not sure whether to leave a difficult relationship

[jencd]

I really can't believe I am taking to a message board to post about the most important decision of my life, I've been reading through other posters situations trying to get them to fit into mine but i decided our situation is just so none typical it should be it's own post. I need to be as objective as I can be to see if this sadness is me being hyper crytical or really living in a relationship without hope.

I met DH 5 1/2 years ago, I live in France and he was over here working for a month. We had a blast together and it became clear it we could become something more serious than a holiday romance. At the end of the month DH told me about a very painful custody battle he was going through over his son, he hadn't planned on telling me anything about it but because he hoped to carry on our relationship he 'came clean' so to speak. My heart really broke for him when he talked to me about his DS and the heartache he was going through with his ex withholding access.

Over the next six months we had a long distance relationship, visiting each other in seperate countries. DH bought a house and had his access issues resolved. We went on a long holiday together for 1 month and DH decided after that to move to France to be with me. This meant he would have to fly home to see his son which he did religiously every month and as DSS got older he spent holidays etc with us.

Unfortunately circumstances were never as great for us as those first few months, financial issues, the house my DH bought rapidly devalued, there's constant highs and lows with DSS and his mother, my relationship with DSS can be very difficult, DH is self employed and has huge financial pressures. I ended up rying to take as many day to day tasks from DH as possible to make his transition to moving countries easir, and i still do all these things, to the point where he never even checks his own bank balance. We've always had huge, long winded arguements, 3 years ago i lost a baby and DH was diagnosed with depression, we even went to couples counselling for a bit as I couldn't cope with his depression and my grief.

Nonetheless we have always overcome everything. We got married last year and bought a beautiful home. Business was booming, my career was going well, things seemed to be settling down with DSS and his holidays to visit us and my DH was coping well with everything. The only time we really argued was when DH forgot to take his antidepressants and his "black dog" came out.

Then DSS' mum decided she was going to move to Australia with DSS. A huge court battle and painful period ensued. It was the same time as we bought our house, which is a renovation project. Christmas was awful with lots of rows upsetting the DSS. Then we realised that because DH had had such a good year work wise last year all our taxes etc would be more this year. We are now broke, with a house that needs finishing and DSS is living on the other side of the world, which is obviously hard for DH to deal with.

Now I am six months pregnant, expecting in November. I really want my house finished to some degree by the time the baby comes. I'm worried about money and work and my maternity leave. All DH and I do now seems to be argue. If one of us isn't stressing about one thing it's the other one. DH's orginal house is being repossessed. I'm terrified this might mean we lose our family home. I've been financially supporting us through all of this year while DH has been paying his taxes and other debts off. He runs up bills on his credit card. I even paid his child maintenance this month.

Then last night he told me he was going on a works night out on saturday. I was so furious with him over money, I can't afford to go out for the evening and i don't know how he thinks he can. Another huge argument ensued. I feel more and more as if I am the only one of us facing up to our responsibilities while DH carries on squandering money/ignoring the problems. He said last night he was so much happier before he had all these responsibilities and I think he's so selfish always thinking about what he wants to do and how hard done to he is because he doesn't go to partying like he could when he was a teenager. It was my 30th birthday at the weekend and he spent the whole night sulking because I was centre of attention and having a good time with my friends, he got really drunk and then asked me to leave all my guests to go off to skype his son at midnight. when I said i thought it was rude he went into a big "woe is me" period making me feel guilty for enjoying myself.

We have completely different attitudes on the house and the schedule for finishing it. I can't ask anyone else to do anything as he wants things his way. he also wants time to hang out with his friends, play sports etc and nothing has been done for weeks. I hate living in a semi building site and everyday have a time bomb ticking in my head about money and the baby coming in a few months.

Whenever we argue it is tit for tat (it always has been really awful when we argue - DH says very hurtful things and normally storms off saying he wants to split up). I can't raise an issue without DH trying to compare it to something I have done, making a list of things i have done wrong, which in turn i try to defend, which leads to worse arguing more bad feelings and more hurt.

Often after we argue like this DH apologises and makes an effort for a while, but we always end up arguing again.

I am just wondering now if it wouldn't be easier for us to split up. DH can go off and enjoy his hobbies, go drinking with his mates and at least my baby won't be in a disruptive environment.

[CogitoErgOlympics]

If you can't talk, can't resolve the problems and seem to be constantly lurching from one crisis to another, it's miserable. Financial problems, mental health issues and tugs-of-love are hard work by themselves, never mind all at the same time. As he's already gone through the heartache of one failed relationship and battles over his son, you'd think he'd be clinging onto you rather than pushing you away.

Maybe it was just a holiday romance after all...

[jencd]

Yes Cogito, that's what everyone says, including my MIL (the hanging on to me bit not the holiday romance bit ).

But now we are married, with a child on the way, joint financial responsibilites... it's not as easy as it would've been then to walk away.

and it really hurts to think it's come to this after everything we've pulled though before.

[KickTheGuru]

I think the saddest thing seems to be that he can't accept the past and learn to like his life and his future with you. Through his divorce and his turn of events, he can either accept his life and his past for what it is and look forward to a future with you and the new baby. Or he can continue to harbour the depression and sense of loss despite what he has with you.

It's a situation that he basically needs to really look at and see you and the future with you as worth him trying to get over his past.

Otherwise, he has his back to his future and will never be able to love you and your baby properly.

[Offred]

Maybe he is frightened to connect because of what happened with his son or maybe he has just learned nothing from it and is very selfish. You have to decide what to do based on who he is not who you want him to be I think and it does sound as if you have tried and tried but got to the end of your tether.

[jencd]

wow, amazing kicktheguru my mum and all my friends say exactly the same thing. I thought posting on here, telling the whole story might kick up something else, another opinion, as i thought they were probably just taking my side because they love me.

so how come he doesn't see that when it's clear to a total stranger who read a 5 minute summary of our time together?

and i suppose there's no point trying to "make him see," he has to do that for himself....

[KickTheGuru]

I think the harsh thing is that he needs to harden up and move on from it. Basically, he chose to marry you. He chose to have a baby with you. He can't now decide that it's too hard. He doesn't really get that option.

He chose to start again and to start a new life and to almost "punish" you for that is unfair. Yes it's hard, but you've helped him and stuck with him through all that rubbish and tried your best to support him and love him and the very LEAST he can do is to see that worth in you and to give you that support and unconditional love back.

Glad I said the same as your mum and mates :)

[CogitoErgOlympics]

"and it really hurts to think it's come to this after everything we've pulled though before."

The trouble with relationships forged in difficulties is rather like the people you meet when stranded for 48 hours at an airport with nothing to do except hope the hurricane doesn't tear off the roof. You get along amazing well because it's all rather sharp-focus and you're clinging together for moral support but something tells you that, if you met in the cold light of day, you'd soon find faults with each other.

Have you ever asked his ex why they broke up?

[KickTheGuru]

My dad went through something VERY similar.

He did not for a second love his "second" child less than his first. In fact, he probably loved us more because we lived with him 100% of the time, whereas his ex wife took the first children overseas. Yes, he missed them and initially he tried to make it work. Through various reasons, it didn't and he didn't see them for a very long time and then died.

We are all adjusted people and are all married. I am the last to try and breed. All the children are fine.

People deal with it and get over it. He certainly can't punish the unborn for that. Or you.

[jencd]

I'm hoping that when we have the new baby arrives it will give DH the wake up call I feel he needs to bring his attention to us and we will get the best of him. But I am also trying to be as realistic as possible and take into account that maybe it won't.

Good point cogito sometimes I wonder if I hadn't felt so sorry for DH in the early days I would've let go. Perhaps in many ways I've confused sympathy with love and now I'm starting to realise that I'm the one in need of the support and I'm not in a relationship used to that dynamic.

Do you know what is really crazy when you bring up the point of him finding it hard to connect because of what happened before, and the idea that he might lose me and my baby if he doesn't look forward to his future for us... the crazy thing is I always think "i can't leave because I can't make him go through that again!" Proof I guess that my feelings really do come second, even to me.

[jencd]

kicktheguru did your mum have problems like this when the ex took away your dad's kids?

[jencd]

and the "ex" was never really that much of a girlfriend anyway, he didnt chose her, didnt want a baby with her, but he did want to be a dad to DSS when he was born, and he does love him very much. No way i could ever speak with her, it's extremely acrimonious.

[KickTheGuru]

I will be honest and say that I don't believe you confuse sympathy with love. I think in those moments, you see a person for who they really are. The breaking point we hit in life really does strip you of any pretences and arrogance and we become the basic person that we should be - with no barriers. Its unfortunate but it's that stripping away of the layers and the real person beneath that you fall in love with. When life isn't so difficult, people seem to pick those barriers up again. That's what I believe anyway.

My dad told my mum he didn't want any more kids. He really battled - my half siblings were 5 and 3 when they were taking overseas with their mother. My dad tried to see them a couple times but as they got older, they also formed their own opinions of him and the younger one saw my dad for the last time when he was about 12. The elder one saw my dad at about 19 years old. I see both of them (even though we are all in different countries) on a rare occasion.

My dad eventually (after about 2 or 3 years and shortly after their marriage) told my mother he wanted to try again. I think he also kind of felt that he loved her and didn't want to scupper her chance to have children - she was 29 at the time and he was 10 years older than her. He was very distant with my mother during her pregnancy and it was an incredibly difficult time for my mother.

That said, the minute the baby was born, my dad was the doting parent. He was tougher on my brother though - he had now had 3 boys. By the time I was born, my mother said my dad grew the apron strings and he was running around over me like a love sick puppy.

I guess it's not ever going to be easy. My dad had had an awfully difficult childhood as well and he had three different marriages. I think my dads inability to truly trust came from his experiences as a child (he found out late in life that his last name was different and the person he called "dad" wasn't his biological father). He never stopped loving us though - we never doubted his love for us.

[Offred]

If that is what he thinks (and has told you) then that's probably why it is "very acrimonious". I'm not sure I'd be keen on believing that either. He seems to demonstrate double standards at least because he moved to another country first but tried to then stop her doing the same. Yes the difference in distance is significant but still. I just wonder if he ever takes responsibility for anything and whether he ever has or if he has an external locus of control which makes him think he is a passive participant in his own life and horrible things "just happen" to him.

[KickTheGuru]

Having said that, my mother is also a fairly bitter woman and by the time I was 19 - her and my dad called it quits. My mother also had some issues with her parents (I am bordering on abnormal!) and I don't think she ever got over that enough either.

In fact, I think my entire fucking family has very serious rejection issues and we do tend to push people away. My saving grace has been my husband. I can't push him away, even if I tried. Even when I am angry with him, I need to touch him. I will go to sleep at night with an arm out just barely touching his skin.

I've never been so loved or so cared for in my life and neither has my DH. We've all had shit childhoods, we've all lost things and we've all been hurt.

The ability to rise above the hurt and not hurt anyone else on your road is something very few people manage. Your DH still needs to learn that. I guess whether we stay with someone because we do see that future with them or not is up to us. I can imagine that a part of you promises yourself that you will never do to him what his ex did. And here is the crux of it - you can get divorced but you can also do it in such a way that that relationship isn't broken.

I have a mate who HATES the father of her child, but she allows the father into her house every evening after work to be there to bath the baby or have dinner with his child. She won't let her emotions get in the way of his relationship with her baby. If we could all take that leaf out of her book - wow. Just like...wow. We don't need to be worried that we are going to destroy someone's life. Just so long as we make sure we don't set out to destroy someone's life. If you know what I mean?

[jencd]

offred I have actually met DSS's mum and from what I saw she really isn't a nice person. I was together with DH from when DSS was 1 1/2 and have seen and heard enough to understand why they could never have a relationship. She's completely the opposite to me... but then he seems unable to have a mutually fufilling relationship with me too.

DH didn't ever try to stop her moving as such, more tried to make sure he wouldn't lose contact with his son.

I could do a whole other post about DSS and his issues, he's now 7 and last week told his mum he wanted to kill himself because he couldn't take his life anymore. I know it sounds terrible, but after years of this type of drama and ongoing trauma I'm a little bit sick of putting my feelings on the back burner, because there's always another "more serious" problem in DH's life. I am sure it heavily contributes to DH's depression as well as his personality and the time he has to devote to our relationship. I often feel like the 2nd most important person, or even 3rd (after the ex) in DH's life. Even though I'm the only person really helping him to get over it.

Maybe I didn't confuse sympathy with love... but maybe I've excused an awful lot of means comments and irresponsible behaviour and put my feelings to one side as I've always felt DH has so much on his plate.

I just don't know if this is another "tough patch" or indeed a "tough year" or if it's just time to put it all behind me. Id hate my child to suffer the same feelings of being second best, or less important that I have over the past few years.

Normally, after such news from his ex and a few arguements with me, DH decides to "f**k it all" and goes out on a bender where I don't know where he is or when or if he's coming home. I really don't want my baby to suffer those moments either.

[KickTheGuru]

Yeh one thing I will say is that he needs to put you first. Regardless on how many children he has - he can love them and see them and pay maintenance but if he wants a life with you, you need to be priority. I know a lot of people won't get that, but you can't come fourth in his life behind DSS, ex, pubs and work. It won't work

As you say, how much can you put your life on hold for his stuff?

My DH and I have had a fair bit of stress and I've unequivocally told him that I can't and won't stand for any more stress from that. He says he feels the same, but as much as I adore him, there is a point where his stress ruins my life and my sanity and no one (let me repeat that...NO ONE) has the right to destroy your life.

[KickTheGuru]

And what has happened to DSS that he feels he wants to kill himself? Is he projecting his mothers' attitude? He seems awfully young to have a concept of suicide?

[KickTheGuru]

Sorry one last post - as you say, if you come fourth behind DSS, ex, work and pub - where will your baby come? If can't guarantee that as the 100% full time father, he can't put your needs and your baby's needs first, then he potentially needs to go and find whatever makes him happy and concentrate on that

[jencd]

I don't know about DSS, I really spend a lot of time worrying about him too. his behaviour has always been difficult and he has a weird interest in violence. If he was my son I'd have taken him to get help a long time ago. His mum just had another baby and they moved to australia only a month ago. his behaviour is bad and he's been seperated from the other kids at school. but again, that's not my relationship, not my heart ache to deal with. I try to help by doing research and things for DH but i end up being too involved myself. and then when DH acts up it's too easy to say it's because he's worried about DSS.

Thanks for all the encouragement, I've got a lot of thinking to do.

[Offred]

My ds says this all the time he is just 7, we have talked about it often, he says he doesn't want to actually die he is just trying to explain how bad he feels when he can't express it properly in words.

[KickTheGuru]

Sadly, as you say, it's not your problem. He isn't your son and you can't make decisions over and above his parents or the courts. You can't really involve yourself too much there as you'll land up with extra heartache that will be very unfair on you :(

[Offred]

And it is his daddy issues he is feeling bad about. My ds is not badly behaved at all though, he is super good, articulate and friendly. Is it possible the mum is not allowing him to feel bad (or love) about his dad? That he doesn't feel listened to and is acting out and trying to express how he feels?

[Offred]

I can't help but think this is a big mess with the adults all pulling in different directions because the lynchpin adult (his dad) is not actually taking responsibility for things in his life.

[KickTheGuru]

Yeh - your DH needs to make a stand and a decision and take that decision and make it work. Being all sad and depressed by life helps no one.