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Incest between brothers and sisters

(48 Posts)
Marien65uk Thu 28-Apr-11 16:05:44

Hi first thing i would like to apologise for my english as is not my first language.
I am a single mother of 3 no by choice; my first husband died 13 years ago, and then i went on to married again 4 years ago, i got pregnant very early into the relationship, and as i started dealing with numerous issues in my life i supose due to been hormonal as other ways I am supose to be a strong person e.g eldest son is autistic second daugthers was in hospital at this time and was diagnosed with an illness that has not cure but can be controlled, similar to lupus.
And when i was nine years old i was molested by my maternal grandfather once and all this just keept coming back into my head. my then boyfriend became controlling and jelous acusing me of cheating on him with my cousin's husband (sick) he's not good at all not for my cousin never mine for me.
As became frustrated he tought i was rejecting him, but i was just tired as i was working full time as teaching assitant with autistic children, and i needed to concentrate on what i was doing in the class room.
never mind 1 nigth he just started crying and told me what has happened between him and his sister aparently she seduced him 1 nigth when he was 12 and she was 15 after he catch her nearly having sex with one of his dad workers, after that they continued to have sex for 3 years.
And at the time she left our country of origin and came to live in england and meet her husband, they got married and my ex , follow her here after 3 years i belive.
their family is very very disfunctional their mother walked out on their father and left them with him, he is a peadophile and he prefers girls between 9 an 14 i belive.
what made me feel sick is that our marriage din't last because he's very much in live with his sister and he acused me of using he's past.
But is not normal that he hasn't managed to have a normal relationship with anyone, I was the closed to normal.
I am sahring this story because, even now after 3 years that with has been separated i love him even if i preten to the rest of the world that I don't, but in top of that i woorry about our litle girl; how would this affect her when she is big enough to understand?
he see her very often but must of the time in my house as i don't fully trust him, can somebody help me please? I am on antidepressants because i was so afected by this all that i tried to commit suicide twice. I had psychotherapy and counselling but still i feel this deep sadness inside.

Marien65uk Thu 28-Apr-11 16:33:59


TheSecondComing Thu 28-Apr-11 16:36:57

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

QuelleLeJeff Thu 28-Apr-11 16:43:04

I don't even understand what you're saying which is why I haven't replied.

Are you saying that your ex had sex with his sister and is in love with his sister and their dad is a peadophile and what should you do?

Stay as far the fuck away from him and his freakshow of a family as you can. Don't tell your DD anything about it, why would you?

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar Thu 28-Apr-11 16:46:39

What Quelle said.

electra Thu 28-Apr-11 16:55:40

Marien - I am sorry that people have been so unkind and accused you of being a 'troll'. I do believe your story - I think incest is far more common than people realise because it is still such a taboo. People don't talk about it.

In your situation I think I would try to find a good counselor. It will help you to be able to unpack what has happened to you and deal with it mentally - you say you are on anti-depressants. What has happened is not your fault and is beyond your control and of course it will have left you feeling very confused, especially when you have a child from the relationship.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar Thu 28-Apr-11 17:06:44

I don't blame TSC for being hmm

And Quelle has answered the question with Stay as far the fuck away from him and his freakshow of a family as you can. Don't tell your DD anything about it, why would you?

I don't think anyone is being particularly unkind.

cuteboots Thu 28-Apr-11 17:06:50

I agree with Quelle !

sorky Thu 28-Apr-11 17:10:40

Bit early for this isn't it? hmm

electra Thu 28-Apr-11 17:16:28

Jenai - the OP has already stated that English is not her first language. Why do you think her post is not believable?

Just because the situation sounds odd does not give people the right to cry troll. MN has become like this all the time lately. It's a shame.

ffs, MN at it's worst, yet again

if you think it's a troll fucking well e-mail MNHQ.

this makes me so angry angry

Marien, I am sorry peoiple have responded like that. sometiems when people read something shocking their response is to pretend it isn't true... that's their problem, not yours and you shouoldn't let them put you off posting.

as for what you should do... I do think that it would benefit you to have more counselling/therapy so that you can come to terms with this and move on...

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar Thu 28-Apr-11 17:28:44

I don't like trollhunting. But I think it's only fair to the OP that somebody points out that her post is a little hmm - if only to explain why she's not getting hundreds of responses.

But yes, Quelle answered the question and she is right - no need to tell the dd and keep the fuck away from the freakshow family

Hopefully someone will come along with some more constructive advice (although for the third time, Quelle has it in a nutshell).

electra Thu 28-Apr-11 17:44:58

It's not a little hmm Incest does happen but it is not talked about. I disagree that Quelle's advice is at all constructive - calling someone's family a 'freakshow' - how exactly does that help?

I'll bet there are quite a few of us who fell in love with a man who turned out to be something other that what we intially thought.

electra Thu 28-Apr-11 17:46:34

Do you not think the dd will ask about her father?? You are about as helpful as my mother who 'advised' me to tell my youngest dd that her father is dead because he walked out on us.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar Thu 28-Apr-11 17:55:47

It should be on a need to know basis. There is no need to tell the dd anything until she is older (assuming she is still very young). And no need to go into the kind of detail Marien has in her OP. She can cross that bridge when she comes to it.

In her situation yes I would indeed keep away from that family. And calling them a freakshow helps imo because it emphasises that they are totally fucked up. There are probably better ways of putting it - although "dysfunctional" seems insufficient.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar Thu 28-Apr-11 17:58:03

And yes the dd will ask about her father and his family - to which she should respond with a highly sanitised version of the truth. Hopefully someone will come along with the right words as all I can come up with is that "some very bad things happened".

electra Thu 28-Apr-11 17:59:53

It doesn't help to kind of dehumanise people either though - people are the way they are for a reason. I object to anyone being called a freak. Anyway, looks like the OP has disappeared sad

Xales Thu 28-Apr-11 18:04:38

1. Keep your daughter away from your maternal grandfather as he abused you.

2. Keep your daughter away from her paternal grandfather if he is a peadophile. Do you know this or is it just malicious rumour spread by an embittered ex?

3. Who told you he was in love with his sister? Is he in love with her romatically and sexually or does he love her as a sister loves a brother?

There is nothing you can do to help your ex partner. He probably has deep rooted issues because of what happened in the past. If he wants to deal with them he can with councelling but you cannot fix it for him.

Your daughter does not need to know any of this. Why would she? You do not enrich her life and she gains nothing from being told any of this ever.

QuelleLeJeff Thu 28-Apr-11 18:22:22

<eye roll>

Yeah, sorry I called them a freakshow, I should have said for the OP to keep her daughter away from the very damaged people.


JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar Thu 28-Apr-11 18:28:23

The thing is, Marien appears to be pining for this man. She needs to keep her and her dd well away. That's why terms like "freakshow", whilst not exactly PC, are fitting.

electra Thu 28-Apr-11 18:44:58

Well I am not surprised she is pining - I expect she's very confused. This happens to people all the time - they find out something they didn't know about someone who they thought loved them. You can't rationalise your feelings away. Imagine finding out your husband has had an affair? Awful enough - but then finding out that the person you loved is actually still in love with their sister?

The OP came here for support on how she can cope with what has happened and survive it. That's how I read it anyway.

LindsayWagner Thu 28-Apr-11 18:52:41

"I don't even understand what you're saying which is why I haven't replied."

Jesus. If you think it's a troll, why did you respond? If you don't, how dare you pour contempt on her for not speaking English very well? Contemptible.

LindsayWagner Thu 28-Apr-11 19:00:01

And those of you who leapt in to humiliate this person so early in the thread, with absolutely no real evidence of trolling - bloody hell. If you're wrong - we'll probably never know either way now - you've behaved miserably

Marien65uk Thu 28-Apr-11 19:07:55

I would like to say that, i am very gratefull for the advise and kindness of some people, the other ones that adviseme to wank myself, well.... I am not surprised at all as people find this subject very disturbing.
I never tought that i would have to go trought out this in my life, I didn't even know this kind of thinghs happened.
To the person that asked if he is in a sexual relationship with his sister? the answer is yes, nobody belives me but i have the letters and the e-mails that he wrotte tome when he left me to go and live in her house.

Marien65uk Thu 28-Apr-11 19:10:49

I don't even know what a troll is, all i know is that is very insulting, but i don't feel insulted because i know I AM TELLING YOU THE TRUE, nothingh easy my pain and i tought people would be more... I don't know perhaps understanding as I don't think I had doing anything wrong.

Marien65uk Thu 28-Apr-11 19:14:47

Electra thank you.

TheMonster Thu 28-Apr-11 19:17:36

Your ex's past and his feelings towards his sister are no reflection on you. It is not your fault.

Conflugenglugen Thu 28-Apr-11 19:47:41

Marien - How long did you have counselling and psychotherapy for? Weeks? Months?

Marien65uk Thu 28-Apr-11 20:05:28

I had psycotherapy for 1 year and counselling for 6 months , but i don't think it does help because i still in pain and i don't know why I am still pining over him

FabbyChic Thu 28-Apr-11 20:13:39

You are pining because you have not moved on.

For you there is still something there emotionally and that is the void that you need to fill.

You need to stop thinking and start living, by constantly going over things in your head you are always reminding yourself of the bad things.

Your daughter never needs to know about anything you make up a story about her father when she asks, you never tell the truth.

Marien65uk Thu 28-Apr-11 20:17:47

Thanks for all your comments and support I am off to put little one to bed good night evry one.

you're pining for the things you thought you had, and the life that turned out to be a lie

i really would go back to your GP and ask for more therapy, or pay privately if you can because then you won't have to go on a waiting list.

do you have other friends/family around who you can rely on? do you think it would help to talk this through to any of them... it can be hard to get through by yourself

Xales Thu 28-Apr-11 20:23:33

I can only say the same as the others. This is no reflection on you. It is probably no reflection on what he should be like either he has been conditioned into this sad.

I hope it gets better for you.

Conflugenglugen Thu 28-Apr-11 22:24:05

One year of therapy in this instance is almost certainly not enough. Also - and more importantly - just like you sometimes have to kiss a lot of frogs to get a prince, you sometimes have to try several therapists to find one where not only is there a trusting, respectful working relationship, but where there is also the potential for you to be guided into new ways of seeing yourself and the world. This is not always a comfortable process - and, in fact, I'd go so far as to say that if therapy is comfortable, then it's not working. You should feel safe at all times, absolutely; but there will also be times of immense pain, resistance, and intense emotion. All difficult, but all necessary.

Why not give therapy more of a chance? Going through that process again might be the last thing you feel like doing, but, when it works, it can be slowly but surely liberating. Good luck!

PlopPlopPing Fri 29-Apr-11 08:32:13

Wow that's horrendous! I can't believe people have been so horrible to you. This sort of thing happens A LOT and those who don't believe it does have their heads buried in the sand. I have worked in a particular field where I have heard this sort of thing from people first hand and they would be devastated if they got the same reaction that you have here OP. Those people should be ashamed of themselves!

I think that it is very sad what happened to your ex and I can understand you not entirely trusting him. His sister was older and so in a position of authority over him so he has been abused in my opinion. That doesn't mean that he will then go on to abuse others such as your daughter (although a lot of people who abuse do so because it was learnt behaviour as a child) but that by no means make him an abuser by default. Has he had counselling? I think I would insist that he does. It also sounds like his sister may have been abused by their dad and so was copying this behaviour. When incest happens in familes a lack of bounderies can often be a contributing factor as can neglect and isolation form peers.

There are probably a lot of psychological issues going on here in relation to him feeling as though he is in love with his sister but i am in no way qualified to explain those! It's a very complicated thing and would take months for a professional to unravel.

I don't know what to suggest you do really. Maybe suggest he gets help but also try to move on yourself. I can't see the relationship lasting between the two of you. Mostly because you have already tried and it didn't last and because you don't really trust him. When you think about it it's impossible to have a long term relationship with someone you can't trust. It has no future. Try to build new friendships and get out and about, maybe take a course to meet people. It can only help.

Wisedupwoman Fri 29-Apr-11 19:32:15

Just dropping by.

OP I don't know what a troll is either but either way I wouldn't let it bother you too much.

I don't think your post is unusual at all I'm sorry to say. I work in mental health and well over 80% of the people I see have witnessed or experienced some kind of sexual abuse in their close family. I person in 6 experiences a mental health problem in their lifetime. So I think this qualifies your story as all too familiar.

I don't know what the statistics say about brother/sister incest but it happens. It happened between your H and his sister and is still happening as far as you know.

As another poster has pointed out, an affair is a trauma for the betrayed partner, in this case you. It is even more of a trauma when you discover an incestuous infidelity. I understood your question about your DD to be about her safety from your H in the future - I thought you were asking these questions :

if he can commit incest with his sister, where do his boundaries end? Do you need to protect her by telling her about her D? Am I 'normal' to still love him?

I would say you don't need to give details to your daughter and if you need to they should be appropriate for her age and should not traumatise her by being too detailed.

Keep away from your H - at the very least these feelings he has for his sister are not going to go away, she is not like an affair partner. At most, they are commiting an unlawful act. Are you sure you still love him OP? Or are you feeling lonely and isolated? This is not the same as loving someone who you seem to feel disgust for, understandably IMO.

If YOur grandfather is still living and has access to your DD - you must do something to protect her. If he is a paedophile he will eventually give in to temptation to molest a child if he has the opportunity. You know that from your own experience.

Get yourself back into therapy and tell everything to the therapist. maybe first time around you didn't quite click but therapy isn't a one time only thing.

Hope this helps.

PlopPlopPing Fri 29-Apr-11 20:05:57

Good post Wisedupwoman!

Wisedupwoman Fri 29-Apr-11 20:38:23

Tahnk you PlopPlop <resists the urge to giggle childishly at the name>

LoopyLoopsNincompoop Fri 29-Apr-11 20:57:31

Yes, excellent advice Wisedup.

Those of you who have been rude, troll hunting etc., please think about the person behind these posts. If it were a troll, then it is a shame that people might offer advice in vain, but if not, you are causing real hurt and upset to someone in an awful situation looking for your help. Please bear that in mind. Think of some awful things that have happened to you, and try to imagine how you would feel if no-one believed you.

Marien, as a languages teacher, I think you should be very proud of your English.
Take Wised-up's advice. Treat any communication with your ex with suspicion. He sadly does not have a grasp of normal sexual boundaries, and you cannot risk the safety of your daughter by holding any thoughts for him. You cannot help him, you can only get hurt and allow your children to be hurt too.

Take care. smile

Marien65uk Sat 30-Apr-11 03:59:02

Plopplopping,wise ud and loopy loops, i like to thank you for your kind advice.
I would like to clarife that thanks god my grandfather died when i was 10 years old so i don't have to worry about him; about my husbands father I don't worry about him either as he doesn't live here.
I think the 3 of you understood very well what my concerns are.
I don't have intentions of going back to him,but the pain l is always there.i won't to tell my daugther about her father's relationship with his sister NOW but I know that everyone within the family knows about what is going on and i worry about my daugther.In the future, she will ask questions eventually ;that is what i find so painful amongs other subjects.
i had read a lot about this subject but is hard to take all of this in, sometimes i feel totally isolated even when iam surronded by nice people, i work,go to college and have a pretty busy life but belive me this problem is always on my mind.
i don't talk to people about this because is very embarrasing and because i don't want my daughter to be tarnish by all this. that is the reason why iam using the anonimity of the internet.
I don't have money to pay for psycotherapy anymore and my GP seens to think that counselling is enough and i don't feel the same. there lots of issues that i would like to understand and i don't.
for instance their mother attitude to the whole problem was well.....they aren't the first and they won't be the last ones to do it.
I try to be very civilized, i don't talk anything bad about him in front of my children and i don't allow people to do it either , because i belive iam protecting my toddler from getting her childhood ruined but..... what i am going to say when she gets older lets say 12 ,15, would she experience the same pain that i had and still do????

PlopPlopPing Sat 30-Apr-11 14:32:36

You sound quite sensible. I don't know the answer I'm to what you tell your daughter as she gets older. I suppose you can only tell her what she is old enough to understand, but there is no rush. My first thought is that when she learns what happened that she may feel that there is something wrong with her father and so she may of inherited this. I suppose making sure that she understands that this is learnt behaviour and she is not tainted by this?

want2sleep Sat 30-Apr-11 15:24:42

I believe you on the factual point you made your ds has autism and you have autoimmunne disease very very common with mum and child...this isnt a troll just bad luck!
i know as the saying 'what can go wrong will go wrong' has been my life tooo for last 8 yrs!

First as Xales say keep dd away from the rels as high risk of childabuse! Then go back to GP ask to be referred to Community Mental Health Team and get the correct antidepressent for you! Then ask for CBT once you are feeling a little better on antidepressants.

Dont leave your dd with her f. Abuse is often a 'cycle' and if dd looks like f sister well that is a worry as the man is delusional (not well from abuse) I think you'll find the sister was sexually abused too by the father or grandfather (am a bit lost) and this is why the sexual devienet behaviours started in sister!

You can demand your ex gets help before he sees your dd again! If he really wants to see his dd we will...otherwise he is too ill himself to see beyond the abuse he too was pulled into! He needs help and it aint going to cure itself overnight! This maybe a life long struggle for him!

You need to make a fresh start when you are ready and try and live life without him in your head...CBT will help! I know you love him but he is too unwell to be in a relationship...try and see this! But you can be his friend...but you are not strong enough to be his shrink...and this is what he needs and you need to get through the damage!

Get to your GP Tues morning and ask for referral to CMHT and say antidepressents not helping need to see psychiatrist and support fron psychologist if possible that deals with abuse issues!

Marien65uk Sat 30-Apr-11 22:55:14

Thank you, ploppplop and want2tosleep. You gave me the answear that i was looking for, i am not crazy and i am not overreacting, and now i know that when i demanded him go and get some help other ways he won't be able to see his dear daugther i was rigth. he told me that i was jelous and that i was doing this out of spite.
And let me tell you something, i am only human and off course i want revange, but not that much that i would hurt my daughter and put use her as a weapon.
again i am not a troll i wish, but this is my life. and to have 3 children with different issues is emotionally draining.
we all have problems and i guess is just one day at the time.

LindsayWagner Sat 30-Apr-11 22:55:57

Marien65uk, what wisedupwoman says is quite likely - that your feelings for your ex-h are actually feelings of loneliness.

I think that your sense of having a big secret that you can't share (to protect yourself, and your daughter) is creating, or at least enhancing, that feeling of loneliness; you need to find a place that you can discuss your experience, so that this feeling doesn't dominate all your other social relationships. Is there a group for people who have been in relationships with those affected by incest/sexual abuse, like al-anon for families of alcoholics?

garlicbutter Sat 30-Apr-11 23:40:26

Making a big guess from your story, Marien, I would say your father-in-law sexually interfered with your sister-in-law when she was under 15. This would go a long way to explain why she then began a sexual affair with her brother. The ideas of family love & sex would be all mixed up in her childish head. When she grew too old for her father's tastes ( angry ) she must have felt 'jilted' and so looked to replace that kind of love with her brother. Very sad for both of them.

Your ex couldn't help beng messed up by all this. His boundaries and understanding about families & sex must be very, very confused. It's a fair guess that he was able to form a relationship with you because of what happened in your own childhood. Even though you have healthy values, you endured a similar blurring of boundaries. This probably made you more tolerant of attitudes that would have put other women off. That's not to say there's something wrong with you! But that you may have missed some clues about what he's like, thanks to your upbrnging.

If you sometimes feel like blaming yourself - don't. You've been very, very badly let down by your own birth family, your ex and by fate, which made you a young widow and gave you health problems to deal with. I think you're amazing to be making so much of your life, and doing good for others as well smile

Your ex can't help the way he is but I think he's a danger to your children. He's not capable of separating family love from sex. If he must have contact with DD, it should be supervised at all times. No contact would be better imo. I don't know exactly what you should tell her - try to stick to an age-appropriate version of the truth, and answer her questions honestly. Give her more detail as she gets older. It's a horrid thing for a young woman to know about her father, but the most important thing is that she must know you protected her.

I understand how difficult it must be to feel your husband left you for his sister. It's bad enough when there is another woman in the usual way, this must have torn you to pieces! It must be some help, to know, that it's all he could do. No woman can be what his sister was and is to him. (No woman should be, of course, but their parents have done their damage and there's no second chance at childhood.)

Please tell your doctor how much you're suffering. Ask for some antidepressants and insist on a mental health referral. Cry if you feel like it, the doctor only has 10 minutes to assess your state so don't make it difficult for them.

It was brave of you to post this thread smile Keep writing if it helps!
Sorry this is so long. All the best.

bristolcities Sat 30-Apr-11 23:58:01

It happens a lot actually. I know a famous aristocratic family in which the brother an sister are sleeping together. There mother left and the age gap was very similar with the sister being the oldest. Brother is single and suffers from severe depression and sister is married to a very successful surgeon.

It happens in all walks of life so there is no need to feel ashamed but there is every reason to get help. It absolutely affects everyone and you are so close to the situation and need help and support form some one in RL. Do other people know?

Marien65uk Sun 01-May-11 19:57:29

Oh my god I am so happy that finally i found some answears to my feelings is like, all the staff i had in my mind , I wasn't made in thinghs up or looking for danger where it wasn't, but now i know that, everything is gona be allright at least for me and my children, because for him i don't know what the future holds , i had tryed to help him in every single way and in some ways i had achived something but he won't go to psycotherapy or counselling. i feel sorry for him but....I know I AM NOT THE WICKED WITCH LOOKING TO DESTROY HIS LIFE . thank you everyone it really helps to be able to talk about this with people that are objective and won't judge me or my children.
again thank you

Marien65uk Sun 01-May-11 20:04:59

OH garlicbutter, you understood everything just as it was except for my birth family my mother and father were always very protective of us my late grandfather was just a sly manipulative disgusting person and all he need it was 1 overnight stay .
If anyone knows of a group that deal with this issue i'll be so gratefull.

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