Anyone else with elderly parents who can help?

[TheAgedPs]

I've just returned from a few days with my parents- mid 80s- who live 4 hrs drive away. I have not lived with them for 35 years but see them roughly 3-4 times a year.

Every time I come away I feel mixed emotions and wonder if I need to talk to one or either of them- or let it be.

I'm off loading really so please excuse the ramblings.

I find the visits very stressful, mainly because of my mum's behaviour. She is overly anxious about everything and her whole face is contorted in worry all the time- about everything and everyone. This is one reason I left home as soon as I could because she was smothering. My dad has coped with her by detaching himself and spends a lot of time in the shed and being anti social. 10 years ago they almost divorced as she was sick of his behaviour- he cooks for himself, does most of his own washing and they sleep in separate rooms.

However, things changed a while back when he had a minor stroke and so did she. She now hen pecks him more than ever, but treats him like a child- in front of me and DH. When we were there, she told him "Not be behave so silly" - he was not eating his dinner ( a salad made by him) at the time she thought he should be, and would find it hard to sleep according to her. The reason for this was he was having a conversation with me and DH about some old photos and old haunts.

Everything he says or does, she criticises- she tut-tuts around him, gives him looks to kill, and disagress with anything he says.

When we were leaving yesterday we went to find him in the shed and she told him off in front of us again "You should not be working on that ( the lawn mower)- it's too hot for you tobe outside,"

Now that my dad has had a slight stroke his speech and thought processes are slower- but they still manage to keep a 1 acre garden going with a bit of help from my brother- and my dad still drives locally, so that are not totally ga-ga. Dad is a highly intelligent man with a degree, and I hate to see her treat him like this.

I think she is full of anger over their marriage- but at the same time wrapping him in cotton wool, to spin out his life.

I know that I can't meddle with their marriage, but I just hate being there- yet know that aged 86 their days are numbered. I still want to have "that" conversation with them both about how I am grateful for them for being good parents, but every visit seems marrred by their squabblings, my dad keeping out of the way, and me and DH just going out to do our own thing.
Even my son- now an adult- notices, and said that after he had spent a day with them he couldn't stand it due to my mum's nagging of my dad.

I don't know what to do rally- talk to her, talk to my dad, write her a letter, saying their behaviour is pushing me away, or what.

[beachyhead]

I think at 86 you just have to leave it... The only reason you want to write the letter or talk to them is for you to get it off your chest....

He knows she hen pecks, she knows she fusses him, they've both had strokes and are managing very well with each other..

I can't see what you are hoping to achieve.

Just be a loving daughter and support as much as you can, and don't let their last few years be overshadowed by you picking holes in their arrangements...

[7to25]

I agree
it seems horrible to you, but if she died tomorrow he would probably be bereft and give anything to have her nagging at him and fussing over him.

[TheAgedPs]

Thanks beachy- I suppose all I was hoping to achieve was that my mum would tone it down when they have family there to stay- it's unpleasant and belittles my dad. In the past he would have fought back, but now due to his health he just can't be bothered- but evidently explodes in anger now and then and I think he allows it to build up.

I suppose what I am also saying is that it is always a bit of an effort for us to go- we both work, have busy lives, DH takes holiday so we can have a few days there- and it's not restful, you feel as if you are walking on eggshells around them.

[monal]

Oh god, are you me? I am trying to learn to just detach myself from it, but it's impossible very hard. I don't think they'll change. Part of my mum's problem is she's been trying to change my dad for 40-odd years, and that hasn't worked. And even though they make each other's lives miserable, if they separated now my dad just wouldn't eat and my mum would sink into total depressed alcoholism. So I think when you're there all you can do is try and ignore and deflect it as best you can.

[HeathRobinson]

I think it's unfair to just blame your mum. How do you know, really, that her behaviour is not a reaction to him being anti-social and pulling away from her etc?
How do you know that later, when you're not there, that your dad isn't moaning about eating late and asking your mum why she didn't remind him to eat earlier?

Why not take their favourite treats and a nice card on your next visit and tell them how much they mean to you? You'll probably have to do it in the middle of their fussing but that's their marriage and presumably as they've stayed together, it's good enough for them.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

I think, once they get to that age, you have to act like the parent and treat them like the child. If she's getting tetchy with him all the time, talk to her the way you'd talk to kids doing the same thing. 'That wasn't a nice thing to say'... etc. My parents have a similarly bad-tempered relationship and I know exactly what you mean about visits not being relaxing. However, I took the lead from my DS in the end. He was aged about 7, we were there one day, and they were sniping at each other about something and nothing as usual. 'Oh for goodness sake' he said impatiently ... 'would you stop with the arguing? I'm trying to eat my breakfast here!' There was some huffing about 'cheeky children' but I pointed out that he was quite right & they were spoiling everyone's breakfast. :) That got the ball rolling and now I don't hang back.

[longingforsomesleep]

No advice I'm afraid, but loads of sympathy. There was always a lot of friction between my parents and I guess my mum henpecked my dad. But since he died a year ago she has been completely bereft without him. My dad was 87 when he died and my mum is 89. They were 5 hours drive away from me and, as you know, the problem with that sort of distance is you can't visit for a couple of hours and then leave when you've had enough. Being immersed in that sort of environment for a few days at a time does tend to drive you round the bend!

Sadly, I think your parents are too old to change. My mum is now living very close to my sister so she is looked after. However, her situation is SO awful - she is frail, in pain, has had to move from a place she loved, she knows death is just around the corner and she is completely lost without the person she was married to for 67 years. They were never soul mates and my sister and I often used to wonder how they ended up together. But they obviously loved each other. Mum also has lots of annoying habits and is very opinionated. I try to visit regularly to give my sister a break but she is still 4 hours drive away so still not within 'popping in distance'. The only way I can cope with her irritating behaviour and the distress of what her life has become is to try and switch off a bit. And perhaps that's what you need to do - develop a bit of a shell to protect yourself from the pain of visiting your parents. If there's nothing you can do to change things you will just have to be pragmatic and not to let them get to you so much. Easier said than done I know!

I also know what you mean about not being able to have 'that conversation' with them. To me it feels like saying you know they're going to be dead soon so you want to tell them you love them before they die. I couldn't even manage to when my dad was dying. We thought he had months but as it turned out he only had a few days after he'd been told he had a terminal illness. We managed a few brief stabs each at expressing our feelings, but I like to think the hours I sat by his bed holding his hand told him all I wanted him to know. Accept them for what they are, keep visiting, try and give each of them the support they need and that will show them that you love them.

[ladyWordy]

No real help but a couple of observations  - which may have nothing to do with your situation, but here they are:

1. dads are lovely, but notoriously bad at taking care of their health, even highly intelligent ones. What some of the do is act very carelessly and then become surprised at the damage/ill health that follows, which results in mums having to tend to them, when they are often unwell themselves. This results in mums trying to second guess everything to stop it happening. Very wearing to witness from both angles! 
   
   Of course it may not be health related nagging, so ignore if that doesn't apply.
   
   
2. this may be a total red herring, and I'm risking a flaming here, there is a very popular drug out there that doctors and newspapers constantly rave about. It's mostly taken by older people; and for some unlucky ones, not only can it cause pain, exhaustion and amnesia (all the things people blame on age, so tend to ignore if they occur) - it can also cause a slightly irritable person to become monstrously irritable. All day long! Seen at first hand.. and seen more than one case. So I'm not going against any medical advice, which would be wrong..... just mentioning it in case.
   
   
3. ask them  if there's any specific thing which might help.
   
    If there's nothing, my suggestion is to separate mum from dad by taking one of them out somewhere. Then take the other one! Going out can be very hard in this age group,  so even simple trips make a big difference.
   
   At least if they're separate, they can't rat at each other!

[beachyhead]

I like that suggestion, lady. Maybe ask each one if there is something they would like to do, on their own, with you.. That would give you the special time you need with each one.
Then if they nag or sulk with you,you can mention it plus they might like some time apart....

[TheAgedPs]

Thanks everyone.

I think this is very complex. I suspect my mum possibly nags him when other people are around because she feels "safe" and thinks she can get away with it.
He tends to take only so much over days or weeks, then gets cross with her.

longing your family situation sounds like mine. I wish I could just pop round but being cooped up for 3 days in a tiny house with them is murder. Sorry to hear about the little time you had with your dad, at the end.

I think the most I can do if the situation arises again, is to ask her not to chide him in front of my DH- it really does belittle my dad. My mum understands this- she's very " canny" when it suits her as she won't contradict him in front of tradesmen etc as she knows it looks bad- and has said so.

It's very sad because all the family are irritated by her smothering concern, and it pushes us away. She even lectured my single brother on STIs- and he's almost 50!

[pippop1]

Ladywordy, what is the popular drug that you mention? I'd like to know if you feel you can name it. Thank you.

[PooPooOnMars]

I would perhaps stick up for him in small nonconfrontational ways when you are there.

[ladyWordy]

I daren't go there pippop1 ...

[pippop1]

Does it begin with V? I think I've just worked it out! Doh! as DS would say.

[Wingedharpy]

If she's an anxious worrier and has been for years, she's not going to change now in her mid 80's.
From the examples you've given, she sounds concerned for his health TBH.
The eating and sleeping thing may have been related to him getting heartburn in bed if he eats after a certain time or something along those lines.
Also, concern for his health and wellbeing while working in a hot shed.
She may speak to him in a manner which you don't approve of but some couples just have that sort of communication technique (think George and Mildred if you're old enough!!).
She's probably frightened as well. Wondering how she'll manage on her own if anything happens to him.
And it doesn't appear to be all on her side. Your Dad sounds a bit odd too TBH, cooking just for himself and doing his own washing etc.
They clearly have an unconventional relationship and are unlikely to change now.
Don't wait to have "that conversation" that you spoke about.
Just say it as you have here.
Give them both a hug and say that you feel glad that they are your parents even though they are a pair of odd buggers! (no offence intended TheAgedP's).
Good luck.

[RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief]

I suspect my mum possibly nags him when other people are around because she feels "safe" and thinks she can get away with it.

Yes- I think this is a massive factor. In fact I know couples my age who do this. They will sort of snipe at one another in company on the basis that it allows them to get it off their chest without the other person being able to retaliate, and also I think they're hoping for validation from the other people there (a sort of "real time AIBU"

My parents are in their mid-60s and they bicker endlessly. It really is wearing but I don't expect any improvement now. To be fair, after a rough patch in their 30's/40's lasting approx. 10 yrs, I'm amazed they're made it this far, and they do have a very full and active life together- lots of weekends away and holidays- lots of things they enjoy doing together BUT I just wish they'd give each other a break.

I'd be interested to know in cases like this if the majority of sniping/ PA comes from the mum- I know in my case it does and also in the Op's and I do think a lot of it is stuff they were pissed off about 30 yrs ago and never got off their chests- particularly stuff related to division of labour on housework and childcare- and they're now making up for lost time