Constantly arguing with DH about work...what to do

[TwigletMonster]

DH works in a family company, and its a constant source of tension for us. He's been working a fair way from home for about 18 months, so driving for about 1hr 30, doing a full day then driving home. He's up early, never sees the DCs in the morning, and is home to see them for up to an hour at bedtime. So he's out of the house for 12 hours per day. He does work hard, but his commitment to his company is causing big problems for us.

Recently, I found out he's soon going to be working closer to home, for a short period. So, a 30 min round trip instead of 3 hours. Yippee, I thought, for a few months he'll be around for a bit more of the DCs day. But, silly me, what this actually means is that he'll work for an extra hour a day. He's never been to pre-school, missed all the pre-school christmas plays, and worked on both the DCs birthdays (despite promising not too).

I'm fuming. He already works 8 hours/day, plus breaks and travel time, and has meetings at weekends.

The issue is that I feel that DH puts work above us. It makes me really cross, and I don't know how to get past that. Last year, he had 1 week off. It is a family firm, but it's not tiny, there are people that can cover for him, if it's planned properly.

I think my main concern is that the situation always gets worse, not better. So, holiday has progressively got less, and hours have got longer. I view this as poor planning, and choosing to be at work rather than fighting to be at home more. There is also a macho culture at this firm, where taking time off is seen as 'letting the side down'. It's bollocks. I'm not prepared to go on like this, but he won't see my point of view at all.

I feel really sad, desperate and angry about it. I'm not prepared to sit by whilst his company get to call the shots and demand more of his time, especially whilst DCs are so small.

Does anyone have any advise? I think we might need to go to Relate about it, as it really has become a (very angry) stalemate

[TwigletMonster]

Crikey, that's long. Hope someone can stick with my ramblings long enough to offer some advise.

[AttillaTheMum]

Could there be a financial issue you are not aware of and he is working to pay for that?

[Merlotmonster]

12 hours a day (inc commute) is pretty standard where i work...any less hours done and people here are made to feel as though you are slacking.....sorry not very helpful, but maybe will help you see that these type of hours are not unusual

[kitsmummy]

Well with the 3 hour commute he's doing a 9 hour day, only an hour above 8-5 so not a crazy amount in itself, but I guess it's really down to where you thin his priorities really lie - if he genuinely needs to do these hours or if he's choosing to do them, for whatever reason.

In itself the hours really aren't too bad but you need a frank discussion with him about his motivation.

[TadlowDogIncident]

I'm more worried by the not taking holiday, and never turning up for family things, than the hours - 12 hours including commute isn't terribly unusual, but only taking 1 week's holiday a year is, and not turning up for school events or your DCs birthdays is pretty poor.

Perhaps you need to separate out the issues a bit: it's perfectly reasonable to want him to prioritise family over work sometimes, and to take holiday, but perhaps not to expect him to shorten his hours routinely. I think Relate or similar might be a good idea.

Is it that he wants to be at home but can't challenge the working culture, or that he doesn't really want to be at home and is using the job as an excuse? If it's the former, would he consider changing job? Small family firms can be great, but when they're bad they're dreadful IMO: challenging the culture in any firm is hard, but when it's a small closed circle of people it's impossible.

[TwigletMonster]

I'm pretty sure it's not financial - he doesn't get paid overtime or anything like that. The firm are doing ok as they haven't had to lay anyone off or anything similar.

Merlot I know it's not long hours compared to some people. I think it's more that, his commute has reduced for a while, and rather than taking the opportunity to spend a bit more time at home, he's taking it as an opportunity to work more. Everything goes in favour of the company. Already, new weekend meetings this year mean he's spending 3 days less with the DC over the course of a year. I would have taken this temporary reduction in commute as an opportunity to redress that balance, at least in part.

[OriginalJamie]

I think some men get into this habit. They don't see what they are missing, and have the perfect excuse to not change anything. As a Sahm it's easy to feel we have no " leverage", as well.

I agree with Tadlow

[OriginalJamie]

How involved is he with the family at the weekends?

[historyrepeats]

I don't see what is wrong with the 12 hour days (pretty common including my DP). Again as long as one parent can attend school stuff then I would have thought thats ok. When DP on holiday then yes that should be holiday.

Do you work? DP is working, I think you mainly need to get on with it.

[Merlotmonster]

agree, it would be a great opportunity to use the shorter commute in order to see the family more......Do you think its the culture at the firm thats making him work for such long hours??

[LesserOfTwoWeevils]

How does he actually feel about spending so little time with your DCs?
How he is with them when he is around?

[historyrepeats]

The holiday thing, yes thats not on. DCs birthdays, he should say he will be off if can't/won't be.

[silverbay]

I don't know many men who attend all pre-school plays, most families are lucky if one parent can make it.

[historyrepeats]

TBH it will be more of an issue when they are older if they are just pre-schoolers right now.

[bibbitybobbityhat]

The biggest issue is only taking 1 week off as holiday.

My dh is self employed and it is really difficult to persuade him to take time off. I generally book a 2 week holiday in the summer and tell him that this is when we are going away, but he won't take a full week off at any other time in the year.

I think you need to put your foot down over this issue in particular op. Even if the company has a yawnsome macho long hours culture (like so many others do) they can't possibly object if he takes up to 20 days off p/a?

[bibbitybobbityhat]

I think taking your dr birthdays off is a nonsense though, surely?

[bibbitybobbityhat]

Dc not dr!

[TwigletMonster]

Ah right, what I have obviously failed to say, is it's a family firm of which he is part of the family! So the changes of leaving are slim to none. We have talked about it, but it would involve me going back to work full-time, and a possible family rift.

Weekends he is great - the odd thing for himself here and there, but he is around all of the weekend (when not at meetings once/month).

The holiday thing is a biggie. So, while if he took a normal amount of holiday ordinarily, I wouldn't care about DCs birthdays. But last year, holiday became a massive issue, and so when it came to the end of the year (birthday time in this house) he promised to make up for it by having the days off.

In fact I think you've all summed it up really - if he took a normal amount of holiday I think the long(ish) days would be fair enough. I should imagine he things I nag horribly about holiday, and I do, because I don't know what else to do.

But, as holiday has reduced year-on-year, then working hours are longer. So, from my point of view, all I see if less and less time spent with the DC, and never anything back in our favour.

I've just started back at work part-time too, and last year was pretty stressful. I just saw it as an opportunity for a bit of a breather for 8 weeks or so.

I do understand there's a few problems with the economy and wot-not, but there are ALWAYS going to be challenges for small firms. No point holding out for 'jam tomorrow' as they say.

So, then I need a strategy to put my foot down over holiday, as bibbity has said. Any ideas how? I have tried many things unsuccessfully, including the less-diginified approaches such as shouting and crying.

[TadlowDogIncident]

Well, in extremis you could take holidays with the DCs, and maybe a friend or another member of your family, but without him. Say more or less that you want to have a holiday with him, but that if he won't come, you're not going to hang about at home wishing he'd take time off.

What does he say about all this? Does he see it as a short-term problem because of the terrible economy etc, or does he just want to be at work all the time?

I really think this might be one for Relate if you can't talk about it without shouting or crying and he thinks you're nagging when you quite reasonably say that you want him to come on holidays with you. Would he go?

[RandomMess]

I remember you posting about this last year (I assume it was you identical situation)

I think you sit down with the calendar and he tells you which 4 x 1 weeks he's going to have off. You then ring the office and book him in for that leave. Then book holiday and email the office - everyone to say the holidays are booked they must arrange cover end of.

How would it go down with the family if you were that ballsy about it?

[TwigletMonster]

I don't think he wants to be at work, but I think he doesn't want to be the one to stick his neck out and say he's having 20 days off. I think the implication from the others would be that he's not committed enough. Which is think is bollocks.

The others don't have children at home, and they are a very hard-working family. Some of them are suffering stress-related health problems. It's ridiculous.

[RandomMess]

Well if he booked the time off to conicide with bank holidays - it wouldn't even be 20 days leave.

Can you get him to agree to finish on time early one set day per week to see the dc once he starts at this nearer location?

[TwigletMonster]

Hi Random yes I did post about it last year, and I ended up going away with some of my family and the children without DH. He eventually took a week off in November. So for the whole YEAR it was an underlying issue.

Sometimes I am tempted to ring the office. But I don't think that would go down at all well. It would be deemed meddling.

I am going to designate tomorrow as holiday booking night. No-one is watching telly until it's sorted. Hopefully.

[TwigletMonster]

So what do we think is reasonable?

At the moment, he is saying 17 days. I don't know why. I am tempted to go for 20 on the basis that he is now doing extra weekend meetings, so some of it is time off in lieu for those, rather than actual holiday.

[Hassled]

No sensible advice, but a lot of sympathy. My Ex was like this - just never took holidays, work was everything. I worked FT too, but it was always somehow more flexible, less important. I was sufficiently bitter about it that now, many many years later (we're still friends) he'll mention taking time off and I'll still bristle and think "you wouldn't fucking do that when me and the kids needed it).

Just keep plugging away - keep at him. Your collective quality of life has to be a priority. Is there anyone in the family who might be sympathetic if you had a quiet word - his mother?