Oh give me a clever answer for this horror of man will you please?

[ohboreoffwhydontyou]

Yesterday ex asked me to try again. I have name changed as my story is well documented and I do not wish to be harangued for being the idiot I am.

I agreed.....to an extent. In that I would move house, he would continue to live and work here (where I live now) and we would see how it goes.

So today he was supposed to come and have dc in the morning so I could go to an appointment and also fix my washing machine. He rang me last night pissed up from pub (same old, same old), didn't turn up this morning, then sent me a text trying to manipulate me into thinking that the arrangement hadn't been in place at all, I was mistaken. I told him I wasn't and not to lie about it, he said I was "a bore" to "shut up about it" and ended with "I let you down today because I could tell you weren't serious yesterday (I was), you were obviously so ungenuine (I wasn't)" and started ranting about my "affair" (someone I saw for a few weeks after we finished).

Well done if you got through this but I am feeling all rubbish inside again and angry with myself for letting my guard down. I don't want to row with him when he arrives to pick up dc but I know he will try to engineer one. Just need some clever cool answers. I find it hard to keep a clear head when he starts.

[Taghain]

You don't need any clever cool answers, you need to be firm.
Tell him to wait OUTSIDE the house while your daughter collects her stuff, kiss her goodbye and don't speak or listen to him anymore.

[thesunshinesbrightly]

What do you want people to say?

I'm a firm believer in you make a decision and stick to it. He knows he can walk all over you. Nevermind.

[ohboreoffwhydontyou]

Well if I knew what I wanted people to say I wouldn't have asked.

Thanks a lot.

[ohboreoffwhydontyou]

Just looking for a bit of support really as feeling a bit rubbish.

Thanks Taghain. Not really an option though as trying to keep things as normal as possible with dc, they are managing really well with the way things are being done and we were too until this, hence me thinking that we could maybe try again.

Silly me eh? Suppose I should just look at this as a very strong reminder of why we split.

[BaggyAgy]

Poor you. If he has an alcohol problem, (or any addiction) this is just typical behaviour and will continue on and on and on and on. I learned in al-anon to behave, not responsibly and predictably like the co-dependent I was, but just a little bit like the alcoholic. Be less predictable. Maybe tell him you weren't serious, just testing his reaction. Don't let him see you are "wound up", because he will thrive on your distress. Pretend you are "in on the joke". Let him down. He needs you to play your role in the game he is playing. He will "mess with your head" for as long as you let him. Pretend to be irresponsible too. He wants you to act like his Mother whilst he acts like a toddler/teenage. Don't. Laugh, Joke and pretend you knew this would be the outcome, and that you are okay with that. He will be wrong-footed instead of you being wrong-footed. Then avoid him, he is bad news.
Let us know how you get on. Good Luck

[ohboreoffwhydontyou]

yes you right Starlight. Oh I can be boring, yes sirree, no engagement, no expression etc can do that, probably best thing.

[zazen]

If he kicks off, say something like "that's interesting you should say that" and then don't say anything more.

Have a clip board, and write things down! Look at him up and down without saying anything!

If he's been drinking don't let him drive your DCs.

[ohboreoffwhydontyou]

Actually just looked at Al-Anon meetings yesterday as it happens. He is an alcoholic imvho, though pretty high functioning, keeps a good job etc.

One tommorrow afternoon but dependent on him to have dc for it. Thats really good advice actually BaggyAggy. I actually DID know that would be the outcome but hoped otherwise. Time to stop hoping isn't it?

[ohboreoffwhydontyou]

It's ok, he doesn't drive and I would never let him drive my car. Another example of what a miserable bitch I am that was too. He doesn't drink round dc, so uses that as yet another example why he is NOT an alcoholic and it is all in my head.

[DinahRod]

No reaction is the best reaction.

I also suggest since he tried "to manipulate me into thinking that the arrangement hadn't been in place at all" that you do the same regarding trying again.

Feign complete amnesia that the conversation ever took place - and amused horror that you would even consider such a thing.

[msboogie]

so what's the problem? you had a bad dream in which you agreed to try again only luckily you woke up before anything actually happened.

Maybe he meant to make an effort only he can't come good on it because he is clearly an alcoholic so the drink is his main priority.

The thing that you (and he ) need to understand is that you will carry on repeating the same depressing endless pattern as long as he is who he is.

So you can't agree get back with him until something happens to demonstrate to you without a shadow of a doubt that he has ALREADY changed, has addressed his drink problem, has learnt repsect for you, has become a decent human being. NOT that he is going to maybe think about doing these things when he is sober but that he HAS ALREADY done it (i.e. on the 12th of never).

But until then he won't change, tha pattern won't change only YOU can change.

[msboogie]

oh and to answer your wuestion - your come- back to this man is "we're done I hope you and the booze will be very happy together".

[booyhoo]

anything you say to him will satisfy his need for your attention. don't satisfy him. don't speak to him other than to tell him to wait outside. don't respond to anything he asks. just reamin civil for your dc and make sure they know you aren't upset with them.

[Ballpoint]

Snappy, clever put downs and one liner answer show some degree of thought and attention have gone into what you want to say to him, they are a way of engaging him an aggressive conversation, sparring, which will no doubt lead to an argument therefore using your time, energy and emotions. If you truly, 100%, finished with this man and don't want him to be a part of your personal life then you need to stop giving him so much of yourself.

Keep things business like and to the point, he is not your friend right now, he is your ex.

[QuickLookBusy]

Agree with Booyhoo, dont give him the satisfaction of a reaction, to anything that happened at the weekend.

But, I dont think you can ignore him infront of the children. They would be .

I would pretend I was in a hurry and had to be somewhere. Say something like
"Hello shitface ex, right DC have a lovely time with Daddy, I will see you tomorr, must hurry, have to be out in 10 mins. Love you Bye!" Close door and congratulate yourself!!

[Snorbs]

Absolutely - keep it short, keep it business-like, keep it purely about child contact matters and don't rise to the bait.

He'll do anything he can to get the divert the conversation off of his failings and onto yours. There's no point in trying to get the truth out of him or trying to get him to admit that he messed up. He won't, he simply won't. Give up. Let it go. And do get to Al-Anon if you can - you don't have to tell him where you're going.

One thing I always find useful when getting embroiled in an unpleasant conversation with my alcoholic ex is "Is there anything I can be doing that would be more fun than this?" As the answer is always a solid "yes", I simply end the conversation and go and doing the fun thing instead.

Once he realises that you're no longer willing to pay attention to his game-playing and drama, eventually he'll give up and find someone else's life to blight.

[Anniegetyourgun]

The cleverest answer to this kind of game-playing is also the shortest: the word "no".

[ohboreoffwhydontyou]

Thank you all very much.

Haven't seen him yet, coming this evening. Have MSN'd about arrangements and just not mentioned anything about yesterday or this morning. This is the way forward I feel, let my guard down yesterday. Won't again. I do realise he will never change deep down, just feel so sorry for him sometimes and I suppose there is just that last little bit of me that thinks "well what if THIS time he really means it". I always worry too, that I am too uptight in that everyone around me seems to drink an awful lot but I don't at all (compltely put off it tbh!) so am I being unrealistic about his drinking? Does everyone drink quite a lot except me? Do I have unrealistic ideas about how much people should drink? Am I in fact just very controlling? Always those questions when dealing with alcohol. I loathe the stuff.

[Anniegetyourgun]

Not everybody drinks a lot, no, and I don't think you should let yourself get bogged down in this sort of debate. Basically if he's too hung over to visit his own children, he has got a problem. Perhaps irrelevant in the long run whether the problem is alcoholism or a total lack of giveashit; the point is he's let you and your children down again, and then he tries to blame it on you? No, you're not uptight. Or if you are, you have reason to be. And his behaviour is still unacceptable whether you're uptight or not.

[MIFLAW]

He probably does really mean it.

Till a drink gets in the way.

Drunks are like that.

The only way this will ever change is if he stops drinking completely.

Sad but true.

[mittz]

No it is not you, you are not controlling. It is quite natural to feel like that after you have had an experience with someone with a drink problem.

Some people are OK with it. Some become an emotional roller coater when they drink, my Ex did. And it is a gamble, because they can't control which way it will flip their emotions.
I am OK around friends drinking and even being 'drunk' but get very jumpy if their is lairy behaviour.

We drew so many lines and he said I was never giving him a fair chance, but truth be told, I was always waiting for things to spin out of control, and within 2 weeks they usually did. It broke me. Looked at me tenderly and held my face in his hands saying he would give up drinking to show me I and the DC's were worth it, and because he had done so much harm. Later that weekend at a party he had a drink.

Can they change? I guess so but they have to do it before making promises.

And I am the one with the problem apparently and should let DC's see that he can drink responsibly. He thinks I impose my DS's fears on him by saying stuff. I don't. I wouldn't wish it on him, he's 12.

You can draw a line and it is tough, heartbreakingly so. If you can not finds the words OB, simply say nothing, or answer simply. One day it will be easier than tiptoeing around the house suffering the ricochets of a binge night , or whatever your own personal circumstances brought you.

[tillywee]

Disengage....thats the best way.

No hun...they never really mean it i'm afraid, he probably enjoys game playing far to much