What would you do

[Socknickingpixie]

I am about to break up with my bf basicly he's nit a nice person, no actual physical violence but threats shouting name calling irresponsability dishonesty criminal behaviour and the such like.
We have not been togather long enough for him to have any rights in relation to my home or money he has no PR for our b fed less than 4 month old he has a much older child that he is unable to see without supervision from his parents but I do not know why but know no courts have been involved. I have extream problems expressing due to previous surgery on breasts. He is unable to care for baby without help due to a lack of understanding of basic safety and age appropreate ability to the point of actual dangerious things and struggles to cope with him when I am in the room and he has him on lap for any longer than ten mins he can't understand about not priortising his needs over the babys and gets angery/stressed about what most mums would concider to be half hearted baby cries.
He is under them impression he can have baby every weekend because he has rights. I know the legal suituation but am wanting thoughts on the moral perspective. He has no inderpendant housing and won't give me info regarding his housing suituation he has no income not even benefit(long sanction due to violent behaviour in dhss office) will be paying no maintainance and I am not comfortable with how his parents behave around his other child so would be unwilling to agree to the same suituation as happens with that child.
What would you do?
How would you attempt to enable the babies right to have a relationship without risk and from a purely practicle stance would I be expected to fund his contact in anyway or provide him with baby equipment to assist him as I am unwilling to have him in my my house without a third party (not his mum but his dad perhaps)just incase my grammar is bad all him's refer to stbxbf

[Socknickingpixie]

My inclanation is to allow supervised short but regular contact to enable him to learn how to do it but this requires his input and agreement but he will agree to nothing short of every weekend or co-parenting this is apsolutly out of the question

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

"What would you do?"

He sounds unstable and irresponsible, which is presumably why he is not allowed to look after the older child. A little digging with that child's mother and you'd probably find out why.

Morally.... children have the right to be raised in a safe, secure environment by people that love them. You, as their mother, are morally bound to do everything possible to ensure they don't come to harm. If you feel some obligation for him to stay in contact in spite of his behaviour, find a neutral location (not your home) where you can meet him together with a third party. Do not let your baby out of your sight. He must be used to that by now.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

"he will agree to nothing short of every weekend or co-parenting"

Then he gets nothing. His loss.

[NimpyWindowMash]

Well if he's not willing to compromise on supervised access, then I would offer nothing whatsoever and let him fight you for it legally. He sounds like he is a waste of space, at best, and a possible danger to your baby at worst.
I wouldn't let him bully you into a situation you are not comfortable with. The baby's right to a relationship with his/her (?) father should not be put ahead the right to the safety and stability and decent parenting.

[Socknickingpixie]

Not wanting to drip feed but can't type fast enough. A huge issue is he cannot accept his own limitations he has expressed little understanding as to his own inabilities and apparently thinks he's father of the year unsure if he actually thinks this or if that's just what he says. But when ever anybody else is around he makes the right noises and acts 'hands on' to give you a better idea of dangerious behaviour types it's things like attempting to put a 1 day old in a doorframe bouncer trying to feed a less than weekold chips with salt and vinerger(i know it's all 3 that are an issue not just the salt) thinking it's acceptable/safe to try to put a baby who can't sit up yet in a normal park swing intended to be used for a older toddler not changing baby within a reasonable time scale attempting to handle baby as you would a two year old, significant overheating thinking it's ok to smoke whilst holding baby or in same room,attempts to take baby to drug smoking friends house.shouting when baby cries. Not using child restraints on any baby equipment because they didn't use to have them so why use them those are just the things that instantly spring to mind I have obviously tactfully prevented these things happening and explained why they are dangerious to be met with blank looks or be called to protective (that one was regarding the salt and door swing)

[ImperialBlether]

Oh my god, you can't possibly think of giving him even 10 minutes access to the baby on his own.

I would speak to social services and tell them you want him to see the baby at a contact centre, supervised by SS, whilst you stay in the room too.

To be honest, is he likely to turn up?

I think you may have to consider getting an injunction against him in the future.

[blackcurrants]

holy crap, I wouldn't let him anywhere near that baby and I'd think about getting an injunction to make sure he NEVER gets unsupervised contact.

[Offred]

he has no rights. None at all. The child has a right to contact and a fulfilling relationship. At 4 months old the baby does not need to go overnight and will likely find this distressing even without adding in the feeding problem.

He needs to buck his ideas up I think. I would consider mediation and parenting classes and not allowing contact unless you are sure he has the baby's needs in mind and you are sure she'll be safe.

[Dprince]

Well imo its another child he should be seeing only when supervised.
I have to ask why you would be with someone who is only allowed to she their child supervised and not know why. That would ring alarm bells for me. Why would you have a baby with him. Presuming its was not planned why did you nit find this out before baby came along. What made you not put him on the birth certificate.
Is there alot more to this?

[Offred]

And yes contact centre contact is a good plan.

[izzyizin]

Your bf clearly didn't learn anything about baby/child care with his first dc and he's not going to learn from his second because he's convinced that he's got nothing to learn.

From what you've said, your baby is at serious risk of suffering physical harm at the hands of your bf.

His lack of appropriate care and concern for your baby, together with his history of violence and inability to control his anger when the baby cries, would suggest that he is unfit to be left in sole charge of any infant .

The welfare and wellbeing of your baby is of paramount importance and I have no hesitation in advising you to get this man out your home asap with the assistance of the police if necessary.

It would seem that your bf has an informal arrangement with the dm of his older dc whereby any contact he has with the child is supervised by his parents.

You are under no legal or moral obligation to facilitate any such arrangement and, after he has left your home and should he wish to see your dc, I would strongly urge you to insist that any contact takes place in your presence in the supervised environment of an approved contact centre.

The only moral issue that should be of concern to you is the need to safeguard and protect your dc from harm.

Until such time as your stbxbf attends parenting and anger management courses any 'relationship' he has with his dc must, of necessity, be subject to stringent conditions.

I suspect that once this tosser impregnates his next gf he won't be arsed to maintain any contact with your dc.

I'm at a loss to understand why any woman would want to have a relationship, let alone have a child, with such a man. Were his deficiencies not apparent to you before you became pg?

[waltermittymissus]

He needs to go on an intensive parenting course fast. I would consider speaking to your HV to see if she can help point you in the right direction.

Do you have RL support? This view will, I'm sure, be very unpopular but if I were in your shoes I would consider moving away (back to family perhaps). I wouldn't "run" away and I would allow though not facilitate visitation.

[pixiecalledfrog]

I had 2 toxic fathers, df and dsf. Neither were aware of their limitations and would be very rough even when just playing. If we cried in pain df would get angry and shout at us for making him feel guilty, no concern was shown for our injury. Neither df or dsf could tolerate crying/upset of any kind. They would panic and lose it and we would get hurt. Your stbxp sounds like he would follow similar patterns of behaviour.

Your ds can exercise his right to contact when he is fully responsible for his own welfare and safety, and can make an informed decision. At the moment yyou need to protect his right to be safe from all harm, both physical and emotional. My dm didn't, and now I hate her.

[Socknickingpixie]

i have already taken legal advice (i also know the advice i was given to be correct) i currently have no grounds at all for obtaining a none molestation order. i can attempt it but i will not suceed inless he is a no show at court.

i cannot use a contact centre just because i ask to with out leave from the court as we live in a area with extreamily limited center places i am aware that he cannot take me to court without obtaining a pr order.

i got pregnant as a result of a one night stand and only started a relationship with him at 5 months gone. at the time i didnt understand that he wasnt allowed her with out his parents i thought it was just what they did because they did it that way.i know understand hence why hes on his way out

i know that because there has been no actual violence im going to look like a bitter person who is being restrictive if it gets as far as court without me being able to demonstrate that i have tried to offer him something reasonable and safe if i dont and it appears that i am being differcult then he is likly to end up with a pr order and contact order

i have given him info on parenting courses but he cannot comprehend that he needs it.

[struwelpeter]

Talk to your HV first about your concerns and the situation as it now stands. Explain what has happened before and ask her re getting the Social Services involved on an advisory capacity re the wellbeing of your DC. They will be very pro you for realising potential dangers and trying to work out how to protect your DC. It is important to get all this documented. Kick him out with help of police or whatever, if it is your home, you are only one on the tenancy then he has no legal right to be there. Then refuse to have anything to do with him. He then has to get PR, go to court re contact and Cafcass/SS will know why he has supervised contact and whether the same reasons are likely to apply to your DC too. If contact centre spaces are limited then the courts/Cafcass will be the ones finding a solution.

[Offred]

We don't have contact centres to which you can just refer yourself either.

I had similar concerns when I was going through this with xp. He did take me to court even though I wasn't stopping him see ds.

I was frightened.

The court experience was scary but they did listen to me. I was able to assert why I wouldn't allow certain things and what I thought was reasonable and why and in the end they agreed with me (said the case was vexatious).

Could you use his parents (with caution when child is non-verbal do short times) and if this doesn't work attend mediation to talk about why contact need to be supervised and what he needs to do then wait for him to take you to court if he doesn't do it.

You do not have to allow contact that PTA your child at risk.

[izzyizin]

Have you asked/told him to leave or otherwise put him on notice that he cannot continue to live in your home?

If he has no income, how does he manage fto feed/clothe himself? Is it an option for him to live with his dps?

I would suggest you act on struwelpeter's advice; if he has no proof of income it's highly unlikely that he will be granted legal aid to institute any proceedings against you in respect of pr/contact.

He may talk the talk in terms of bluff/bluster/threats but, given that he has no werewithal to fund court proceedings, I very much doubt that he'll be able to walk it.

[Socknickingpixie]

He can prove he has nil income but in a few months his sanction runs out so providing he's not in my home he can claim jsa even without he will get legal aid so it's no biggy for him to go running to court.I have no intention of letting him stay whilst he finds somewhere he will have to go back to his parents.he is not my problem he's his own problem due to him being an adult. He is fed clothed ect by leaching off me another reason why I don't wish to remain with him I have zero tollerance for a healthy adult male with no legit reason not to work not doing so. I know he currently has no rights and it's about the babys rights but if it even remotely looked like I was just being differcult for the sake of it it will be very easy for him to get a pr order.
I do have adult children was a lone parent when they were little and never even once interfered with there nrp contact as they were always safe and there dad was not like this we don't like each other but accept that as parents we both made it work.
My barrister has advised me that it's very very important that I be seen to be accomadating his relationship but in a way that presents no risks to little one to make sure it dosnt look like I'm being a pain so we can go down the no order when one isant required route as if it looks like I'm not being helpful he will get a pr order it is essential that I prevent this. The only way I can do this is by making reasonable efforts to cooperate with him hence why I was thinking a offer of third party supervision for very short visits if I offer and he refuses then it's his loss it would be obvious that's he's the issue and the courts would probally agree that no order was needed very much like the poster in a simerler suituation.

[Socknickingpixie]

And yep I am hoping he just moves on and knocks someone else up because yes he then would just forget about us and I can just not engage with his patents other than in a minimal way, his dads lovely his mums nice on the serface but it's very obvious that she's incredibly controling and will cease to be lovely when things don't go her way wouldn't normally be a problem but she's kinda stuck on viewing gradchildren as HERS and her rights weirdly she's only like it with her 2 full grandchildren not her dh's grandchildren even tho they are simmerler ages and her and her dh have been togather for about 30 years and all the kids were brought up togather.I think the whole my rights approach very much comes from her and I'm kinda uncomfortable (I do call her on it) when she slags off other daughters mum infront of her she's only little and shouldn't have to listen to her mum being spoken badly about iykwim

[Offred]

Sounds good legal advice. You have to be reasonable but also make sure the baby is safe and happy as well. Happy is important because if the baby is happy the bonding will be better.

[Offred]

It should be child focused contact.

[Socknickingpixie]

this is what im thinking as well, what do you reckon to either half hour twice a week or half hour 3 times a week supervised but neutral place at a time when lo is relaxed. but saying grandparents can come over to mine once a month or something with or without dad.
does that sound reasonable? is it enough or to much arrrrr want to scream as im not sure whats concidered reasonable.

[Offred]

Yes sounds reasonable little and often is best for small babies.