Need to get some stuff of my chest - my mum

[Iloveautumn]

I'm 37 and I have finally really accepted that my mum doesn't care about me in any genuine way and isn't really interested in me.

I'm not good at making close friendships and so have no-one to talk to about this, apart from dh who has heard about it ad infinitum!! So I thought I'd dump it all out here on mumsnet and maybe there'll be someone out there who has the same kind of relationship with their mum. If anyone can be bothered to read it all - sorry it's not very interesting. Or maybe just writing it down will help..

My mum has always been very distant with me, I've never been able to talk to her about anything and she's never offered me emotional support with anything. I can't remember any problem I've had in my entire life where I was able to talk to my mum about it. She never tried to get me to talk to her and I think I just knew I couldn't talk to her about anything difficult. If me or my brother ever asked her anything she didn't want to deal with she would send us to our dad and had a habit of crying if anything happened which she didn't want to deal with.


(So as a child I felt very alone, was unhappy and developed an ED in my teens as a coping mechanism.)

Fast forward to me as an adult. I very rarely talk to my mum, she NEVER phones me (my dad very occasionally phones me) and when I see her doesn't ask me about my life. Her only references to me are about me as a young child - my dh has noticed this - it's like her relationship with me ended when I was about 7. I find it very hard to be with her because I don't feel myself, I feel she doesn't know me, she just talks at me, I've never had a genuine conversation with her ever.

Examples of her lack of interest:
I had a hugely traumatic miscarriage before I had my dc, was seriously depressed and really struggled to come to terms with it. Absolutely no emotional support from my mum, her only comments were that in her day they didn't know they were having miscarriages because they didn't have early pregnancy tests. (I had to have a d and c because the baby did not mc naturally by 12 weeks - so NOT a very early miscarriage anyway) I actually went on to have 2 more miscarriages, after dc1 and dc2 and got no support for either of these either.

I have 3 dc and when pregnant with all three of them she never took any interest in my health or how the pregnancies were progressing, either on the phone or when I saw her.

She does not take any interest in my 3 dc, never phones to see how they are - even when ds2 has been in hospital with bronchiolitus. Has never offered any help with the children and made a big point out of saying to me and dh when I was pg with ds1 that she would not babysit for us. (She had been regularly looking after my neice one day a week.) I did challenge her on this when ds1 was a baby and she denied saying it and then got my dad to talk to me (she just will not do confrontation at all). (I should add that I am not looking to her for childcare at all, but my parents have looked after my dc once in nearly 6 years and have never ever offered to look after them.)

She frequently forgets dcs birthdays - gives v small presents usually accompanied with, oh it's only a small thing (eg for dd's 1st bday she got a torn towel from QD) (Myparents are v well off so is not lack of money.) When my dd was born they didn't send a new baby card and came to see us without presents. (Re presents and cards it is the lack of care and thought that it represents, not the money aspect.)

Now I come to the present and why I have finally come to the realisation that there is just no genuine care there.
2 weeks ago I sprained a muscle in my calf - that might sound minor but has been absolute agony!!! I didn't sleep for more than an hour or two a night for the first 10 days and could barely walk. I have 3 children under 6. I rang my parents the night after I did it to tell them and arranged to visit them 5 days later. No phone calls in between to see how I was, then I rang them on the morning to say I was in too much pain, could not walk so we wouldn't be coming. Mum just commented on what she was going to do with the pizzas she had defrosted.... (A whole other issue as to why she feels the need to defrost frozen pizzas before cooking them!!!)

Then no more contact for a week before they came round (on their way back from taking my db to the airport - they wouldn't come over just to see us), mum huffed when I asked them to make their own tea and just waited for my dh to finish having a bath so he made it.

Now haven't seen them for 5 days and still no more phone calls to see how I'm doing. when I did see them I told them how bad it's been so they do know.

I should also add that they have not offered to help in any way.

Having been housebound and barely slept for 2 weeks I have done a lot of thinking and have just come to the realisation that if you care about someone and they are suffereing the way I have been and they have 3 young children you would be worried about them. You would phone them to see how they are doing, you would offer them help. You would go round to see them and make them a cup of tea. FGS, I have friends I've known 5 minutes who have done all these things!!!

Anyway, I know this is tedious and doubt anyone will be interested enough to read it. I also guess most people will think I should be grateful I don't have abusive parents. I just feel alone. I've got parents but I haven't got any and that feels lonely. Especially since I don't have friends I really talk to.
(I realise I've only been talking about my mum, my dad is similar but really it's not having a real mother that bothers me most.)

You only get one life and I just feel sad that my one life has been and will be spent without a proper mother. Ok, I'm getting maudlin now and the great thing is that I have a dd of my own now and I can make things right with her....

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have read all your post.

I think you do have abusive parents actually, at the very least they have been and are being emotionally neglectful towards you. Abuse does not have to be solely physical in nature.

Are you and your brother close, what does he make of mum and dad now?. How does he get along with them?.

Your mother in particular comes across as particularly self absorbed and narcissistic in terms of personality making it all about her all the time. Your Dad comes across as a bystander who has acted and acts out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. I would not let him off the hook because he has abjectly failed to protect you and your sibling. People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles.

These people are not and never will be the people you wish them to be; they were not made that way. You are NOT, repeat NOT responsible for their issues; their own birth families did that and I would put money on it that your mother's childhood was abusive in nature as well.

What do you want to do re them; do you ultimately want to go no contact with them/cut them out of your lives?. It may be that you may find it helpful to talk to a counsellor, BACP are good and do not charge the earth.

You may want to read the website called Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers. You may also want to post on the Stately Homes thread that is on the Relationship pages of this site and read "Toxic Parents" written by Susan Forward. Another book you may want to read is "Children of the Self Absorbed".

I would say that the best thing to do is live well. Concentrate your energies on your own family unit and surround yourself and your children with positive role models; not people like your parents who will use them to their own ends.

[BeattieBow]

oh blimey OP I can't help, but to say she sounds just like my mum - down to the miscarriage and everything. I am now splitting up with my partner of 23 years (not my choice) and my mum has been to see me once in all the time - she never phones etc.

Anyway, I read those books referred to - they are v helpful, and also started counselling this week (poor counsellor I don't think he could shut me up once I started!). i think the key is probably to accept you cant change your mother, you can only change your expectations of her so it doesn't upset you so much. Like you my biggest aim is to avoid repeating this pattern with my own children.

[Iloveautumn]

Atillathemeerkat - thank you..... you have made me cry...
I have always felt like I was complaining over nothing so it feels a relief for someone to say what you have said.

My brother's relationship with my mum is similar, we have talked aobut it off and on over the years and he sees her in the same way. The difference is that he is a born again christian and has a big church family and so I don't think feels the loneliness in the way I do.

I think you are spot on about my mum being self-absorbed and narcissistic. I need to think about why I let my dad off the hook - I think it is because he does relate to me slightly more than my mother so I feel slightly more close to him although he has never been there for me either. I can't think of any event that could happen in my life where I would or could turn to either of my parents for help and support

Re what to do about them.... I think about this a lot too. Basically we live about 25 miles from them and see them maybe once every couple of months. They may come to see us twice a year maybe. The reality is that I actually don#t like being with my mother - she just is not capable of the relationship I would want with a mother. But cutting them out would require too much emotional energy and the repercussions for my relationship with my brother and also my children not seeing them at all. No, I think on balance I just need to accept this is how it is....

Thanks for the references, I will have a look at those books.

Thank you, you are very kind...

[Iloveautumn]

Beattiebow - how awful for you I hope you have friends you can lean on.
Have you found counselling helpful? My worry with counselling is that I would just end up getting more and more angry about it and really there is nothing I can change, it just isn't how I want it to be..
I'm sad for you but feel relieved that there is someone else out there with the same sort of mother, it isn't just me!

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

(((((Iloveautumn)))))

I did not intend to make you cry, oh bless you.

I also have experience unfortunately of dealing with dysfunctional inlaws and parents hence my writings. Also have first hand experience of having a NPD relative which is to us like watching car crash tv in slow mo.

Re your comment:-
"But cutting them out would require too much emotional energy and the repercussions for my relationship with my brother and also my children not seeing them at all. No, I think on balance I just need to accept this is how it is...."

No you do not have to accept this is how it is. You would not tolerate such crap from a friend. your parents are no different in that regard.

Do you think your children will get anything positive from seeing either of your parents?. You do not and they will not treat your children any better because they happen to be their grandchildren. Their GM in particular may well try and play off one against the other, she will use them a narc supply or choose favourites not just to mention she and he making nasty comments about you to them. Such toxic dysfunction seeps down the generations; it is down to you as their parents to protect your children from such toxic influences. They will thank you for doing so ultimately.

Do give all this some more thought and keep posting either here or on "well we took you to Stately Homes".

You cannot have any form of relationship with a narcissist; it is simply not possible and it does not work. They have themselves made the terrible choice not to love.

Do read the books and website mentioned. Would also recommend seeing a counsellor. Counsellors however, are like shoes so you need to find someone who fits in with you.

[Iloveautumn]

Thanks attilla - I do need to think about what you've said. I was going to write that my mum is not openly horrible to me. But I have realised that she tends to indirectly have a snide go at me when talking to other people. Not in an open way because she does not do confrontation at all.
The worst thing is the way she seems to reject my children.... I do sometimes wonder if she actually bears animosity to me and so it is a way of indirectly rejecting me....

I think maybe counselling would be a good idea. It will have to wait til dc older I think.
I'll read those books and then post on the thread you've reffed to.
Thank you again. I'm sorry that you speak from personal experience....

[fiventhree]

Iloveautum

My mum too, AND including the miscarriage.

I am not bothered now- at 51, though I was in my early twenties and thirties. And anyway, she is dead, and my father died much earlier.

I did eventually talk about it with a counsellor- it was some help, possibly.

However, I finally came to the conclusion that I could offer back what I got- irregular contact, surface relationship etc. I concentrated on my own life and family. She was never going to change, and actually she couldnt. She didnt have the life or other experience to do so. She was from a large family, and a twin, and a girl amongst many boys, with an expectation of being looked after, though they were also very poor, and the father was a terrible spender and drinker.

I actually came to have some sympathy, in fact, that she raised her kids alone, albeit badly, and constantly telling us how everyone else thought she was amazing not to have put us in a home. I recently found out that her brothers had been temporarily put in a home themselves when she and her twin brother were born, and very underweight, in the 1930s.

The trouble for us all is that people can be what they can be, and what they are from has a big influence. Some people cant change, it doesnt even occur to them, and they dont see others, and they dont see all of their responsibilities or many of their effects on others.

Concentrate on getting the support you need whilst your children are young from friends and anywhere else you can afford to buy it in. And dont be too hard on yourself in your own life- it is tempting to always do better, or criticize your own parenting, etc etc. You dont need to put yourself through that. Do your best, and forgive yourself the rest. Yes , live well, and try to be happy, accepting the situation which you cannot change.

Poor you, though, three kids. I once had three under 5 and a couple of teenagers and a job, and a fairly ropey husband, so I know it isnt easy. x

[fiventhree]

There is animosity, I imagine, she resents you for managing your life better than she did. Think on!

[blossom123]

You know Iloveautumn you could be talking about my mum, even down to the MC, she actually refused to drive me to the hospital because she was too busy. I was totally alone. I had counselling some years ago and talked this though, it gave me strength actually sit her down to tell her how badly she had treated over the years. She of course she was in denial but on the positive side after that point things began to improve, she is still selfish and judgemental but she certainly has improved and is a far better grandparent than a mother, if that makes sense. Would you have the courage to tell your mum how you feel, it is rather liberating

[OlderNotWiser]

In a rush so only a brief reply - but just wanted to say my mum is similar. I have found that counselling helped. But really,the main thing for me was really to learn to accept her for what she is. My mum does love me, Im sure of that, but she is not loving IYKWIM. So now I expect nothing from her and no longer get disappointed. You need to somehow get to a similar level of detachment. I call her a lot, no longer fret that she doenst ring, I just know she wont, so I do it instead and we do actually get on better for greater (tho still detached) contact. But would never ever bother to call her for support. My mates are for that. I really hope you can find a way to similalry detach and no longer let her inadequacies upset you

[HoudiniHissy]

I've recently realised there is a similar dynamic with me and my mum. Won't bore you with it all now, but I've got a meeting with a therapist and will discuss it with her and see what she has to say wrt coping/coming to terms with it all. If there is anything that can be helpful to us here, I'll post it!

Main thing she said was to stop 'expecting' them to rise to our expectations. That we ARE entitled to feel upset, angry and every other emotion, but that we need to stop facilitating them, stop giving them the space to let us down.

When I know more, I'll come back and post.

Till then ((((hugs)))) to you OP, and all those that need them!

[Iloveautumn]

fiventhree - thank you!!

I think you may be spot on with your last post... My dh has said he thinks she's jealous of me and maybe that is part of it...

It's good to hear that you now feel ok about this and actually I do feel less upset about it than I did when I was younger. I think because I now have my dh and my kids and I'm not alone anymore.

Most of the time I do live well and I am so happy - I love being a mum so much, partly I think because I have created my own family and I am making it be the way I want a family to be. It's just when things happen like with my leg and I suddenly feel that I am alone again and it hurts....

Thank you again, your post has really helped me. God - 5 kids, a job and a crap husband!!! How did you survive!!!

[blossom123]

Oh and someone mentioned about not making the same mistakes with your own kids, I tend to be the opposite almost over compensating if that make any sense.

[hellymelly]

My Mum has some very similar traits to yours- she never seems very interested in me and only talks about me as a small child.Sometimes I think it sounds as though I died at 6. She talks at length about herself but doesn't listen TO A WORD i BLOODY WELL SAY. So I can sympathise completely with you. My Mum didn't see dd until she was six months old as she wasn't talking to me at the time and couldn't put that aside to visit her daughter in hospital (I was in for 10 days) with her new baby.So it is very hard,I know. The only thing that has helped me is the detatchment that I had to develop when my daughter was born, I was so upset that I made a choice to focus more on my daughter/s than my mum. I also find it easier to forgive her things now as she is so elderly and frail (she is 80,I 've had my dds in my 40's) She seems so vulnerable that I let a lot of things go and don't get (as) upset. she is also very sweet to my dds when she sees them,so that helps quite a bit. I do think a measure of detatchment is key though.Try and accept she may never change,may never be the loving mother you woul like,but you can be that mother to your own children,and have that unconditional love with them.

[fiventhree]

Iloveautum

She is probably jealous. And also, she is probably looking at how you have coped to date, and thinking about herself in relation to that, which is making her very uncomfortable about her own failings. She gets your dad on the phone whenever there is a problem because she would have to say something real, and she cant, even something small- she has programmed herself to head off trouble as a gut reaction before she even thinks. She probably chose your dad because she could hide behind him too.

I dont doubt you feel better now than in the past. But you do have alot on your plate at the moment, and it is in these moments that the resentment comes back. Partly it is the lack of practical help, and partly it is the simple NOT CARING.

So you need to learn to care about yourself. And if that is difficult for you, and you are full of self doubt, fundamentally, then you do need to get help or counselling.

So, eg you should be able to say to yourself, even when you have fucked something up, that you are a worthwhile person and deserving of love and affection. Because you are. And extra credit to you too, because you are already not her!

[BeattieBow]

I think she is jealous as well (my mum certainly is). My mum is interested in my children in an overly showy way - but when it comes to the crunch she doesn't make any effort to see them. And she is more interested in the boys, and the younger ones. She also made a comment in their hearing about how pretty one of my dds is. she used to do the same to me and my sister when we were children.

I've only seen the counsellor once so far (and also have my H to speak about too - too many issues),but he did say that it didn't matter whether I was being accurate (it is very important to me that someone agrees with how I feel and that I am not being wrong in my assertions about my mother) because that's how I feel that that's whats important.

I found it very cathartic actually talking about it to a neutral person - yet to see if he comes up with advice etc.

[Iloveautumn]

Thanks everyone who has posted - apologies I haven't been able to get back on - dh had taken kids out yesterday, but they came back...! I find it very hard to get online when everyone's home and then when they're in bed I'm knackered!!! Anyway, I'll try to respond to everyone because every single post has really helped me and I'm so grateful to everyone for taking the time to write to me.

Blossom123 - am v impressed you did actually talk to your mum and pleased for you that it improved things. I don't think I will ever be able to talk to my mum - it is so absolutely ingrained in her not to have any "real" conversation, especially if it involves confrontation, that she is just not capable of it.
When I confronted her about her refusal to babysit my 1st ds and the fact they never made any effort to see him, she didn't really say anything, apart from denying she ever said it, and then just got my dad to talk to me.

fiventhree, I really think you've got it right with what you said - She gets your dad on the phone whenever there is a problem because she would have to say something real, and she cant, even something small- she has programmed herself to head off trouble as a gut reaction before she even thinks. She's just so far detached from real life and real relationships that I just don't actually think she is capable of having a real conversation. She just talks at people and expresses her opinions, she doesn't listen at all.

When I'm with her I just feel paralysed - she's so adept at living on the surface that I just don't feel capable of saying anything real to her, it doesn't feel possible... I don't know if that makes sense??

Oldernotwiser - thanks for your insight - yes, I think you're right about not expecting anything and being more detached. I did feel that I'd got to the point of being able to be detached from it, but I think it's because I've been in a vulnerable, needy, situation over the last few weeks and that has just brought all my old feelings back.

Fiventhree, again you're spot on that it is the lack of practical help but mostly the basic lack of caring that has upset me at a time when I'm vulnerable. It is just hard to come to terms with your own parents just not bottomline caring about you...

If nothing else, I think it's made me realise I could do with some counselling at some point.

HoudiniHissi, it would be great if you would share anything useful you get from your therapist. I agree, I think I need to stop hoping that one time I'll actually get what I need from them.....

Hellymelly - Lol at it sounds like you died when you were 6!!!! That is exactly it with my mum.
Im glad it sounds like you've come to terms with it now your mum is old and frail. I do think about that scenario and I worry that I will still harbour so much dislike and anger towards her that I would deliberately neglect her to hurt her I guess that in itself suggests counselling may be a good idea!!

Beattiebow - that's an interesting point about it not mattering whether you are accurate or not - it's how you feel that is important. I think i overblow every little thing with my mum because it comes on the back of a whole lifetime of emotional neglect - so then every missed phone call becomes about my whole life, not just that particular situation. I then worry that other people would think I am just completely overreacting.

fiventhree - you are so spot on... thank you so much for taking time to give me your insights!!!!

Thanks so much everyone....

Some more thoughts I've had about my mum, in case it helps anyone else. Part of the problem I think is that her parents perceived her to be a weak and sickly child and it sounds as if she was completely overprotected by them and treated like a little princess. So I think she was never allowed to be hurt by anything or upset by anything. I also think she felt overwhelmed by the attention of her parents and part of her neglect of us is that she doesn't like to have to answer to anyone or have to have regular contact with anyone becuase I think she finds it too demanding.

[hellymelly]

I suppose I had a shift from feeling angry all the time with my mother,so feeling sorry for her.She had a very difficult childhood,she lost her Dad at five, and she clearly wants to be loved but she talks and talks about herself ,and doesn't ever really connect with anyone else.I did once say to her (after half an hour of a monologue from her on the 'phone,not one question about me)"Mama you make me feel as though you aren't interested in me at all" but she was just defensive and it didn't make any difference. I think she would have liked a close mother/daughter relationship and resents me for her not having that,rather than looking at why it isn't the case.

[Iloveautumn]

hellymelly - I do wonder that with my mum - ie if part of her neglect is that being with me or talking to me just makes her realise she doesn't have a proper relationship with me and she can't handle feeling proper emotions so she just avoids me.
So, on some level I think she is aware that things are badly wrong between us but she is just not willing or capable of doing anything about it - or maybe she doesn't even want to, it is safer not having to feel anything...

The thing about talking and talking and not connecting - I had a guy do some tiling for me who had done loads of work for my parents - I commented to my mum about how amazing it was that his partner has 9 children and she was really surprised and said she didn't know...... It just made me realise she is like that with everyone - she does not listen or ask questions, she just talks at people. She is exhausting to be with because she just doesn't stop.

[hellymelly]

Yes,maybe it is a sort of safety mechanism,its along the lines of putting your fingers in yours ears and singing "la la la LAAAa"...

[LesserOfTwoWeevils]

No helpful advice,OP, just wanted you to know I'm another one who knows exactly what it's like. Refrigerator mother, ED in my teens: her response was "What are you trying to do to me?"
When I split up with the father of my DSs, she said, "Oh well, you were always difficult to live with," and then pretended that was a joke.

[Fuzzywuzzywozabear]

I could have written your post OP

I always thought (hoped?) that if something "big" happened they'd step up and be there for me. Then the "big" thing DID happen - I got cancer...they didn't step up

(eg. my mother wouldn't speak to me when she was told by my dad as SHE was too upset)

Try reading this book - it helped me immensely - I have read it several times now

www.amazon.co.uk/If-You-Had-Controlling-Parents/dp/0060929324/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329303279&sr=8-1&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

I then had counselling to help me come to terms with how they are and it's the best money I ever spent - good luck OP

[fiventhree]

It is about taking responsibility. They dont. They wont. Perhaps they cant.

But children of these sorts of parents can end up taking on too much responsibility for too many others, and not getting the support they need for themselves. They have grown up to it. Obviously, I mean 'we', not 'they.'

[ContraryMartha]

Another one who could have written your post OP.
I was actually a very affectionate child, yearning for a relationship with my parents and I remember saying "I love you" to my mother once.
A look of discomfort flicked across her face and she smiled awkwardly before leaving the room.
Awful.

But...
She grew up in a house where there was domestic violence and would often be forced to intervene between her parents. Her mother would run into her room and beg her to "make him stop hitting me".

I try to look at it that my mother did better than her mother. And I will do better than my mother. And on it goes...
I know it sounds simplistic, but she is almost 70 now and I know she won't change. And anyway, what I needed from her back then can't be given now...

It bothers me less now that I have DCs.
And I tell them I love them all the time, every day and they say it back.

Also, I am pleased you have people in your life who are stepping up for you. FWIW you sound like a very nice person.

[Lemonylemon]

Oh good grief. This thread. There are so, so many of us with mums/parents like this. OP, I could have written your post. My Mum is hopeless. My sister and I are picking things apart and getting down to the nitty gritty of our situation. Attila mentioned the book "Children of Self Absorbed Parents" This is actually both my parents to a tee - just half the points are relating to my Mum and half to my late Dad. Fuzzy My Mum reacted the same way to some pretty bad stuff that happened to me.

(((((((for all of us))))))))))