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A Sex Question......

(400 Posts)
moonblushtomato Fri 23-Nov-12 22:18:40

DH has a bee in his bonnet (or underpants) that we are not having enough sex. Just wondered what the going rate is these days?
We are in on our early 40s, have been married for nearly 8 years and have 3DCs aged 15, 6 and 4.
btw we are averaging about once a week which I'm quite happy with.

FastidiaBlueberry Sat 01-Dec-12 22:37:18

I hope you're not pretending that Parity are anything like as reliable or respected as Rape Crisis.

The stats quoted by Women's Aid are accepted and reliable - The home office listens to them, not Parity and this is not because the HO is staffed by militant feminists.

http://www.womensaid.org.uk/domestic_violence_topic.asp?section=0001000100220036&sectionTitle=Statistics

There's an explanation here http://www.womensaid.org.uk/domestic-violence-articles.asp?section=00010001002200360002&itemid=1371&itemTitle=How+reliable+are+domestic+violence+statistics%3F re whether to accept figures as being reliable or not.

If you click on the 2nd PDF, the figure that screams out regarding people subjected to 4+ attacks (IE not one-offs, "out of character" mistakes, self-defence, etc., but ongoing unambiguous violence), 89% are women and 11% are men. The reason WA uses this figure and the reason government agencies accept it, is because it is replicable, reliable and properly researched. Unlike the figures bandied about by MRA's, which are deeply shit tbh and any statistician who is just a neutral well-meaning mathematician will tell you that.

I simply cannot imagine why you want to argue that DV is not a gendered issue. It's like arguing that rape isn't a gendered issue. Just because it can (and does) happen to men, doesn't mean that makes it not gendered, anymore than arguing that racism isn't a race issue because sometimes black people are rude to white people. Why would you want to do that? What's the point of pretending that women are as violent as men, when time after time, research shows us that that is simply not true? I can understand that you feel very strongly that men being victims of DV should not be underplayed or denied and I agree with you; but pretending that women and men are equally likely to be perpetrators and victims, is just dishonest and doesn't help male victims of DV.

OneMoreChap Sun 02-Dec-12 13:01:27

Actually, it's on Mumsnet that I learned I'd suffered DV.
I'm actually on record as being incredulous about the new Home Office guidelines which included EA into DV.

The male reporting levels are increasing, as it is becoming recognised as an issue so...

The British Crime Survey figues were quoted by Parity - not made up by them - and as I indicated, the links I got them from included Rape Crisis - who recognise the issue. So, kindly FOTTOSOFAFOSM

FastidiaBlueberry Sun 02-Dec-12 13:02:53

You still haven't explained why you are so determined to pretend that DV is not a gendered issue.

It is.

AnyFuckerForAMincePie Sun 02-Dec-12 17:26:00

omc do you campaign on the subject of female violence on men elsewhere, than just on this female dominated chat forum ?

OMC

"_ A does not reasonably believe that B consents"

A sleeping person cannot give consent.

A man who waits for his partner to fall asleep before penetrating her (knowing that she objects to this behaviour) cannot have a reasonable belief that she consents

(leaving aside the issue of how one can hold a reasonable belief that an unconscious person gives consent).

Therefore
- no consent
- no resonable belief that consent has been given

= rape

cronullansw Sun 02-Dec-12 18:33:50

My apologies to all, esp AF and OMC. When I said 'rapists bastards' I absolutely was not, and never will, condone rape.

I used the phrase poorly, I was referring to the MilFem stance that all men are (potential) rapists - a stance that I disagree with.

As for the statistics being bandied about, there is obv room for further debate on this topic. When reputable bodies are stating there is a surprisingly high number of male victims, using figures taken from Womens Aid to support Fastidias argument is a little odd, as not many blokes would (a) report their suffering and (b) if they did, it wouldn't be to a womens support group.

Offred Sun 02-Dec-12 18:34:22

In the rest of the cps guidelines penetration whilst sleeping is listed as considered to be always without consent IIRC.

FastidiaBlueberry Sun 02-Dec-12 18:49:39

cronulla, WA figures are not their own, they're taken from British Crime Survey etc., so they would have figures for male victims as well.

I don't understand your point about MilFem (what's that? Mother in Law feminists?) confused thinking all men are potential rapists.

I suppose on one hand you could say all men are potential rapists in the same way you can say that all people are potential murderers or potentially violent - none of us know what we're capable of until tested. The potential is there for everyone to be anything in that sense, so I'm not sure it means much to say all men are potential rapists, anymore than it means much to say all people are potential killers.

But in the main, it tends to be non-feminists who think all men are rapists - the ones who say that all a woman has to do is get drunk or flirt a bit or wear a mini-skirt and suddenly a previously unrapey, reasonable man will turn into a rapist. Feminists don't accept that: they think most men aren't rapists and women getting drunk, falling asleep, flirting or wearing sexy clothes won't make them into one. Men rape women because they are rapists, not because a woman's wearing a mini skirt or high heels or whatever.

AnyFuckerForAMincePie Sun 02-Dec-12 19:46:04

cronulla, thank you for your apology

but really, "MilFems" (I presume you mean "militant" in a derogatory way, like "You're one of those MillieTant hairylegged, dungaree wearers who hate men aren't you..") do not believe that all men are potential rapists

only rapists rape people

pennymixup Sun 02-Dec-12 20:21:06

Fastidia blueberry my research was based on lots of blokes actually. You lot seem to live in the dark ages when men sat around while their women did all the housework... I don't know anyone like that now, family, friends etc
Don't buy the more housework, more sex myth really

FastidiaBlueberry Sun 02-Dec-12 21:12:16

Really pennymixup?

You've done lots of peer-reviewed studies have you?

How fascinating, can you link to them? Where did you have them published?

FastidiaBlueberry Sun 02-Dec-12 21:15:09

Oh I didn't clock the Militant thing, of course.

I was confusing myself with MIL threads. grin

FastidiaBlueberry Sun 02-Dec-12 21:18:18

penny, you do understand that "research" doesn't mean "a few blokes I know" don't you?

For example, I don't know anyone who votes tory.*

My research concludes that the government ought to be made up of loads of radical, liberal and socialist feminists along with an assortment of Marxists, anarchists and socialists.

And yet, astonishingly, there appears to be a tory government.

I conclude that my research methodology might be faulty.

*Oh all right, I do know a few, but they're harmless really...

AnyFuckerForAMincePie Sun 02-Dec-12 21:22:36

penny is also to be found on other threads doing a bit of the ole shit stirring

FastidiaBlueberry Sun 02-Dec-12 21:24:19

Ah, saynomore... <taps nose>

AnyFuckerForAMincePie Sun 02-Dec-12 21:25:49

it's a legitimate pastime for some people < shrugs >

FastidiaBlueberry Sun 02-Dec-12 21:29:15

Don't they have a TV? Books? Etchings?

grin

AnyFuckerForAMincePie Sun 02-Dec-12 21:29:51

the XBox must be broke

pennymixup Sun 02-Dec-12 23:36:43

Never touch an Xbox and am not shit stirring just trying to get you to lighten up and not be so narrow minded about things. Every time someone posts about DHs not having enough sex etc you always come out with the same old line about him not doing enough around the house

pennymixup Sun 02-Dec-12 23:37:09

brokeN
AF

AnyFuckerForAMincePie Sun 02-Dec-12 23:38:00

Am light as a feather, meee

pennymixup Sun 02-Dec-12 23:42:16

perhaps they have sex at the same time as doing the housework....

differentnameforthis Mon 03-Dec-12 08:25:39

But in the main, it tends to be non-feminists who think all men are rapists - the ones who say that all a woman has to do is get drunk or flirt a bit or wear a mini-skirt and suddenly a previously unrapey, reasonable man will turn into a rapist. Feminists don't accept that: they think most men aren't rapists

See, in my experience of feminists & non, it is usually the feminists that believe all men are rapists. I know many feminists & they will argue with me & the non feminists among us (me being one) that all men rape.

suckmycockiness Mon 03-Dec-12 12:30:47

"pennymixup Sun 02-Dec-12 20:21:06
Fastidia blueberry my research was based on lots of blokes actually. You lot seem to live in the dark ages when men sat around while their women did all the housework... I don't know anyone like that now, family, friends etc
Don't buy the more housework, more sex myth really"

Sorry penny but I really disagree with your last sentence above. I think you need to take a wider view of the idea that men who do more housework have better and more frequent sex with their wives. It's about contributing more to a life you have built together and also respecting a partner enough to realise that she is not there to cook, clean, look after the kids (which is a full time job) and then give you the best shag of your life in bed too. It's about realising that you are not ENTITLED to sex, that both have to WANT sex. In a healthy relationship one partner does not get to contribute unequally to a relationship and only enjoy all the good bits: sex, affection, being pampered, dinner served up, clean house, well balanced kids...

I think other people on here who "spout the same old nonsense" when asking questions such as "does your DH help around the house?", "why is he not tired when you are?" are actually showing that it could just be a trivial issue such as the OP's DH not realising that she does so much around the house, outside etc, and he does not really have an equal share in such duties, and therefore she is tired, and does not have the energy for sex. And I speak from experience. I don't think that they are trying to make the OP's husband sound useless. A lot of men, yes, even in this day and age see certain tasks as only for women to do, and a lot of women are guilty of the same gender stereotypes.

And spoonyfucker I really liked your long post about making sex a priority being beneficial for your relationship. Hit the nail on the head for my relationship very much, but my DH has also had to take into account how I always did the lion's share of domestic work and childcare, after a 9-5 day at college, while he after a 9-5 day at work would just crash out the sofa energised for a night of sex!!! So, we've sorted out the issue of equal contributing to our household, and now we are working on focusing on each other more romantically. Sometimes, the housework just does not get done, and we will chill out with a glass of wine and off to bed for a night of romance instead of going to bed tired. Other times I have to say "Which one would you like to do - washing up or making the salad? Putting our daughter to bed or ...?" etc. Before it would be me doing everything, and then crashing out to bed tired and him disappointed with no affection or sex.

Obviously people can have much greater problems when it comes to their sex lives but in a normal, healthy relationship it's perfectly valid to as if the OP's husband contributes equally round the house. And I actually think that it is very positive that those were some of the first posts in response to the OP.

spoonyfucker Tue 11-Dec-12 09:03:01

suckmycockiness - thank you for your kind words.

It seems that good sex in mature marriages is not, or not just, the end result of good deeds by one partner for the other. Sure, it can't flourish where there is uneven lack of effort in day to day stuff and there is resentment, but the key seems to be to recognise sex as a source from which renewed goodwill and enthusiasm can flow. It took us about 15 years to "get" that.

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