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He's just been to a nude lap dancing bar :((366 Posts)
H just back from nude lap dancing bar, he has been on stag dos before and he knows I hate it. I'm gutted, he says I should forget this one "mistake" as he (allegedly) didn't has a private dance as he knows I would hate that. He claims he was just curious (inspite having been before and knowing all about it!!) Being in front of a naked woman that isnt me, for kicks just feels like cheating on some level. Oh and he wasn't on a stag tonight just out with a friend.
Found out as I Where's My Iphone'd him as he was meant to just be in our town, and I thought he'd be heading home.
We're meant to be going away on a romantic break in a few weeks, but a the minute I don't want him near me
How would u deal with this?
Its a deal breaker for me and the reason my exdh and I divorced. Been with my DH for 17 years now but if I found out he had gone to a place like that, I would not hesitate to leave.
For me it speaks volumes about his view on woman and how his need for sexual gratification, overrides any moral fibre he may have. But thats just me.
I have and there are two strands to the anti-lapdancing argument:
1/ It is infidelity. I think that I have dealt with that one.
2/ You are participating in an exploitative industry where you do not know for a fact that the girls are both overage and there voluntarily.
With regard to the second argument, I would say that you can formulate a good idea of both and, in addition, in just about every "product" we consume (and many "products" such as restaurants involve live human beings) we cannot be sure that no exploitation has taken place. In fact, in a lot of products made in the far east, it is a fair bet that people were expolited in their fabrication.
So, I have assessed the arguments and still believe that they are setting the bar way too high unless people don't eat meat (slaughterhouses are demeaning to both the animals and the humans working there), never buy a product made in the far east etc. Most are us are actually, as you would put it, human beings, and therefore fallible. A lapdancing club may not be any man's finest hour on this earth but, on the other hand, it is hardly the most terrible sin, either.
So it does not matter if one think its ok to have warped views, abuse women bodies, disrespect their wife and family if you are in a long marriage with children?
what a load of crock.
Seriously larry you have neither listened to nor assessed my argument and your argument seems to be the equivalent of my seven year old; "I want a ds" "what for?" "I don't know" "no then" "but everyone in school has one."
Everyone in school has a son?! Yep, our 3 year old's stock answer is "not sure" or "because I like it".
However, I have dealt with the arguments and I even agree that maybe, in a highly developed society, we should not have lap dancing bars. Yes, it is a chicken and egg situation but, to go back to someone's analogy of slavery, the best way to deal with it was to fight to change people's views and then enact legislation. Anyone of a certain class who refused to marry a man with a slave at a certain point in history would have had a very limited choice of men.
For clarity my argument is;
I am an individual who deserves respect and the right to set my own boundaries within my relationships and to make my own decisions about who I have what kind of relationship with.
The sex industry actually damages society and the individuals involved in it and I personally do not want my children to be raised to believe it is in any way acceptable for a variety of reasons including the importance of consent, bodily autonomy, respect for another's equality in sexual experiences, the rejection of the objectification of women, rejection of the idea of the superiority of men etc
I especially don't want my children to be raised to do what everyone else does without thinking about the consequences for themselves... Totally idiotic that would be...
It is not a low bar, it is a high bar precisely because people seem to have this idea of it being harmless or what everyone does so objecting to it is difficult. It is not unreasonable to expect that I can find a relationship with someone who agrees with this and it isn't unreasonable to expect that I should be able to leave that relationship if this very important boundary is crossed.
It does not equate or relate to infidelity which I don't see as damaging in the same way necessarily (dependent on circs).
No a Nintendo ds - does it matter?
This entire convo doesn't really "matter". Few things do, ultimately especially on the internet. I was just curious.
Why does a woman need a man so badly she has to set her bar low enough to tolerate men who abuse other humans?
You don't even make any sense. You say we should change people's opinions but also women should STFU about men going to lap dancing bars because everyone does it and women should have their standards set by society not by their own values.
I don't think the strip club is the issue, it's that he did something that he knew you would hate. Have you explained clearly and rationally why you dislike them - I mean had a discourse about how you feel it shows a disrespect for women to view them as a commodity and the downside of the sex industry, or was it just a "I'd hate it if you went to one of those places"?
If it was the former, then I think it is a potential deal breaker, unless he has given opposing and rational thoughts on why he thinks that lap dance clubs are actually okay. If it's just the latter then he may not have truly understood how deeply offended you would be by him visiting such a place.
As an aside, for me it would not be a deal breaker, I've been to clubs and chatted to the dancers. I do know that it is an incredibly expensive evening though.
She doesn't "need" a man at all but she chose to be with one and raise children with them. Your idea of "abuse" is highly questionable, especially by the many willing employees of lap dancing bars. However, you will argue that they are the handmaidens of the patriarchy and need to wake up. This is where your and my ideas of independent human beings with independent thoughts and rights are going to be antithetical.
I agree it's not the issue. However I take issue with Larry saying that women should not be allowed to find it an important issue. Or men for that matter. That's why it's important because Larry is effectively saying STFU because you shouldn't see it as important on a thread where this wasn't the issue.
Only if you continue telling me what it is I think larry.
I don't agree that it is a "legitimate activity" at all.
Some people might, but I really wouldn't want anyone who gets off on that kind of atmosphere in my life.
He claims he was just curious (inspite having been before and knowing all about it!!)
Well, that's laughable isn't it!
You obviously don't trust him, OP - rghtly so by the sound of it. You aren't happy about it, and I don't blame you. It would certainly be the end for me. I couldn't love someone I had lost all respect for.
What's wrong then with choosing to limit your choice of men by standing by your personal beliefs which may go against the grain? You said that was the point that women wouldn't find a man to marry. Also in this thread the op's feelings about lap dancing are well established and known by her OH, he has chosen to disrespect her. Also think having children with someone is not a reason to stay with someone who disrespects you.
Well said Offred and kudos to you - I can't be bothered with these trolls who patrol this topic with their attention-seeking interventions.
I have been in a similar situation and I was devastated. My ex was incredibly cruel about the whole thing and I would not go out with a man now who went to strip clubs.
One thing that gets me is why some women are ok with their partners doing it. Yet if they were to wait in the bedroom while their husband had a woman round on a Saturday night to take her clothes off and rub herself naked on his crotch and stick her crotch in his face, I don't think they'd be too happy.
Yet because it's on the high street, and money changes hands for it, somehow it's ok.
I would make it very clear now to any man that I go out with that I wouldn't put up with it now. I respect a man much more for saying that he doesn't want to go in one than just going along with the crowd and not wanting to treat women like objects.
Because they have both already chosen one another and invested time, emotion, money etc etc into the relationship. Because I am sure that he does not believe that he is disrespecting her; it is not for her alone to define "disrespect" (or the sample on MN who participate in these threads). Because, even if you feel this is one incident of disrespect, one infraction should not lead to splitting a family up with all the consequences to the children.
I think you are misunderstanding what disrespect is now larry. Disrespect for the relationship and your partner is not necessarily going to the lap dancing club it is continuing in a relationship with someone who is opposed to them and going to them anyway.
larrygrylls it's one thing to be aware of exploitation in terms of buying products that are possibly made in sweatshops in the far east etc.
It is a whole other level to pay to watch people being exploited.
I buy my kids cheap trainers, however, I would not enjoy paying to watch those trainers being made by child slaves.
YOU like lapdancing clubs. You are trying to justify this but failing because your arguments and analogies are all over the place.
I am very pleased that my "bar" is too high for you to get over
Anyway, back to the OP he knows I hate it
He knows you hate it, he still went, willingly. That is very disrespectful. No matter where your "bar" is in terms of specific behaviours if my DP chose to do something know that I would hate it and be hurt by it = dealbreaker
Wanting a partner who doesn't see the exploitation and objectification of women as a harmless and fun night out is not setting the dealbreaker bar particularly low IMO (or high - I'm a bit confused now ).
My 'dealbreaker' bar is always in the same place, it's just that with a casual relationship, breaking the deal is a whole lot less painful and complicated.
This limits my choice of men in the same way that removing all the rotten apples from a barrel limits my choice of apples
You don't get to determine where other people's boundaries should be larry.
Many men know their wives/partners won't like it but go anyway and lie to them about what goes on. This is what my ex did and what several of my old colleagues did frequently. They think of it as their right to go and, because strip clubs are so normalised now, it's hard to argue against them.
After it happened to me, I got involved with campaigning against them in my city. I didn't want another woman to go through what I went through. I want to see strip clubs become something that's not as normal as going to the cinema on a Saturday night.
One friend of mine went on a stag do not long after his wife had a baby. She had gained a lot of weight during the pregnancy. When I asked if she knew he'd been (because he was so matter of fact about it) he said "do I look like I've got "stupid" written on my forehead?"
I had a terrible time with my ex and don't even want to relive the conversations we had because he was such a bastard about it all (he was abusive anyway and it gave him another way to exert some control over me).
So never again!
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