Oh Gawd, my turn

[Alfreda]

Would be grateful for any messages of support/advice on how to deal with passive-aggressive behaviour.

Trying to keep it as short as possible, we've just had a disastrous week away in which husband was irascible and irritable, and shouting ++ at son (12). Spent my week tiptoeing round with the kids trying not to set him off, but eventually cracked and shouted at him to leave son alone, told him he was being cruel, then ran out of the room and burst into tears.
I don't do this sort of thing. The kids were frightened and traumatised. Now we are home and I have asked husband to sit down and have a talk with me about it, and he simply refused: "I have nothing to say". "I have", I replied, and he shrugged and walked out of the room.
He tends to be very passive-aggressive like this after an argument, and it usually lasts three days or so until one of us cracks: usually me, and I apologise even though I don't feel I'm at fault, and we kiss and make up, and I resent him a little but say nothing, and the underlying problem does not get addressed. This time I really think it's time to communicate better, and I don't know where to start.
And I am not going to allow him to continue bullying our son.
Advice, help, please....?
Thanks
small alfreda :(

[Doha]

I think it is time for the bully to shape up or ship out. This is not an isolated event but appears as you say to be a regular occurrence.I feel so sorry for your DS and also your other DC to have such an aweful time on holiday.

Your DC's should not be living in this dreadful atmosphere anad you should not have to tiptoe around this man.

He has to talk and not let this be swept under the carpet.

What is this doing to your DC's mental health. You really need to protect them against this man--you say he was cruel, this is then a form of child abuse. Tell him that and see how he reacts

[Flojo1979]

I think u need to be a little more forceful in your communication if he wont talk to u, issue him with an ultimatum that he either listens to u and take on board that he is damaging his family, the very people he is supposed to love and care for most or .....whatever u feel is appropriate, i would say, or we are seperating but i understand that is very drastic, or he moves in to spare room or sleeps on sofa etc until u can sort out your differences, whatever u think will hit him hard enough to make him wise up and see what hes doing. And if he doesnt wise up, then u have a very difficult choice on your hands cos your kids happiness comes first, maybe booking a minibreak with the kids behind his back and packing up then telling him you r off without him would be enough to shake him up and give your kids a better hol in process.

[Alfreda]

You are right about all of these things.

He is really miserable at the moment for a number of reasons. He isn't a bad person at all, and much of the time is lovely: just not reliably so. It is time time to tackle things but I am not good at dealing with confrontation. Part of the reason for this is tiptoeing round my own father who was, gawd help me, very similar.

TBh the last time we had a big bust-up like this was probably more than a year ago: while regular it isn't frequent.

May be relevant that I am the breadwinner and he gave up his career to be a full time Dad. Criticising him for the way he does things when I am not there most of the time is very hurtful to him.

Thus far I can only think of calling him on it every time it happens, and staying firm about the wanting to talk about it civilised-style. This takes a lot of energy and resolve, and I'm not sure I have either of those in abundance at present.
Going in all guns blazing will result in counter-aggression or stonewalling.

The kids, of course, just want us to hug and make up. Even ds has said, it's Ok Mum, I just want you both to be happy and be together. dd desperately worried that we will split. There is absolutely no need for us to split if we can only talk about this like civilised adults.

I'm not sure why that is such a difficult thing to do?

[Alfreda]

I should add that the spare room is currently occupied by a friend who has just split with his wife and is broke and has nowhere else to go. It never rains....

[Flojo1979]

I would have thought having this friend to stay would give your husband a little perspective on whats important. It now sounds like you just have accept n move on really. If it only happens once a year then perhaps u should let it go, kiss n make up then maybe just bring it up when hes in good mood just say, just wanted to say, that situation on hols wasnt good can we pls make sure it doesnt happen again. And leave it at that.

[Flojo1979]

I've never really thought about the term passive-aggressive but your description of it does sound like a lot of men!! They go off on one, then dont wonna talk about it. Men are simple creature and every now and then like to show they r the man of the house, and r never really very good communicators, with very selective memories about where the problem arose!

[Alfreda]

Mm.

I'm a logical being. I have already looked at the problem from the POV of potential damage to the children: it is certain that they would be more damaged by their parents splitting up than by having a shouty Dad. On the other hand, the longer this goes on unchanged, the more that balance shifts. So the sensible thing is to try and change it.

..and of course that's the challenge...

[freerangeeggs]

I think you should stick to your guns, but there's no need for you to be confrontational. You're not in the wrong.

My dad was very harsh on my brother when we were young and it has damaged their relationship in the long term.

Your husband can't just clam up about this - it clearly needs to be discussed.

Poor kids stuck in the middle - but it could be good for them to see a disagreement like this sorted out. It's not good for them to see their dad behaving in this way and no changes being made.

I hope it gets sorted out soon x

[pointissima]

Oh God, sounds like us.

DH has black dog moods when he simply cannot tolerate anybody or anything and will flare up. Happens to some extent about once every couple of months and badly about once a year- last time on family trip to Paris, when he said some awful things. DS was so upset and so evidently petrified that we would split that I think it made a real impact on DH. There has scarcely been a cross word since.

I agree that you would be mad to split over this; but you do need to talk about it; and you need to make clear to him how much it upsets the children. He also needs to understand that it is utterly unfair and that you should not have to live with being treated like that. No need for an ultimatum: you're not really at that point and it will bring out the worst in him.

[Alfreda]

Thank you: it is good to hear from others in similar families. Immeasurably good to not be alone in this right now! Feeling tearful....

In the kitchen we have polite civility at present. Guess I will bide my time, and just try to be clear, each time I think he is OTT, that he is. Some home truths will emerge in the next couple of weeks, I guess, and if he gripes I'll just have to be a broken record about the having offered to talk things through, and the offer still being open.

Does that sound reasonable? Actually, forget reasonable. Does that sound workable?

[Alfreda]

Oh yeah, also....the kids keep asking if we have talked about it yet, since I told them we would, after we got home.

Is it reasonable to tell them he won't talk to me, or is that unfairly involving them in the dispute?

[chattymitchy]

Hi Alfreda

I read as much as I could about PA, because my XP is PA in almost every way - SO frustrating to deal with. Nothing is ever their fault, they make promises they break, they sulk or are aggressive, you can't hold them to their word at all, can't reason with them ..... etc.

ANyway - I found these key points somewhere on how to deal with PA - don't know if they will help you, but I found them pretty useful

• Don't get mad. If you become angry, then the passive-aggressive person has already won. His indirect, behind-your-back attack is nearly impossible to prove, but your honest and outright natural response can be easily seen. If you blow up, he will paint you as the villian.
  
  
• Be direct. Because passive-aggressive people are virtually unable to be open and honest and straightforward, this is exactly the best counter-attack. Confront him earnestly, kindly, and directly. Be bold and strong, but not spiteful. Take the higher road, as much as possible.
  
  
• Try to offer facts and proof, whenever you can. Passive-aggression is based on deception. The smiling wolf is really the aggressor, although he may not look like it. Keep a journal of interactions, so you cannot be talked out of your convictions.

[Alfreda]

Thank you. That's really helpful.

But f*ck me if he hasn't just cooked us a nice dinner and apologised both to me and to ds for bullying him: and he used the b word, not me. And I explained then how I was getting flashbacks to my own childhood, and...etc etc. The kids both said they were relieved, and tomorrow night we have another monopoly game planned, as dh wants them to remember it with more pleasure than last night's game. As long (ds says) as Mum promises not to go ape this time.

I'm relieved, but will stay watchful. I realise that, as is often the case I have been complicit in this a little: I need to be more assertive. I intend to be.

Thank you all so much for being here in a difficult moment. Worth more than I can say. Have a good Friday :)