Help - how can I get him to do stuff without nagging?!

[Wholelottalove]

DH is a very laid back person. I think we have a reasonable split of childcare/housework although it isn't at the 50:50 nirvana I would love. However, I am so, so frustrated at the moment with a couple of issues and have no clue any more as to how to tackle them. Bascially, no matter how many times I ask and in what way there are certain things he just will not do.

One example is around tax. He is self-emlpoyed with irregular income. I look after all our finances other than tax - obviously tax office will not speak to me. It is now into the third year running where his return has not been on time. He has amassed £300 of completely avoidable fines so far and is now being charged interest on them and still has not paid. I have lost count of the strategies I've tried to get him to do the tax in a timely way which means we don't get fined and sort out paying existing fine.

I have tried:

Asking, then leaving him to do it = nothing
Nagging repeatedly = nothing
Throwing huge strop = nothing
Having serious conversations about how powerless/upset/annoyed/etc certain things not getting done is making me feel = nothing
Pleading (in tears) for him to just do it = nothing
Leaving it and saying nothing for months = nothing

You can ditto the above for loads of things. If I ask him to do/not to do something it is like talking to brick wall. I've lost count of number of conversations I've had with him trying to explain washing = putting clothes in, taking them out, hanging them up and putting away, not leaving it in machine to go creased and smelly. With the washing I've tried not nagging and it just gets left there - sometimes for days. Ditto leaving dirty cothes on floor, leaving skid marks on toilet, not washing up (I cook most nights), he's never once washed the kitchen or dining room floor etc...

I have asked him before to make appointments - e.g. DD's jabs or cat vets appointment, but he just won't do it - makes no difference if I nag all the time or just ask once and then leave him to it, reminding every so often.

Now other than the tax I could just do these things myself and feel I have to in case of our DD's and cat's welfare (e.g. DD has MMR over 3 months late because I kept asking him to sort it and he didn't and eventually I arranged it myself). So should I just give up trying to have a relationship where we're equals in terms of taking responsibility for things and division of labour?

Whilst he is a fantastic Dad and contributes a lot around the house (he does majority of food shopping, various DIY type jobs - eventually! - and mowing lawn, and often takes DD out for an hour at the weekend to give me a break), I still feel like I am responsible for running everything.

I do love him, we have another DC on the way, but I am so frustrated with some of these issues. I really can't see how he will change so I guess I have to find a way not to stress about it and accept this is the situation and there are other things he does do and is good at.

If anyone has any ideas/views/experience I would be really grateful and sorry for the epic post.

[LucyLouLou]

I'm not sure if this qualifies as advice, but I am going to shamefully admit to you that I share some of those tendencies . I am known as the ridiculously laidback one in my family. It frustrates people sometimes, because I do require reminders to do certain things.

That said, I'm nowhere near as bad as your DH. When you scream and shout at him, what is his reaction? I know you say 'nothing', but I'm guessing this doesn't mean he sits there and actually says nothing? Might be able to give you some pointers if you could let us know that? FWIW, I respond to guilt trips from friends and tend to improve after that....although I think it's definitely safe to say that there are people who are genuinely just so laidback you need to (verbally) hit them with a ten tonne truck....!

Does your DH care about the fines? What does he say about this? Does he acknowledge it to be his fault?

[ItsGraceActually]

Google passive-aggressive.

[Wholelottalove]

Hmm, LucyLouLou - he genuinly doesn't respond much - his stock response is 'I'm sorry, I know I'm crap - I love you' (in slightly hangdog tones) or just says he will do it tomorrow.

ItsGraceActually - well, I have thought passive-aggressive before TBH, but I don't think there is mailce to it - I think it could be subconscious perhaps. I'm not sure.

[PeppermintPasty]

Hmm, I tend to agree Grace, but watching this thread as I have the same trouble. He will do stuff, but only when asked, sometimes repeatedly, but I reckon that in 10 yrs together he has spontaneously looked at the floor and got the hoover out and actually used it twice.

My theory is that I am 13 yrs older than him, in a better paid job, more sure of myself, and generally better at the talking thing(aren't we all). I think I have emasculated him in the past(not without justification!) and he does, or rather doesn't, do this stuff to shake up the balance of power. It's improved since the children, but my pet hate-leaving clothes on floor, wet towels on bed, hasn't.

Now, finally(duh), I've said to him if they're not in the basket they won't get washed, and I stick to it. It may be seeping through finally...hmm.

Sorry for venting on your thread OP!!

One thing I would ask is -why does he only take your daughter out for a short time?? Does he do more than that with her??

[Haliborange]

Just write him a list, pin it to the fridge and tell him to get on with it.
Men don't listen when you nag but they do respond to the power of the list, even if it is a PITA and makes you feel like their mother to write it...

[LucyLouLou]

I think he sounds totally without malice, he's basically me times 100. I know it's not much help but at least you know the likes of us don't do it to piss you off, we're just genuinely crap .

I would attempt what Haliborange suggested. A list forces some order into his life, definitely worth a shot!

[LittleMissHissyFit]

or (d)...

Buy a big gun....

It is so much easier to be bloody bone idle and let it all go to shit isn't it.

You have another Dc on the way, all the more reason to get this sorted.

It's not good enough, tell him you will leave/kick him out if you are forced to be a single parent, with him as an additional child.

Seriously, this could be the end of your relationship, you will feel let down by him, lose all respect for him and resent every hair on his head if he doesn't buck his ideas up.

Ask him what he is going to do for you, and hold him to it. Get him to chose a task and don't let him palm it off onto you.

Try the list.

[Wholelottalove]

PeppermintPasty - no, not at all! Really interested in hearing other people's views/experiences. I think it is probably pretty common problem TBH. Well, I am also in more career orientated job than DH and better at verabl communication - he says no point in arguing with me as I will just run verbal rings round him, and he's probably got a point.

Yeah, I did do the boycott of his washing for ages too! Slowly started creeping back in now though.

Oh yes, he does loads with her - he's home with her one day a week and also works quite a lot of Saturdays, we do bedtime together. He nearly always takes her swimming (prob more like 2 hrs actually) at the weekend or to his Mum's house. Actually, have to say now I'm past the really ill phase of early pg maybe not so much, but I prob get more time off than he does TBH, and prob more of the Sunday lie-ins too.

[Wholelottalove]

Sorry, I got caught on phone call writing above.

A big gun, that could work...

The list thing - Oh God, it DOES make me feel like his Mum to write a list and tbh I would resent it. We've had problems with some of this stuff before, to the point we were quite rocky as the resentment and contempt was creeping in. It did improve a lot after various things came to a head, but seems to be slipping back again now. I may be stressing about it all again as DC2 on way and I know the workload will go up, plus I will be doing all the night feeds as bf etc. From last time mat leave, things got worse when I was at home as it means you do end up falling into the traditional roles.

We're both already pretty slack with housework it has to be said, but I think whereas it bothers me if floor hasn't been hoovered in three weeks, he doesn't care.

[SolidGoldBrass]

The problem is that he doesn't want to do it. He thinks domestic work is your job, because you don't have a penis. ANd also, whenever you ask him to do something, he says to himself 'She's whining again, women don't half whine, but she'll stop soon. ANd then she'll go and do whatever it is. SO I'll just endure the whining.' Though I understand that you simply can't do the tax thing for him, I imagine that he's got himself in the mindset where he's just going to ignore everything you say, no matter what.

[pithyslicker]

Or you both have different standards. I used to live with someone who had far higher standards for housework than me and it was very draining. I've lived on my own for years and it is surprising how little housework can be done. But then again I only have me and the DCs to worry about.

[ItsGraceActually]

I'm passive-aggressive. It comes from a childhood full of being 'told to'. I do know how to break up a task - and to negotiate over things I don't want to do - but those are skills I learned later. The child whose only defence was silent non-compliance still gets the last say. I'm even p-a against myself and, umm, have 4 years' worth of overdue tax statements in a box over there

What worked for you before? I have to be terribly gentle & encouraging with myself. It might be worth having a really quite in-depth chat with him over how he feels when he thinks about the tax statements, etc, and see if this leads the pair of you towards easier teamwork.

If it was all about housework then, bearing in mind the other things you've said, I'd be tempted to think you've gone into a nesting frenzy & will calm down later! But you've demonstrated there's a long-standing problem. My amateur psychology probably sounds over the top ... but, as somebody said, this will layer up if unaddressed, and cause serious rifts as time goes on.

[Wholelottalove]

Believe me, my housework standards are lax, and will no doubt be slipping further when DC2 arrives, but need to make sure it isn't actually a health hazard!

solidgoldbrass yes, I know But there must be something I can do? Other than give up? Who the hell does want to do crappy housework and chores anyway? It's just, well someone has to do it, especially if it's vaccinations or something important.

I have to admit I need to get into the mindset where I don't care what other people think of 'my' house - I will find myself apologising for the mess if someone comes round, but there is no way DH would - he wouldn't care, because people don't see it as his responsibility - when do you hear someone say 'have you seen the state of his house? Doesn't he ever do any housework, lazy git' etc?

The problem is when I start thinking like that I get really angry but that anger has nowhere to go really, so what's the point?

Off to bed, thank you for your thoughts

[ItsGraceActually]

I've always resolved my own issues by hiring a cleaner and a bookkeeper I'd have them now if I weren't so broke!

[AlisonDubois]

If you are SAHM then surely you could sort out MMR shots. I mean, I don't know anyone who leaves it to DH to sort it. I am suprised that you didn't sort it out sooner rather than just sit back and wait 3 months for Dh to sort it out.

[PeppermintPasty]

I've just asked my dp about it. No, he doesn't think housework is my domain only, he does help out....but it appears to be mostly my fault that he doesn't do more, I am apparently too efficient....

Ah, of course.

[kingfix]

as a slacker laidback person myself I would say don't jump to over negative interpretations - may not be a male chauvenist or passive aggressive thing he may just be blind to some of the things that need doing. I'm married to another ..er.. relaxed person but we are lazy in differnt areas which has led to tension over the years.
Some of what you list sounds negotiable to me, I mean the consequences of his not doing it are irritating but not awful e.g the washing.
Some are clearly out of order, like the tax (unless you are loaded ).
So what's worked in my house is

1. 'Natural consequences': when I get pissed off with my DH never doing laundry, I stop doing his laundry (just mine & kids) and tell him so. He gets round to it when he runs out of sports stuff.
2. housework, we do live in squalor, but we blitz it together for an hour or so occasionally- thereby no feelings of resentment when one of you is scrubbing the toilet while the other watches tv. We also reward ourselves at the end. No, we are not very grown up.
3. for the financial stuff would an accountant be less than the fines + interest? I know it's his responsibilty but his stalling is costing you both.

[SpiritualKnot]

What works with most people is to say "would you?" rather than say "could you?"

My sister is a psychologist and it was her that told me that. Apparently "would you" makes people feel charitable and good and they usually say yes to the task requested. "Could you" makes people feel like saying " yes, I COULD, but I don't want to"

Works for me anyway.

[ItsGraceActually]

Yep, SN, in my work-related training we were taught to say "will you" (note the lack of conditional) The man said 'How does it sound to you if a guy asks his girlfriend: "Could you marry me?"' Leave the sexism aside for a minute ... it just doesn't sound assertive does it??

[Wholelottalove]

Grace thanks for your messages, I think DH has some passive-aggressive traits from doing a google search. I have had talks with him about his tax before and I think it makes him anxious etc. He does have an accontant, the issue has been he never sorts his records/recipts/bank statements to to him until about a day before tax is due, meaning it ends up late.

Like the 'would you' approach - will try and do that.

alison I'm not a SAHM, I work 4 days a week as does DH so we have DD equal amounts. Not sure therefore why my job to do jabs every time - we are equally responsible as her parents. I did do her baby jabs (on time!) but with MMR I was probably more laid back as she was that bit older and did forget a couple of times as DH had agreed to sort it out. However, I did do it in the end because I know it is important. Over 2 years DH has only ever taken her to docs once IIRC, I normally do all docs, dentists etc.

As for cleaner...I think we need to consider it, we could probably afford maybe a couple of hours a month.

[TheFutureMrsClooney]

OP, I'm just divorcing your husband now!

The huge resentment I felt about him not doing what he needs to do, nor doing anything which contributed to the happiness of anyone but himself turned into complete contempt and I couldn't bear to live with him any more.

His response over sorting anything admin/financial was always, "but you're better at it than me" when really he just forgot or couldn't be bothered.

Have you tried splitting what needs doing so that you're both doing what you're best at?

And Grace is right about passive-aggressive. From outside our marriage I look like a control freak but it's the only I can cope.

[Coolfonz]

Is he a pothead?

[Eurostar]

Buy him a book on procrastination for his birthday?

This one has a lot of good reviews...

www.amazon.com/Procrastination-Why-You-What-About/dp/0738209562?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

It's got a chapter on living with a procrastinator too

[Wholelottalove]

mrsclooney oh dear, don't think we're at that stage although when sleep deprivation gets thrown in I can get a bit murderous about it! Splitting duties is a good idea and we should maybe do that in a more formal way.

coolfonz er, no.

Sort of feel like I have been unfairly moaning a little now. DH came home from work and disappeared outside where I discovered him an hour later clearing up our patio. He'd noticed it needed doing... I was slightly but pleased. It look stacks better now, which I told him and said thanks.

Thanks for book sugg eurostar will look it up. I could probably do with it myself as well... I'm not exactly the world's best at times either :o