In this hypothetical scenario, should responsibility be shared?

[fartingfran]

A couple in a very long term relationship are having problems. Over decades one partner has been repeatedly unreasonable. The other partner has tended to deal with these transgressions in a passive-aggressive fashion, huffing rather than discussing. This has bred resentment to which the unreasonable partner is oblivious.

Does the huffing one have some responsibility because they at no point laid down the law and made it clear what a huge problem the behaviour was causing? Should be unreasonable one be held wholly responsible despite the severity of their behaviour's effects never being made clear to them? If the unreasonable one has been genuinely naive how can they be held responsible for the resentment which only exists because the other partner has never truly addressed the issue?

And where to next? Or is that an end to it, by this stage?

[HecateQueenOfTheNight]

yes.

huffing and fuffing is not communicating and is as bad in its own way as out and out in your face unreasonableness.

tbh, they are both unreasonable. if you don't tell someone how you feel, that's your own fault.

However, unless the person is totally self absorbed, they must surely have some idea of behaviour that is likely to upset or annoy or be able in some small way to put themselves in the other person's position and it must occur to them that certain behaviours are not on, or they wouldn't like them if the positions were reversed?

so 50/50 in my book. You have a responsiblity to communicate, but equally you have a responsibility to consider others.

although, if you gave an example of actual incidents, I might change my mind

[fartingfran]

It's hypothetical though, innit?

Thanks for your thoughts.

[HecateQueenOfTheNight]

you could certainly give me a hypothetical example. Use your imagination.

[fartingfran]

I don't want to prejudice any responses, so will come back to that later ... once I've, er, thought of an example.

[fartingfran]

Ok.

Mum and dad are struggling. I've posted already about the EA it seems she's been having.

Dad spent years going out, getting pissed and spending what little he earned in the pub. Mum has therefore always been the main earner and pretty much solely responsible for keeping the home. She's now terribly bitter and as unhappy as ever. He's impossible too - simplistic, naive. He's trying to make it better but can't do right for doing wrong - and while mum understandably can't get over her bitterness, Dad also understandably struggles to get anywhere because his past (and current, albeit enabled by mum) shitness gets brought up constantly.

They need to go their separate ways I think. But mum also has to do less being wronged and more positive action-taking. And she won't. Which in a way is fine because dad's going to be an unspeakable mess without her to organise life for him.

Why wait until they're pushing sixty to start this crap? Madness.

[HecateQueenOfTheNight]

perhaps because they are 60.

and they are doing the whole "is this the rest of my life" reflecting? I will retire to this.
I will live like this until I die.

That sort of thing?

You have to let them get on with it. Tea and sympathy get you nowhere. In the end, you have to tell them, look, either piss or get off the pot.

[HecateQueenOfTheNight]

actually, I will pm you. I have some experience you may find useful but it is not for a public forum.

[newnamethistime]

I'd find it hard to imagine that she managed to bite her tongue all this time. In my experience, if someone is acting unreasonably, they tend to make it very difficult for the other to be heard.

It's not easy having a discussion with someone who's pissed often - it ends up in a row very easily (the attack being the best form of defense strategy) and often the other person just want things to go back to sober normality as quickly as possible - so bites their tongue and carries all the hurt.

I would not be heaping blame on the 'passive-aggressive' partner here - she has stuff she is upset about and it obviously is still not being dealt with properly.

[fartingfran]

Thanks Hec.

I know she's been dreadfully wronged. But the onus is therefore on her to decide what she wants and take it.

[timehealsall]

Think this is a pretty common cycle in an unhealthy relationship.

One person is unreasonable (over critical / agressive / drunk / negative - delete or not as appropriate). Acts oblivious to it because it's become the norm not to be challenged.

The other feels hamstrung and unable to clearly say what they feel because of fear of more criticism / agression, etc (with validity). That leads to passive agression / sulking / crticism in safe environment in front of others, etc.

The unreasonable partner then, on some level, knows that the other is unhappy but carries on with the totally misplaced justification that sulking, etc is not fair - they should say what's up if they're unhappy - so being frustrated is ok.

The hamstrung partner then feels even more hamstrung and gets even more upset / scared / trapped / helpless.

Continue ad nauseum until it becomes unbearable for one or the other (or probably both) - then mix in the practical and emotional head scramble of 2 people who used to love each other splitting up and neither being in the wrong and BOTH being the victim with lots at stake.

Presumably at some stage at the beginning of the relationship it wasn't that way so the cycle will have developed slowly over time and become ingrained. Imo that's what makes it so difficult to get out of. At some time presumably the communication was good / unthreatening / both partners wanted to make the other happy by listening and acting.

Are both responsible? Probably, but the unreasonable partner is, I think, commonly "more responsible" - in that cycle it feels like as time goes on the unreasonable partner feels like the one who has damaged the means of communication more.

But imo very wise thing to say "But mum also has to do less being wronged and more positive action-taking. And she won't."

[fartingfran]

Thanks very much for that post timehealsall. It makes a lot of sense.

You can lead a horse to water though ...

[timehealsall]

No worries - it is just a personal opinion and don't really know much about your specific situation, but based I guess on personal experience and a lot of counselling.

You're right about horses and water so my question would be if you've done the leading what are you going to do next?

Whatever it is this whole situation sounds horrible for you. So I hope you are also focusing on yourself and how you can cope and stay happy. It's lovely you feel for these people you love but when you can't help them help themselves (ifswim) it can get really frustrating and damaging for you - which in turn can have knock on effect on people around you. Please look after yourself and remember you are not responsible for what's happening here and you are trying to help.

It's only my opinion but basically I'd say at some point you have to kind of step out of the drama triangle and say "I love you and I want to support you but I can't keep listening to how upset you are when you don't want to do anything about it". I think you'd be within your rights to do that and it might even help.