For those with a narc mother (long, rambling)

[Odille]

I know I shouldn't expect any different from her. I'm here for a rant and a bit of hand-holding if I'm honest. It'd just be good to hear from others who actually understand what life with a narc mother is like. Also, any tips for support e.g. weblinks or books would be appreciated.

Backstory:
I'm basically middle aged but only realised my mother had narc traits in the past couple of years. I can now see the typical pattern of our relationship through childhood / adolescence / adulthood. I've recently become better at setting boundaries and actually walked out of her home after she said something particularly nasty. I'd done the "if you keep talking about me like that I'm leaving" threat and carried it through.

Anyway, I've just had a fight with her. Probably the first time I've spoken truthfully to her about my feelings if I'm honest (I've a very superficial relationship with her.) Basically, during my recent pg I have tried to have the typical mum/daughter experience that outsiders expect. Several times she has taken things that she knows I want to be kept private and told others. Last year it was a miscarriage, I have told only very close friends who I knew would be supportive, she has told the local gossipy types that ensure everyone knows (i.e. people who don't even know me.) I was very clear afterward and during the subsequent pg that the only message to give out to others is "Odille is fine, the baby is fine, give her a call if you want to chat (i.e. know more.) I was clear that I am private about certain things, that I'm telling her things I don't want spread any further. (I know. Why did I try?) So last week I gave birth and in a fog of morphine mentioned things that I would have normally kept private. And of course it's all out there and in Chinese whispers fashion has become more dramatic than the reality with people calling to hear about my "horrendous birth" - not in a supportive way but in a gossipy way. So, I'm annoyed with myself for mentioning any details, but also told her in no uncertain terms that I can't believe after all the previous conversations that she still won't accept that it's my decision to decide who knows what. She doesn't get it at all, actually said that she knew I'd have told C (my best friend since childhood who also gave birth recently) so it's hardly a secret. When I said that I want to concentrate on the happy event of having a baby rather than dissecting a birth story with random callers who last phoned to hear the gory details about the misc her response was "women like to know these things". She wouldn't accept that just because someone asks for details doesn't mean they have to be given. (She's told enough details that people are calling me to hear the rest.)

So, she's not talking to me (yes!) and I know I'll be painted as The Bad Daughter but as I've worn that crown so often that's fine.

My partner thinks I should just ignore it for a quiet life and behave as though nothing's happened. (That's his style for emotional stuff.) Her style is to not talk about things but seethe silently so she'll not mention it again. (E.g. she could ignore me for months on end as a child if I did the wrong thing, ignoring birthdays etc while she was annoyed and until I worked out what I'd done wrong and was suitably ostracised.)

Anyone else been there?
Thanks for reading.

[thisishowifeel]

Yes I know about this stuff.

My "mother" completely hijacked my first wedding, I didn't know and had never met a large proportion of the guests. Before or since! She'd given me a couple of hundred pounds to help pay for everything, and then changed her mind after the event to say it had been a loan, and insisted I reapy immediately. There are hundreds more examples like that.

She completely controlled my career.

She insisted in inviting EVERYONE from her office to my boyfriends parents Christmas party. I didn't know them and my boyfriend's parents CERTAINLY didn't.

Eventually these "foibles" became increasingly nasty and destructive. She was the "brains" behind the numerous custody battles that were launched against me, which I obviously had to defend in court, costing over twenty thousand pounds over the six years that she did it.

In the end, she drove my current DH and I to seperate as her two faced, triangulating, lying and scapegoating, labelling and manipulation just got us to the point that we didn't know what was going on, and who was telling the truth.

Pure Hell, and I have nothing whatever to do with her anymore, and never will ever again.

So yes, I understand your feelings completely....remember, you don't exist to her, you are merely a barbie doll for her to entertain herself with.

[FabbyChic]

I would change the scope of your relationship with her and treat her as hostile, i.e don't tell her anything you don't want others to know. Tell her you don't trust her and as such she won't be privy to any information that is private like a normal mother would.

[Odille]

During the argument she kept turning the conversation back to herself (of course) e.g. "I don't know what you want me to say". I asked repeatedly that she just tell me that she understood that it's up to me to decide to tell people this kind of detail or not, but she didn't get it, so I said my only option was to only tell he things that I was happy to be spread wide. She didn't get it.

My life exists for her to use for dramatic purposes... my misc - all about her. My pg - all about her. My childbirth - all about her. She is so worried... she is so upset....

I really do feel like "why bother"? Probably I bother because she trained me so well.

[mosschops30]

Im in this club too, although i am dealing with my mother much better now.
She pretends that it doesnt bother her by constantly telling me it doesnt and how lucky i am that she accepts i dont call her, or visit often, or ask her to come snd live nearby.
I do feel sorry for these women, but i suppose they have no insight so doesnt affect them.
I do treat her like one of the dcs mostly, i ignore bad behaviour and i follow through on any consequences.

My mother has also used my problems as a way to get sympathy OP, i think its a classic narc trait

[ScaredOfCows]

Another one who understands here. No easy way to cope, I've found, apart from distance - psychological or physical. Hardly ever speak on the phone now, and only see her for a couple of hours maybe once a month or less. The no phone calls thing started because I was being punished for some misdemeanor, and I just thought 'what the hell' and have carried it on myself ever since.

It hurts that I can't see my Dad more though, but she engineers things so that he can't see me without her, and either he doesn't realise, or he keeps quiet for the quiet life which I can appreciate even though I don't like it.

[MyHipsHurt]

I really do feel like "why bother"? Probably I bother because she trained me so well.

OP that has hit the nail on the head. My 'mother' also trained me exceptionally well. It's only in the last few years I cottoned on to her narc behaviour. I think when you have children yourself you begin to realise what a mother's love should be like and more importantly,what it should NOT be like.

Got to dash right now, but I totally understand where you're coming from..

[Odille]

MyHipsHurt

Thanks - you've identified why I felt the need to post. I'm a mother now myself. I have a great example of one 'mothering' style to avoid. It'd be good to hear from others how you dealt with a narc grandmother to your DCs.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Odille,

//www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com is a good website.

Some recommended books:-
"Children of the Self Absorbed"
"Will I ever be good enough" by Karyl McBride
"Toxic Parents" written by Susan Forward (the main subject matter is the dysfunctional family)

Your mother was probably made into such by her own parents.

I have a narc BIL (he cut us off when my DH refused to enable him) and my ILs both have degress of narcissisism as well (particularly FIL). I would avoid these people at all costs, a relationship with a narc is totally one sided and these people can be bloody awful to deal with and do your head in. Infact you cannot maintain a relationship with a narc, its just not possible as its all built on sand which always shifts. These people simply do not have any empathy nor any real opinion of their own.

[ScaredOfCows]

WRT narc grandmother to my children. My mother was a nice grandmother to them when they were little, albeit she used lots of passive aggressive tactics to get at me through them ie "don't do that or Mummy will shout at me", Mummy's always shouting at me, but you love me don't you?" etc etc.

During my childhood, I was too scared to contradict her or argue with her. However, our children have been raised to question, and we place importance and consideration on their opinions, so inevitably, when they questioned or disagreed with their grandmother, she didn't like it and it showed. Now, my oldest one is almost 20 and hasn't seen her grandmother for months. Grandmother often has a go at her, or talks about her in a less that pleasant way to her brother, which upsets him. Our youngest one (17) maintains a better relationship with his grandmother, but he wouldn't dream of visiting her without us, or phoning her for a chat.

Very sad.

[piranhamorgana]

And I'm another one. Totally understand what you are experiencing.

I suspect that total no contact - as thisis has done - is the only way to be completely free.However,I am currently not exercising this right as my dc want to see her from time to time .They have concerns about the stigma (to them) of "never speaking to Granny again" although I suspect this is largely because we now never speak to my brothers and sil's due to their alliance with my family role as the "bad child" .....[ and breathe!]

"ignore,ignore,ignore" was the best advise I gained from the NPD thread. That was regarding the now x p whose behaviour towards me was so exactly like hers....and was abusive......I took out a court order to keep him away....but what I do with her is pretty much as scaredofcows and mosschops describe.

The difficulty for you here ,I think,is that - understandably - you still hope she may behave differently towards you

• "Basically, during my recent pg I have tried to have the typical mum/daughter experience that outsiders expect."
  
  I have 5 dc and for all the first 4,I also tried to do this.Hoping all along that she would do the right thing at last.
  She was worse with every one.
  My 4th dc was born by emergency cs following an abruption and major haemorrhage which left us both on life support for 3 weeks.Mother went out to dinner on the night it happened and announced the birth of her new gdc saying all was well.She later told me that there was nothing she could have done either way "what was to be,was to be" and that the dinner engagement was long-standing (WI !!) .
  When we were recovering in the mother and baby high dependency unit,she actually rang through on the internal line to the incubator room and shouted and screamed at me down the phone to "stop lazing around with a baby that might not make it,and get back home to look after the ones that already have",as she and dad were exhausted looking after them".That was on loudspeaker and heard by the itu sister who confronted her.Of course she denies it to this day.
  
  It is heartbreaking,unfair and terrible,but I am afraid my mother will never be the mummy I need.Whatever happens.Ever.
  
  Nor will yours.
  
  Once you confront this you can start to grieve,accept and recover.
  I can't say how long this takes.I 'm still working on it.
  
  But losing the hope may enable you to respond differently to her dreadful behaviour.
  xxx

[MyHipsHurt]

Odille, from her telling me from the outset that children should always come second in a marriage; that breastfeeding is disgusting, and that pg and labour is completely natural and therefore why am I even thinking of complaining when I spent both pg's on crutches due to severe spd.

Several months ago, I went 'no contact' with her; long may it continue.

There are issues however regarding my DC's as she is their only surviving GP, so I am also racked with guilt over their loss, BUT it comes back to the same argument, just because someone has the title 'mother' does not automatically make them a loving, caring mother. In the same way that she is a very hands off GP and always has been. The DC's naturally miss her, but then again they have never had any other GPs to compare her to, and are too young to realise what a toxic person she is. Whatever happens in the future, I will NEVER allow them to be alone with her, ever. She wouldn't hesitate to tell them things about me to put me in a bad light, or to doubt me in some way. She would use them for her own ends, I am sure.

Sorry don't mean to hijack your thread, just putting across my situation a bit in the hope that you can relate to it and know that you are not alone in your situation.

For my DCs, I dread ever becoming the mother she was to me and I have to fight hard every day not to automatically copy her and absolutely do not want her to influence my DCs lives as I know she will never change her narc behaviour.

[bustersmummy]

I'm another.

Haven't spoken to my mother since February when I stood up to her (and the rest of my family - I was the scapegoat) and told them their treatment of me was wrong, had to stop and I wasn't letting anyone treat me like that anymore.

I doubt I'll see her, my father or any of the rest of my family again.

[Fimbo]

I am another. My mother is so overly dramatic and as others have said anything that happens to me turns into her tragedy. She could win an oscar. My father is an enabler which doesn't help.

I am trying so very hard with my own children to not turn out like her, thankfully dh would step on me very hard if I did.

[bustersmummy]

My mother said she had a "right" to know all the details of why me and ex had split.

She could not understand why I wasn't prepared to tell her and she exploded after I stood up to my alcoholic brother.

She actually spat in my face at my front door.

So now she sends presents and I love you and miss you cards to the DC's - but she sends them to my ex's and he gives them to them.

[Fimbo]

Sorry to hijack thread too. I can remember longing for what seems like forever to have a normal mother. I wanted to go shopping with her and chose stuff together. Of course that never happens as we have to go to shops she chooses and move at a pace she dictates. I use to have dreams of simply going for an eyebrow wax together but it will never happen as she would never approve, just like you should had under baggy clothing and never show yourself off. When I was younger I was size 8/10 and she would buy me jumpers and nighties in sizes 18/20 so they would be loose fitting.

[Fimbo]

*hide under

[TheCrackFox]

Did anyone only start realising that there was something deeply wrong with their mother after having children themselves?

I used to think my mum was totally normal (she did her level best to ensure I had no friends to compare her with) but when I had my first baby I started to notice just how fucked up she is.

[MizzyWizzyDizzy]

I've been there too.

Stepped away from it all permanently just before Xmas.

I,my DH and 3 DC's are now no contact will all my birth family except for one uncle.

I have better things to spend my energy on than trying to 'manage' the unmanagable.

[bustersmummy]

yes TCF, partly.

But only really when I was getting out of my EA marriage and the penny dropped that I'd just repeated the pattern of my childhood

[TheCrackFox]

I'm very lucky in that I married a normal person and all my friends are great.
Actually, spending time with friends and their familes helped me to see that my mum was far, far from normal.

[bustersmummy]

I didn't realise my mum was abnormal til I was a teenager, but she put it down to her "so stressful" job so I had to do more than my friends.

Then I picked a fuckwit who was NPD as well (although of course you realise it's me who is the nutter it's not him).

But my new DP/BF opened my eyes the most. I've said it a time or two on here, but he's just so different.

[MizzyWizzyDizzy]

I always knew my lot were 'odd'...especially after starting secondary school...when |I noticed none of my friends parents and siblings behaved like mine.

I have always been the 'scapegoat' though so being on the outside looking in on their oddities was a position I was used to and ready to accept easily...my 'enough' moment was forced when I was propelled into the 'goldenchild' role...that role nigh on tipped me over the edge.

My defining moment came when I saw my parents and siblings trying the 'divide' and conquer tactics with my DC's and my DC's noticing the favouritism.

My birth family may have fucked about with my life...but they will NOT do it to my children...the lineage of crap family games stops with me.

[bustersmummy]

Oh my mother also has tried to do the divide and conquer with my DC's and my brother's DC's.

That's what the row was about.

[piranhamorgana]

bustersmummy - what a very similar story.
TCF -yes,only when I had dc,but increasingly so with each of the 5. I just kept on longing and hoping that she would change,and was soo entrenched in the family script.The one where it's all my fault and poor them.
Not Now.

[bustersmummy]

yeah - my brother was being abusive to me, screaming in my face, he was drunk, I said "I am not listening to this. It's time I left"

I started to gather up my and the DD's stuff, mother followed me screaming at me to get back in and apologise to my brother.

I refused, my father opted out and basically ignored the whole thing.

Then my mother arrived at my door two weeks later and totally went off on one with me, she was "entitled" and "had a right" to know "every detail" of why I'd split up from exH, and she "could not understand" why I "didn't want to tell her everything" so she could gossip to all her cronies

She totally flipped when I stuck to my guns and she spat in my face and said she never wanted to see me again.

I've not seen her since.