to think that people don't really change

[nodistanceleft]

Name changed for this....

DH and I have been having marriage counselling since April. Some things have got better, but other things - mainly the real deal breaker, trust - have not changed.

There's also a big issue about how we handle conflict, where we both bear responsibility. I have really been working on this, and try to speak to DH only when I'm calm; if he gets wound up, I suggest we talk at a time when we're both feeling calmer. If I'm careful around him, and am alway calm when he is annoyed, things work ok. This week I'm very tired (DS2 is still not sleeping through at 16 months) and also had a 24 hour bug. When DH got annoyed with me yesterday - about something very minor - I stupidly reacted and we had a big argument.

I feel I have done an enormous amount to support DH. I have supported him through a career change (involving a massive paycut). I have done the vast bulk of childcare and house stuff for many years (even when I was working full time, pregnant, and he was between jobs), and enabled him to work away from our home town, often for significant periods of time. We have two under-threes and I work part-time, so life is busy and often tiring (though both DSs are delightful). DH's practical support has improved a lot, though in my opinion, he still does less in the house than he would do as a single man. I also feel that I get very little emotional support from him.

Fundamentally, I feel he would like a very traditional relationship. For example, he has talked about being 'entitled' to do certain things (e.g. maintaining a very close, secret texting relationship with a single ex-girlfriend). He also wants a lot of thanks and appreciation for what he does around the house, though takes almost all that I do entirely for granted. He says he is committed to an egalitarian relationship, but he's been saying that for years and his behaviour indicates the contrary.

So, sorry this is so long, AIBU to think he can change, or should I just accept that I am never going to be able to provide him with the kind of relationship he wants (and indeed vice versa)? I am certainly willing to continue to go to marriage counselling, but I feel a sense of despair that there will be no real change from doing so.

[PomBearWithAnOFRS]

Just my opinion, and worth exactly what you pay me for it but I don't think people ever change their fundamental nature. ?By a continuous conscious effort of will (which sounds like what you've been doing) they can change superficially, and "do the right thing" but they can't change who they are deep down, their nature and personality are what they are, and that doesn't change.
He might have made a bit of an effort, and "done a bit" but probably oly because it suited him to do it at the time - he gets a quieter life, a nicer home, his dinner cooked, his socks washed, sex without too much effort etc etc, but he sees his improved behaviours as the means to that end, and self serving, not as something he actually feels and wants to do and keep up. He'll do it for as long as it suits him, but it's a condescending favour to the little woman to shut her up, not an actual change in his attitude.

[porcamiseria]

Oh dear OP

I think you have answered your queston in your post TBH
Give it go anyway, as it will help firm up any decisions you want to make

xxx

[Paiviaso]

I think, in general, yes people can change. This doesn't mean your DH will though.

If, after lots of counciling, with you telling him how you feel and what you want from him, he still doesn't change, then I would guess he isn't going to change, no.

It is easy for him to say he will change, but as always action speak louder than words.

Did you not know what he was like when you married him though? I think it is a bit unreasonable to marry someone, then expect them to change. I'm going to guess you saw glimmers of his behaviour before marriage, you must have had an idea of the type of man you were marrying.

[MadgeHarvey]

People can change and definitely more so if there is an incentive to do so. Is he aware that he might lose you if he doesn't change - and if he is aware how much does that matter to him? The answer to that may not be the one you want to hear but it would clear it up once and for all.

[squoosh]

Secret texting realtionship with an ex? That would be a big no no for me.

[Birdsgottafly]

You can change, especially if the 'fault' has come from your upbringing and past experiences.

However you have to want that change and the stuff that he does that is making you unhappy, the txting and not appriectiating you, is easily righted.

If it was just a matter of having a quick temper and being unable to accept blame, then that takes longer and a lot of work.

I would say that he isn't choosing to make a change and that he doesn't think that not changing has serious consequences.

[WhereYouLeftIt]

Although I think some change is possible, I think by adulthood our fundemental personalities are set pretty much in stone. He is, now, pretty much what he always will be.

I'm sorry but the way you have to live would be unbearable to me. You always have to be aware of his mood and consider your response to him to avoid minor conflicts becoming major - also known as 'walking on eggshells'. That is no life at all.

Also -

"he has talked about being 'entitled' to do certain things (e.g. maintaining a very close, secret texting relationship with a single ex-girlfriend)."
Absolute deal-breaker for me. I can see no need for it to be secret unless he also feels entitled to have affairs.

"He says he is committed to an egalitarian relationship, but he's been saying that for years and his behaviour indicates the contrary."
Actions speak louder than words. What he is actually committed to is having you as a domestic servant whilst he lives as a single man.

[nodistanceleft]

Thanks all

Pombear - I think you're right about superficial v character change. I find I'm much more argumentative with DH than with others (where I'm relatively peaceable), but DH generally has quite a confrontational style. I'm not trying to absolve myself of responsibility, but feel it's a big effort for me not to get het up by him, whereas with most people I keep my temper all the time.

Paiviaso - Yes, I foolishly ignored early warning signs. My mistake. I would now advise anyone NEVER to ignore things that concerned them early in a relationship.

[theboutiquemummy]

Post this in relationships you will get some great advice.

However I do think people can and do change but only if they want to and thats at the core of everything. I don't know your husband but it sounds like he is paying lip service to your needs keep up the counselling

then if you really feel deep down its over you will know you have tried your best and are now free to move on with your life.

Being married is tough sometimes but being married and miserable is soul destroying.

[KatMumsnet]

Hi, we've moved this into Relationships now. Thanks.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

"AIBU to think he can change"

Yes. It is always a vain hope to enter into a relationship with someone, knowing their faults but expecting them to somehow improve over time. IME If anything, personality flaws get more entrenched and bad habits more pronounced rather than better with age. 'Familiarity breeds contempt', people get lazy, take each other for granted, know how to push the buttons,. The little idiosyncracies that start out annoying but tolerable are the reason you bury them under the patio 10 years down the track

What bothers me about your story is the phrase 'if I'm careful around him'. When you're at the stage where one partner is putting their real emotions on hold in order to to accommodate the other's unreasonable behaviour, then it's difficult to come back from that. Maybe you were always incompatible?