont know hmm. she might say - how do you feel when MS smiles at you. I say happy. she says no, how does it make you feel inside. I say well it doesnt. yes it makes me happy, but wants to know what it does to my body physically. I just dont get it and find it quite hard to answer her questions.

she wanted to know things that made me Happy Sad Angry Afraid. i said that I was afraid of the future and sad about the future. she said why and I said because its not what I thought it was going to be. she got quite cross and said but you still have a future its just going to be different and I said yes and thats why its sad and scary!

skyebluesapphire Sun 31-Mar-13 22:01:35

I said to the counsellor in the last session that he just doesnt get it. She said that he never will and I need to come to terms with that. he doesnt think like I do and he is never going to change.

I do know that, but like you say, it is learning how to deal with it that is the problem. I told her that it is so frustrating and that I am sick of it and I have got another X number of years of it ahead of me...

TheOwlService Sun 31-Mar-13 22:07:40

... which is probably why you need to change your way of thinking.

Who wants to be trapped in a time warp of frustration and unhappiness for X number of years?

Only you can change things as only you is suffering. Everyone else seems okay and are moving on one way or another?

lemonstartree Sun 31-Mar-13 22:18:18

Why does he need to text you to ask if he can call ? Why doe he not just call ? If you are free you answer the phone, if not you don't.... end of , No ?

And please; no "yes, but......."

lemonstartree Sun 31-Mar-13 22:36:38

*I just can't seem to win here. I keep posting about how I am not going to to send him any more emails or anything, yet I still get bashed. and when I dont tell him about stuff, I will get accused of not telling him stuff to be nasty and awkward and childish, etc etc etc. Whatever I do, it is always my fault, not his.
*

that is the nature of the internet. Most of us just do what we do. We know its not perfect, but we just do it and it doesn't occupy that much brain space... and as for not answering the door. what if you were out ? DD will not know the difference and neither will he....let him sort it out...

TheOwlService Sun 31-Mar-13 22:44:31

Go for it Skye ...... !!!!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2013/mar/30/spring-clean-your-life

skyebluesapphire Sun 31-Mar-13 22:48:35

regarding texting to call - its just something that we have fallen into. again because he wont call at a set time and he has texted when we are out, or she is halfway through tea, or its past her bedtime, so he texts to ask if she is free and I do the same when she is with him because sometimes they are out or its not convenient. I said that I would always call her at 7.15 say, and he said he would prefer it if I texted first to make sure it was ok...

so that is just what we do.

I cant wait until she is old enough to have a mobile

AutumnDreams Mon 01-Apr-13 00:41:58

Your frustration leaps out off the pages Skye, and add that to all the other stuff you have going on right now, particularly acute pain, it`s no surprise that it seems to have tipped you over the edge, I try to avoid using the word control too much, because in recent years, I feel it`s been bandied around ad infinitum, and very often out of context. Control freak in particular. Yes, there are people who feel the need to control others, but very often, in my experience, it`s just someone dealing with new changes in their life, in the most organised way they can, for the benefit of all concerned.

With regards to your Counsellor, it`s her job to always take the lead from her client, with regards to where the session needs to go. However, she will at least be hoping that by this point in the process, you will be ready to just give a brief overview of the week`s latest happenings, and then move on to explore other things. I think the constant chapter and verse of his actions, for almost a year now is you just repeating your story over and over, and stopping you from moving tentatively on.

If you stick to your guns regarding no contact other than you tell him when to collect and return Mini......and engage in nothing else, I`m sure you will soon start to feel much better, and the healing proess can begin in earnest. Because it doesn`t really seem to have done yet. I think along with frustration, you are also still struggling with acceptance, and it is manifesting itself as a form of control and attention seeking.

CleopatrasAsp Mon 01-Apr-13 01:07:21

Skye, how about you just tell him when he is going to have Mini Skye? So, for the weekend where you want her at the family do you just say: "I want her at the family do therefore I am keeping her with me that weekend. You can either swap weekends with me or not, it's up to you. If I don't hear otherwise from you I will assume that I am just having her with me for an extra weekend." That way, if he wants different arrangements he is going to have to get in touch with you and sort them out. If not, you have Mini Skye for an extra weekend! grin

I would start apply this method to all things. Tell him what is going to happen. If he doesn't like it then he can get in touch and make other arrangements! The same with telephoning MS, tell him what time to phone every night. If he doesn't phone, turn the phone off - no more of this texting at his convenience. If he loves MS and wants to talk to her then he will do whatever it takes - including phoning her at a time inconvenient to him - just to keep in touch. If he doesn't love her as much as he should then his lack will just be exposed when she is younger and it will ultimately be easier for her to deal with. What you shouldn't do is cajole or control him into contacting her or having a relationship with her. If he's a crap dad, he's a crap dad, there's nothing you can do to make that any better, it's sad but you just can't.

You have been far too reasonable and care far too much about what other people think and whether you are being 'fair'. You don't have to prove your 'fairness' to him or anyone else. He is a prick but you have to let him parent (and I use the term loosely) Mini Skye in the way he wants unless he is doing something dangerous - there is no way around this, it's something you have to accept. However, you don't have to keep proving to an invisible jury or anyone else that you are not the things he says you are. It doesn't matter if he thinks you're controlling or anything else he accuses you of, his opinion of you means diddly squat.

For what it's worth, I have been reading your threads since the first one and it is clear to me that you married waaaaay beneath you. Stop fretting over this loser, tell him what is going to happen and then just do it. As much as you are denying it you are giving him attention and it does look (to outsiders) like you want his attention too. If this isn't the case, then maybe it's time to think about completely changing the way you deal with him. From my point of view, I think you need to detach yourself from him as much as possible, give him orders and ignore any shrieking of 'unfairness' on his part. He had his chance for fairness and he blew it. Time for you to take control and do what's best for you and MS.

skyebluesapphire Mon 01-Apr-13 01:13:03

I am struggling with acceptance I know that. i keep saying that this is not the life that I wanted or expected to have. I love MS but I told Xh when he left that I would not have had a child at 36 if i had known that I would be a single mother before that child was 4 years old sad Of course I wouldnt be without her, she is the only thing that has kept me going.

regarding counselling - for example - I told her that I saw a card on the mat hand delivered with his writing on and it sent me into a tailspin and then it wasnt from him, but from his mum. The counsellor pounced on that and talked about how it made me feel and why etc , whereas I didnt want to talk about it and we ended up spending ages talking about it. I told her several weeks ago that I want to work on me, on going forward, on how can I ever trust anybody again, and so on, but she hasn't done that. I don't know how to proceed with it really. I thought that she was leading the sessions and that she would do the stuff that she sets out each week but she never does.

I really do wish that I never had to contact him ever again. I have to because of DD. i wish that he would respond to an email so that it is dealt with and then I wouldnt have to think about it until the next time I had to contact him about something essential. I suppose because of my work I am used to having to deal with things immediately. whereas XH would get a message about a collection and forget to call them back and then a week later he would ring them and be told that they had got somebody else to do it. then he would moan that he hadnt got the work and i would say well obviously they were not going to wait around forever for you to get back to them hmm.

we are very different people. the counsellor has made me see that.

tribpot Mon 01-Apr-13 08:41:34

I think you should have an honest conversation with your counsellor about why you're not getting to the stuff she has set out for the week. So maybe have a planning meeting one week rather than diving straight in.

The reason to talk about the card is because your reaction was somewhat extreme for a card in his handwriting. I think your she knows, as we do, that until you can put your feelings about him aside you will never truly heal. And learn to accept that you can't control everything that happens in your life - which seems to be at the root of your inability to accept that the future is only different, not sad or hopeless. Once mini-skye is able to exert her own influence on the direction of her life you need to be adaptable to that, too.

I also find it very frustrating not to be able to deal with actions on the spot - although to some extent that's just how it goes when you're dealing with other people, on different schedules and so on. But you don't expect an instant response from clients, so you must have different techniques for dealing with outstanding items in your business to make sure you're not hanging on a response? I will tend to do something like put an item in my to do list to contact in 2 days if not heard back, which means I can put it out of my mind until then. Wherever you can, though, you certainly should frame any email in terms of 'this is the deal, unless I hear from you', as the others have said above. It would be better if you could agree this style of communication with him in a mediation session, so he understands the rationale behind it, but if he won't come to the table, so be it.

Remember, his opinion of you, his family's opinion of you, is not relevant. If he says you're being controlling because you adopt a method of communication that is less frustrating for you, so what? He can say what he likes. You have no business commenting on his personal matters and likewise he has no business commenting on yours.

lemonstartree Mon 01-Apr-13 09:02:50

his opinion of you, his family's opinion of you, is not relevant.

so true. My XH was upset that I kicked him out, and for a short while managed to guilt/bully me into allowing him into the house. Talking to him about 'the situation' etc. I dd this because i thought I should. When I realised I didn't give a toss what he or anyone else thought of my behaviour towards him, and that I had to protect myself from his viscous personal attacks it all got a lot better. I cut all face to face contact, and refused to spek to him on the phone. I did not reply to any emails about anything except the kids. I let all divorce stuff go through my solicitor. He was not happy. My former MIL, who I liked very much dislikes me now, but hey - that's the price you pay. Make your contact work for you. He will never think, "Oh Skye is being very reasonable let me behave how she would like me too", is he ? so do it how you want and do it so it does not need an answer.

wrt 'not the life I wanted' again, do you think ANYONE who is divorced wanted that ? do you think people who have lost their jobs/homes/financial security wanted that ? Do you think people stuck in countries ravaged by civil war WANTED that? expected that ? Planned for that ?

Of course not? OK, so the loss of the future you expected is sad, but you are really very very very well off. You have your home. your business, your mum, your daughter.

Why do you think you have not metaphorically dusted yourself down, taken stock, recognised your good fortune and moved on? That is a genuine question and at the root of a lot of my frustration with your posts.

skyebluesapphire Mon 01-Apr-13 11:11:54

I don't know what I am supposed to do. Everybody says it takes time, everybody says it takes a good two years.

I don't know how to change my feelings. I can't just magically stop feeling the way I do. The hurt goes so deep. They say the harder you love, the harder you hurt and I guess that's true.

Everybody is made up differently, some people can shrug things off, some can't.

I get a lot if PMs from people saying that they know how I feel. They don't say it on here because they see the response that I am getting. So I know that what I feel is normal and I know that not everyone can get over something like this so quickly. And yes I know I'm lucky in a lot of ways but that doesn't change the fact that my partner of ten years treated me like a piece of rubbish and tossed me aside. I still can't believe that he can be so heartless.

I don't want to feel like this of course I don't but I can't help it. And going cold turkey on the anti depressants hasn't helped either.

Hiya Skye, everyone else is being wiser than I know how, but I wanted to add something: you aren't being attacked for how you feel. You feel how you feel!

I think people are trying to point out a level of denial that is stopping you move on, a free contradictions between what you say you want and what your actions cause for you.

We want you to be happy too! smile

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 01-Apr-13 11:41:30

Good morning, Skye and everyone... some really insightful posts since last night.

AutumnDreams made a fantastic point about your counsellor and I think that you might need to start being more clear about the direction of your counselling sessions if you're to continue with her, Skye.

I think your counsellor was absolutely right to 'pounce' on the envelope from your XH; from your reaction, you thought it was something that clearly demonstrated a warming of his feelings towards you and you went into a slump when you realised it wasn't. That needs working on to protect you from hereon in.

CleopatrasAsp has nailed it with her advice on exactly what you need to do to prevent this having to hang around and wait for a response from your XH. If you follow her advice on how to communicate with him in future you will have all that you need to manage the handover of MS between you without friction.

Presumably though, Skye you read that advice and then in your next post you still say that you "wish he reply... and you wish you didn't have to communicate with him". Can you not see that the tools for that are actually in your hands and you can put a stop to it right now? I can't help feeling that perhaps you don't really want to bring an end to the communication (however unsatisfactory it is) because that will close the door to ever getting him to a) respond in the way you want, b) validate you as being someone who was important to him and c) ever getting the apology that you long for. I also think that you're desperately trying to mainain a link - not for MS - but so that you're in pole position to see him get his 'comeuppance' at some point. It may NEVER come, Skye, it may be that he simply fell out of love with you without telling you and in a cowardly way, planned his 'escape'. The fact is, he didn't want to be married to you anymore.

I would be asking my counsellor to talk me through 'releasing myself from HIM'; coupled with some work on why you seek approval from people who are not 'qualified' or empowered to give it to you. You have such a need for validation and all that is doing is causing you pain... 'death by a thousand cuts' - and when you get to that thousand, you start it all over again, letting people dictate to you how you will feel. Tribpot and lemonstartree have hit the nail on the head in why they write to you here.

Do you REALLY want to get over this, Skye? I worry that you say you do but perpetuate the same behaviour, expecting a different result and being so sad when that inevitably happens. It's time to take charge because it's YOUR life and you have your daughter who will be taking her cues from you.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 01-Apr-13 11:49:54

Cross-posted with you and Blackcurrants, Skye.

I can understand why some posters write PMs to you, it's showing solidarity for your situation. There's no reason that they don't post on your thread other than that they don't want to. You seem to be so determined to say that you're getting a 'pasting' here. If you really felt that way, you wouldn't post on it yourself, you'd let it die a death. That makes me a little cross, actually.

There are plenty of posters here giving you some really good advice - not logging in with a cuppa and a biscuit just to get the next instalment of drama - but actually taking the time to give you a considered view from what you post. They care about you and I think it's beyond rude to be so dismissive and 'victim-y'.

You're a strong woman who has been through a horrible event but it's OVER. The picking-up-of-the-pieces and rebuild is the next phase. Head-patting and indulging won't get you there, Skye so forgive the blunt amongst us who clumsily say what we feel will help and understand that behind the words is genuine compassion for you and you're being willed on at every step.

skyebluesapphire Mon 01-Apr-13 12:22:23

ok. So somebody please tell me how to stop hurting, how to stop wishing that it never happened and how to stop missing someone who has turned out to be a total bastard.

I just hate him so much but sometimes all I want is a hug from him , that is never going to happen. The one person who should be there for me is the one person who caused all the pain.

Yes I want his life to go tits up. I want his friend to dump him and I want her to dump him so he can feel the pain. It might happen it might not. Nothing I can do about it.

My counsellor says every week right next week lets talk about you and moving you forward but then she never does. She now says it is good that the anti depressants are gone so that I can feel the pain that I was blocking out.

I will feel better when my Dd is home tonight, I will feel better when all the anniversaries are out the way.

The final one is 5 May. The day that we got together in 2002. And the day in 2012 when we had a fantastic day out together, had a really good laugh, walked along the beach hand in hand, ended up in bed, then 4 days later he wrote me a shitty letter telling me what a bitch i am and ending it for good.

I really don't want to sit and cry over a bastard like that. I really don't. but Easter Monday is the day he walked, again with no real discussion, just went from saying he was confused to saying he was out of here. That bastard took my child into another room on Easter Monday and told her he was going to live somewhere else and she tried to pack a bag to go with him, at just 4yo. This Easter Monday, she is with him and I miss her so much. Maybe I should have kept her with me, knowing how hard I was going to find the weekend on my own.

skyebluesapphire Mon 01-Apr-13 12:23:25

I just hate all the memories crashing in on me.

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