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womens attitudes to crossdressing(878 Posts)
i write this as a response to the numerous comments on a variety of posts regarding reaction to any stories where crossdressing is a subject. Firstly i'd like to make it clear that i am male and as such appreciate i may be laying myself bare to the onslaught of comment that is likely to come my way. although male i love to wear "womens clothes". What I would like to know is simply why shouldn't I. can anyone give me one valid reason why I shouldn't? because I have never been able to think of one.
I am happily married with two dds and a beautiful wife , all of whom i love very much. My wife knows all about my dressing and has been with me to a couple of tv gatherings. i told her not long after we got together and she was totally fine with it, we have been married now for 8 yrs. we do not let the children know as they are still quite young.
In all other respects I am very much one of the lads......I like football and beer (but then so do many women!), i work in construction, I teach martial arts, I help with housework , I don't mind ironing(coz i can do it while watching tv!)
I take a size 10 and look pretty good in a skirt and heels, but then so does my wife, its just she can do it whenever she pleases and good for her. its just the injustice and ignorance of society that infuriates me.
I'm curious to know how the rest of women feel about the issue
freddie..........if you don't like it then don't read or post on it
The whole point is that I don't have an issue with it. I had a boyfriend who liked to dress as a woman.
I don't see the issue here.
Now wait a minute... So now it is not about just wearing clothes that you like without fear of social sanctions it is about aping women?
Then it is very offensive. For the same reason you are now "oh, she drives fast is that what you mean?" -ing... Because you recognise now, although not consistently, that reducing maleness to weird stereotypes, prejudices and affectations is fairly unacceptable, so why don't you see that crossdressing involves making a very basic assumption that the opposite gender can be reduced to silly affected things and also in the case of men aping women, the affectations are particularly offensive because they have been used as tools to oppress and objectify women...
Offered I think I'm a little bit in love with you after that last post.
That is partly what I meant, Freddie, yes.
(So now it is not about just wearing clothes that you like without fear of social sanctions it is about aping women?- Offred)
There is a proper consensus that most women dont mind men wearing womens clothes.
Your phrase aping women reaches the heart of the issue. Men adopting womens clothes as their own is one thing. But there are a significant number of cross dressers who feel that they are expressing a female identity ( shorthanded as women born in mens bodies), not aping behaviour or mores.
The dilemma for women with cross dressing partners is, are they dealing with the former, or latter situation? This is compounded by the probability that the cross dresser themselves will probably not know. They only discover by exploring. By exploring they may discover in themselves things which they did not know, or had repressed. It is quite a gamble for the female partner.
offred , you continually misrepresent what i am saying for to fit in with your perspective of me, which is wrong. I don't attempt to ape women. quite the opposite. as many have said , they don't have a problem with men wearing skirts. yet you suggest that cd ing involves making basic assumptions about women. nonsense, i don't care if its monkeys who wear skirts, just as long as i can too, nothing to do with gender assumptions. its society in general whuich makes these assumptions
Would you like me to quote your last post for clarity?
Personally I don't think a monkey should be allowed to wear a dress because they're too big and hairy and wouldn't look good...
it was a metaphor for the fact that i don't care who else wears skirts and don't hold any prejudice against anyone
oh come on offred, you know what i mean!!
Why are you keeping this thread going? I do not understand. If you want to go wear a skirt go wear a skirt. Or a dress. Or trousers. Or a banana costume.
No one is really that interested.
I think in nearly 1000 posts and almost one year of this thread I have never actually been clear on what you mean cali.
It is coming across to me that you don't see women or monkeys as people, one of those views is more reasonable/accurate than the other...
maybe you could wear a monkey costume...
AND a skirt.... that really would be controversial...
offred, you continue to suggest that i have some form of dislike of women and hold them somehow in low esteem. absolute nonsense
Cali I'll spell it out for you. You yourself have said you were honest from day one with your DW about being a CD. That is admirable. I cannot even imagine how nervous you would be that you'd lose a potential relationship with someone you cared about, but you did the right thing. That is brave in my book.
...Yet you argue that men actively lie to their partners due to a fear of being left by the person they love. Shouldn't all CD's be upfront as you were? Offred is saying you don't see women as human beings who are allowed to make choices on who they want to fuck. Excuse my language, I tried to dance around it but you either don't get it or are ignoring so I'm putting it your face.
I don't give a shit about CDing. They're clothes Yes, I have an issue with aping women but that is hardly just a CD issue.
So why is it okay for a CDto lie to keep his gf/DW whilst knowing if she found out it could potentially destroy hers?
Sexuality is fluid. I believe in Kinsey. I believe in the possibility of myself being attracted to a CD but honestly? If you represent the majority view then no way
Wanna know why? Nothing is more hurtful or a bigger turn off than a LIAR.
Sorry that second line was confusing. Basically, why does the CD get to lie, get the life he wants even when he knows the woman he professes to love so much would be crushed?
Why does he matter more than her?
That's why you come off sexist. You seem to think (I say seem as I only know from your posts on a forum) that the CD's desire to be secretive and in certain cases hide sexual urges from the woman they 'love' (and no, I'm talking activities that require only one set of hands, not cheating) is far more important than
A.) A woman's right to a informed decision who she has a partner/DH
B.) It's okay to lie because the man may lose what HE wants and if he does? Blame it on prejudice and your bigoted wife. Which leads me to:
C.) You really don't think women have a right to their own sexual proclivities and sex is all about the man. Therefore, I dump a CD? I'm a bigot.
I don't understand what cali is on about either.
All I know is I don't want to be in a relationship with a man who obsesses about anything, including dressing up in women's clothes.
But if I see a man in the street in a dress then that is ok.
I don't assume that all women object. what i do suggest is that many women do, based upon uninformed prejudices. Equally many women couldn't give a monkeys. but what the concern for many cds is that the woman they may want to have a relationship with is in the former and if its a deal breaker then they will end up being secretive and thus leading to the inherent problems down the line
if its a deal breaker then they will end up being secretive
Why? If it's a deal breaker, don't fucking do it!
If you need to do it, be honest with the woman and give her a chance to choose the type of person she wants to be with.
These attitudes have got fuck all to do with clothes. You just keep spouting the same old nonsense. And you haven't taken on board any of the opinions you asked for.
And if your conclusion, as in the paragraph above, is that not all women object, many do and equally many couldn't give a monkeys, then therein lies your answer. Women are not a collective group with one mind. They are individuals, they are all going to have different opinions.
I have read the first page but can't do all 9 as DD still up! Sorry if I am repeating.
I think an underlying issue for many women is not only that men are meant to be 'masculine' (same era as 50's housewife perhaps or maybe a biological hunter gatherer interest?) and the thought of their parnter pulling off 'sexy' in their dress is unappealing as we like to keep that side secretive and thus sexy (at least for a while). I think some women would be a bit worried if a man can fit into a size 10 and is thinner, as we are conditioned to believe that women are meant to be the slender/weak sex and it is somehow important that we are.
I personally think it is a load of tosh - women can wear trousers and suits and are taking on more 'male' jobs, but as Melanthrope said on pg 1
*Its ok for a woman to be a 'tomboy' or watch footy or whatever because, ultimately, for a woman to want to be a man is a 'step up.'
On the other hand, a man who likes to 'feminine' things - to sew, wear dresses, etc, is taking a 'step down' as men are above women in status. *
Perhaps you need to start a dressing revolution OP - men used to frown and stare at women wearing trousers at first, I imagine it would be a similar situation should the roles be reversed.
Yes Lion women went through a hell of a lot to be 'allowed' to wear trousers. And the right to vote. And for equal pay, oh wait, that one hasn't been achieved yet.
Hey, guess what?
Sorry to resurrect this thread but today I walked past a man in a skirt in my home town.
He was wearing a floral wrap around skirt with a cream background and black and grey flowers. He had low sandals and his long, blonde hair was just tied back in a pony tail. He wasn't wearing makeup or stuffed bra. He looked ok and people were not staring.
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