No sex for 10 years - how to cope?

[Pandamoanium]

I am really nervous about posting this on such a public forum, but I have been reading MN for a few weeks and have seen so many wise people here. Sorry this is so long.

We have been married for nearly 25 years and have had such a difficult time with so many things to cope with. At the beginning, everything was wonderful and in many ways our relationship still is. My DH is very supportive, kind and loving.

However, some of the difficulties are: DH becoming severely disabled, our DS1 being ASD, me having a long-term chronic illness which means I may lose my job in the near future, no friends or family living nearby, the family we do have being far away & not being very supportive.

DH's disability means that he can no longer have sex with me - this has now gone on for nearly 10 years. I miss this terribly and sometimes feel really angry about the fact that I will never have sex again as long as I live! On other days, I feel that I have totally switched off anyway, so why does it matter?

I don't think there are any answers to this really, but I have no-one to talk to about this - apart from DH himself, and he just cries when I raise the issue.

[Mumfun]

Sorry to hear all this and sorry your DH cries if you raise it. If you write a bit more about how DH is disabled it might help people help you. Usually on MN people suggest other ways of intimacy with DH and there is a lot of help out there.

[Malificence]

There are disability forums which have good advice on how to have sex when you are disabled, I would imagine very few disabled people are unable to have any kind of sex at all, it's purely a matter of finding ways that are mutually satisfying.
There are some incredible gadgets and gizmos to help too, I remember watching a programme about sex and disability and I was hugely impressed with the range of help out there for people.

[Pandamoanium]

Thanks to both of you for your replies. I don't want to say much more about DH's disability as I don't want to give out more information in such a public place. He would be devastated to know I am posting here. Also, he is a lot more prudish than I am about sex and would not want to use "gadgets and gizmos" - I think he has totally lost all interest now.

He knows how I feel as I have raised it again recently, but he bursts into tears and says I just have to get used to the fact that this side of our lives is all over now. He is such a wonderful man in other ways that I would never think of leaving him or looking outside our marriage - I love him and would never do that to him.

I think I just have to grin and bear it somehow.

[HesitantAndShy]

It's such a sad case that I felt like crying myself. It must be awful for you and I'm amazed at the heroic way that you are bearing it. However, DH's feelings aren't the only ones at issue here. Even if it makes him cry, he has to face up to the fact that he committed his life and his body to you in marriage. That's one of the beautiful things about the traditional vows (if you said them, of course). In our marriage we said "with my body I thee worship" and we agreed from the start that we'd always make our bodies available to one another. Many years on, there's rather more of each of our bodies, but we still maintain our commitment.

I would recommend that you see a trained counsellor about this. It's not just about disability, it's about a relationship of giving your all to each other. Most of us feel that we're inadequate in some way or other (too fat, no boobs, stretch-marks etc.) Although your DH has it worse than any of us, he can still find ways to please you and stay in a sexual relationship, even if it were only to cuddle you while you pleasured yourself. However, it's easy to have a pat solution on an anonymous forum, but it's you who has to live with it.

That's why I'm convinced that you need to find professional help, perhaps through an organisation like Relate. Sexual problems are common in all couples and your DH may find that he's able to talk to an impartial third-party. I suspect that whenever he talks to you he gets overcome with his feelings of shame and self-loathing and that he's letting you down. But he needs to get to a point where sex is once more a part of your relationship, even if it's radically different from before.

[Politixmum]

HesitantAndShy I think this is very good advice.
I have a similar problem, and my DP isn't in any way disabled. Our problem partly stems from my getting pregnant both times we had sex last time (many years ago!) and then having miscarriages. This put me off at the time, then as time passed DP got a bit chubby and now he is ashamed.
We find this really hard to talk about as he is quite shy - he too would be appalled at my posting about this! but I wanted to say to OP, it's not an unusual situation. I would really like it if my DP would agree to see a counsellor so we could talk about this.

[atswimtwolengths]

Would your husband respond to some sort of exercise and dieting regime, Politixmum? If I were him, I would love my partner to help me find a solution to the problem.

I'm so sorry about your problem, Pandamoanium. I do think, though, that he is being unreasonable in saying that you should both just accept it. He should want the best for you, just as you clearly do for him.

[Politixmum]

Thanks atswimtwolengths, I have been encouraging DP to walk to work and he is quite good about doing this - when work isn't totally overloading him. So I am sort of bumbling along - like Pandamoanium, I have a lovely DP, would just like a bit of rumpty-tumpty occasionally! I hope to get things back on track slowly, although I thimk counselling would help speed things up.
Maybe it can help to suggest chatting to someone about the relationship as a whole, rather than saying: Let's talk about sex, baby, if your DP is a bit shy?

[SpringchickenGoldBrass]

He's not that lovely if he is just telling you to 'suck it up' when you are unhappy. It is not right, fair or ethical for a person to make a unilateral decision that a marriage/couple relatinship will no longer involve sex and insist that the other partner just accepts this without complaining. It's very hard being the partner of someone who has physical or mental health problems, because you (and everyone else) tend to forget that you matter too.

A person who really doesn't ever want to have sex with his/her partner again should either end the relationship or be generous enough to agree to the partner seeking NSA sex with other people.

[HesitantAndShy]

@Politixmum One of the problems with not having sex for a while, is that both parties can be feeling "I'd really like to, but I don't want to embarrass my partner by asking". Men can be shy, but it would be unusual if he didn't think about sex at all (at least if my DH is any guide!). It's easy to settle into a routine that avoids the problem, so one way out is to break the routine.

That can be as simple as getting into his side of the bed before he gets there. If you're really feeling daring, you could be naked too! (Not always advisable at this time of year, I admit). Perhaps you could snuggle up close and make sure that you're pressing your body near his dangly bits, or rest your hand on his hips and let it drift... If you get a response, then you can go with the flow. If not, just enjoy being close.

Afterwards, tell him how nice it was and how it would be great to do it again soon. Perhaps even suggest talking to a counsellor then. Men are usually much more approachable after sex, if you can get them to chat before they roll over, fart and snore.

[atswimtwolengths]

Pandamoanium, can you say whether your DH actually has any sexual feelings?

[Pandamoanium]

SGB - I agree with you to some extent that he's not being very fair with me, however, I would never be unfaithful to him. He is a really great guy in so many ways and has been through too much for me to leave him. He has looked after me through terrible illnesses too.

atswimtwolengths - I don't think he does, or at least he won't say. It's funny really, because we can talk about anything else with no problems, but this is just too difficult. The other issue for me is that although I love him deeply, I don't actually fancy him any more - which is so sad. I feel really mean saying this and probably people will hate me for it, but he has put on so much weight! I don't suppose I'm that gorgeous either after all these years! I think maybe I'm just hankering after the gorgeous man I married.

[SpringchickenGoldBrass]

Panda, is the weight gain to do with the disability (either induced by the drugs or because he can't be active enough to maintain a stable weight?) Actually, though I understand that you don't want to air the details of your H's health problem online, it's quite possible that both the weight gain and the lack of interest in sex might have the same root cause; a side effect of whatever meds he is on for his health issue. Quite a few drugs have a very damaging effect on the libido, but its something that doctors don't always warn patients about or bother to consider because of this lingering low-level cultural myth that it's a bit unseemly and ungrateful to mind if your drugs destroy your libido. If your H cries when you try to discuss the lack of sex in your marriage, how would he respond to you suggesting that his meds might need reviewing in the light of his weight gain, or just as a general thing?
Do bear in mind that just because your H has been good to you in the past and is a great guy in many ways, that doesn't mean you owe him your life and should ignore your own feelings and wishes entirely. Sometimes people who sit and cry when challenged however gently by an unhappy partner actually need the equivalent of a swift slap in the face because they are being selfish and unfair by using tears as a weapon to make the partner shut up and back off.

[Politixmum]

HesitantAndShy thank you - I won't go into my things because this isn't my post. There is a lot going on that needs to be sorted out for me and my DP to get it together.
However I do sympathise with Panda because my DP is great fun and lovely to be with, just that we have not got this side of the relationship which in the society we are in today is often regarded as the only reason to be in a relationship at all. Actually, although I would be a bit sorry never to have rumpy-pumpy with him again, I would never want to leave him because we enjoy so much else in life and have such a good laugh together. I sometimes enjoy a bit of a fantasy and fiddle on my own - if I don't fall asleep too quickly to get into it! My DP is the person who has been kindest to me ever, and he thinks I am really witty and wise, which is nice.
In relaation to Panda's DP, I have been thinking today that although women often have difficult relationships with our own bodies because of social pressures to look certain ways, at least we know that there is a problem there. Men also experience social pressure to look physically fit, not only do they feel embarassed if they aren't Mr Six-Pack but they feel unable to acknowledge this is a problem, as men are not even supposed to have feelings very much. These anxieties about the body are so much more difficult for someone who is disabled.
I think HesitantAndShy is right that counselling would be the best way to help Panda's DH come to terms with how he is in his own body, and therefore be able to relate to Panda through his body. Perhaps you could start by suggesting the two of you meet to discuss his meds with a counsellor? This could be a way of easing him into the process without embarassing him by saying something he might misinterpret as: we need someone-else to interfere in our lives because you are not satisfying me sexually.
But Panda, if you don't fancy him any more - just want to be with him because you like him as a person, I don't think you should feel you are a bad person. I would much rather stay with my DP without sex than go back to some of the abusive people I was with in the past with whom I had lots of sex.
If you just would like to enjoy sex by yourself, a long time ago I read a book, I think it was called In the Night Garden? about women's fantasies, it was wild! And as HesitantAndShy says, there is quite a range of toys these days for ladies who like to keep themselves happy instead of relying on men (or viagra). To be honest, I've never dared try them out in case I never want to bother with DP again! but perhaps I should.

[Pandamoanium]

Thanks to all of you again. It's not meds making DH overweight, but the fact that he cannot exercise due to his disability. He has a degenerative spinal condition and has had several slipped discs. If he gets much worse, he will end up in a wheel chair. The pain when he has a slipped disc is indescribable. So he is actually terrified of making love in case he has another injury.

I understand this POV as I have seen the pain that he suffers 24/7 and also the extreme pain when he has a disc prolapse. He has totally switched off any sexual feelings because of this fear, although we do hug and kiss a lot.

I think I just have to look after myself . I have already said, I would never leave him - he has been my hero in so many ways.

[loopylou6]

Why can't he just lie on his back and let you do the work?

[SpringchickenGoldBrass]

PM: THe book you mean is called My Secret Garden.
SOrry but I am crying with laughter at your mixiing it up with IN The Night Garden, about which I have always thought there is something dubious. ALl that pebble fetishism and polygamous marriage and Upsy Daisy always kissing everything...

[OneFishTwoFish]

SGB, who has a polygamous marriage in ITNG? Surely not the Tombliboos - they're just friends.

OP, sorry for hijack. No experience but I extend my sympathies and hope you can find a way forward.

[SpringchickenGoldBrass]

OFTF: Nah it's the Wottingers and the Pontipines. They are forever slipping through the connecting doors to each other - how do you think they got so many DC in the first place?

[cabbageroses]

OP what is coming across is that- deep breath- evne if your DH had no disability you still would not want sex with him.

Sorry but I think he is being selfish. From what you say, he could have sex with you on top if that is what you would like.

I don't think it's his illness that is stopping you- it is what he has become now.

I am sure his consultant would advise him about what is safe etc- if he asked.

Maybe instead of focusing on his illness youshould think about what you want out of the marriage. co-dependency is fine if it suits you both, but if you do really want a sex life you are either going to have to find a lover, leave, or persuade your DH tolose weight and try a bit.

[Politixmum]

Oh dear I feel like a total numpty calling the book In the Night Garden! [The sleep deprivation is really starting to show now.

OP - I do think talking things over with someone professional who can give you both a clearer perspective on your situation might help you gain confidence in this side of your relationship, whether that is an acceptance of how things are or finding a way to work things out. I am sure Relate would either provide someone or be able to guide you to expert support.
Maybe even if your DH came with you and helped you choose some toys for yourself, that would feel as if he was still a part of your sex life?
Meanwhile, I think you should feel OK about being in a relationship which is warm, loving and mutually supportive but doesn't have sex in it.
Hugs

[bingethinker]

Pandamonium, I have heard this before from people with bad backs. The words "degenerative change" seem to cause huge anxiety and it is usually advised that these are no longer used in reporting or discussing the results of scans, for example. Most of us, if scanned, would have signs of "degenerative change". I have some on my head too: my hair is going grey.

I am really really sorry but the best treatment for this problem is exercise, and no he will not end up in a wheelchair. The name for his issues with exercise(and probably other things) is fear avoidance and I would push him in the direction of a clinical psychologist who understands chronic pain. That said, after a long time it would be surprising if he came back to normal: brains can be conditioned to experience long-lasting pain and go beyond the point where they can be compensated, but it's worth a try. Even if things can't be improved then changes can be made to make the best of the status quo.

I expect you have found what I've said shocking, unhelpful and unpleasant, but really, this is not a permanent progressive disability. The path to your happiness is probably to tackle this a little more assertively.

[cabbageroses]

Can I just endorse what BT has said? My MIL has the same type of condition, with arthritis- after my FIL died when she was relatively young- 60s- she "took to her bed" with depression and has never really walked again since.

The only thing that ket her mobile before her depression ( which was very very severe- she was almost sectioned) was excercise. However, for all kinds of psychological reasons, she never exercised or went out again.

It is easy to see what the power of the mind can do- she is now housebound a mere shell of what she was.

The longer your DH sits and gets larger and doesn't try to help himself the worse he w ill become.
Can you ask for an appt together with his consultant, discuss a plan to help him, and also ask about sex? I can't help feeling that he is using his back problems as a scapegoat and that you are accepting this- plus, you have admitted you don't really fancy him.

Are you asking for permission to leave him as you don't sound happy? you sound as if you care for him, are "attached" and feel responsible for him, but the lust has gone.

[Pandamoanium]

Thanks, everyone, for giving me so much to think about - a lot of it pretty uncomfortable actually! But maybe that was what I needed. No, I won't leave him, but I will consider some of the options you have suggested.

Kind of you all to contribute.

[Politixmum]

Good luck, panda. You deserve to be happy, whether that is through working something out with your DH, or accepting that the lust has gone (this is a very important part of relationships, in spite of what I have been saying) and finding a new sexual relationship, or accepting that although you have a good relationship in other respects sex is not a part of it.
I feel for you very much, it is a tough situation.
xxx