Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide, which can point you to expert advice and support.
ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
angry and not sure whether I'm being heartless(93 Posts)
My dh has had a really crap year or so with employment. He's on his third job in the last year. The first one he packed in because it was cold calling and he gets quite phobic about having to ring people so he more or less decided he was unable to do it (it wasn't advertised as cold calling). He then worked for a retail company and got sacked during his probationary period after a lot of problems - he said he didn't receive any proper training and the others seemed to deliberately exclude him and he felt they bullied him. Now he has a new job which he's had for the last 6 months or so and the same thing is happening again.
He is a manager and his main problem is that he seems to try to get on with everyone and gets very hurt and upset that they don't include him but I have explained that as a manager they are likely to make him separate as that is the nature of being a boss... he did something a bit stupid and ended up being late for a big meeting because he got on the wrong train with two employees. He knew he was on the wrong train but went along with it because the others wanted to be late. He then received a disciplinary for this.
Yesterday he remembered he'd made another silly mistake at work so he rang and owned up to it. His manager told him to email the area manager explaining it which he has done. He has not heard anything back and isn't likely to till his appraisal intw/o weeks. He is now in a deep depression convinced he is worthless and about to get sacked again.
I have sympathy for him. Of course I do. I am on maternity leave and we have a ds 4 months and also dd aged 9 from my previous relationship. I was a single mum for several years befo're I met dh.
But I'm also if I'm honest quite annoyed he seems to have this "I'm worthless" depressive attitude ... but will not take medication or talk to anyone. I have had severe depression myself so I do try to understand.
If he loses his job I could return to work so we wouldn't lose the house. Our mortgage is very small so we could manage. It is a pride thing with my husband. He thinks no one likes him.
Meanwhile I am knackered... ds has just started to
Sleep through till 6am everyday but today was dh turn to get up with him as I do it everyday and he woke up in a terrible mood saying he'd had two hours sleep worrying about work so I said I'd get up again... as I do every bloody day.
I'm also struggling with things with my mum and my hair is falling out !! Long stories. I feel so tired and stressed and worried about my dh and his job etc.
Can I ask what management training he has had? I think he needs to understand that it's not personal and perfectly natural that he won't be included in social stuff.
And this links into the train journey - that's bizarre that he said nothing. He's not there to impress his colleagues but to do a job and should have addressed the situation as soon as he realised the mistake.
What was the other 'silly mistake'?
If he wants to stay in this role I would suggest he asks to go on a management/leadership development role in his appraisal.
Thanks. He's had no training other than general on the job stuff. It's not a well salaried job.. think retail management. I keep explaining it's not personal but he is adamant that it is. He seems to have a bit of a persecution complex in my opinion.
I can't go into too much detail about the other mistake as it will out me but basically he told a junior member of staff to put some stock out when it shouldn't have been on the shelves until Monday. He should have checked. He has been so stressed hes making some mistakes basically.
I can see that he isn't in their good books but I'm not sure it's to the point of no return. I also think he is taking it too personally. He has us and our family to worry about but he seems more bothered about what a lot of idiots at work think about him !
He's not cut out to manage staff while he is so childish and pettish about wanting to be liked.
To have got himself in trouble at work when he has a baby to support, so he could impress people he is meant to be managing, is beyond pathetic.
If he hadn't chosen to do that the second, genuine, mistake wouldn't be worth worrying about.
He really needs to up his game or he will get fired again.
And he needs to up his game at home. He should have given you your rest this morning regardless of how much sleep he managed to get.
It's not your fault he's upset that his staff don't think he's cool.
Maybe get him to watch The Office and explain to him that he is David Brent.
I would be furious if I had to go back to work after 4 months because my husband couldn't hold down a job due to incompetence.
Sorry I've just re-read that he's on a disciplinary! He really needs to have a long hard think about this or he's about to get fired again.
Completely agree with athing. It's beyond belief that he's ready to lose his job just to be seen to be one of the gang.
Was this the pattern in other jobs? Could he ask for a new job in the same company where he is just part of a team instead of the manager?
It's not really training that's the problem here, it's his judgement and confidence. Trying to be everyone's mate when you're in a supervisory role means you can end up being treated with contempt... he shouldn't have to be told that. Deliberately making himself late because he wanted to be chummy is just stupidity. Everyone makes mistakes in a new job but getting depressed about the appraisal and feeling sorry for himself won't change the outcome. Rolling his sleeves up at work and trying to do a better job in the meantime might help his managers see him differently.
I don't think you're being heartless, really.
Thank you for the replies.
It all started really when two people at work started being horrible to him andhe felt bullied and then he tried to stand up to them but they were the popular ones at work and he ended up being hated. Then they all seemed to be friends again tillthe train incident and he didn't want it all to kick off again so he stupidly went along with it. All 3 of them were taken into the office and told off. He was also told off as being their manager he should have disciplined them himself. I did say to him at the time he should not have gone with them. He didn't listen to me and didn't think they would get caught out but the manager checked the trains.
Yes it was stupid. And yes I m very angry and I didn't even want to go back to work let alone go back early. I'm very upset. But I feel I don't have a choice. I feel he has taken my choices away from me.
I am sitting here doing everything this morning and he is still in bed !!
He's not normally like this but all this has dragged him down.
When did I become a doormat.
He's the one dragging you down.
Staying in his pit of self-pity while you do all the work seems about right.
I agree with what's been said above. He either needs some management training and a change of attitude or he needs to get a different type of job altogether or a retail post where he is not managing staff.
Meantime, go and get him out of bed! He's had a massive lie in already, tell him to take over from you while you go back to bed and rest.
So what do I do ? Do I drag him out of bed and have a go at him ... or do I do the softly approach and bring him a tea and a cuddle and tell him it will all be ok ? (Which is what I did yesterday.. he was in tears on and off hiding in the kitchen).
We are supposed to be going out later as my mum has offered to babysit. Not sure I feel like it now to be honest.
He has been trying very hard at work now but he feels like they've made up their mind they don't like him and want him out.
He is looking for other jobs and now realises he doesn't want to manage.
Neither. There's nothing you can do about work at the moment, he needs to get on with job at hand - looking after DS and giving you a break. Take DS in to him, tell him to take over and that you're having a break now. He's to get out of bed and you are getting in.
Do what Hellon advises.
He's spent quite enough time on his self-created drama at work.
Does he understand that if they want him out it's because ge has done a bad job?
His self-pity is entirely misplaced.
He should feel sorry for the victims of his stupidity (you and his son), not himself.
I don't really care for this expression, but frankly he needs to man the fuck up. He has a baby and a partner, he can't keep risking jobs over peer pressure for gods sake.
I would still take your mum up on the offer of babysitting this afternoon and spend some time together out of the house to come up with a realistic plan for the future.
He seems to chop and change jobs/what he does and doesn't want to do very quickly though.
FGS you don't go to work to be popular. How old is he? 12?
Managers are not there to be liked or make friends FGS. They are there to manage. This by implication means that sometimes you will be unpopular. The thing to work on is earning respect from your team so that when you make an unpopular decision it is respected.
I agree with everyone's comments but want to add that he clearly is lacking in confidence & perhaps CBT would help?
He needs to learn about making the right decision rather than what he thinks will help make his work life more comfortable and he seems so tied up in his own head ATM that he can't look at his job & its priorities objectively.
So this is the third job this year that he wants to leave because he isn't liked? So why don't people like him? You know him, is he unlikeable? Irritating? Rude? There must be something. Or it's a defeatist, miserable attitude that is becoming a self fulfilling prophecy. Either way, he cannot continue like this, it's not fair on you at all.
Well obviously I like him ... but he can be temperamental and very sensitive to the point where he thinks someone is having a go at him when in actual fact it might be absolutely nothing to do with him and they're just having a rubbish day.
My mum hasn't warmed to him but that is a whole nother issue as basically my mum has always been quite controlling and until I met dh I had always lived with her. We then brought her out of her share of the house I jointly owned with her. So now she is living alone and blames him for that. But actually I couldn't live with her anymore and wanted to live alone anyway. Dh was just a catalyst.
One of the issues with my mum is she has 3 small but unruly dogs and I didn't want our new baby to be around them. Mum doesn't control them and although they have never ever been aggressive they are very jumpy and she does not discipline them at all. This is one of the current arguments I'm having with her. I will not bring the baby to her house (she babysits at ours) and she think I am being unreasonable.
Anyway I digress.
I do think dh has been very stupid. He knows that now and is trying to get his head down and prove himself.
I still feel like he doesn't or isn't pulling his weight at home with me this weekend though as he feels work stress gives him the upper hand.
In the end hegot out of bed before I could go to him and he watched ds while I had some breakfast. He is now in the shower. I have agreed mum to come and babysit and part of me just wants to tell all of them to fuck off and go away with the babies on my own.
I feel and look hideous. I haven't had a break for more than 20 min baby naps all week and I'm near to breaking point.
To top it off dh mentioned he'd completed one of his Xbox games last night.... so he wasn't up in the pits of despair. He was up late playing a game.
If I challenge him on it he will say I'm being horrible.
Yeah, he's really not managerial material. not everyone is. It's good he's looking for other work. you can't be mates with people you manage. And you can't be motivated by a need to make them like you. They don't have to like you (although it's good if they do!) they just have to respect you. and displaying a clear neediness be my friend be my friend be my friend will result in them having zero respect for you. And once that's gone - you can't get it back.
He sounds like a child, tbh. everyone's got to like me, i'll do what everyone's doing, stay up playing silly kids computer games, act like a sullen teenager when expected to take responsibility in the home... He honestly sounds like what he needs to do is to simply grow up. all the things you mention tie up into one neat little bundle - he's childish.
He needs to grow his confidence and be more mature too.
"If I challenge him on it he will say I'm being horrible."
Wow, he really is a self-pitying twat, isn't he?
He gets to stay up all night playing computer games, deny you your agreed lie in, and then whine about how mean you are if you tell him he's being a lazy shite?
Why do you let him carry on like a petulant 13 year old?
If he says you're being horrible tell him that what's really horrible is a grown man using his uselessness at work as an excuse for being useless at home.
He really sounds like a complete loser.
Sounds like he catastrophises and has a lot of unhealthy thought patterns, black and white thinking and hyper-sensitivity. He might benefit from CBT.
I think you need to insist he seeks help with his depression, as he is dragging you and your little family into his misery and it's affecting his ability to work.
If he continues like this, you'll build up a massive amount of resentment and it'll kill your relationship stone dead. He needs to fix himself.
Bloody hell - he really does need to grow the fuck up. He's a FATHER not a carefree teenager. Is there anyone who would give him a damn good talking to that he would listen to?? Father/Uncle/Older Friend? CBT would probably be worth a shot too (as someone else mentioned) and a visit to the Dr to check out the depression.
It needs ACTION this cannot continue.
He has been an idiot but being horrible to him will not help - it will just feed his self loathing. Get him to the doctor for some sort of counselling OP. Could he return to a non managerial role somewhere and you work part time? He doesn't sound capable of managing people in this state if mind. Poor you
Join the discussion
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Register now
Already registered with Mumsnet? Log in to leave your comment or alternatively, sign in with Facebook or Google.
Please login first.