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Relationships

Male pride vs marriage...advice please

36 replies

goldgirl41 · 09/07/2012 11:26

My husband is self employed and we have three children aged between 6 and 10.

I have been struggling financially to balance the books for the last four years, from the time I stopped work to look after my youngest. I work 25 hours a week (school hours) for his business and all the housework, washing, school stuff etc outside this time.

I'm trying to find out a rough figure of what a family needs to earn to get by, with an average house, mortgage, one car etc. I believe a family of five cannot survive on £30,000 or less p/a, which is what we've been doing for the last 5 years. Last year we drew £15,000 from his business. There is more in the business account but he wants to keep it in there.

I now need to explain this to my husband and let him see that this is suffocating our marriage. He is intensely proud and driven, and I am getting to the point where I feel that I am taking all the financial strain in order for him to live his dream. I tried to work full time last year (when we completely ran out of money) but having no support (childcare or personal) from him made this impossible and I had to stop. He still expected me to work for his business as well as look after the children and work full-time.

The reason I am posting this is to get some "evidence" to go to with him - I have tried spreadsheets galore which show we spend £40,000 p/a or more, and his response is just that we need to reduce our outgoings, and that I need to get new business in for him. At present his business has no work in the pipeline. Every time I try to talk to him about our situation I am accused of being negative and/or unsupportive.

As you can probably tell there are other things going on in our relationship apart from money, but the situation is eroding our relationship. I am about to start a part time job for mornings only but am sure he won't help with the childcare for the first week before the children go back to school.

Any advice would be very welcome, thank you in advance. I think I am not able to hang on for much longer.

Goldgirl41

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keepcalmandeatcupcakes · 09/07/2012 12:07

Afraid I have no advice, except that hopefully bumping this up for you might get you some help. One thing I will ask though : are you happy in your marriage? Just because of what you said about other things going on.

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Melanthe · 09/07/2012 12:13

If you had 30,000 + a year would you really be happy in this relationship? It doesn't sound like you are in an equal partnership. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life providing support for someone else's goals/desires?

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Aussiebean · 09/07/2012 12:20

I don't think I can help but have a suggestion.

Maybe you could go to a financial advisor together. If a professional tells him it's not working maybe he will be more inclined to listen.

It would be sh*t if he does finally listen to someone else but at least you have a starting point to go forward. One way or another.

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 09/07/2012 12:34

I don't think there is a 'typical' cost of running a household. Depends so much on where you live how much housing costs are and that's often a big chunk of the budget.

If you've worked out that it costs £3k/month to keep things going without being extravagant then that's what it costs. If you can't reduce your outgoings then you have to increase your income.... no brainer. If his business is failing to provide an adequate income then it's not a business but an expensive hobby. If he's keeping the family short but the business accounts plump then that sounds like wrong priorities. Not supporting you in bringing in an income is particularly stupid on his part.

My view would be that you give him a deadline by which the business has to be bringing in enough money to support the family. If it's still only bringing in a low income by that point he gets the choice to either a) get a normal salaried job like other people do or b) support you in becoming the breadwinner.

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goldgirl41 · 09/07/2012 13:36

Thanks for all your replies and help.

There are other problems underneath- probably growing resentment by me that he isn't listening. Ive tried suggesting counselling but he says I can go if I want to but its my problem. He also got really angry when I said I wanted to talk about it to his sister who I am close to, a pride thing I guess, but I feel like I'm being emotionally blackmailed by him to keep it all internalised and carry on with a smile when its all disintegrating. As he's got older I don't like his character - he has no time for people and judges them solely on what they think of his work. He has no other hobbies or interests really.

I mentioned the H word (hobby!) in a row once, won't be doing that again...didn't go down well.

I've posted this in the money matters and relationships sections as I wasn't sure which it was - - probably both - speaks volumes.. :(

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Dahlen · 09/07/2012 13:40

There was a government report out that said to live 'comfortably' (i.e. afford basic outgoings, contribute to a pension, have internet access and afford one UK-based holiday a year) a family of two adults and two children needed about £45,000.

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 09/07/2012 13:47

Then you're in the ultimatum zone. If he doesn't think there's a problem, can't change, won't support you in generating more income and refuses to let you discuss it with anyone else then you've got very few options left beyond 'get real or get out'. If on top of that you don't like him very much and if you feel he's on some ego-trip, selfishly putting his 'art' ahead of providing for his family then I think it's not a question of if the relationship comes to an end but when. Sad but I can't see a way out.

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geegee888 · 09/07/2012 16:14

Its him who needs to get a job, not you!

"Bring him in more business" indeed!

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startlife · 09/07/2012 17:54

This isn't a partnership at all, he is handing sole responsibility over to you for finances - increase income, reduce expenditure and manage to do that with no childcare. It simply won't happen and he's living in dream world.

I don't think this is male pride, he is either putting his head in the sand (at best) or being abusive.
I honestly think you might be better off financially without him. He would have to contribute 25% of his salary and no doubt a contribution to support you.

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motherinferior · 09/07/2012 19:17

I think you should (a) invoice him for your unpaid work for his 'business' (b) stop doing half the housework and childcare.

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motherinferior · 09/07/2012 19:20

Actually I think you should shout quite loudly at him and possibly pour a jug of water over his head, but those might be considered Unreasonable.

I genuinely do not understand this idea that having a penis is such an incredible disability that it prevents you from getting the hoover out.

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pregnantpause · 09/07/2012 19:48

A family needs to have enough money coming in to cover what is going out- including food, pension, etc. A saving if possible of six months expenditure in case of emergency, and enough hopefully for luxury- whether that be as basic as school trips and cinema or holidays depends on the amount left over.
Other than financial a family needs stability, warmth, trust, role models, hardwork-teamwork, and love - reading your post it is here you are lacking.
You feel emotionally blackmailed because you are being emotionally blackmailed. His problems are your problems and your problems arte your problems.he wants you to support him and carry him and refuses to support you, or seemingly his dc. He is obviously selfish and cruel- expecting you to shoulder any burdens that are too tiresome- like childcare and finance.

I can't believe that you are afraid to use the word hobby- fear is not desirable or necessary in a relationship.

Read your post back, and consider what kind of husband he is. You need to provide evidence? Prove yourself? You've tried to express you fears and problems and he's told you that they arent his problem, so f%$k off to a counsellor if you expect to talk about i- on your own of course because he gas no interest in your feelings. I notice you do not refer to him a 'd' husband. I don't blame you- what are yoy getting from this man apart from grief?

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mentlejen · 09/07/2012 23:16

Saw this and thought of you..

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18770783

"Families need £36,800 to live acceptably, study says...."

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goldgirl41 · 10/07/2012 07:38

Oh and to crown it all, he forgot our daughter's birthday yesterday (he's away on a business trip (jolly). I had to text him to remind him to contact her.

Makes it a whole lot more straightforward, I feel like a light has gone out within me.

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 10/07/2012 09:22

I'd take advantage of his trip to get to a solicitor. He's not what you call a family man, is he?

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angeltattoo · 11/07/2012 16:39

I have to ask, what is the business?

A marriage is a partnership, I agree with PP that he does not sound like a partner. If his business cannot support the family, alternative options need to be considered and implemented, whatever they may be.

If you have the figures, the already have the evidence. What would you advise a friend to do, if they came to you and asked you this question?

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AnyFucker · 11/07/2012 16:43

I am very sorry. Your marriage sounds like a penance. He forgot his daughters birthday ?

Unforgiveable (on top of everything else)

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accidentalchickenkeeper · 11/07/2012 16:57

What is the business?
If its only providing an income of £15k p.a with him full-time and you part-time it's not really working is it?
What sort of profit is the business making each year? What reasoning is your dh giving for keeping money in the business account while you struggle with day to day finances?
Sorry lots of questions there!

We run our own business so I appreciate how hard it is to juggle money about. We do live quite frugally at the moment but no way would I allow the business account to grow at the expense of our basic standard of living.

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oldwomaninashoe · 11/07/2012 17:17

My DH is self employed and I used to help out with some of the admin, when I worked part-time, however as soon as it became financially necessary for me to work full time because of lack of business he took over all the admin etc as, being slack, he had the time for it.

Once I was working full time he also pitched in with the "childcare" and household duties etc.
Thats the way it works, if his business is slow, and you are having to work, he has the time to drum up new business.

We have had financially some very tough times over the years but if anything its made us closer.

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Vicky2011 · 11/07/2012 17:59

This is about more than the money, though I understand that is the real and immediate issue. He sounds vile and controlling and, frankly, a bit of a failure in lots of ways. Sorry if that's harsh, but if I was working so hard that I couldn't remember my child's birthday, I would expect to be earning enough that we weren't struggling financially. I can't imagine how you wouldn't be better off without him.

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HeartsTrumpDiamonds · 11/07/2012 18:04

Sounds like your husband wants to be living in the 1950's....

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Mumsyblouse · 11/07/2012 20:00

Mentlejen I also thought of that figure of £36,000 from today's news.

Op- this is not enough money, I don't understand why your husband's dreams trump your reality and why he doesn't do at least some childcare/household tasks. It's all about him, isn't it?

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goldgirl41 · 11/07/2012 20:18

Thank you for all your posts - you have confirmed what I already knew, I'm in a dictatorship, not a partnership.

He sees his work and him as one and the same - I am able to split the two and thats where the problems started.

He's a graphic designer - he worked flat out last year and the business would have made a bigger profit but he needed a new computer system (I know, I know) so that lost the family £20k.

He lives in his own world, has always been freelance so just doesn't get so much about business and how to treat clients, suppliers, business partner (aka wife) and if I ever offer a different view or disagree, he doesn't like it one bit.

We have 3 kids as well - which would increase the £36k I guess?? Older child has SEN which he just struggles with too.

I know what I need to do, just getting the courage up to do it. If it was just me I'd tell him to sling his hook, but its the kids that make it so much more difficult, They are my life.

He's been away for the last ten days and its been great! I have felt really relaxed, in control, my middle DD said "its really calm isn't it" the other day. Am dreading him coming back.

It is all about him - however from next week (DD birthday party at the weekend and theres no distraction from that) things will change.

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AnyFucker · 11/07/2012 20:23

I hope so, love x

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goldgirl41 · 11/07/2012 20:29

accidentalchickenkeeper - as above he's a graphic deisgner. We've never ever earnt more than £35k and that was only when I was earning through private PA work and charging it through his company - which probably made £10k extra per year.

We 'lent' the company £10k last year as it made a loss - it came from a small inheritance he got from his grandmother and its still in there now. Converted to directors loan account.

I am tempted as a 50% shareholder to draw out my 50%.

He just seems to want to see a healthy balance, however hes going to get a shock cos the first thing he has to do tomorrow is give me a personal cheque for the £3k credit card bill this month, £1k of which is some garden stuff he wanted to do. So he can pay for it.

I'm going to hand the finances over to him - or make him look and absorb each bill we have and pay. Sick to death of being the only one of the "partnership" who is worried about this.

We also owe 3 family members a large (and I mean large - many, many thousands) amount of money and he seems to have conveniently forgotten about this. I'm talking £7k, 16k and another amount I can't even write down. I set up a standing order to start to repay it when I was working but had to stop it when my earnings went west.

On the plus side we have a ridiculously large house (larger than we need) and a lot of equity in it. I am thinking downsize, repay everyone and then have a cushion. And I will do it with or without him.

God I'm mad now!!!

Thank you again for all your help. Writing it down and then reading it back makes the scales fall from my eyes...

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