My feed
Premium

Please
or
to access all these features

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

MNHQ have commented on this thread

Relationships

Possible mumsnet campaign on domestic abuse??

267 replies

NettleTea · 14/12/2011 21:33

The report out today regarding the possible changes in the law regarding domestic violence has spawned a great deal of debate, both in the media and on several forums/closed FB groups.
There are a couple of links [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8948620/Bullies-face-prosecution-in-domestic-violence-crackdown.html here] and [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16175167 here] which give the background.
Some of you may be aware that one of our regular posters spoke on radio 5 live this morning - you can hear her [http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b017wygq here] at about 1 hour 24 mins under the pseudonym of 'Susie' as she tells her story, and how Mumsnet was a lifeline for her. Earlier today I wrote to Mumsnet Towers to see whether we might rally their support in campaigning for this issue, especially given Mumsnet's role in helping women to identify that they are in abusive relationships, to support them if they decide to leave and to offer advice and further support as they go through that difficult process. One of the most devastating aspects of being in an abusive relationship which isnt violent is the gradual erosion of the woman's (or men's, I acknowledge that its not gender specific) self esteem and trust in her own judgement, and the shifting sands of what constitutes normality, and that is often where MN comes in, helping to identify a relationship which is abusive when nobody is getting physically hurt. The comments on the Telegraph thread above, (although not as frustrating as those in the daily mail) clearly show how misunderstood emotional abuse is, and I feel that MN and particularly MN members who are living it, and have been through it, really have voices that should be heard.
MN Towers suggested I start a thread here to see the amount of support out there for their contribution to the ongoing discussions, and whether we feel that this is a campaign that they should get behind, and in what form it would best take place, so thoughts please....

OP posts:
Report
NettleTea · 14/12/2011 21:34

oops. links didnt work
There are a couple of links here and here which give the background.
Some of you may be aware that one of our regular posters spoke on radio 5 live this morning - you can hear her here at about 1 hour 24 mins under the pseudonym of 'Susie' as she tells her story, and how Mumsnet was a lifeline for her.

OP posts:
Report
Tortington · 14/12/2011 21:40

what are we campaigning for - to criminalise ?

Report
Tortington · 14/12/2011 21:41

anyway - if so

government-backed definition agreed in 2004 which refers to "any incident of threatening behaviour, violence or abuse (psychological, physical, sexual, financial or emotional) between adults who are or have been intimate partners or family members, regardless of gender or sexuality


that sounds ok to me - why is cleg fucking about - get on with it man - consultation my arse you limelight grabbing slimy backstabbing cunt

Report
babyhammock · 14/12/2011 21:41

Count me in x

Report
NotSuchASmugMarriedNow · 14/12/2011 21:43

I'M in too, and happy to talk to the media any time, anonymously or not.

Report
BertieBotts · 14/12/2011 21:46

I'd support this 100%. I've been reading the comments on some of the newspaper reports and it's making me feel both angry, and defeated. :(

Thanks for linking to the Radio 5 interview :)

Report
Prolesworth · 14/12/2011 21:46

I support this too

Report
NettleTea · 14/12/2011 21:49

i think that is the question - possibly campaigning to raise awareness of what emotional abuse actually is and how it manifests?- I am guessing that the legal side of it is going to be dealt with and discussed by the big groups and government. I am looking at the role MN plays - there seems to be a huge number of threads on here, and over the years, which have obviously had a major part to play in helping people get out. That seems to be the MN forte. Maybe it should be about bringing in education about domestic abuse into sex education. Maybe it should be openly publicising and public awareness of the 'red flags' or that list which appeared on this forum every now and again - the 'listen up' thread. I think thats what this thread is doing. im by no means an expert, but it seems that the number of threads is rising and rising where people are in EA relationships.
TBH Im not exactly sure WHAT I am asking here Blush but there are alot of voices here, alot of experiences which have helped people, alot of people who understand it and if their voices could either help someone start to seek help to get out, or educate people to know what to look for when starting a relationship, then that would be a good thing.

OP posts:
Report
BertieBotts · 14/12/2011 21:49

I mean, WTF, even links on this site... Bad form probably, don't care, too angry.

Report
NettleTea · 14/12/2011 21:56

Sorry, custardo, several posts between your question and my answer...

I agree the law is there already, but it seems its only being half heartedly taken up and only in relation to violence. This seems to be focussing more on emotional abuse which in many ways is far more destructive and very difficult to actually pin down, especially if you have been isolated, gaslighted, and had your perception of normality warped. Anything which raises the awareness and raises the bar for younger girls going into their first relationships (which is an area highlighted by this) is essential if the kinds of thinking which is represented by some of the comments on those DM and telegraph articles is to change.
Perhaps something as simple as the 'Listen Up Creed' (can someone link this please, as MN towers will be checking this thread) plus a copy of Lundy's book in every school library......

OP posts:
Report
AlwaysWild · 14/12/2011 21:59

Adding support

(And wtf is that thread you linked to doing on MN Bertie - that is appalling Angry)

Report
ElfenorRathbone · 14/12/2011 22:00

I'd support a campaign to educate and deal with it properly.

One of the worst aspects, is that perpetrators are perceived to have anger management problems and instead of being sent to prison, are sent on anger management programmes,w hen in fact they have no difficulty whatever in managing their anger - they only every inflict it on those over whom they have power.

Report
Tortington · 14/12/2011 22:06

"...Changes to domestic violence law which are being proposed would be far-reaching.
Currently there is no specific criminal offence of domestic violence ? ..."


--
someone explain this to me - theres a law but no criminal offence?

what the actual fuck does that mean?

Report
Tortington · 14/12/2011 22:08

also

there is no clarity here. what are you asking support to DO exactly

Report
ElfenorRathbone · 14/12/2011 22:11

It means that people can get done for things like common assault, GBH etc. Custy.

But not specifically DV.

Same as with forced marriage - you can get done for kidnap, assault etc - but not forced marriage per se.

Report
ElfenorRathbone · 14/12/2011 22:12

Because they aren't crimes. They 're covered by other laws. Sorry am being incoherent ton ight

Report
NettleTea · 14/12/2011 22:12

I am having a wild guess that it means that the law is an ass. and domestic issues are dealt with according to what happens. I know my ex put his gf in hospital and she pressed charges. It wasnt a charge of DV it had to be ABH/GBH. and if they keep harrassing you then its stalking or you get a non molestation order. but theres no specific law to prosecute someone on for being a general abusive bastard unless they whack you or rape you???? even though they include all those aspects of domestic abuse which you mentioned earlier, like financial abuse/emotional abuse???

OP posts:
Report
struwelpeter · 14/12/2011 22:16

Am totally behind raising awareness through a MN campaign.
That thread linked above is disgusting I assume Bertie linked it because it made her so Angry
The legal position is not something any of us here can influence, but we can be instrumental in opening up the debate and getting the whole subject of abuse in relationships discussed in schools.
Whatever Clegg's motives, this is an issue that needs to be talked about. All the media attention on abuse and information campaigns still show variations on blackeyes, but as someone somewhere on MN pointed out before the blackeyes happen there is almost certainly a high level of non-physical abuse as well.

Report
BertieBotts · 14/12/2011 22:18

Okay, well, this is what I'd do, if I was hundreds of people at once and had millions of pounds.

  • Set up programmes in every single school, church and youth group about respect in relationships. Abuse happens in cycles. Catch the next generation before they fall into the patterns of the previous one and you are onto something.


  • Ensure proper, adequate, secure support for women and children, (and men, in fact currently this is lacking) fleeing domestic violence. Enough places for every person who needs one. Proper, full, integrated support for these support systems. Social workers should not be threatening mothers with having their children taken into care if they don't leave, they should have the time, money, knowledge and resources to support women to leave with their children. Health visitors, GPs, police, family law solicitors, court workers and mediation officers should also have an understanding of the mechanics of abuse. Come on, we know enough about it, we have enough information, it would not (should not?) be too difficult to implement. If not all of them, then at least one DV specialist in each department.


Again, this interrupts the cycle, ensuring children have an option to get out, hopefully before picking up the damaging relationship templates. Following on from this...

  • In depth, accessible (group?) counselling offered free of charge, or for a nominal fee, to women and children who have suffered DV in order to break the thought process and help them go on to avoid abusive relationships or abusive behaviours in future.


  • Perpetrator programmes rolled out across the country (slightly cynical about this one, sadly, but if it works for even a fraction, then maybe it's worth it)


  • Tightening of laws regarding removal of abusive partners from the home, meaning less strain on refuge services. A massive shake up of the family court and CAFCASS system which at the moment puts the emphasis on children having a relationship with both parents above all else, even when this puts the child at risk of harm or has been proven to cause distress. Break the cycle. Stop exposing children to abuse.


  • Stop the whole normalisation of controlling/manipulative/plainly abusive behaviours as romantic, or caring, or masculine. Just No!


  • Stop cutting decent, useful services like sure start which were actually making a difference to the lives of many disadvantaged and vulnerable people, not all of whom are disadvantaged or appear to be vulnerable. At times of national stress, DV goes up, people have less options, the effects are worse and more long lasting.
Report
Alambil · 14/12/2011 22:19

Would it be "easier" for MN to support Refuge's "Let's start a conversation" campaign?

Report
NettleTea · 14/12/2011 22:20

There is no clarity because this thread is open to ask in what way we would like support to help, if they think it's something they want to do. Its such a big and wide reaching subject that opinions are being sought to clarify exactly which aspect is thought of as most important and most relevent to the mN posters who feel strongly about this subject. I agree its woolly. I agree its not thought out and coherant. There have been real people out there on the radio and in the press today who have said that without places like MN they would never have been able to get out, that MN saved their lives and their sanity. That makes what MN has to offer an important factor in helping some people. MN has a big profile. MN has helped to bring things to the table in discussions, to put the experiences of real people out there. 1 in 4 women suffering from domestic abuse at some point in their life is a horrifying number. Some agencies say its the tip of the iceberg. So the question I am asking here, cos I freel admit I dont have a precise remit atm, is what message would we like them to represent us with if they feel there are enough of us asking for them to speak for us?

OP posts:
Report
Alambil · 14/12/2011 22:22

Bertie, the Freedom Programme is free and "in depth" etc - they're just not publicised with venue details. Local Children's Centres should know where the nearest one is and have the phone details for the women to self-refer (which is the preferred method of accessing the service)

Report
BertieBotts · 14/12/2011 22:24

In order of importance from my post:

  1. Refuge provision/education of professionals
  2. Laws
  3. Youth/teen work
  4. Counselling
  5. Sure start
  6. Perpetrator programmes


(the normalisation one is too nonspecific to include really, how would you even go about it, an ad campaign?)
Report
BertieBotts · 14/12/2011 22:25

Freedom programme isn't free, isn't always accessible if you have small children and no childcare, and isn't in every area, though. Though I do support that hugely. If that could be rolled out everywhere, that would be great.

Report
NettleTea · 14/12/2011 22:26

Lewisfan - MN does support refuge, and also other agencies when they feel that their time and backing would be better served by assisting expert agencies. Their recent sexual education survey gave a resounding 'yes' to the question of whether issues regarding consent and violence should be taught in school, and this has been passed onto the relevent dept.
However, they say themselves that this topic has caught their radar and they are openminded about it and giving serious consideration as to what the best contribution they (and MN members) can make. This is why they would like to guage MNers feelings about it.

OP posts:
Report
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.