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ex husband - continued bullying, how do i stop it?

(214 Posts)
redderthanred Sat 09-Oct-10 13:36:47

We have been seperated for 20 months.
Divorce was started, but then for lots of reasons it didnt get very far.

Cant start it up again as there is no legal aid avaliable at the momment.

Anyway, he is still super bullying, agressive, controlling and horrible. The marriage was full of his constant affairs, emotional and occassional physical abuse.

He will go along being all quiet and friendly and helpful for a short while and then blow up in my face.

I automatically take the role i took in our marriage, which is to panic and then try and sort it out, what ever the cost is to me.
Or i try and rebuff for a few days, telling him i will not discus it, or i will not talk to him while he is being like that, but eventually i get dragged in.

Couple of days later i realise what i have done and that he has won again.

He also cronically lies. I know he always lies, about everything. But why do i automatically belive him, and not question it until some hours later? normally once he has fed me the lies and shouted at me?

Firstly - how on earth do i stop this happening.

Secondly, - im about to do something which i know is going to make him seriously kick off at me. How to i protect myself from the inevetiable?

Bast Sat 09-Oct-10 13:58:21

Disengage -Have no communication with him, put it in writing to him that you wish for no further communication.

Have any arrangements regarding contact (if you have DC) made through solicitors.

He can only continue his bullying of you if you allow him the means to, so don't smile

dittany Sat 09-Oct-10 14:01:33

What sort of things is he doing to you?

What is it that you are going to do that will make him kick off?

Might be worth posting on the legal threads to ask for advice about how to get a divorce with no money. What is the financial issue? Is he controlling the finances still? Does he have access to your home?

redderthanred Sat 09-Oct-10 14:15:15

I cant even speak to a solicitor at the momemnt.
There is no legal aid provision, the law society has it out to tender, and thats going to take a few months to sort out.

I do say i want no communication, but then he calls to speak to DD, and gets at me then. Or picks her up and sneaks a go in there.

Im trying to get to email only for contact.

It started last week to do with a joint loan, the mud slinging started including name calling, belitting me, laughing at me, taking the piss, telling me how to live my life and i just get drawn into it and end up thinking im in the wrong and hes right.
Takes me a few days to realise whats happened.

Hes been paying less CSA money, while claiming it was the full amount ( this is another issue) i called them, they said no, it was x amount per week, they will send him a letter.

He cornered me after swimming and said he had called them and they said it was x amount per week ( same amount i had said) its just he has been working the monthy payments out wrong from that. he called me a lair and an idiot in front of DD and my mum and i just said, ' im not discussing it now' but he just constantly gets at me.

He says things like ' im having DD for two weeks solid over xmas shit or bust' or, you have to drive up to come and collect her ( an hour away) shit or bust and things like that.

The has a go at my personality or something when i say no.

Like i said he pays less csa money, ive decided i want it all ( now ive checked with the csa and know the correct figure) and i want it paid directly into my own bank account.
He currently pays it into an old joint account and refuses to pay it to me. I have to then go in and get it out. Its a pain.

So ive asked him nicely, in an email to pay the full csa amount, into my account.

I know he will refuse, when he does im going to to the csa and get it taken at source and i know he is really going to kick off and im a little bit scared about that.
In fact im really scared about the consquences of that.

But its got to be better than how it is now. Also what he does is say he will pay for a few extras but that i have to ask. So i literlly have to beg for an extra £20 or something and he will agree, before chaning his mind and saying no, but i will give you £7 or something.. normally with some stipulation added.

Tortington Sat 09-Oct-10 14:19:29

get a mobile specifically for his calls and change your phone numbers.

i agree with a previous poster who said that he can only do this if you allow him to.

change swimming lesson days or swimming baths.

redderthanred Sat 09-Oct-10 14:33:12

its just really hard not to fall into old behavioural patterns.

You kind of do it without realising, then few days after you think 'wtf'

Changing swimming isnt going to change anything, he will still have to come get her and i will have to see him.

I just know he is really really going to kick off when i do the csa from source thing.
Like really kick off.

It worries me. There was physical abuse in the past. Why he wouldnt do anythign now, i worry about DD, or that he might like not bring her back or something to get at me,

Because i knwo he will be SO angry at me he will have to hit back.

and because there is no legal aid at the momment, i cant even say ' im not discussing this with you, go through the solicitor'

dittany Sat 09-Oct-10 14:41:01

You can say "please email or write to me with your concerns" though.

If he starts attacking you in public and you feel you need to say something, say "You're certainly entitled to your opinion" or repeat back what he has said to you e.g. "You think I am x, y or z" Those are disarming tactics. See if you can control your emotions and not allow him to panic you.

You also need to get your finances separate. Can you close down that joint account. With the loan start working at him to get him to take the whole thing on (I take it it is his debt not yours). You have to take it step by tiny step. Start thinking about what you want, even if it is very small things, it will stop him looming so large in your mind and will make this seem like a problem to solve, not an impossible task.

How often does he see your daughter? I'm wondering if he should be allowed to see her unsupervised.

Talk to Women's Aid who can give you support and advice on dealing with this.

dittany Sat 09-Oct-10 14:43:16

Also if you're afraid he will harm your daughter because of the CSA thing, you could possibly not pursue him through the CSA and just take the hit on the money, and also more long term think seriously about stopping access.

Why would you let someone who might harm your dd anywhere near her?

redderthanred Sat 09-Oct-10 14:49:37

he sees her every other weekend mostly.

I will try and say, please email me with that.
just try to not engage with him

He refuses to close down the joint account. Point blank refuses to. I do not know why.

The loan is in joint names. Though debt accruded while we were married.

He has been paying it all but has now decided i have to pay half. It is an ammount that i dont have. He told me i had to pay it shit or bust and the bank said i had to as well.

Ive been doing a bit of looking into this and will speak to the bank myself on tuesday. I can afford to make a £50 contribution, but no more and the bank will be able to reduce the monthly payment though it will take longer to pay off.

The problem is he doesnt want that and has told me im a lazy fat arse, selfish etc... that i was never nice to him, that i never loved him, that i was a bitch and a whore and he regretts even meeting me... and so it goes on.
He told me i should be working from 7am and should find childcare for out daugher from 6:30am.

Then he said he would take her off me.

He just piles the pressure on until i agree.

But im not having it any more.

The CSA money is for our daughter. im not having that messed about with, and will get it deducted from sourse.

I shall speak to the bank and see what the option are.

If we cannot agree it will have to wait until legal aid becomes avaliable. But in the end, i cannot give what i dont have, and any amount of name calling, or bullyinig from him will not change that.

redderthanred Sat 09-Oct-10 14:51:29

he never has.

But i know he will be so angry at me. He wont be seeing her for 3 weeks after tomorrow. I wont get it stopped at souce until monday/tuesday.
He will then have 3 weeks to calm down.

If i think he is behaving out of control i will not let her go to his.

Thistledew Sat 09-Oct-10 14:56:19

You need to speak to a different solicitor. Legal aid is available at the moment. There is a tendering process going on at the moment which may mean some firms are not able to take on new clients but this will not be the case for all firms.

A solicitor will help you set out the terms of contact and if things are bad enough help you get a restraining order or arrange for pickups to be at a supervised centre.

In the mean time keep a diary of all the abuse he gives you and inform him that you will only communicate by text to a phone you keep specifically for that purpose.

redderthanred Sat 09-Oct-10 14:59:53

oh. the solicitors i called said noone will be taking on new clients and that that it will be middle of nov before there is an update.

redderthanred Sat 09-Oct-10 15:08:44

thing is, i did that the ' im not discussing it, it can be dealt with via solicitors' on monday.
Via text. To everything he send i just replied with that.

I got so many texts from him i tuned my phone off. But when i turned it on in the monring they all came though

and they are things like
'oh you are so pathetic and childish you wont even talk to me now'
' you need to get a grip and get over yourself'
' typical you, throwing a stop because you cant handle it'

i just ignored it all. Then he called to speak to DD later on in the day and i try and stupidly smooth it all over ( like i always do/did) i know its not good to argue for DD's sake and i try to keep things on good terms.
But then he just walks all over me and im left reeling and in tears wondering what on earth im going to do.

Its taken from then till now for me to work out in my head that the CSA money is DD's and im getting it for her.
Than he has bullyied me to get me to do what he wants
and what im going to do about it ( even though im terrified)

its 20 months on - its not meant to be like this still

dittany Sat 09-Oct-10 15:09:04

Speak to Women's Aid. Are you going to do that?

The CSA money might be your daughters money, but you're saying he's a real risk to her if you pursue it at the moment. What is more important here? I think you need to get in touch with your priorities.

As for his insults. Who gives a shit what he thinks? He's a wanker who knows nothing. Just let it all fly past you, or imagine that you're holding up a big mirror and he's actually talking to himself (he is, his insults to you are all projections of himself).

Speak to the bank again about getting the joint account closed or at least made inactive. I don't see how an account that one person doesn't want to be on can be kept open unless there is an overdraft on it.

Snorbs Sat 09-Oct-10 15:17:50

I recommend that you ask the CSA to collect the money for you and for them to pay it to you. That way he has no choice about which of your accounts it ends up in.

Ask the bank to freeze the joint account. They can do this - at least, they did for me and my ex. That will prevent the debt getting any bigger apart from interest while you sort out what to do with it.

Although you may not be able to go via a solicitor right now you can say that you will only discuss things with him in writing. And the broken record technique can be useful. No matter what he says simply answer exactly the same "I hear you. Send me a letter with your concerns." And don't engage with the insanity. Remember that it doesn't matter what you say, how strong your point is or what you agree to - he will still be an abusive nut-job and so he'll just find something else to be an nut-job about.

You cannot win with him by arguing back or by stating facts. You'd just be playing him at his game and, quite frankly, he's a hell of a lot better at it than you because he's a nut-job. The only way you can win with a nut-job is by not engaging with the nut-jobbery.

And I'd also second the thoughts of a restraining order. The local police's DV team may be able to help with that. Don't be afraid to call them if he accosts you. That is, after all, what they're paid to do.

redderthanred Sat 09-Oct-10 15:19:15

which there isnt. i shall tell them i want to close it.

Im not going to the the csa from source until DD is back.

I wont hand her over to him unless he is being ok. He has never hurt her. But i can see him doing something like keeping her a few days longer or something to spite me.

However, he is on a course(army) for about 7 weeks, and will not be able to keep her longer, and in fact is not really seeing her, bar a day during this time.

Hopefully by then it will have blown over. Course is also other end of the country with limited phone signal.

dittany Sat 09-Oct-10 15:22:26

The Citizens Advice Bureau is another place to go for advice when you don't have access to a solicitor.

redderthanred Sat 09-Oct-10 15:26:17

i said they could freeze the account and he told me they couldnt.

I suspected he was lying.

Could i be nosey and ask how you came to an arrangement with the ex/bank over the debt?

I know i cannot win with him.. He will say one thing one min, the say he didnt say that, then come out with a totally conflicting thing. I dont know why i expect him to be reasonable after all these years.

Things like womens aid and DV team scare the crap out of me. I dont want to have to do that. I feel its a really last resort, and then i alwasy feel. like i do now that im over reacting and its all in my head.

I dont want it to be like this. Why cant he just pay the damn csa money without arguing.
WHy cant he come to a reasonable decision about the loan, working though it with whats best for both of us

why does he resort to being the way he is with me.

dittany Sat 09-Oct-10 15:33:54

Women's Aid are on your side. They are the one group (they are a charity) who take women's side in their fights against violent abusive men. You should be a lot less scared of them than you are of your ex. You need support fighting him and you will be successful if you have someone on your side.

He's not going to change, you are going to have to fight, but you are going to have to fight effectively. Whilst you're saying "why does he do this that or the other" you're losing your power. Stop thinking about him and think about what you want then take steps to get him out of your way.

And don't listen to another word that your ex says about anything official. Once again he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Meglet Sat 09-Oct-10 15:39:38

Call the police (non-emergency number), see if they have a domestic violence person. Ours does and they work with the local WA.

You can get your XH fined and cautioned for the nasty texts, It worked with my XP.

Please don't worry about the DV and WA teams being scary, my local one are lovely and usually quite rude about the men. Even the police seemed to relish giving XP a bollocking.

Snorbs is right about not engaging with a 'nut-job'.

FWIW I tried mediation and a contact centre with my XP and he refused to do it, he no longer see's the DC's. I would be more worried if he was still in their lives TBH.

redderthanred Sat 09-Oct-10 15:40:11

i know he doesnt.

He knows i know hes bullshitting

if i point that out to him, that he is wrong and i know he is wrong if goes off at me.

He has always been this way with me. He used to tell me he hated me being right and it used to make him angrier than anything.
I used to laugh about it

and then it got really really unfunny.

but he will blatently lie even when ive got the proof he is wrong in my hands.

I know i cant win with him.

Its just i fall into ' keep the peace for DD's sake' mode and give in.

and then he takes the piss over somethign else again.

Ive got to stop this happening and will have to make a stand.

The CSA payments are the first.
If he behaves threatening, or abusive he will not see DD.

and that will be his choice.

I can take control back.
and i will

Its just really really scary.

Have been literally shaking about it all day. ( DD is with him)

redderthanred Sat 09-Oct-10 15:43:47

i think the DV and WA teams are scary.
Mostly because then i have to admit to someone else what actually happened and then its real.

If i dont say anything. or only do on here, where noone knows. Then i can almost pretend it didnt happen.

and that im fine.
and that ive moved on
and it hasnt left any scars

dittany Sat 09-Oct-10 15:46:56

You need support. You can't do it on your own.

You say you know he doens't know what he's talking about yet you believed him with the crap about the bank.

Read your posts back - they are all about him and his reactions and what he is going to do. That's understandable with an abusive person but to gain control you have to start acting and acting for what you want, not as a reaction to what he might do.

Almost everthing you've said has been what you can't do - you can't get a solcitor, you can't close your joint account, you dont' want to phone Women's Aid because you're scared. And the one thing that you do what to do comes with the threat of massive retaliation which actually isn't worth the risk. Money is not worht more than the possibility of your dd getting kidnapped or hurt. Now it sounds like you've got a lot to be scared about with him, but you still have to reach out for help. Don't try to do this on your own when help is available.

redderthanred Sat 09-Oct-10 15:49:53

like yesterday in the car park after swimming.

i had told him not to come into watch as we are only allowed two adults in to watch and my mum had come along to see DD swim for the first time.
He didnt arrive till 5 mins before her finishing time anyway.

My text was nice, it just said ' really sorry, but can you please not come into swimming today as we have got our max number of people... though you could watch through the window if you wanted'

He has seen her swim quite a few times before.

he replied with ' fuck you, who do you think you are'

I handed DD over in the car park. My mum got in my car and he came storming over to me and started having a go about the swimming and the csa money, calling me a lair.

I said im not discussing it here, sorry' and got in the car.

Mum said, ' my god, are you ok, he was really agressive'

hes 6ft 4 and about 19 stone.
im 5ft 2

and i know he would push me about, or throw something at me, because he has done it before.

dittany Sat 09-Oct-10 15:50:49

Well you've been brave and talked about what is going on here Red, so this has made it somewhat more real.

Anyway it is real, you can't talk or deny your way out of that.

Now I'm thinking a bit more, I think your goal needs to be to get this bastard out of your life and out of your daughters too if possible, or at the very least keep her so protected that when he does see her he can't do anything to her.

I'd forget about the money issue (apart from getting your joint finances untangled) unless you are absolutely in dire financial straits. The money is less important than you escaping from his abuse and your dd being protected from him.

dittany Sat 09-Oct-10 15:53:18

"hes 6ft 4 and about 19 stone.
im 5ft 2"

Bastard. angry

Does your mum know what is going on and how he's treated you. If she's supportive (not all mothers are unfortunately) start by telling her and asking for her support, even if its' just crying on her shoulder.

redderthanred Sat 09-Oct-10 15:54:49

he just makes me second guess myself and it takes me a few days to realise that.

he said the bank wont to do this, this is imposssible... ( when it was all things i checked online on like debt advice sites)

and then he goes, ' well, if you want to be a stupid bitch and waste you time asking the same things to get told the same answers then its up to you. yet again you dont trust me. you never trusted me. you think you know better than everone else.etc.. etc..

i did not trust him after he had affair after affair after affair. i did not trust him when i could be holding up proof of emails sent to and from women he was cheating with.. and many many other things.

but part of me wanted to believe him. i didnt want the truth to be the truth iyswim.

so i guess that is what i just fall back into. even though i know its unlikely to be true.

dittany Sat 09-Oct-10 15:59:54

This is why you need outside support - dealing with a scary lying lunatic like this will screw up your experience of reality. You need reality checks from outsiders to deal with it, and in the long run you need him out of your life so you don't have to deal with it at all.

I'm sure it doesn't help that your'e still married because he'll think on some level that he still owns you and on some level maybe you feel like you owe him something (like trust) because he's your husband.

And fuckit he thinks that he gets to decide what truth and reality are because he's over a foot taller than you and probably two or three times your weight. What a bully.

redderthanred Sat 09-Oct-10 16:02:34

people know small bits.

i dont think ive really sat down and gone though it with anyone.

Ive just been head down and making a new life for myself and DD.

I think if i told people who knew me. not only would they be really surprised as im a confident, loud, happy go lucky sort of person. i dont think they would know what to make of it.

or would wonder why i was silly enough to stay.

or would try to make light of it as a way to not talk about it. Or i try to make light of it so it doesnt seem so bad, because i dont want to burden people with it.

Im actually totally closed off about my feelings. I dont say things like that, or confide in people.

Katisha Sat 09-Oct-10 16:07:51

Ring Women's Aid. Stop being so proud about it.
And keep ringing the number because it's often engaged.
They will not bite your head off. They will give you constructive advice.

redderthanred Sat 09-Oct-10 16:07:52

because even though i know it is not my fault

i feel like it is. and like i have failed.

failed in the biggest way possible.

i couldnt even provide a family for my child.
i never wanted this.
and as much as i try to make it ok now. i still feel like i have failed.
Everyone else is married and in family units, on holiday together, or doing things.
We do things, i dont let it stop us. but its just me and DD.

Katisha Sat 09-Oct-10 16:08:28

Everyone else is NOT married.

Ring Women's Aid.

redderthanred Sat 09-Oct-10 16:10:00

feel stuipd
am being a bit pathetic


need to pull myself together really.

i wont waste womens aid time. there are people in far worse situations than me who need them more.

Im safe, im away from him.
He cant do anything.

dittany Sat 09-Oct-10 16:10:30

You don't have to confide in everybody - you're right that not everybody is going to be supportive. What about your mum though, do you think she would want to help, at least listen? She even said he was being aggressive and asked if you were OK - that does sound like a cue for you to unburden yourself.

It sounds like you went into coping mode to escape, which makes you incredibly strong to have done it by yourself, but maybe you could accept a little help now.

There's the Freedom Programme run by Women's Aid that might help

There's a book that goes along with it, which you could start by reading if you really don't want to talk to anyone in real life. And keep posting at Mumsnet - I'm sure there will be other people along who've had similar experiences too. You aren't alone.

redderthanred Sat 09-Oct-10 16:21:02

checked the course, there are noone in my area.
The book is £9.
Coping mode is what im good at.

actuall dealing with it mode is what im not so good at.

i wouldnt tell mum everything. She doesnt listen, or would some how turn in round to herself. or just tell me chin up. you out of it now. focus on the future.

so i feel like im being stupid.

I think that everyone is used to me being in coping mode and seeing this strong ' i can do anthing person' that if i were to tell someone, and actually cry, they wouldnt know what to do. In fact, i know that to be the case.

mrspnut Sat 09-Oct-10 16:21:33

Whatever story you have to tell, I can guarantee that Women's aid have heard it before.

You wouldn't be a burden to then, nor would you be wasting their time. I think you need the support of someone who knows what they are talking about and who can give you real options.

Our staff at Women's aid spend so much time just talking to the women who come to us, because that's one of the ways to help them to feel better about themselves and more able to cope with the shit their ex is giving them.

Some women's aid branches are also able to give advice via email as well, I know we often do this when women don't want to call us directly.

mrspnut Sat 09-Oct-10 16:23:13

I have hundreds of copies of that book sitting in my office, if you want one and are willing to give me your address by private messaging then I can send you one.

The books are also sold much cheaper during the freedom programme sessions.

mrspnut Sat 09-Oct-10 16:24:21

Red, not all the courses on offer are on that website. Ours isn't and we run ours in about 10 different locations including a women's prison.

NormaStanleyFletcher Sat 09-Oct-10 16:28:06

Red - I have sent you a PM

dittany Sat 09-Oct-10 16:28:41

That's fantastic about the book MrsPNut. The women who run Women's Aid are amazing.

That's a shame about your Mum Red. It doesn't sound like it's worth trying to get support from her. I'm just going to reiterate Mumsnet and Women's Aid. You've already reached out for help here. And if you told me in person what had happened to you and started crying I'd give you a hug, although I'm not very good at hugs. You shouldn't have to deal with this on your own.

tb Sat 09-Oct-10 16:40:17

Red - please contact WA. From what everyone says on here they are really supportive, and it sounds as though you need someone on your side against your ex. As for failing, YOU didn't fail - HE did. Please don't beat yourself up over it. Also, you're a good mum to your dd, because I can't imagine you behaving to her as your mum does to you.

I know we all do blame ourselves, but it doesn't help and just lets bullies get away with it even more. Yes, I know, I'm speaking as a lifelong wimp, just sometimes it's easier to see things in others that you can't in yourself iyswim.

redderthanred Sat 09-Oct-10 16:43:48

thank you mrspnut - have pm'ed you.

and have replied to your pm norma.

i dont know. its just really difficult.

I feel sad for dd. I try to keep the peace and help her build a good relationship with her dad. Which is why i back down on things or try and smooth things over.

She shouldnt have to suffer because of it.

but he is just horrble.
Like he was going on about how i should work more to pay towards this loan.

The fact that i saved a deposit for this rented house from a part time job on my own. and then found a part time school hours job, and work, and look after dd and took full responsibility of the dog. DD is doing really well, everyone tells me shes a credit to me. I work hard. Im skint, but we dont go without.
But what does he do., tell me im no good. that im crap and have fallen off my high horse as i claim partial housing benefit and he hopes i get screwed over with the new govt because im lazy and i deserve it.

The fact that i did once work full time when i had dd and was on my own to start with and actaully had a nervous breakdown is apparently more evidence im useless and a waste of space.

CarGirl Sat 09-Oct-10 16:55:49

Well the joint debt will get sorted out as part of the divorce financial settlement and it is in his interests to clear it as much as it is yours.

How old is your dd? Does he actually treat her well?

Just refuse to communicate with him, keep it to the broken record tactic - "you need to put that in writing"

Seriously get another mobile and leave him to phone/text/abuse your old number.

Snorbs Sat 09-Oct-10 16:56:15

It doesn't matter what he thinks. He's a nut-job. His opinion of you is none of your business. And it's complete bollocks to boot. Look at how much you have achieved!

And while I understand why you're trying to bend over backwards to facilitate contact between your DD and her father, no amount of bending over backwards is going to stop him being a nut-job.

It doesn't matter what you do. He's going to find something to kick off about because there is something in his emotional make up that is fundamentally broken. You can't fix it. You can't fix him. His outbursts are like a toddler having a tantrum because he's not getting his own way.

It is very common for people who are in abusive relationships to see their abuser as omnipotent. You feel that the abuser will always get their own way in the end because that's what's always happened. But it's not true. Abusers are not omnipotent, they are simply pathetic bullies that happen to know where our weak-points are and which buttons to push. He keeps up with the "you're crap" stuff because it works. He gets a reaction from you which is what he's after. Whatever you can do to avoid him getting the reaction he wants will help to break the hold he has over you.

redderthanred Sat 09-Oct-10 17:06:44

snorbs. i know.
everyone says how well ive done and what ive achieved. But he says not. That my job isnt good enough. That my house isnt big enough.

It just all falls in with all the other things i wasnt good enough at when we were together. and while i know its not true. it still gets to me and then i feel like a failure.

I wasnt thin enough, the house wasnt tidy enough, according to him i never worked hard enough ( even though i had better paying jobs than him) my interests are stupid. My opions dont count. My cooking wasnt the best, i didnt give him enough sex. If i argued i was too sensitive and over emotional. and so it goes on. just a long list of things i wasnt good enough at.

and i know its him not me.
But in that case, why is he the one who has moved on, set up home with a new girlfriend and im still picking up the peices?

I do try really hard not to react. Most i can manage is about a day and then i just cant hold it in any more. He pushes me so much i just have to come back to him.

I need to not do that. But my god, its hard.

cargirl - thats what i said about the joint debt. But he just started going off at me sayuing he is not paying it all, and he has decided and this is what is happening 'shit or bust'

its just so draining. i cant understand why its all still happening and why im havign to still fight him. I really dont have much more fight left.

TheProvincialLady Sat 09-Oct-10 17:10:17

Red, I think you are stronger than you think you are. I think you are someone who is prepared to fight for your DD no matter what. Would it help if I told you that contacting Womens Aid would be benefical for your DD, because it would stop her father harassing you, wearing you down and bullying you? If you found the strength to deal with him properly, rather than just coping, it would be harder on you in the short term but the benefits would be so great in the long term. You don't want your DD to grow up thinking it is normal for women to be this scared of a man, and for a man to treat her like this?

You sound a bit like my mum, who left my dad when I was 12. She spent years minimising what had happened and it was no good for any of us. It would have been so much better if she had admitted to people who could help us, that she needed help. You know she is still frightened of my dad, 25 years don't want to be like that. Deal with it now. I know you can.

CarGirl Sat 09-Oct-10 17:16:30

How old is your dd?

He is using the fact you are facilitating contact etc to abuse you.He knows you want the contact and believes you will not stop him seeing your daughter hence he is more than happy to use it as an excuse to abuse you.

I would join families need fathers and ask for their help to sort out contact through the courts and getting cafcass involved. You don't need a solicitor you will need money for court fees though although if you are on certain benefits the fee may be reduced or free.

Families need fathers are NOT fathers for justice and they will help you. YOu are offering fair/reasonable/fairly standard contact for your dd. Would your Mum be happy to do the handovers at her house? If so I would write to him and say that as of now he can collect dd at this time on these days for x location.

I would strongly suggest that you report all abuse and threats to the police so they are document and than set the wheels in motion to apply for sole residency rather than shared. If he at all threatens to keep/not return your dd report it to the police and use it to apply for sole residency. Again FNF will be able to tell you far more about this than I can.

My ex-BIL completely and only uses contact with his dc to abuse/control my SIL, the sooner you start reporting to the police the better.

Janos Sat 09-Oct-10 17:16:52

Red, I have read through and want to reiterate what everyone else has said.


Also, please contact womens aid. Never mind about being proud and being a coper. It's not weak to ask for help.

Yes, it is scary. But you need to do it for you and your DD.

redderthanred Sat 09-Oct-10 17:16:58

i know.

im just sick of being strong and having to do these things.

Ive spent about the last 8.5 years fighing to keep my head above water.

Im sick of having to cope. Sick of head down and get though it attitude. Sick of being stong for everyones sake.

i just wish it would all go away.

Janos Sat 09-Oct-10 17:28:56

It won't just go away though. Yes, it will be very stressful short term but long-term the benefits will be eonderful. Imagine, never having to deal with your bullying ex again. Wouldn't that be wonderful?

Janos Sat 09-Oct-10 17:30:38

So wonderful I said it twice!

dittany Sat 09-Oct-10 17:32:33

Please don't join families need fathers. The promote parental alienation syndrome, a phoney syndrome that has left children in the hands of abusive men, and they support the idea that abusive men should have access to children. Just becasue they aren't as extereme as F4J doens't mean they aren't on anybody's side except abusive men's.

You're scared this man will harm your daughter, yet you want to facilitate contact. Please think aobut why that is.

Talk to Women's Aid. They will help you.

CarGirl Sat 09-Oct-10 17:33:39

The way to make it all go away is to deal with it through official channels in addition to stopping communicating with him.

Perhaps a one line sentence to use whenever he tries to speak to you could be "if you continue to harrass me we will have to use a contact centre for handover"

NormaStanleyFletcher Sat 09-Oct-10 17:36:59

Red - if I remember you split before and then went back to try again (with all sorts of promises from him) for the sake of your DD.

I really think you have bent over backwards to give him contact, and protect your DD from confrontation, but she is likely to pick up on how he treats you.

Please get some RL support from WA or FNF. Don't try to do this on your own any more!

I have told you before that I am amazed by your strength and how much you care for your DD, but please please get some support.

redderthanred Sat 09-Oct-10 17:43:20

yes. you are right.
it needs to be dealth with correctly, legally. So he cant argue at me.

Thats one of the reasons i want the csa money taken out at source too. I can just say, deal with them. It takes it away me having to deal with him.

DD loves her dad. She gets a bit frustrated at him as he doesnt listen to what she says. I can only see this getting worse as she gets older.

i dont think he would harm her. I do think he would keep her for longer than agreed.

Im torn between wanting her to have a fab relationship with him. and trying to work with him to help that. and telling him to fuck off.

I just feel trapped really.

and being told by the solicitors there is no legal aid just left me feeling more trapped.

i also cant really understand why he feels the need to still be like this to me.
Like, why isnt he like it to everyone else? why me? why cant he just let me go and let me get on with my life.

dittany Sat 09-Oct-10 17:46:05

Where has this fashion for telling abused women to contact FNF come from?

Once again FNF support contact between violent abusive men and their children. They also accuse mothers who say that their children are being abused by violent abusive men of parental alienation syndrome. They are clearly playing on some women's false belief that a relationship with a father, even an abusive absent one who refuses to support his child and abuses their mother, is one worth trying to facilitate. Women in this sort of situation are very vulnerable and it chills me that FNF might be trying to elbow their way in here.

Women's Aid and FNF shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath and it's astonishing that they are. One of them protects women and children. The other campaigns for laws that will leave women and children in harms way.

PosieParker Sat 09-Oct-10 17:52:19

WA don't have to take your name
They don't judge you
They handle loads of calls just like yours, not so bad and a lot worse,
They give you everything you need to change your situation
They will arm you with support.

It just takes a phone call and you can make things better.


NormaStanleyFletcher Sat 09-Oct-10 17:55:05

Sorry Dittany - I didn't know. I would really recommend WA though

redderthanred Sat 09-Oct-10 17:55:27

norma - yes. i did.
i went back one. Gave up my home i had set up myself.
gave up my job, and my friends i had made and moved 75 miles up the road to be with him.
I knew noone and was in a rented army house.
I found a job, but within less than 3 months i found a secret email account with pictures of him having sex with another woman in.
I kicked him out 5 days before xmas.
I started work in the new year fully knowing i wouildnt be staying as i had 90 days before i had to vacate the property.
I saved money from that part time job and then took 2 days off. I viewed 12 properties and had 1 job interview in those two days and then moved 2 weeks later.

Within a month my dog got ran over, i fell and ended up on crutches.
a month after than i developed gall stones and spent the next 5 months in and out of hospital.
I lost my job because i was off sick so much. I had my gall bladder removed, found another job and started that after xmas.

That first year after i moved he was awful. I had to call the police several times. I stopped contact with DD because of how he was. Looking back i do not know how i dealt with it.

This year has seemed like a breeze compared to last. but its still been really really hard.

ItsGhoulAgain Sat 09-Oct-10 18:26:24

It's good that you've had to call the police for him, it means they'll have it on record. That should help you when you call their DV advisor. It's also good that you're in a rented place and have lost money - basically, you don't need to worry about the loan! I know it's weird to say everything's good because it's gone ... thing is, Red, I also lost everything due to bullying and I am in a far, far, safer place now.

I wrote an article about the effects bullying has on a person. It's the wrong circumstance for pride, because your pride is your weakness to a bully. People like that know you'll keep getting up and taking more. They know you'll be reluctant to call in help. Most of them actually pick proud, independent targets - they get a bigger kick out of breaking us, and they know we'll keep standing there for longer. So they have more fun angry

Talk to a grown-up - or several. Women's Aid exists to help women who are being bullied, they know everything there is to know about it. Your police DV unit won't dismiss your problems, they'll be able to offer sensible advice on using the law to control him & protect yourself and DD.

I completely understand about wondering "Why?" The short answer is "He's mad." We don't use that word anymore, but it's good enough - the wiring in his head is faulty, that's all there is to it. You are not dealing with a sane, rational human being; he never was. Pity his new girlfriend!

I ended up in a mental hospital. You don't have to ... Go. Go, make the calls!

redderthanred Sat 09-Oct-10 18:37:56

ghoul - i cant pay what i dont have.
Any bank will only have to look at my incomings and outgoings to see i dont have it. I am willing to pay what i can afford, but it is no where in the region of what he wants me to pay.

do you have that article avalaible? i would like to read it?

being proud and independent and resilliant isnt always good. i know. People say to me ' i dont know how you did it, i have no idea how you coped, i have no idea how you cope still, how can you keep going'
the answer is - i dont bloody know. I would very much like someone to come along and look after me and sort it all out. Thing is, that isnt going to happen. I have to keep getting up from it all, for DD's sake. I have to provide for her, to create a safe, secure, loving home. I do it for her.
When i have had nothing left to give and have been on the edge... i do it for her.

and i will continue to do it for her.

I recently started swimming lessons for her. He had said he would pay half. I enroled her adn then he said he wouldnt. I was left with the whole bill.
I will go without so she can do it.
He told me it was a waste of time, that she would not be able to follow instruction, it was unnecessary and a waste of time and eating into 30 mins of his time with her every other week. That i was a selfish bitch for doing it and was pushing her into something rubbish.
2 weeks he phoned me up nearly every day and saud they same things.
I still did it. you know what - 5 lessons later and she is swimming on her back with just one float. She loves it. She comes out and askes straight after the lesson - how many sleeps till the next lesson mummy.

I will not let him belittle her. I will not let him hold her back. I refuse to let him tell her she cant do something, or wont do something.

I do it for her.

Janos Sat 09-Oct-10 18:52:19

Grace is right you know redder. You can twist yourself in knots trying to work out why he is like this but it doesn't matter..he just is and that's all you need to know.

Logically I'm sure you know his opinion isn't important but you need to believe that in yourself.

Don't expect him to be turn around all of a sudden and be reasonable because he won't.

I understand you are worried about being pathetic - you aren't. Bloody hell, look at all you have dealt with! Of course you aren't.

I tell you what would be pathetic though...refusing all the help that is available to you because you 'don't want to bother them' or 'he's not that bad'.

You AREN'T bothering women's aid and they WILL have heard this before. They police WILL take you seriously, especially given his history.

Here's something to think on. What will happen if you don't get help? What will happen to your DD if he drives you to a breakdown (because that's what he's after doing) and you can't cope?

ItsGhoulAgain Sat 09-Oct-10 18:52:19

Good for you, Red

You're 100% right about the loan. If you go to the CAB, they can help you set up an IVA (free) which is where you pay off a quid a month or whatever you can afford. From personal experience, I'd say ignore the debt collectors if you can stomach it. After a couple of years, they start offering to settle for 50%, 30% of the full amount. After even longer, they go to court and the debt is written off. However, if your credit record is good apart from this one loan, then make an appointment with the CAB. I don't even know if you're liable for the reapyments now he's gone; they can sort all this stuff out for you & help you get your credit rating back.

A thing I wrote about my ex-boss is here. I was married to a wanker at the same time - he's been fully documented on Mumsnet!

Use the help that's available - empowerment is getting an army together wink

redderthanred Sat 09-Oct-10 19:16:07

Its a joint loan. So i supose we need to come to a joing decision i supose.
That is unlikely to happen without 3rd party help,
Or in fact it wont happen. His solution was get another job. work more hours. you are paying half ' shit or bust'

You know his attitude, him dictating to me riles me.

And actually, if i work more hours, i end up worse off. If i worked full time, id be worse off. Thats how it is at the momment for me and the current benefits set up. This will change, but its not immediatley changing.

The bank will reduce the monthly repayments he did tell me that. He just refuses to as he want it paid and over and done with.
Thing is, i cant pay the amount he wants me to.
So he either needs to accept what i can pay and accept its over a longer time.

Or make it up to the full amount himself.

There is nothing i can do about it.

I wont have a breakdown. Im fine. really. Im just having a bad day and its all getting on top of me.

I know what i need to do. I will contact womens aid for some advice and i will not let him do this.

Janos - logically i know that, of course. he just somehow finds this weak spot on me and constantly pecks at it. He knows i wont ask for help. He knows i wont tell anyone. ( weakness is failure) He knows ill keep getting up from it. Its just the constant pecking at me until i crack. Like today.
Tomorrow i will be fine.

Ive started the ball rolling. I know hes going to go ape shit at me.

I just need to prepare myself for that.

dizietsma Sat 09-Oct-10 19:46:34

How to close a joint bank account.

From a quick scan, it can be difficult to close a joint account sometimes. It does say that some banks are more amenable that others, but if you just request it frozen even, then he cannot pay your child support into it and he either pays into your account or gets into trouble with the CSA for non-payment. This can be an interim measure until you can summon up the emotional energy to get his wages garnished.

What about contact through a contact centre? Amazed no-one has mentioned it, he has been physically abusive in the past to the OP. I would not recommend unsupervised access for that reason, and that way he has no opportunity to further abuse OP.

Red, you sound (understandably) afraid to challenge him and I think this is what's blocking you finding a solicitor. At least try to find another one before giving up, yeah? Call three solicitors at least before you give up.

Please do call Women's Aid. You're not wasting their time, every woman who's been abused thinks things are "not bad enough" for help, but you are deserving of support and besides which I'm sure WA will tell you if you're wasting their time.

CarGirl Sat 09-Oct-10 19:54:27

I would just go through the CSA and do not ever ask him for an extra penny. If he offers just give him a non-committal answer such as "if you want to pay for dd to have x that's fine with me, your choice"

If you have agreed days for contact I wouldn't arrange activities for your dd on those days as it could be perceived as obstructive by a court and he will probably use it against you.

Refuse to discuss the joint loan with him - just repeat, we'll sort it out in the divorce settlement - only don't discuss it at all I mean discuss by email. Certainly don't start paying it off at the moment.

We're there any financial assets of the marriage? If there is little to sort out financially then in many ways you don't need a solicitor to sort out the divorce assuming there is no property involved.

By refusing to get involved with discussing the loan it may force him into agreeing the divorce. Please be aware though if the agreement is for him to pay half he may decide not to and you will be still chased for the debt in full. If you didn't used to work and he supported you then you may be able to argue he owes you spousal maintanance in which case you could offer to not claim it in return for him paying off the debt. Certainly worth going to CAB for free legal advice.

Janos Sat 09-Oct-10 19:54:52

Why accept it though? Why not do something, when there is help available? You don't get any awards for coping, and it seems as though there's something almost masochistic in your determination to soldier on matter what.

You say you can't cope and can't bear any more and yet you seem very reluctant to do anything that might actually help. Why is that? It might be worth thinking about.

As you know, there are no prizes in life for 'coping','getting on with things' and 'putting up with it'.

There is a great prize (in fact several) out there for the taking. It's peace of mind, it's the freedom to get on with your life, it's getting your self esteem back.

Don't be scared to take the first step to getting your life back.

No, it's not guaranteed but surely it's worth trying?

Good luck to you.

redderthanred Sat 09-Oct-10 19:57:09

i rang my old solicitors who told me legal aid was not avalaible to anyone right now, and wouldnt be until the tending had been looked at and that it was the same for all solicitors.

I thought that she would know what she was talking about.

Of course im afraid to challenge him

The man has thrown me down the stairs before. Held me up aganist a wall by my throat. Picked me up and thrown me across the bed. He used to not stop. If i refused to argue with him when i was with him nad just went to bed he sued to not let me sleep. would poke him every time i fell asleep until i gave in to him. I used to try and go in otehr rooms. and he would jsut follow. or lock myself in the bathroom and he would pick the lock. He would take my keys so i couldnt leave. Then he knew i wouldnt leave as i had dd and before her i would go back because i loved the dog.

The man just wants to break me.
He will not stop until he has. Of course i am terrified to challenge him.

CarGirl Sat 09-Oct-10 20:04:06

You are terrified of him, yet you seem to think you're not in a bad enough situation to need Womans Aid????

Please phone them, they will absolutely help you.

redderthanred Sat 09-Oct-10 20:05:13

i worked part time formost of our marriage. ( we were in germany, it was the only job i could get. it was not through choice)

He supported me.

There are no assets, just a huge pile of debt.

I dont know why i keep coping. I think again thats something to do with him.
He used to say people who asked for help were weak and pathetic. People who showed emotion were weak. People who didnt just get on with it were weak.

I supose, over time, ive just become that way. I would never bother asking him for help. Half the time he wasnt around, and the times he was there, he didnt give a shit.
As an army wife you are very much on your own.
Miles from family and friends. I found that there was a fake comradary. but actaully, wifes that did ask for help was seen as being pathetic and needy by the other wives.

Its just a mindset that i find hard to break away from i supose.

Its the way ive lived my whole adult life. To change, and i know i need to, is hard.

redderthanred Sat 09-Oct-10 20:11:02

i didnt think i was in a bad enough postion for womens aid because i no longer live with him and will be divorcing him.

I can shut the door and turn off the phone. I have somewhere safe.

There are lots and lots of women that dont even have that.

NormaStanleyFletcher Sat 09-Oct-10 20:14:59

He is still abusing/bullying/trying to control you though.

And they can help you

There is no hierarchy of how bad it is, if it is abuse, it is abuse, and I think they can help you deal with the stuff in the past too

dizietsma Sat 09-Oct-10 20:15:55

"He used to say people who asked for help were weak and pathetic. People who showed emotion were weak. People who didnt just get on with it were weak."

Of course he did, he is an abusive prick with a vested interest in stopping you from getting help! Fuck him and fuck army culture! They are wrong, plain and simple.

Just try WA, you are deserving of support and they can support you and put you in touch with agencies that will help you. You are rightfully scared of him, yes, but WA can help you deal with that, you see? They're well practiced at it.

As far as your solicitor is concerned, perhaps they were right, and perhaps they just didn't want you to find someone else to represent you. I don't know, but if things are this bad there's no harm in trying, is there? WA may also be able to help with this too.

CarGirl Sat 09-Oct-10 20:20:06

Truly I think WA will have contacts and advice no one else can provide.

If you only have debts and no prospect of owning a home in the next 8 years then it may be worth you looking into the legal option of bankruptcy - I don't mean that but I can't think of the name of the stage before that. You have nothing to lose, if your ex wants to buy a home in the future he will have to pay off the debt if you can't afford to.

Please do not trust this man to do the right thing financially he could screw you and leave you with the debt to pay.

Get your joint account frozen before he gets that overdrawn.

Janos Sat 09-Oct-10 20:22:24

Yes, what Norma said.

It is bad enough.

Why don't you think so?

Why are other people's opinions of you more valid than your own emotional and physical wellbeing?

Why do you think it's acceptable to put up with being used as a punch bag and take any amount of the creepy abusive shit mr nutjob dishes out to you?

Are your feelings and opinions not important? Don't they matter?

Stop thinking about everybody else. What about you?

dittany Sat 09-Oct-10 20:35:57

This is exactly the kind of time when Women's Aid get involved. Leaving a man like this and cutting your ties with him can be the most dangerous time. You are incredibly brave and strong to have escaped from him and to have called the police on him all those times you did, but you don't have to do this alone. Just to be with people who understand what you are talking about and understand the situation you're in will help.

And I'm sorry, but from what you've said about what he's done to you there is no way you should be letting your daughter see him. Let her decide when she's an adult and can make the choices to keep herself safe from him if she needs to. Children in families where there is DV are about 60% likely to be abused themselves. Please protect her whilst keeping yourself safe.

dittany Sat 09-Oct-10 20:38:16

Also you're not a failure. He is. He's failed as a husband, father and as a man. Don't listen to a single word of any of his criticisms. He doesn't know what he's talking about.

Snorbs Sat 09-Oct-10 21:28:48

"Once again FNF support contact between violent abusive men and their children."

Dittany, please take that pathetic and offensive lie and fuck the fuck off. This is not the place for your ridiculous fantasies about what FNF do, what it tries to achieve and what it actually stands for.

dittany Sat 09-Oct-10 21:39:04

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

CarGirl Sat 09-Oct-10 21:45:34

Sadly I have seen parent alienation in action to the point where the child did not believe the social worker/cafcass officer when they told the child that her father did pay maintenance and they had the paperwork to prove it! He wasn't an abusive man, his ex (the person who I was actually friends with originally) had serious mental health issues and lived a fantasy.

dittany Sat 09-Oct-10 21:51:28

Parental alienation is a non-existent, non recognised syndrome (except by sexist organisations like FNF) that was invented by discredited psychiatrist Dr Richard Gardner, a man who also defended paedophilia whilst at the same time claiming it didn't exist: -gardner-548246.html

If FNF had a shred of decency they'd remove all references to the phony syndrome and to the "monster" (the words of The Independent) Richard Gardner on their website, instead he and the syndrome are plastered all over it.

You're not a psychiatrist cargirl, and I'd ask what your motivations are coming on a thread telling a woman who has been on the receiving end of extreme violence from an obviously dangerous man that she should approach a men's rights organisation like FNF. Because for the life of me I can't understand why you'd do such a thing.

Snorbs Sat 09-Oct-10 21:56:46

Dittany if you have a single case where FNF has demonstrably advocated contact between a known violent man and his children then, please, make it public.

Until you do then I will persist in my belief that you're talking out of your arse on this subject.

Janos Sat 09-Oct-10 21:56:49

Er, I'm not the thread police or owt but if people want to debate FNF/parental alienation might it not better to post elsewhere?

CarGirl Sat 09-Oct-10 21:58:36

What I'm saying is that I have seen a mother with residency (then it was custody) completey brain wash her children into believing their father didn't pay maintenance, didn't care about them, and that they shouldn't see him anymore.

I knew all the parties involved, I knew them before the split, during the split, after the split - mother going out clubbing trying to pull, trying to get her then dh to have an affair with a colleague, changed her name by deed poll, changed her children' names without permission against the their wishes, and a whole heap more, it was hideous.

Please don't say there are no mothers out there who stop their ex seeing their children out of spite/delusion/entitlement.

If I knew red in person I would encourage her to stop facilitating contact. Irecommend FNF because they have lots of legal information on there free of charge.

dittany Sat 09-Oct-10 22:07:19

Not hard to find Snorbs.

They don't think domestic violence should have a bearing on whether a child sees a violent abusive man: t/cmhaff/263/263we09.htm


Children should be allowed to spend time with both their parents and their wider family unless this presents a risk to the child. If there is thought to be a risk to someone else, other means to protect him or her should be used. Decisions about the benefits to children of relationships with their parents should be based on an assessment of the future risks and benefits and only on what has happened in the past if that is relevant to the future.
Children should be required to see a parent in a contact centre, or under supervision, only where there is evidence that otherwise there would be a risk to the child. The objective should be to assess that risk and this should be followed by normal and free contact unless there are clear indications otherwise."

The weird thing is that mothers who are beaten by their children's fathers get threatened with having their children taken away by SS. The violent man though, he has "rights" to see his child.

dittany Sat 09-Oct-10 22:10:01

Now you've read the background of Parental Alienation Syndrome and Richard Gardner, and also the fact that FNF support violent men seeing their children, are you going to stop telling abused women they should contact them cargirl?

DinahRod Sat 09-Oct-10 22:24:14

You've reached out on here and you can reach out to WA too, it's just the same.

They won't force you to do anything you don't want to do, but step-by-step, one simple action at a time, they can help you separate your life from your ex-hb.

Imagine having that list of steps and one-by-one they are ticked off. The relief.

You've made the biggest and bravest decision in leaving him. Brilliant. These are just the next logical steps and I have every faith you can do it, for you and for your dd.

NormaStanleyFletcher Sat 09-Oct-10 22:51:36

Dittany an Cargirl

Do you think this is the thread for your ... erm... conversation?


NormaStanleyFletcher Sat 09-Oct-10 22:53:19

oh and snorbs

Can you all go and argue somewhere else?

Ironwilledmama Sun 10-Oct-10 00:08:24

I recognise the place you are in emotionally as I was there most of last year. I feel you are making decisions from a place of fear and this is why you are reluctant to seek the help and support that you clearly need.
I was advised by my family and friends to seek support from WA and solicitors and although I did to an extent, I didn't follow it up.
A year on, I can see clearly and of course I should have done everything in my power to feel safe from my bully ex. The only way I can describe it is that I was emotionally paralysed with fear, I was worn down and although I knew what was happening to me wasn't right, I felt I couldn't move any which way, as if I just stayed still the bully would just get distracted and move on. But it doesn't work like that. It plays right into their hands. I have no doubt from what you have wrote that you need support, when you have that, you will allow yourself to dare to take the focus off him and work on becoming stronger. Once you are stronger you will realise you and your dd don't have to live like this. Please get every bit of support/help available, it's not going to get any better if you don't. x

BatsInTheSnowglobe Sun 10-Oct-10 03:02:43

I too can understand to a degree how you must be feeling. I had an XH who after I left stalked me and continually harassed me. One day he turned up on the doorsteps of the flat i was renting. I was so scared and didn't know what to do. I phoned the police for advice and burst into tears on the phone to them with worry as they said it was a public right of way so they couldn't remove him, but advised i went into the station that night for a chat and further advice. After a 6 hour chat they informed me on the information I had given they intended to arrest XH for harassment. They took all my mobile as i had kept all the texts and copies of emails as proof. I told them I didnt want to press charges as i only wanted advice on how to make it stop. They gave him a warning and he wasnt to contact me as if he did he risked getting arrested again and charged. I felt so scared when they arrested him. But it was the best thing I ever did, as it made it all stop.

i appreciate it is harder for you as you have your DD (i had no DC's making it easier for me) but maybe consider contacting all forms of advise. The police where fantastic with me and couldn't have done more to help. I thought I was over reacting phoning them but they reassured me I definitely hadn't.

Not sure if this helps but i really hope everything works out for you.

redderthanred Sun 10-Oct-10 09:37:21

iron - yeah. thats exacally it. I know i should have gone to the csa and got it taken out from source. But i didnt want to because i knew it would make him angry and i am scared of his reaction. So instead i do nothing.

I back down over everything because im scared of his reaction.

Like - a few weeks ago he told me he was going away for 7 weeks up north. We came to an agreement where he could see DD for 3 weekends in a row before he goes, then just one in the time he is away as its a 4 hour drive for him to come back on the weekend and then as soon as he is back. That was all agreed. He phoned me up out of the blue and was very cross he said he had changed his mind and he wanted to stick to every other weekend but that would mean i would have to drive DD halfway ( 45 mins each way for me) on the fri and the sunday. for 3 weeks. I told him i could not afford to do that.
He went mental at me. Shouting, calling me names. telling me i was stopping him seeing his child. telling me i was a selfish bitch. I kept saying, if you give me petrol money i will do it, i just cant afford to do it. I dont have the money. 3 days he just kept on at me. But in the end he went back to what we originally agreed.
But it was awful.

He did it again last week. Called me up and said im having DD over xmas from teh 17th to the 23rd then the 26th to the 30th. ' Shit or bust'
I had to say it wasnt fair, that i wanted to see her too, that she would want to see me too. it took 4 days. 4 DAYS and i managed to get him to agree to evening of 19th till afternoon of 23rd. Then 26th to 29th. But he was again calling me all names under the sun. Shouting. Telling me his decision was final.

Then the way he tells me about the loan repayments. He calls me up and says' DD is starting school in jan, yes?'
so i say yes
then he says ' so she will be at school full time'
so i say yes.
Then he goes ' thought so, thats definate then . You will go and find a full time job and pay half of this loan as im sick of supporting you while you sit on your lazy arse and work part time'

Followed by a string of abuse.

To which i panic and try and come up with a solution that stops him getting at me.

ANyway - ive not slept. Just had constant nightmares about all things i had forgotten.

Im feeling very vunerable and sad today. and a little bit shakey. I have to go and drive the 45 mins and pick dd up. And i know he is going to have a go at me. So i need to pull myself together before then.
Plus i need to cut the grass and do some housework before DD arrives.

Snorbs Sun 10-Oct-10 09:59:18

Here's something that I used to find useful when my ex would phone up to give me an earful of abuse. I had a post-it note near my phone which said "Is there ANYTHING you could be doing that is more fun than having this conversation?" Given that there are a billion and one things that are more fun than being screamed at down the phone (cleaning the oven, performing my own haemorrhoid surgery etc) it helped to remind me that I was only listening to the abuse through choice. And I could change my mind and choose to put the phone down and do something I enjoy instead.

You don't have to sit and listen to a phone call that has turned into a tirade of abuse. You are allowed to say "I'm not listening to your abuse" and simply put the phone down. It can be scary the first time you do it as you don't know what's going to happen next but it's also very liberating. It also gets a lot easier the more times you do it.

The first few times you do it he'll probably phone right back and if he does then you can choose whether to pick up the phone (I wouldn't as he'll just try to start up again where he left off) or ignore it.

It's about taking back control over your own life. You can't control him and his nut-jobbery, but you can control how much influence it has over your life.

Another tip: negotiate contact in writing. Or if you have to do it over the phone, as soon as he picks up the phone then tell him that you are recording the call (just put your phone on speakerphone and use a tape recorder - make sure you record the bit where you tell him he's being recorded). If he knows he's being recorded then he might be a bit more careful. If not (as in my ex's case) then you get the abusive tirade on tape and can take it to the police.

You can do this. You can take back control for your own life. You've achieved so much all by yourself for your DD. Now try putting a little of that fight and strength into achieving something that will make your life better.

CarGirl Sun 10-Oct-10 10:01:57

Please, please stop answering the phone to him, get a 2nd mobile phone so you can have your current one on silent - don't reply to his texts restrict it to email only. If he turns up at your home other than to collect your dd phone the police - you are very scared of him, he has harmed you in the past.

Please phone WA and contact your local police domestic unit they will help you. SIL has eventually got some sort of anti-harrasment order, ex BIL was arrested for a 2nd time due to a night of abusive texts. The police will act but it does take time and repeat incidences.

Even if he gets a solicitor you can reply to solicitor letters without having your own.

Alternate weekends, half the school holidays and one night per week is fairly standard contact you are not being unreasonable. Let him rant about the loan, did you have a family car, furniture etc - what happened to that? If he has it you're entitled to car - he is just using it to be abusive and intimidate you.

ValiumSingleton Sun 10-Oct-10 10:05:39

Two years ago I could have written your post. I left my x 3 years ago and yet 'freedom' didn't come immediately because I carried on trying to reason with him, present my side, appeal to his better side. Ha! confused

The ONLY way forward I realise a year down the line, living hundreds of miles away but still not free, is to STOP communicating with him, stop defending yourself, stop trying to reason with him.

It's a very hard habit to break. And at first you feel like an even bigger doormat than you were in your marriage when you don't reply to his texts, messages, emails telling you what an incompetent fool you are blah blah blah. You slip in to auto-pilot, trying to reason with him, but break that habit.

the only thing I ever did which seemed to penetrate my x's forcefield of arrogance was to be the one who made the decision to cease all communication. I am very lucky that my parents take on this role when it comes to the children. He wouldn't DARE treat them the way he speaks to me and controls me.

redderthanred Sun 10-Oct-10 10:08:09

i do do the saying im not listening to this and hanging up sometimes.
not all the time.
which is probably why he continues to do it.

I know this is one of my faults. My sister said this to me, my dad is more than crap, and my mum - well. thats another story. But my sister said, i get all angry, say im not going to talk to them. or not listen to it any more and then, few days later i do.

I think its because i want them to behave better. I keep giving them chances to redeem themselves. Or to be reasonable.

Once Ex husband has told me that he has told his new gf everything that happened ( dont believe this for a second) and that he wasnt a very good husband and treated me badly.
I said. no - you werent. Are you sorry.
and he goes - no. im not, you deserved it.


prettyfly1 Sun 10-Oct-10 10:08:23

Guys stop the discussion of wa v fnf on this thread it is totally out of order and unproductive and if you both care so much about the rights of children in violent or abusive circumstances perhaps recognising the needs of THIS poster without a bunch of political crap.

OP your ex doesnt own you, owe you or have the right to make you live in fear. Call WA. You have been brave and strong up till now and calling them wont make it real. It will help it to end!

Keep us updated.

redderthanred Sun 10-Oct-10 10:14:32

i do try and reason with him.
when i know hes totally unreasonable.

and yes, it is really hard to not do that.

But i need it to stop.

Ive gone down the -' all correspondance will be via email' thing before. I gave reasons ' that is best as we both have it in writing so noone gets confused etc'
you know what
he refused to do that, said he wasnt going to be dictated to by me and would only speak to me on the phone.

My solicitor at the time said that wasnt a divorce issue and we should just sort it out.

CarGirl Sun 10-Oct-10 10:15:38

Red you're now saying that you keep giving them chances to redeem themselves. If you're recognising that than keep telling yourself that he isn't and it doesn't matter and you don't care!

You could play "abuse bingo" run a sweepstake with how many attempts in a week he will try to put you down and what method he will try!!!

Have you got a door chain? He may up the anti when he collects your dd, I would have your dd ready to go a few minutes before the time he is due - open the door, hand over your dd shut the door. If any abuse starts phone the police. If he starts before you've handed over your dd shut the door again, use the chain tell him that he needs to stop or you will be calling the police.

I know it's very hard but he isn't going to change he will continue to be like this and you need to show a consistant zero tolerance approach to him. Try and visualise him as the pathetic man child he really is.

CarGirl Sun 10-Oct-10 10:18:58

"Ive gone down the -' all correspondance will be via email' thing before. I gave reasons ' that is best as we both have it in writing so noone gets confused etc'
you know what
he refused to do that, said he wasnt going to be dictated to by me and would only speak to me on the phone."

Exactly he wants the power and control, don't reason with him just refuse to answer texts and the phone to him. What's the worst he can do - take you to court to come to a fixed contact order? TBH that is what you need because then he can't ask you to move contact which gives him no reason to contact you other than to say he won't be having your dd for a contact visit.

redderthanred Sun 10-Oct-10 10:22:37

cargirl - i know. I think its some pervse thing i have that i feel that i failed and picked to be with someone so awful. That there is a nice person in there somewhere.

Thats my crap issue which doesnt help things.

ha - abuse bingo. Yeah. Its been a bit full on this last month/6 weeks. Just one thing after another really.

I dont have a door chain. He has in the past jammed his foot in the door. That was over a year ago. He did that and i said he wasnt taking DD that day. He proceeded to stalk round the house, climbing over the back fence trying to get in for about an hour. I locked and shut everything. Closed the curtains. In the end my mum and step dad came and got rid of him.

I didnt call the police as i was terrified what would happen if i did.

After today though, i wont have to see him for 3 weeks.

CarGirl Sun 10-Oct-10 10:25:16

Have you asked your GP to refer your for NHS counselling/therapy it should help you sort out your self esteem issues.

You have 3 weeks to do some research, get a new phone (just a cheapy and switch sim cards), speak to WA, speak to the local domestic violence polic etc etc.

If he ever hangs around the house like that please phone the police.

Ironwilledmama Sun 10-Oct-10 10:25:45

I think you're nearly there emotionally, you have to be, because if you go on like this you're headed for a break down. I know because I was seriously on the edge before enough was enough.

You seem able to challenge him on his unreasonable requests to an extent, but still seem to think you have to be abused in order for him to back down a little.

The last time I spoke to my ex was May last year, he shouted and screamed abuse at me so bad, I fell to my knees, shaking, I will never forget it. But I knew I could no longer speak to him after that. This actually suited him as he preferred to hide behind threatening texts, constantly threatening he would go to a solicitor if I didn't let him see dd an extra hour here, or night there. Everytime I got a text I would start shaking, which sounds ridiculous to me now, but I was so worn down then.

I tried different things, I told him as he wanted to see dd so much, he could have her everytime he was off work, effectively calling his bluff, of course he went mad, how dare I suggest that. He didn't want her when I said, just the specific times he said!

Anyway it went on for months and was exhausting, it came to a head when I started a new job and decided if I wanted to keep it, it had to stop. I wrote to him detailing the times and dates of his bullying messages, the contradictions in them and if he carried on the bullying, intimidation, threats etc, he would not be able to comunicate with me in any way, he could go to a solicitor if he wanted contact with dd, and I would communicate with them only. I also said any text he sent me would immediately be forwarded to my dad who would decide if he was happy with the tone. The texts after that were very polite as you can imagine.

You have to stop communicating with him in person or by phone, (my ex waits on the driveway for dd and she goes out to him) my solicitor told me if we weren't able to have open communication,ie. in person or phone calls, which we weren't as he was abusive to me, then contact times had to be rigid, no flexibility for him.

This is what you need to do, get everything set in stone, give him no opportunity to be abusive to you, if he wants to be a dad, he needs to stop being abusive to his childs mother. I so want you to take some decisive steps now, when you do you'll be like me and wish you had sooner. This week you can change things! x

prettyfly1 Sun 10-Oct-10 10:28:31

God that sounds like a terrifying experience. I have to ask, if you feel too afraid for you, is there no way you could try for your daughter? WA wont do anything without your permission so just asking for advice wont have any consequences other than those you chose to experience when you feel stronger. I second cargirls advice for councelling - you need to build your strength and confidence for your little family and they can really help.

BrightLightBrightLight Sun 10-Oct-10 10:29:17

can i just stick my oar in here.

You need to start documenting his behaviour towards you.. every time he abuses you, every time he threatens you, the time of every phonecall, keep the txts... document EVERYTHING.

Then go to the police and report him for harassment and abuse.

There are people there to help you, you dont have to be scared of him.. just ask for the help!

Snorbs Sun 10-Oct-10 10:38:00

"i do do the saying im not listening to this and hanging up sometimes.
not all the time.
which is probably why he continues to do it."

Exactly. Think of him like a tantrumming toddler. If you don't hold a consistent line then he'll push and push and push.

It took me a while to learn to stand firm and behave in a business-like manner in the face of my ex's abuse. But I got there in the end. What took longer for me to learn was to continue with the firm, business-like manner even when my ex was being nice. Instead I used to let my guard down and then >pow!< when the abuse started again it took me completely by surprise.

I understand your desire to give people second chances. But how many chances have you given your ex? As the saying goes "The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing while expecting different results." You keep giving him chances while expecting that, one day, he's going to suddenly see the light and realise he's been a twat.

He won't.


There's a very good book called "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie. It's primarily aimed at people who are (or have been) in relationships with people with addictions but it addresses a lot of the issues you raise here. I think it could help you a lot with learning to let go of expectations that he will change, or your belief that you can influence his behaviour.

And, as with everyone else here, I think you should call Women's Aid. And/or maybe talk to your GP. I found one-on-one counselling fantastically useful for me when I was extricating myself from my abusive relationship. I think it might help you, too.

CarGirl Sun 10-Oct-10 10:42:02

Everytime he sends you an abusive text or answer phone message have a secret smile to yourself that this is one more piece of evidence that the police will use against him.

Rigid contact isn't nice but it's a means to an end and it's a way of stopping the abuse. Ultimately you could refuse contact and tell him to take you to court but I would only suggest that as a last result and once you have sufficient evidence against him that he is abusive and the police have acted on it.

redderthanred Sun 10-Oct-10 10:52:47

sorbs - thats it. he is nice for a while. and then - bam! and i get really confused by it and then he tells me it is my fault for ruining it as we had been getting on so well before.

Yeah - the foot in the door house thing was awful. I was so tense It triggered my first and only ever day time gall baldder attack ( and the worse one i have ever had. and i ended up in a&e and being admitted into hospital for a few days on morphine and oxygen and a drip.

I have text him to confirm pick up time later an hour ago. he has not responded. Nor has he responded to the email. I expect the reason he has not respoinded to the text is because he has got the email and is angry.

It doesnt matter. I shall go and collect DD at the time ive said, and what was agreed on friday.

I will call womens aid. and im playing hard ball now. Ive had enough of this. I realised that yesterday, which is why i posted. Because im sick of it.

I will not let him ruin the rest of my life. He needs to play by the rules. not his own rules.

I know he will be furious, and he is going to get more angry as i refuse to take it and as i take steps to ensure it doesnt happen. But thats his problem.
Womens aid will be able to help, and the help from MN has been/ and is great.

Fuck him

dittany Sun 10-Oct-10 10:59:50

"He needs to play by the rules. not his own rules."

"im playing hard ball now"

It's still about him. You need to disengage. Forget about what he does, what do you want? Your main aim should be to end this fight so there aren't any winners or losers, but rather no fight at all. Get out of the ring.

I still think you'd be better looking long term at getting him out of both yours and your dd's lives. He's dangerous. Once again children in families where there has been violence are highly likely also to be attacked or abused by the abuser.

DameGladys Sun 10-Oct-10 11:04:35

I hate him simply for using the phrase 'shit or bust' continuously.

I mean wtf does that even mean?

He might as well wear a sandwich board saying ABUSIVE CONTROLLING ARSEHOLE.

Stay strong, don't engage and document everything. So glad to hear you're going to call WA.

redderthanred Sun 10-Oct-10 11:11:56

damegladys - i know. i hate that too. It basically means ( i think) you do as i say or there will be trouble? or this is what is happening and if you dont like it its tough.

dittany - well how do i disengae without a fight.
If i set up parameters ( like getting the csa deducted at source) there will be a fight from him. That is me playing hard ball and doing something i want - to ultimatley distance myself from him. But there will still be a fight.

Im worried that he has not responded to the text checking the pick up time.

Im thinking i should maybe ask my mum or someone to come with me when i go.

ScaryFucker Sun 10-Oct-10 11:20:20

take somebody with you today, please

Tiddlybear Sun 10-Oct-10 11:21:05

red- you are where I was about 6 months ago - and I hope I am on the other side now.

I started communication only be email and text. He was really unhappy for a while and I had him, his family telling me how ridiculous I was for not being able to talk to him which was apparently in my children's best interests.
He got his solicitor to write tome to say he was unhappy.
I always had a third person for handovers or if there was noone I met him in a public place. I would just tell him that dc's had insisted on going to park and we would meet him there.
I was really stressed for a while and felt really guilty for being apparenty "incapable" of normal communication but it took the heat out of the situation.
I also now don't reply to emails/texts for a number of hour or draft a reply and then reread. Again that takes the power away from him- he would text something inflammatory about money or contact. He wa of course being unreasonable and I woud get angry/upset and send a long reply illustrating clearly that he had got to me.
When tou have clamed down - it is much easier to say. "No that doesn not suit, we will continue with out orignal plan e.g

I also got stuck in the trap of letting my guard down when he acted "normal" for a short time and have to learn not to do that. Iam sure it is a sign of codependance (which I am guilty of) but it is also a sign of a nice person who wants to see the best of people.

My ex also has a heavlily pregnany girlfriend so now that he is getting no reation from me - he is probably sadly now abusing her sad

ValiumSingleton Sun 10-Oct-10 11:23:36

Redder, you say "I think its because i want them to behave better. I keep giving them chances to redeem themselves. Or to be reasonable."

You have to let go of this. You can't make another person be reasonable. you just CAN'T. I tried too. I was stuck in this groove you're stuck in for a couple of years. I continually used to think that if I could just get him to see, just get him to listen, just get him to think about, just get him to admit, blah blah blah blah.... NOTHING I SAID EVER GOT THROUGH TO HIM. NOTHING. Sorry to shout at you there.

The only way forward is to stop communicating with him. I think you need to get an intermediary, a friend or your sister, somebody to arrange the handovers. DISENGAGE.

THAT IS THE ONLY POWER YOU HAVE. You can't make him treat you well, but he can't make you have a relationship with him if you don't allow it. DISENGAGE. I have done it and I never thought I would.

And do you know, after 2 years of not communicating with my x, that toxic thing between us as withered. He's still a rotten person, but he's somebody else's rotten person now. I don't know, I don't care. He sees the children every six weeks or so and luckily thankfully I have somebody else to do the communication that that entails.

I really recommend you URGENTLY get somebody else to do this for you. The ONLY power you have with a man like this is to disengage.

PosieParker Sun 10-Oct-10 11:32:10

On Friday I called the Samaritans, I wasn't suicidal, I wasn't having a panic attack, I wasn't going to hurt myself or anyone else. But I needed some help and so I called them, they were helpful. If you just phoned women's aid you would know that you are in need, they can help. If after 2 minutes you decide that they can't help and you feel foolish then you can say thanks and hang up.

redderthanred Sun 10-Oct-10 11:52:23

Mum is coming with me later.

valium- yeah. what i would like is for him to say - yep - i did this and this to you. and i am sorry.
Of course, that is never going to happen.

Like i said, he is away for 3 weeks now. He will have no internet access and mim phone access.

I am going to use this time to take steps to distance myself.

The cas will be phoned on tuesday.

I will speak to womens aid.

I will send an email setting out the agreeded contact for the rest of the year and will say that from now all contact is to be agreed via email.

Thank you - because you have all helped with that.

The only problem area i see is when he calls to speak to DD.

I have tried to get him to call certain days at certain times and he refuses to stick to it.

What he now does is just randomly call. If i dont pick up - ie am upstairs or something, he just calls and calls. then calls the mobile.
if say im out or something, and dont hear my mobile i then get a text ususally saying something like ' ffs i cant even talk to my child now'
or ' why are you not at home im trying to talk to my child'

so again its a source of conflict. Sometimes DD will talk to him, sometimes she wont. Again he seems to think that is my fault. Shes 4. its noones fault.
I have tried over and over again telling him webcam would be good. he would be able to see her and she could see him. He says yes and then does nothing about it. But then complains at me.

anyone got any bright ideas on dealing with this>?

ScaryFucker Sun 10-Oct-10 11:55:16

< very quick hijack >

PP, you ok ?

PosieParker Sun 10-Oct-10 12:10:28

SF....Fine, usual marital bliss and PMT (terrible raging/crying PMT, need to return to GP as it literally makes me feel I am going mad and it would be nice if DH had a teeny tiny bit of understanding and stopped 'joining in').

PosieParker Sun 10-Oct-10 12:10:54

Thank youxxsmile.

Snorbs Sun 10-Oct-10 12:35:14

Regarding phone calls, the way I have organised it with my ex is that I will ensure our DCs will be available for calls at 7pm.

Phone calls from my ex at other times will be accepted if convenient (and my DCs want to talk) but, if not, I remind her that the DCs will be available at 7pm.

I do encourage my DCs to call their mum whenever they want. They don't often want to but that's up to them. If at 7pm my DCs don't really want to talk to their mum then I encourage them to at least say hello. But I don't force them.

The way I try to organise things is on the basis of if my plans work for me and my DCs then that's what is going to happen. If that plan happens to also work for my ex then, great, everyone's happy. If not then so sad, too bad, not my problem.

I generally advocate as much cooperation and give-and-take as possible for child contact but if your ex is an abusive nut-job then it's pointless. Cooperation needs both people to cooperate. You can't do it on your own.

ScaryFucker Sun 10-Oct-10 12:40:02

look after yourself PP

redderthanred Sun 10-Oct-10 12:48:01

so every day they are avalaible for calls.
What if you go out? what if they are out.
What if they are asleep>

DD is almost 5. Shes in bed by 7pm.
We are normally in, on the odd occassion we are not, maybe once a month, or twice. we are at someone house having tea, or out for tea,.
Which usually means its then home and bed straight away.

DD wont talk on a mobile. ONly a land line. i dont know why, shes 4!

or sometimes he calls and she is in the bath, or eating her tea or something, then he gets angry at me.

But he wont do a set time/day so i cant just not do anything on the off chance he might call.

I have of course tried explaining this to him. But you can probably guess it makes no difference, he just says you are stopping me, i shall call when i like.

DD sometimes shouts at him saying things like ' im eating my tea now daddy, call me when i have finished'

pp - dont know the story but hope you are ok.

CarGirl Sun 10-Oct-10 12:50:38

On a positive note about courts, ex-bil took sil to court for the 3rd time to change the fixed contact agreement, again he hadn't prepared a statement supporting his case to have daily contact (a way of controlling sil) - Judge said you've had your chances, he said "but the children want it (they don't)", Judge said "children don't always get what they want"

With regards to phone calls I would just suggest that you only make her available on the phone once or twice per week at a specific time such as Friday or Saturday when she's not with him at 6.30pm - you turn "his" mobile on at 6.25pm turn it off at 6.35pm if he hasn't phoned.

I think you can usually get one free landline number change to stop harrassment.

redderthanred Sun 10-Oct-10 13:01:25


Ive tried that. I said 3 times, or even 4 times a week. As long as i knew the day and the time.

But he wont agree to that.

he prefers to randomly call as then he can shout at me if im not in or if DD is in the bath or something.

Ive been trying for over a year to get him to agree, but ive just given up.

Im not in any way trying to stop him talking to dd. Its just if we are out, we are out. Or if she is in the bath, then she is in the bath.

Snorbs Sun 10-Oct-10 13:02:35

7pm works for us with our usual evening routine as my DCs are older than yours. You can, of course, change it to whatever time works best for you and DD. 5pm?

If we're out then I'll usually send my ex a text saying "We're not at home, either call my mobile at 7pm to speak to the DCs or I'll get them to call you back at <whenever we're planning to be home>". If your DD won't talk on a mobile then fair enough it'll have to wait until you get home.

"I have of course tried explaining this to him. But you can probably guess it makes no difference, he just says you are stopping me, i shall call when i like."

See, this is the thing. There's no point giving loads of reasons and explanations. He's not going to listen to reason. Would you give a tantrumming 3yo a long explanation why their tantrum is unreasonable? Instead, tell him that he can call at 5pm and then he has the choice whether to take you up on that or not.

You can't stop him calling whenever he likes. You can choose to answer the phone or not. If he phones at 5pm then hand the phone straight to DD. If he phones at other times ignore it. If he sends a text, reply saying "I will not respond to text messages from you. Please put your comments in an email".

And, he's absolutely right - you are stopping him phoning whenever he wants. He doesn't have a right to insist that you put him through to DD whenever he wants and without regard for what else you are doing.

CarGirl Sun 10-Oct-10 13:05:20

You don't ask him!

Write to him saying that dd will be available on x day(s) at x times to receive phone calls from him. Calls at other times will not be answered.

Don't try to reason with him. Tell him this is when she is available it's his choice to phone or not. When he rings a switched off mobile and he no longer has you home phone number he won't be able to do this to you anymore.

He does not need your home phone number, if he threatens to take you to court so what it doens't matter.

If he has a solicitor copy all the letters to him, it will cost your ex money to use a solicitor - his loss!

I'm sure your ex would not agree to you phoning your dd in "his" time would he?

DameGladys Sun 10-Oct-10 13:05:40

I'm not really experienced in all this, but one thing jumps out at me.

Stop trying to get him to agree to things.

He can't control the world.

If you say he is only to call between, say, 5pm and 6pm then you don't pick up the phone when he rings at other times. Let the phone ring and ring. Let your mobile ring and ring (though I'd change my mobile number, then that problem is solved).

If he hides his number then get an answerphone and screen calls where the number doesn't show up. If he calls from another number at the wrong time, just put the phone straight down.

He will rant and rant about all the above but if you simply refuse to discuss it (and the arrangements were fair in the first place) then he WILL eventually have to give up.

If you are out, then tough you are out. You could email him notice of this or simply say, sorry, sometimes we are out. Then that also covers you if DD doesn't fancy talking to him - just don't pick up.

DameGladys Sun 10-Oct-10 13:07:52

xposts with snorbs and cargirl saming exactly the same.

I personally would change my land line number and get a mobile specifically for his calls to DD. I'm sure she can be persuaded to use it eventually. Then it can be switched off at other times.

redderthanred Sun 10-Oct-10 13:13:15

yep that all makes sense.

I think im just caught in the trap of not wanting to be seen to be hindering contact between them. doing the best for dd. and avoiding upsetting him.

I could just say in an email, that DD will be avalaible for calls on say tue, wed, thur from between 4:30pm and 5:30pm. But that on some odd occassions we may not be in.

And i answer the phone if it rings during this time.

If he rings outside this time i dont.

If he texts me crap then its tough and i ignore it.

If he is abusive on the phone the next time he calls then he gets hung up on.

Eventually he will get the message.
its like a 0 tollerance thing isnt it.

CarGirl Sun 10-Oct-10 13:15:54

Yes zero tolerance, I wouldn't give him an hour slot, I'd give him half an hour max at a time that is going to be fine on most days. Why are you giving him 3 days really 2 will be plenty.

Also plan ahead what is going to fit in best once she is in full time school, how is that going to impact your weekly routines?

DameGladys Sun 10-Oct-10 13:16:39

Yes, exactly.

You are still participating in a game with him. As someone said earlier - you need to leave the ring.

Don't be hard on yourself that you have no clue (yet) how to stop the cycle you're trapped in. Arseholes like him spend years getting you to that point.

Womens Aid (and people here) can help you learn what to do instead smile

dizietsma Sun 10-Oct-10 13:21:04

"But he wont do a set time/day so i cant just not do anything on the off chance he might call."

It's not about what he'll do. Set a time, say DD will be available at that time and don't answer the phone to him unless it's that time. Let him call and call. There's a simple solution to that, uplug the phone, turn off the mobile. I think you'd need to do this for perhaps a week, then he'd get the message. He doesn't have a right to abuse you through contact with your DD, which is what he is doing. If you make provision for him to call, and he doesn't use that provision then that's his problem. Also, if you have a set time, you can just have DD answer the phone. You needn't answer it at all. At 4 she can tell if it's someone else calling. He'll try and get you to talk, but just tell DD to say goodbye and hang up.

"I have of course tried explaining this to him. But you can probably guess it makes no difference, he just says you are stopping me, i shall call when i like."

If he shall call when he likes, you shall pick up the phone when you like!

"DD sometimes shouts at him saying things like ' im eating my tea now daddy, call me when i have finished'"

This is worrisome, because through bullying you about when he gets to talk to DD, he is also bullying her. Thankfully it seems your DD is capable of telling him to bugger off when she's busy, but if you role model placating to him often enough that's what she'll start doing too, and little girls who placate abusive daddy often go on to placate abusive partners sad

I really do think contact through a contact centre would be best for all concerned though. I don't like to think of your DD alone with this abuser. At a contact centre he'd be supervised with her and you wouldn't ever have to interact with him again. Please look into it at least, Red.

Snorbs Sun 10-Oct-10 13:26:38

CarGirl, I disagree about limiting phone contact to only two days a week. Napoleona's DD is young. "Little and often" tends to work better for contact at that age.

NormaStanleyFletcher Sun 10-Oct-10 13:29:25

Red - there is some really good advice here, and I don't really have anything to add to it.

I am so glad you will be contacting WA, please stick to that. smile

And remember, you have bent over backwards to preserve the relationship between exH and DD, HE is the one who has made things difficult.

I just wish I was closer so I could pop round with RL cake and hugs

CarGirl Sun 10-Oct-10 13:29:33

But how often is he having contact I thought it was once during the week and every other weekend so that is still contact every few days at most?

redderthanred Sun 10-Oct-10 13:51:24

its never been during the week. Its just every other weekend.

I have offered him time to have DD on say a wednesday as i know he ususally finishes work at about 1:30pm. But he refuses. He lives an hour away.

But i have made her avaliable.

Of course, this is changeable due to his job. At the begining of the year he didnt see her for about 2 months. But he has had her for a full week during the summer.

Then its awful DD cries and tells me she wants to come home. He tells her not to be so silly though has told me eventually she cries and says she wants to come home.

But he has said he wants her for a week and thats what he wants.

I feel very very trapped by it. I understand fathers rights. I understand he is her dad. She does love him and likes spending time with him.
But i also know he doesnt listen to her, treats her like shes stupid and doesnt care when shes upset and wants to come home.

DD is a ballsey girl. I know she stands up to him. She came home last weekend telling me about something he had tried to get her to do that she didnt want to. She told me she refused and he got cross and then she cried when he wasnt looking.

I feel sad about that.

But its all fathers rights. Contact is best.

CarGirl Sun 10-Oct-10 13:56:02

It's not actually about fathers' rights, it's your dds rights to have contact with her father.

It would look good on him in court if he refuses to have her one evening a week when he only lives an hour away and finishes early once per week!

redderthanred Sun 10-Oct-10 13:56:51

She does love him though. she does like spending time with him.

Though he has had her for 3 weekends in row now and she really didnt want to go this week. She kept saying ' please mummy, can i just stay withyou' please mummy, can we just be together'

its too much for her to be away for me so many weekends in a row. But i agreed as he now isnt seeing her for a few weekends. I think in the future i will just say no.

redderthanred Sun 10-Oct-10 13:58:42

you know ive said he could take her to the park, or out for tea, or even to his parents who only live 10 mins from me.

But he wont.

yet he shouts at me if im not there to pick up the phone.

CarGirl Sun 10-Oct-10 13:58:51

Every other weekend and phone calls Tues, Thurs & Sats - something like that? You decide what you think is reasonable and then tell him what you will accept.

dizietsma Sun 10-Oct-10 13:59:37

No I disagree. Fathers do have rights, but abusive fathers forfeit those rights. He has shown himself to be unworthy of the privilege of being a father by physically assaulting his daughter's mother and being abusive to her. The way you describe his interactions with her really worries me. I think he is emotionally abusive to your DD and he is training her to be a victim of his and her later partner's abuse.

SO many times on MN you hear women in abusive relationships who accept the abuse of their partners because they were groomed to be abuse victims by their parents. It is not acceptable, and it is your duty as her mother to protect her from abuse.

Please look into contact at a contact centre. I really don't think it is right for him to be seeing her unsupervised if he behaves so abusively to her and your behaviour tacitly condones his abuse to her.

dittany Sun 10-Oct-10 14:05:19

She's four years old and you're expecting her to stand up to a 20 stone violent man who you can't stand up to yet.

Once again, think about your priorities. This thing with the CSA is a red herring, especially as you know it will anger him - it's just a way of keeping your engagement with him going. Your number one priority is to keep your daughter and yourself protected from him and his harassment. Money is less important than safety.

"Then its awful DD cries and tells me she wants to come home. He tells her not to be so silly though has told me eventually she cries and says she wants to come home."

What do you think is going on when that is happening?

"But its all fathers rights. Contact is best."

Says who? Just because your mother exposed you to an abusive bully and didn't stand in his way when he was harming you, doesn't mean you have to do the same to your daughter.

CarGirl Sun 10-Oct-10 14:13:17

He really doesn't seem to have any redeeming features that you've shared. You are worried about him not returning her. She cries because she wants to come home. She sometimes doesn't want to talk him on the phone

I think your dd is trying to tell you how she feels about that contact, what do you think that is?

redderthanred Sun 10-Oct-10 14:15:20

but the thing is - no court in the world would rule that based on his behaviour towards me.

proving he is bullying to her is impossibe, it is after all a 4 year olds voice aganist his. 4 years olds are not relaible at the best of times.

I know he tries some of the same things on her. Like when she is on the phone to him she likes it on speaker phone then i just put it on the table.

If she doesnt want to talk he will say things like
' well fine then DD, if you wont talk to me i will just go. you have upset me'

she just says ' oh well, bye then.

it doesnt work on her.
She is the most confident little girl. She is so self assured. If she thinks something she wont be told otherwise. If someone says something she doesnt agree with she will say no you are wrong, or no, im not going to do that.
and then she tells me.

Like the other week she came home and said
' daddy said i cant do this and i told him i can and i will' (it was about doing tricks on her scooter) ' he was wrong wasnt he mummy'
and i tell her, yes, he was wrong, and if she wants to do tricks on her scooter then she can.

I then have to tell him, that she is allowed to do tricks on her scooter. because she is not a baby and nor is she 2. Shes almost 5 and if she wants to go wizzing along in the garden with one leg in the air then she should be allowed to. and if she falls then she learns.

God help her teachers, and god help me when shes older.

Im confident, but its sometihng thats come later in life, so there is still that underlying not confident ness. or i am confident, but my self beliefe, self esteme is low. and my people pleaser ness is high.

Shes confident, and full of self esteme and self beliefe.

redderthanred Sun 10-Oct-10 14:17:51

but DD also says she misses him and then gets excited about seeing him.

I just think that 2 sleeps is enough for her. 3 at the most.

and its the law that says fathers rights.
my solicitor said i had no right to stop him.

dizietsma Sun 10-Oct-10 14:22:44

At the moment Red, yes your daughter does sound fairly able to stand up for herself. But being exposed to a bully will teach her otherwise if you don't stop it. 4 is certainly young enough to be taught to be cowed by bullies, particularly if her mother who is meant to protect her, condones that bullying by facilitating the abusive contact.

"it doesnt work on her."


As dittany says, it is very unfair to expect a 4 yo to stand up to a man you are afraid of. And you don't see how often she doesn't. Yes, perhaps she stand up to him on some things, but then she tells you she doesn't want to see him and you make her. What are you communicating to her? That her feelings are subservient to her father.

dittany Sun 10-Oct-10 14:23:15

Your solicitor sounds shit. When you go to WA they will be able to refer you to a new one and advise you on things like access. The fact that he has been so patchy in seeing her is a massive black mark against him.

Although it's not just the solicitor. You've been saying all along that you want to facilitate this relationship.

I really think you need to stop relying on your 4 year olds "confidence' to stand up to this man.

dizietsma Sun 10-Oct-10 14:25:08

"and its the law that says fathers rights."

Providing that father is not abusive. He is abusive, so his rights are forfeit.

"my solicitor said i had no right to stop him."

Then either you did not tell your solicitor the full extent of his abuse, or your solicitor is wrong.

redderthanred Sun 10-Oct-10 14:27:05

its really just that my solicitor said i had to.
that if i blocked it it would look bad on me.

that Dd's wishes would not be taken into consideration as she is so young.

I posted on the lone parents board a few days ago about the spat we were having about xmas.
few posters came back saying i was out of order and it was his DD as well and that his contact offer of the whole 2 weeks, bar 2 days was fine. and that i should facilliate that and thats how it is.

The fact that i would have barley seen her, and she would have barley seen me was just not an issue.

redderthanred Sun 10-Oct-10 14:28:52

my solicitor didnt care.
I did complain about him as she made several side remarks to me.
I asked to swap with another one.

he called me back and told me i was being over emotional and that he could handle the case and deal with in in half the time and far more comptently than the other women solicitors.

dizietsma Sun 10-Oct-10 14:35:08

But you have not been honest with everyone about his abuse, have you? Any solicitor worth their salt would be able to restrict contact with a partner who has an abusive history to contact centres.

You have your parents as witness to his harassing you, you regularly receive abusive phone calls and texts which you can record and keep to log with the police, you have presumably been injured by him which may be documented in your medical history. That ought to be more than enough to restrict his contact with you and your DD.

This is why you need to call WA. They will advise you of all of this and put you in contact with a solicitor who will actually stand up for you and help you. Honestly your solicitor sounds crap.

I know you're clinging to what your old solicitor told you because you are scared of standing up to him, and that's understandable, but you have a duty to protect yourself and your DD from his abuse. He does not have a right to abuse either of you. If he cannot have contact with you without abusing, then he cannot have contact. That is also the law.

NormaStanleyFletcher Sun 10-Oct-10 14:36:34

WA will recommend a much better solicitor smile

CarGirl Sun 10-Oct-10 14:37:07

If your dd can only handle 2 nights then why don't you split the 2 weeks into 3 short visits with him?

You do have more power than you think.

Please phone up WA and make good use of these 3 weeks.

redderthanred Sun 10-Oct-10 14:37:36

i did. i told the solicitor that.
he said it was a non issue now as we were getting divorced.

He did also ask what i might have done to provoke that reaction.

im am not joking. I left the solicitors office in floods of tears feeling more worthless than i did before i went in.

dizietsma Sun 10-Oct-10 14:38:33

"he called me back and told me i was being over emotional and that he could handle the case and deal with in in half the time and far more comptently than the other women solicitors."

Oh, sexist and manipulative. No wonder you're afraid to get a new solicitor, this one sounds rather like an abuser himself.

CarGirl Sun 10-Oct-10 14:39:35

Definately doesn't sound like the right solicitor for your situation.

dittany Sun 10-Oct-10 14:39:57

Solicitors dealing with family law should know how to ask the right questions to get real answers. It was obvious from Red's first post that there was more to this story than what she was telling us. A solicitor should be able to spot that. Unless they are crap of course.

dizietsma Sun 10-Oct-10 14:40:40

Post what your solicitor said on the legal matters board. There are lawyers who post on there and they will tell you he is wrong and unprofessional.

My father and stepmother are lawyers, I can assure you that your solicitor is behaving appallingly.

dittany Sun 10-Oct-10 14:43:34

Red, I've been to a solicitor on another kind of issue although one that was very sensitive to me, and the first one I saw was a complete wanker - talked over me, didn't listen, was really awful and I left feeling awful. Thing is, you're the client. If one solicitor is crap you have the right to go to another one, which I did. Seriously WA are likely to know of some very good, helpful ones. It is amazing how good it feels to have someone competent working on your side.

"He did also ask what i might have done to provoke that reaction."

He's an ignorant prick. That's all.

dittany Sun 10-Oct-10 14:49:44

Post what your solicitor said on the legal board:

and link to this thread, so it's clear the level of violence, abuse and harassment he's been inflicting on you.

redderthanred Sun 10-Oct-10 14:53:42

thats the thing - i did ask to swap to another one in the same practice ( as i had been recommended them)

Then he called me and told me he as more competent than any one else there and could do it in half the time.

I shall contact WA and get them to recommend one.

Went i went to him following the foot in the door incident he said ' well, what do you expect me to do about it'

i told him i wanted it stopped. That is was wrong.

the solicitor sat back in his chair and said, well, tell me what you want to say and ill draft a letter.

i said that i wanted to legally know what i could and couldnt say/do. if i was right to want to stop it.

the solicitor said i could say and do what i wanted, then if he ( ex) took me to court it could be decided then, but i had to bear in mind whatever i did might look bad on me.

and then i came home and cried and never went back. So the divorce never really got started.

dizietsma Sun 10-Oct-10 14:58:01

"the solicitor said i could say and do what i wanted, then if he ( ex) took me to court it could be decided then, but i had to bear in mind whatever i did might look bad on me."

Christ! I'm angry on your behalf, what a prick! The whole point of solicitors is to advise you of your legal rights and obligations, and he refused to do that. Definitely get rid.

CarGirl Sun 10-Oct-10 14:59:52

Solicitor sounds like a complete arse!

Def get one recommended by WA

Ironwilledmama Sun 10-Oct-10 15:17:05

The only piece of useful info my solicitor gave me was what I mentioned earlier, while there is no open communication contact can't be flexible and must be set in stone.

She wanted to send a letter to him telling him he must have open communication with me as thats whats better for dd, when I explained that he shouts and screams at me without fail everytime I speak to him on the phone, she told me I need to be strong and stand up to him.hmm I was speechless actually, I remember telling my family maybe I didn't explain myself to her properly, if it was as simple as, oh just stand up for yourself, nobody would be bullied or abused angry. I remember thinking it seems to be the childs right's(as it should be) then the fathers right's, then the mother who is taking daily care of the child, comes last and should be expected to be dumped on for the sake of the child's and father's relationship. I realised I have to elevate myself to a place of importance as nobody else was going to and this was the best example for dd.

If I could go back I would strip everything to basics. Priorities for you are, Women's Aid for support and a referral to an appropriate solicitor, minimum basic contact with him about dd's contact whilst you are getting advice from people who will help you, anything else, phonecalls to dd etc, don't even worry about, you are being horribly abused and living in fear, so he doesn't get to speak to his child on the phone, that should be the least of his worries!

redderthanred Sun 10-Oct-10 16:52:54

so - just got back from picking DD and he was a nice a pie.
All happy and smiling. Told DD he loved her, would see her in a few weeks and that he missed her and if she wanted to call him anytime she could.

He was polite to me, no nastyness at all.
not threatning, no agression.

End up coming away feeling im being over dramatic and making it all up.

Of course i know im not. and that is why they do it. He probably realises hes pushed me as far as he can right now, will back off, i would usually be lulled into a false sense of security and then he starts again.

not going to happen this time.

though now i will just feel really guilty on top of it.

Ironwilledmama - yeah, i get you on the list of rights thing. I very much felt like that.
Your solicitor also sounds rubbish

NormaStanleyFletcher Sun 10-Oct-10 17:14:51

You are not making it all up.

It is part of the abuse behaviour isn't it? To be nice sometimes, it is done to make you doubt yourself, to make you think that if you just "bahave" how he wants then it will all be OK.

Take not the slightest bit of notice.

Read the posts you have made before this

| It's all up there

And contact WA soon as you can.

ItsGhoulAgain Sun 10-Oct-10 17:15:19

Mine was, too. And the mediator, and also my union advisor. If I'd had kids, I'd probably still be fighting to get them back!!! Had I known, then, what I know now, I'd have been aware that such professions attract Narcissists and other power-crazed lunatics. Mind you, if I'd known about it, I wouldn't have been so helpless in the first place

Take these other women's advice, Red. Use the rescue services; it's what they're for.

Print out the Bill Of Assertive Rights and pin it on your kitchen wall!
Keep going xx

ScaryFucker Sun 10-Oct-10 17:31:31

though now i will just feel really guilty on top of it.

You really need to stop doing that.

PosieParker Sun 10-Oct-10 17:35:11

Hey Red, any chance you could get to London on the 23rd? TRains are cheap if you book now, creche is available and the women seem lovely.

take a look

I have just booked my ticket, including the feminist parenting workshops!! I am sure there would be a plethora of women who could advise you in person, some great panelists and other workshops!!

CarGirl Sun 10-Oct-10 17:45:00

Did you take your Mum with you? Was that why he was as nice as pie so it appears that you are making it up about him?

Do not be fooled it's jut an act!

Snorbs Sun 10-Oct-10 17:55:50

The niceness is just as much part of his efforts to control you as the nastiness is. Nice and nasty, up and down, round and round. It's all part of the Cycle of abuse.

redderthanred Sun 10-Oct-10 17:58:14

no i left mum at home. So it was just me.

Logically i know its just an act.
My behaviour pattern however tells me i am making it sound worse than it is, and that ' see, hes nice - its you.

mum called to make sure i got back ok. I started to go talk and little bit and she said' red. i dont want to know. please do not tell me. i would rather not know'

she knows about all his affairs, and she has seen him be agressive.

but she doesnt want to know anymore.

and thats exacally why i dont tell people.

they dont want to know the truth.

ScaryFucker Sun 10-Oct-10 18:03:19

you know the truth

that is all that matters

CarGirl Sun 10-Oct-10 18:05:08

Why doesn't she want to know, because she can't deal with it emotionally or because she's frustrated with you, or do you not know?

My parents have never done emotionally support and it's screwed me up tbh

NormaStanleyFletcher Sun 10-Oct-10 18:08:42

Tell WA.


<<feels like broken record>>


redderthanred Sun 10-Oct-10 18:09:44

i have no idea.

Shes not frustrated with me, so i guess she just cant deal with it.

probably easier for her if she didnt know.

I wasnt talking to her for most of my marriage. My mother has toxic tendancies and went wall off track following a stressful period in her life. I got to the point where i couldnt deal with her and just cut her out.

During this time, i met, married and moved in with ex dh.

we did not start talking again until after we split up the first time.

I expect if she knew what went on, as a mother she would feel gulity. So she would rather not know.

but thats just my take on it.

who knows

redderthanred Sun 10-Oct-10 18:10:21

norma - im going to. i shall email them on tuesday.

dittany Sun 10-Oct-10 18:11:15

Will you post on the legal board in the meantime, Red?

NormaStanleyFletcher Sun 10-Oct-10 18:13:32

Good Woman

I wish I lived closer to you. You and I have talked on and off for a while, and would love to meet you sometime.

<<dave hairy knuckled biker>> wink

redderthanred Sun 10-Oct-10 18:21:11

ah. thank you.

one day. - maybe after xmas some time, in a meet half way type thing. im not adverse to travelling. esp if there is cake at the end.

ValiumSingleton Sun 10-Oct-10 18:46:28

Red, that's awful - your Mum's reaction I mean.. Words fail me for once. I had nothing but sympathy, support and kindness from my M&D and it was still very, very hard to leave, and still very hard to .... articulate to people why I had left. Definitely ring WA. And then tomorrow, have a big gooey slice of cake! You have earned it I think.

redderthanred Sun 10-Oct-10 19:39:42

yeah i know it is.
doesnt surprise.
I wouldnt even bother mentioning it to my dad. I dont see him for more and an hour every month. he cant even have more than a 2 min phone conversation with me.

One sister i dont speak to and ahavent for years.

The other one is nice, but hasnt a clue.

My brother, hes 9 years youger, still early 20's. So pretty much still just grunting.

plus im the oldest.

I literally did it all on my own. I had no friends. I had either pushed them away, or kept them at a distance because i was embarassed about what was happening. Or i lost touch due to the constant moves. Or he said they were idiots and would make it difficult for me to see them.

I have had noone to talk to about any of this. Ever.

and even now, though im back in the same town as my family, and have started making new friends. Im very much alone, and still have noone to talk to about it.

another reason for the coping thing i think. If i dont cope, i havent really got any other option have i.

jsgirl Sun 10-Oct-10 19:48:10

Can only reiterate what the others have said. Contact Women's Aid and for goodness sake get a new solicitor because the one you've got now is utter crap. I work in a firm of solicitors, although family's not my area, and when I think of how you've been advised as to how you should be advised and helped, it makes me rather cross on your behalf. Your solicitor is a pillock and you need to sack him. I wouldn't stay with that firm to be honest but I'm sure WA can advise you best on that.

It pisses me off to think that this solicitor is speaking to his clients - and you won't be the only one - like this.

I think you're an incredibly strong person and a wonderful, caring mother. I know you've been told otherwise by your ex, but I'd like to think that my opinion and those of the other posters on this thread count for more than those of that tosspot of an ex.

redderthanred Mon 11-Oct-10 07:40:20

have got to go to work today.
Planning on calling CSA and emailing womens aid tomorrow. I shall ask them to recommend a good solicitor too for when legal aid becomes avalaible again. ( or if they know of anyone who is still offering legal aid at the momment.

I still didnt sleep last night. I feel exhuasted and totally drained so im sure ill be fab at work today!

I just keep thinking about everything that happened, all the thigns he did. But then i keep questioning myself. Like maybe im just seeing it wrong, or maybe i did push him to it, or maybe im just awful to be with.

I know i need to get this sorted, and a distance myself from him. But then, how im feeling right now, i feel so hurt and upset, that it was almost easier when i was just annoyed at his bullying.

redderthanred Mon 11-Oct-10 07:44:10

im not with that solicitor any more btw. I just didnt go back.

He also said other things like ' your marriage was inconswquencial' and that it had only been for 8 years so it was of no worth.
that if i behaved as i did in his office ( crying) that he could sympathise with my ex husband. ( yes, he really said that)

ValiumSingleton Mon 11-Oct-10 08:46:25

Wow! shock that's the kind of solicitor who gives them all a bad name.

You must be really strong redder, because I know I couldn't have left my x if I hadn't had my parents begging me to leave my ex. You say "I had no friends. I had either pushed them away, or kept them at a distance because i was embarassed about what was happening. Or i lost touch due to the constant moves. Or he said they were idiots and would make it difficult for me to see them." I know this. The friends I did have, I spent so much time covering for my x or presenting a facade of a happy life that one day I realised I just felt so disconnected from my friends there was no point carrying on pretending. From now on, whatever friendships you make will be honest and real. (I did have some friends, it was MY foolish decision not to confide in them)

Janos Mon 11-Oct-10 09:19:31

redder, I have read back my earlier posts and they come across quite hectoring and dare I say it a bit bullying even. I want to apologise for that.

Your strength is really astonishing.I found things incredibly hard when I split from my abusive ex and that was with 100% support from family.

It's great news that you are going to contact womens aid. Here's hoping they can provide you with the help and support you need to get away from this nasty piece of work.

Good luck to you. Sincerely.

Janos Mon 11-Oct-10 09:29:12

And, I also wanted to say I understand what it is like to be scared of your ex. I was terrified of mine and spent a lot of emotional/mental energy placating him and being scared to upset him.

Then he did something really awful which made me realise I had to do something..if that makes sense.

That was the beginning of getting my life back and him losing his 'hold' on me. Its still a work in progress but getting better.

I hope you can look back and say the same .

redderthanred Mon 11-Oct-10 12:39:36

janos- no they didnt. i didnt read them as being that at all. dont worry

Am feeling a little bit better now.
I supose i just kind of assumed it would all stop when we seperated, or he would get bored of doing it. but he hasnt.

Its not going to go away on its own and i need to do something about it. Because the cycle doesnt stop. One month ( of for a while) he will be nice as pie, and chatty and friendly, heck he even lend me his car while mine was off the road. Then he will turn nasty for no reason as far as i can see, and then use everything nice he has done ( or just the fact we were getting on ) aganist me.

anyway - csa will be called tomorrow. I feel a little bit sick thinking about it, but it just has to be done.

ScaryFucker Mon 11-Oct-10 14:44:29

red, it really does have to be done, yes

or you will still be in the same shitty position 12 months from now

redderthanred Mon 11-Oct-10 15:23:28

i know.

i just dont want to. Also, ive been told it takes a few weeks ( about 3) to get the money.
Im so heavily budgeted that i cant really afford ( scrap that, i am in a dire state) without the maintence coming in on the day i was expecting it.

ScaryFucker Mon 11-Oct-10 15:35:50

Could you explain the situation to them ? They may be able to recommend a kind of short-term loan from Social Welfare funds to tide you over

this must be a common scenario, tbh

men who have to be chased by the CSA regularly keep their partners short of, take advice and don't do nothing bcause you are scared of the consequences

dizietsma Mon 11-Oct-10 23:28:58

MIL's ex sounds like yours actually, Red.

He can be terribly nice to MIL for long periods of time, but then tensions will build and he'll screw her out of money and call her a whore in front of BIL, slink off until she's forgotten how quite how bad it was then he saunters back in as Mr. Generous Nice Guy and the cycle begins again. He enjoys wielding power over her, domestic violence is all about the control. These men are so predictable. It starts out nice as pie, tensions build, big nasty flare up, blaming the victim/ignoring the abuse, then nice as pie again.

ivykaty44 Mon 11-Oct-10 23:41:55

I can ignore my ex when he says goodmorning - as I can get to whatever level it is for a peaceful life - goodmoornign turns to can I use your loo, or could I borrow this

Don't talk, don't reply, don't text ignore ignore ignore don't answer unknown numbers - don't answer witheld numbers - let it go to answer phone and then see who it was

Remeber "don't feed the monkeys"

if you do feed the monkes - they will come back for more and yes it will stop if you stop feeding them

JeezyPeeps Tue 12-Oct-10 07:05:15

I haven't read the whole thread, but is there a law centre near you?

ValiumSingleton Tue 12-Oct-10 07:48:58

ivykaty44, I agree, I like that phrase. From now on that's how I'll think of it. The monkey is looking somewhere else for food now.

NormaStanleyFletcher Tue 12-Oct-10 07:51:30

Sending you strength for today Red. smile

Good luck with getting everything sorted.

I know you can do this.

<<waves red pompoms>>

redderthanred Tue 12-Oct-10 10:21:51

thanks norma

Just called csa and spoke to the most dim woman in the world.

she seemed to have no clue about anything and in the end said she would get the lady who i spoke to last week to call me back. Hopefully within the next 48 hours. I said i was only off work today and couldnt take calls at work and she said she would make a note of that.

Anyway - all an anti climax though i did end up in tears on the phone explaining why i wanted them to take payments for me.

So - am just waiting for a call back.

Email to womens aid ive started but till send later. Maybe wed.

Bank i shall probably call next tue.

redderthanred Tue 12-Oct-10 14:31:14

right - just called again and spoke to a really nice helpful lady.
We decided it would make more sense to wait until i recieve this months payment at the end of oct. then for me to phone them on the 1st nov and they will start from then.
that makes most sense as - it gives them a full month to set the whole thing up
-they be be collecting a full months money - not a partial amount, which if i started today i would.
If it was the partial amount, i risk losing the first 2 weeks money as they cant inforce it and i know he would be so pissed off he wouldnt give it to me.

So, i call back then. keep my mouth shut until then and actually he is away until then so i dont have to see him either.


NormaStanleyFletcher Tue 12-Oct-10 16:07:05

Well done!
Now - WA <<nag>>

redderthanred Tue 12-Oct-10 16:56:58

im going to email them.
if i ring them ill be no use as i will just cry.

The kind poster who offered me a book said i can also email them.

so thats what im going to do.

am going to ask for practical advice for disengaging with him, and legal advice, and hopefully they can recommend a good solicitor.

CarGirl Tue 12-Oct-10 18:34:22

well done, another step towards complete freedom, you're one strong lady.

NormaStanleyFletcher Tue 12-Oct-10 18:35:00

Don't worry - I wasn't nagging to phone them - I completely understand why you want to do that via email. Just nagging to make sure you do send the email [smile

Make sure you ask for solicitor advice in the email too.

redderthanred Tue 12-Oct-10 19:01:50

dont worry will do.

anyway - its nice to be supported ( or nagged! lol)

if i didnt have you lot saying do it - i wouldnt have even called the csa.

so thanks

NormaStanleyFletcher Wed 13-Oct-10 23:09:03

So.... Womens Aid?

Email sent?

malinkey Thu 14-Oct-10 11:27:07

I haven't read all of your post but just wanted to say you'll be much better off phoning Women's Aid. I emailed them and they aren't able to answer emails individually - they just send you a general email giving you general advice.

If you want specific advice you need to ring them.

NormaStanleyFletcher Fri 15-Oct-10 19:34:07

Hey Red - I've not been around for a couple of days (work - gah)

How's everything going?

mrspnut Fri 15-Oct-10 20:35:42

Malinkey - I advised Red to email her local branch of WA not the national organisation.

I work for a local branch and we will always respond to an email with specific advice to try to build a relationship with the woman so that she then feels able to speak to one of us on the phone.

I can't speak for all local branches but I do know that the ones near us all work on the same policy - any engagement is better than none.

maliciousinkey Fri 15-Oct-10 20:47:34

Mrspnut, how do you email your local branch? Thanks.

mrspnut Fri 15-Oct-10 20:59:56

On the WAFE website there is a drop down box that says get help locally - it's the directory that is available to the public.

On there most of the entries will have an email address.

If you need help seeking a particular area, then I can search the refuges online site to see if it's another organisation that covers that area but it isn't available to the general public.

mrspnut Fri 15-Oct-10 21:02:19

If they don't have their email address listed then you can always call and ask them for it - it wouldn't be unusual for us to get a call like that.

maliciousinkey Fri 15-Oct-10 21:22:05

Thanks for the info mrspnut - very helpful.

WakingUptoIt Sat 07-Jul-12 19:24:33

I really feel for you. My ex sounds a lot like yours and I am also stuck in the same pattern (he is reasonable, then he blows up, then it starts again). I spent a fortune on solicitors sending out letters to my ex about his behaviour- to no avail. He just ignored all of them and continued with his behaviour thinking it was all ridiculous as was I. It seems unless you are physically in danger there is not much you can do except limit your own contact as much as possible and just avoid any unnecessary conversation. I advise not relying to heavily on solicitors, they make money drafting and sending out letters and unless you are in any real danger, there is not much they actually can do for you (from my experience).

I thought mediation might help (as my only remaining routes were courts to sell the family home (i.e. even MORE costs). I got my dad involved to talk to him. He used this as an opportunity to humiliate me in front of my family and made up all sorts of things to make him look like the victim and me like a useless person (cant look after my kid, lazy, rubbish with money) - as well as implying I was cheating on him (which I never did). My family supports me full and know me, and are equally incensed at his behaviour.

Hang in there, you are not alone!!!!! I hope you find a good solution and you get peace back in your life soon - The pain will end sometime and he cannot control you if you let him. I know thats easier said than done but you need to see him for what he really is- a complete narcissistic sociopath and just dont believe when he is nice, its always just a trick until they get cross again xxx Its sad but there are some people beyond help and he sounds like one of them.

Flisspaps Sat 07-Jul-12 19:30:27

Zombie thread

No point replying to the OP, this thread is 2 years old and hopefully things have moved on since then!

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