Trying to help my gambling husband who hid all his financial outgoings

[Snowflower01]

Well here i am four weeks later and I have established that my husband has been hiding all of his financial outgoings from me, because he had started spread-betting again. Restarted two years ago he claims. Promised in January 2010 never to do it again. This is the third time.

I wrote

[baytree]

I think you know the right answer but it is so hard because he will leave any decision to you. I feel so sorry for you. We have a gambling person in my other halves family. For him the gambling peaks when he feels miserable (eg when his grandpa died). It has been an ongoing problem all his life. His parents have shored him up for most of it. he was divorced by his first wife and is still gambling after periods of stopping. To me it seems like a form of medication-instead of drugs or alcohol to feel happier it is the chance of getting a lift from winning. So, for this reason I would encourage you to shore up your financial exposure before you break any bad news if you decide to leave him.

He hasn't acknlowedged what is behind the symptom has he? And do you have the emotional and financial resource to help him? Maybe to give you breathing space, agree a complete split of your finances rather than separation (that can come when/if you have time to think things through) and will at least secure you money wise.

[baytree]

Sorry I should have added that I think your MIL knows only too well about his problem, and that it has probably been there before he met you. If so, she owes it to you to help you have a stable life.

[Snorbs]

Oh my word. £49,000? Plus interest, plus his wages? Forty-fucking-nine fucking thousand fucking pounds!?! What a selfish, stupid wanker of a man.

When you're dealing with someone with an addiction - and acts of this colossal stupidity sure sound like an addiction to me - you have to learn to ignore what they say about what they've done or what they intend to do and, instead, pay attention to their actions. The reason being is that they lie. They lie to you, they lie to their friends, they lie to everyone. But most of all, they lie to themselves.

This is the third time he's pissed away huge sums of money, lied to your face and broken your trust. The only "improvement" each time is the amount of effort he puts in to hide what he's doing from you.

More than anything, the way he cannot even admit he's got a problem reveals volumes. From his point of view, he doesn't have a gambling problem. What he has is a "keeping Snowflower sweet" problem combined with a "shit, I got found out before I managed to win back all my losses" problem.

Is his mother going to bankroll all his gambling debts from now until the end of time? No? Then her opinion is worthless.

You ask how he can see the reality of his destruction. So far, he's not had to. So he's lost a lot of money. To a gambler, money is merely a means to an end. If you've got it, great, you can gamble with it. If you haven't, you can't. Everything else comes a very distant second place.

Plus he's lost a lot of respect from you but, frankly, you're not important enough to him for that to matter that much either. It's nothing personal against you, it's just how addicts are. And you're still there, aren't you? So you're pissed off with him. He knows that he can talk you round because he's done that twice already.

As a wide, sweeping generalisation, addicts typically stop when they have lost so much that they simply can no longer face risking losing anything more. All he's lost so far is money and it is clear that that's not enough to make him realise what a twunt he's being.

More to the point, do you really want to remain with this car-crash of a man? He's repeatedly demonstrated that he is utterly untrustworthy and an accomplished liar to boot. You'd be a fool to even consider trusting him again. If someone's put that much effort into showing you who they truly are, it's time to pay attention.

He's a millstone around your neck. He will drag you down with him. Sometimes you have to just let go.

[icclebabyjesusheave]

You are right that he has a serious gambling problem and it sounds like he is totally in denial.

Is it best for the children for you to stay with someone who could lose them the roof over their head and put them into such phenomenal financial difficulties? I really don't think it is.

Like any addict, while he doesn't admit he has a problem, you can't change him or trust him not to do it again.

You must be in real shock about this.

[FarrahFawcettsFlick]

I'm sorry, but I think your MIL is so wrong. You cannot help an addict, but you can help yourself and your children. What does she want you to do - stay and beggar yourself and her grandchildren?

To start you could try to have his wages paid into your separate account which your DH can't access. You can agree with the bank/build soc not to have any loans against the house - even having titles put in your name only. And again, on any joint accounts, restricting his access and ability to withdraw monies. Get yourself to the mortgage provider ASAP - he should not have been able to extend the mortgage or take out any loans without your signature, however you need to confirm this.

If he has any concience he would sign everything over to stop the family loosing everything. If he still wants the marriage he would relinquish all financial control. In theory, no access to money, no gambling.

For me though I would do the above and start divorce proceedings. By enacting the above you could limit any further financial fallout. By being legally separated you can limit the damage to yourself and the DCs - financially. At the moment through joint finances you and DCs are/will suffer.

Of all the types of betting FFS - spread betting! Are his spreads restricted?

[Snowflower01]

In shock, I'm not so sure. I suppose I was just waiting for it again.
When I found out the second time, he showed me his system and pleaded to continue. He told me it wasn't gambling. He just forgot to mention the gambling accounts with massive losses. He told me what i needed to hear to let him continue, I believed that he'd found a system, self taught. But I pulled the plug and made him pull out. He uses this against me. Second time, he lost £48000 from two of his friends who came in with him. They wouldn't have invested if they had known of the accounts with losses. I can't begin to calculate how much he has thrown into his gambling.
How can a man have two beautiful children and a loyal, honest wife, then gamble everything away?
He has stolen my future security. My children's home.

[Snowflower01]

FarahFawcettsFlick>>> There is no mortgage and an Experian check of my name, showed nothing apart from my few things 99%.
I believe that transferring the house into my name makes no difference, for up to five years, creditors can still come and claim the outstanding debt. Or am I wrong.?
He says/promises that I can stay in the house. His promises are worthless. What if he meets a new partner, then he'll want his share. How long can I stay? Too much chance of him u turning and me being homeless. My kids will lose the home they love.

[FarrahFawcettsFlick]

I don't know about the house transfer and creditors claims. I would have thought once he disposed of an asset (house) and you and him are legally separated that's it. I would pay for some legal advice pronto. You can call the Law Society in London (Scottish version also) and ask for a financial/family law specialist in your area.

You're right - I wouldn't trust vague promises made now. I'm not even thinking about another partner, just the ability to pay down the bet debts. Unless your H is a high earner/chunky bonuses the house would be his/your main asset.

Get a lock on all accounts this week - you don't want him trying to 'fix' the debts with more bets. I imagine he has to deposit money with the 'bookie' before playing and debts cleared either with money in account (set spread) or within time limit.

How on earth did he get into spread betting? Does he work in the city or finance related profession? I only know about s/betting because I used to work in fund management and basically s/betting is a 'contract for difference' - a financial instrument. Unless he's been around gambling for a long time and basic win/long only type bets are not doing it for him anymore.

[SnoogyWoo]

Where did the original £45k come from?

[CogitOCrapNotMoreSprouts]

You need to get professional advice on how protect yourself legally. I think you're right that just signing things over may not be enough on its own. If his creditors were to force bankruptcy you could find your home would be regarded as a marital asset and therefore still 50% his. Divorce may be the best way to legally separate your finances and walk away with enough to start fresh

[SnoogyWoo]

Bankruptcy? Am I missing something? No mortgage. £30k debt and £26k assets. You will not be made bankrupt over a £4k shortfall

[CogitOCrapNotMoreSprouts]

If I read it right he may have £22,000 credit in a gambling account but he's only paying interest on six credit cards totalling £30000. So he either can't or won't pay one off with the other. His salary has all disappeared this month, he's down £49,000 in the space of a year & his spending is clearly way beyond his income. Doesn't take long at that rate to end up severely in arrears... six months? a year? Six weeks? That's the OP's problem... she has to act quickly to protect her assets before the rug is pulled from under her feet

[paddedslippers]

I'd also urge you to get professional advice. I have gone through bankruptcy myself (for legal debts not gambling!) and we were able to stay in our home. DH and I were always careful to keep our finances separate and the house was in his name alone, since he put down the full deposit.

But - I was told that if the house had been in joint names previously, and we had only recently changed it to his sole name, the Official Receiver could have insisted that it was a joint asset. So it will not be enough to just change the names on your assets - they will go through your accounts and check if any recent changes have been made.

Sadly, unless he agrees to stop, I would agree with Cogito that divorce may be the best way to gain a recognised separation of assets. Even then, I think it may be already be an upward struggle to keep hold of the home, but it would at least minimise the impact of future debts (given your DH's and MIL's attitude, I suspect it will get worse before it gets better).

[janelikesjam]

How can you live like this OP?

How can you trust him ever again?

You can't help him.

You will get no credit or thanks from anybody (least of all him) for going down in the sinking ship with him, children and all.

You need urgent legal advice re. separation/divorce to act quickly to protect whats left of your family assets for yourself and your children.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

"My MIL wants us to stay together for the sake of the children"

No, just no. Her loyalty is primarily to her son anyway and you have given huim more than enough chances. Your could so easily lose your home because of his gambling addiction; its happened before to others. I think too that what you already know is actually not the full extent of his gambling debt.
There will be a fourth, a fifth, a sixth time too.

You cannot help him and importantly he does not want your help. You are too close to the situation to be of any real use anyway, you can only protect you.

Your H is just dragging you and by turn his children down with him into his pit. Time to now protect yourself properly from further misery by divorcing him.

[FarrahFawcettsFlick]

I've had an idea about 'controlling' or limiting his gambling for the short term. Alongside putting a stop on any accounts you could contact the s/betting providers.

As s/betting is regulated by the FSA (Financial Services Authority), when your H opened the accounts (not your average corner betting shop) he would have had to sign a disclosure document. Basically it says that he understands the nature of s/betting (the potential to have high wins and losses) and that he is not in any financial difficulty.

As H is now in financial difficulty and is an addict (?) then either you could disclose this and they could temporarily/permanently freeze his accounts pending an investigation. If they will not respond to you you could ask your H to do this. It may be worth contacting the FSA for further advice on this.

This suspension of his accounts could give you some breathing space to sort out your game plan.

[ErikNorseman]

Omg divorce. ASAP so you can get a proper financial settlement before the debts swallow up everything. Please go and get legal advice, do it today if you can. Printout or photocopy everything financial you can find. He wil ruin you and your children if you let him.

[TheSilverPussycat]

There is no system that works!!

I agree with Erik

[JuliaScurr]

www.gamanon.org.uk/

[JuliaScurr]

//rightsofwomen.org

[JuliaScurr]

Gambling like your dh is an addiction, an illness. You didn't cause it, you can't cure it, you can't control it.

Your situation is tough, but it is not hopeless. My uncle gambled awaytwo houses; my aunt left him, started divorce - but got back together, adopted my cousin, had another 40 years together before he died.

Try Gamblers Anonymous.
Good luck

[JuliaScurr]

Obviously - Uncle stopped gambling before reconciliation
Get legal advice - priority

[fiventhree]

Come on now, Slowflower, it is finally time to face up your situation.

Which is that he is not motivated to stop, he hasnt and he very probably wont.

He is an addicted.

He cares much much more about the benefit he feels that the gambling gives to him- the thrill- than its toll on you. OR the children.

An addicted dad and a stressed out mum- what use is that to a child?

Your MiL of course wants you to stay. If my son (I have a 33 year old) was like this, I would prefer that his lovely girlfriend/wife stayed with him as well, maybe.

[fiventhree]

My point being that she wants what is best for her son - as she sees it- and is therefore not best placed to advise.

And it is bad advice anyway on her part, as it is unlikely to push him in to any change at all, let alone the effects on you and the kids.