Help ... second opinion needed on ex taking ds away!

[bodiddly]

Sorry this could be a bit long! My ex and I split up about 2 months ago now and are living in the same house for the time being. We had agreed that he would take a week off work (he is self employed) to have ds for one week in the summer holidays and that I would take off a couple of weeks. He promised ds (who is 5) that he would take him camping as he has never been. He is now saying that he wants to take him to Ibiza for 5 days. I fully appreicate that he is entitled to take him away for a holiday and would not look to stop him but I do have major concerns. He has NEVER had him for more than a few hours on his own. If he ever has him he gravitates towards family .. taking him round there so he isnt looking after him alone. I have only ever spent one night away from ds and he hasn't slept away from home without me. I admit I am a bit of a control freak but I don't have a problem with him having him per se but I do panic at the thought of him being so far away from home as a first time away. I cannot imagine my ex doing the day to day things I do .. like remember to put suntan lotion on him, stay out of sun at hottest time of day, put him to bed at a reasonable time (obviously way later than usual as he would be on holiday), keep an eye on him the whole time he is by a pool etc rather than being distracted by his phone/on facebook. I appreciate he has to learn at some point but surely building up by days out and a night or two away in the UK would be preferable. That way if anything happened they are hours away rather than a flight!

I know I probably sound unreasonable but he had ds for 4 hours on saturday morning and came back saying "i dont know how i am going to cope with him on my own he is a nightmare and everything has to be about him 24/7". This is totally unfair as ds is actually quite good but if you expect him to drive around in a van going from job to job with his dad he isnt going to be particularly happy! My ex has never learnt the whole art of "distraction" thing or seen the need to take reading/drawing stuff along for restaurants etc as he expects him to fit in around him more often than not. I can see him getting on a plane with no toys/dvds etc and expect him to behave. The truth is that he knows ds wants to go camping and has said he would like to go for 3 days but ex wants to go abroad! I appreciate he has to work out for himself how to deal with him but I dont want ds to have to be the butt of the problems that will come with it as he does. Ds does not know we have split as such but it is becoming more apparent as his dad is around less and less and subsequently is becoming more clingy with me!

I guess what I am asking is whether you think I am being neurotic and unreasonable ... rl friends all think it is madness for him to take him abroad so soon.

[CarGirl]

Sorry to hear your news

Why don't you suggest that he takes your ds camping one weekend and goes abroad with a friend at some other point so he gets to enjoy himself after spending that sort of money IYSWIM?

I would do the "it's going to be really hard work taking ds abroad it will be a waste of your money/holiday time, ds will be just has happy going camping?"

[msboogie]

NO!! Of course you are not being unreasonable. Good God.

I think you are perfectly within your rights to ask that he demonstrates that he can manage the child 24/7 at home first, given his evident shortcomings in the parenting department.

I would be very suspicious as to why he wants to take a small child camping to Ibiza - unless there is some great family camping thing going on there that I don't know about.

Not unreasonable - how about you suggest they go camping first over a weekend here first?

[bodiddly]

Hi CarGirl, how are you all? ... I have tried all of that but he has said he wants to prove a point now though I feel that he will be doing it at ds' expense. Ds loves his dad to bits but even this evening he said he wanted to spend tomorrow with me rather than go off with him - he is really noticing the fact that ex is out every night etc. Its very tricky! My ex has always been one to act without thinking and then turn around later and say he should've listened to me when he has calmed down or it has all gone tits up! Im also concerned that if he goes he wont earn for the week, he will spend a fortune and he wont have my maintenance come the first of the month! Ds would be happy with a couple of nights in a tent in the garden, a day trip to the seaside and a trip to legoland (we have merlin passes) - but unfortunately his dad isnt!!!

[Stuckey]

I am seperated from DC1's Dad, and there is no way I would be comfortable with him taking him abroad for 5 days. Contact is minimal at the moment, and like you, I would be concered that he wouldn't know what he's doing. I would worry that should he get upset (especially being out of routine, not seeing me/his brother/stepdad) he's a long way away, and I'm not sure he would handle it well. I'd also worry that it could do more harm than good to their relationship.

[CarGirl]

eeek!

Why don't you do the "How about camping this/next weekend and go abroad in x when it will be cheaper" just lie and take him out of school!

[bodiddly]

msboogie .. he isnt planning on camping in ibiza .. he has found a half board place for the two of them. Im not saying he isn't a good dad but he just doesnt know how to deal 24/7. I must admit I know many men who are the same and rl friends have said they wouldnt let their husbands take the kids abroad alone for the same reasons! I would welcome him to take him away for a few days first .. unfortunately he is due to have him the week after next. I even offered to swap weeks with him so he could take him to cornwall next week when his family are down there in a caravan. He could have had some support but stayed in a different resort. He says that for the same price he can go abroad and that he doesnt "do" holidays in England.

[bodiddly]

but how can you say no stuckey? If he is his dad?

[CarGirl]

"lose" the passport?

[bodiddly]

CarGirl he doesnt seem to want to spend time with him in the house and so the idea of having to take time off work to spend with him in the holidays for childcare means he feels he has to go away.

[bodiddly]

funnily enough someone else suggested losing the passport. I dont think that would go down too well!

[CarGirl]

Can you go away for a weekend or 48 hours before then so he has to look after him for that period of time? Preferably asap.

When is he due to take him abroad?

[bodiddly]

I am off with him next week and he is meant to have him the week after that. I will then have the following week - he is talking about going the Thurs, Fri, Sat, Sun, Mon at the end of his week and the beginning of mine ... now saying he will have to work the Mon, Tues, Wed ... so he expects ds to go out to work with him in his van. Needless to say I will prob end up taking him to work with me in preference to that!

[CarGirl]

Let him take him in the van and hope ds refuses to go away with him?

[bodiddly]

The thing is if I go away next weekend he will just go to family and leave him with his parents while he goes to the gym etc. I know he can deal with him on a day out somewhere as ds would be having fun ... its the rest of it I am concerned about and the fact that ds is obviously feeling a little insecure at the moment and I think he will miss me like crazy!

[Stuckey]

I would tell him my concerns and ask that he waits until contact is more regular and established before going abroad for contact was considered.

If he was still insistent I would with hold the passport, or 'lose' it, as others have suggested.

I know that if I had concerns, and I let him take im away, and god forbid, something happened, I could never forgive myself. You need to feel comfortable and confident that he is capable of independantley taking care of him.

[ivykaty44]

has this father ever ill treated his son? Has this father ever purposely hurt his son or left him on his own and by doing so put him in danger?

Have you ever let your dh get on with things without you around for long periods of time?

Is your ex dh unfit to look after a child?

the passport thing thats just unfair and silly and I am sure the Op wouldn't be so daft and selfish

[bodiddly]

lol CarGirl ... he wouldnt let him refuse .. he would tempt him with the seaside, going on a plane etc and if all else failed he would make him go if he had spent the money. He went to a kids club in the first week of the holidays and was unhappy there. I told ex he was unhappy but he said I was being over dramatic and there was nothing wrong with him. Ds went for 3 days bless him but on the fourth day when his dad took him in he screamed the place down! He was saying that we had paid for the place and was fine so he had to go! We ended up pulling him out. He is such a happy kid that I know when he says something like that he really must be unhappy.

[bodiddly]

no to all those questions ivykaty ... as I say he loves his son and wouldnt ever deliberately set out to do anything. He would however inadvertently cause upset by not thinking/considering him or knowing how to deal with him properly. I have no issue with him having him just with the idea that going from never having him alone for even 24 hours to 5 days in Ibiza in one giant step! He gets him up every day and takes him to school every day on his own as I leave early for work ... but even that he now gets up at the last minute and takes him to a cafe for breakfast ... because that is what HE wants ... even if ds wants toast and cereal.

[ivykaty44]

do you realise that if your ex took you through the court the judge would agree to a father taking his child on holdiay and yes abroad.

Take a deep breath and please realise that this is a big step but best to get into the swing of things - you are now not together and your ds will be spending time with your ex his father - this should be a good positive experiance.

5 days is not really very long - it isn't even a week and probalby 5 days will give ds and his dad some time to get to know each other - on their own and without anyone else, no family around etc to help out or be there to talk to.

This will be really good bonding time.

I really do not see why there would be a problem.

Is it that you will miss ds and have not been away from him before for many nights? If it is fine this is soemthign new for you, but you need to get used to being a person without your ds always around - not perhaps as you planned your life - but this is how it will be from now on if you are staying apart.

[bodiddly]

I do understand that ivykaty which is why I would never say he couldnt take him - of course I will miss him and I am sure that is at the back of my mind but he has vacillated between camping in cornwall, a week in turkey, days out and camping in the UK and now Ibiza. As much as I knew I would miss him in the UK it wasnt really until abroad was mentioned that my level of concern peaked! He wont even put sun cream on him to go to school in this country or bung a hat on him when reminded so I can see these things being an issue. I dont want ds to end up with sun stroke because his father doesnt believe in sun cream for himself so doesnt think of it for his ds. I do feel that as his primary caregiver for the past 5 years my opinion should count for something. I want him to have as full a relationship with his father as possible but I just dont think such a major jump is a great idea. I dont think I am unreasonable in saying do something in the UK this year and go abroad next when things are a little more settled!

[Stuckey]

I do think it's only fair that he can prove he is capable of taking care of his DC on his own for extended overnight stays before he takes a trip abroad.

[CarGirl]

I have to agree with Ivy, I completely understand how you feel and that you have genuine founded concerns but it could be the making of improving their relationship and your ex taking on a proper carer role for your ds.

I was being flippant with the lose the passport bit.

Have you sorted out how/when you will start living in seperate properties?

[Stuckey]

The first time my exP asked about taking DC abroad for a holiday he hadn't had him overnight. We agreed that he'd need to have a few overnight stays before for DS to get used to being away from home.

The first time he fell and cut his head, exDp took him to A&E, which wasn't neccersary, he decided against the holiday abroad after that.

DS, however, was only 13mo at the time, and perhaps it;s not such a worry when they are older, can communicate properly/talk on the phone and know their own needs IYSWIM. How does your DS feel about going away?

[bodiddly]

We are really only living in the same place for now for financial reasons. The house is largely mine and he will move out at some point. We both have debts which we need to pay off so he is giving me a small amount for living in the spare room. All the while he is here he is also able to take ds to school. It isn't ideal obviously as it is never easy living with someone and watching them move on but we are civil etc. He is out 7 nights a week so we don't see much of each other!

As I said initially I will not stop him from taking him but I do hope he will change his mind. I have told him my concerns and will leave it at that and just pray he puts our son first.

[ivykaty44]

well you can tell your dh before he goes that Docotrs abroad will report him to the authorities and give him the biggest dressing down of his life if ds gets sun stoke or is brint.

i sat outside the appointment room whilst a dad took his sunburnt child into see the doctor and was petriffied of the doctor from 10 foot away

Just remind him that it will be considered very differently aborad and he must remember to cover the chidl in suncream that is all you ask

ignore th elate nights and the silly foods and the rest of it

just say the one and ony thing I want you to remember id the cream

possibly say if you do forget I would have no qualms about reporting you myself

but you have to let all the other stuff go

This is said by a fair skinned blond with a fair skinned blond child and a fair skined teen who brought the cream and gave to the child and said under no circumstances do you let them burn or colour.