Redundancy while off sick

(62 Posts)
KatieMcFlightly Wed 05-Sep-12 21:03:56

I've been off sick with work related stress for 6 months and have had a letter telling me that there are going to be redundancies at work. There are 20 of us and the council are cutting us down to 14. We have all got to apply for our jobs and 14 of us will be appointed. I've been given a skills matching form to fill in. I'm off sick, can they make me redundant? What happens if I'm not well enough to go back to work if I'm appointed? Can I stay off sick? Thanks

KatieMcFlightly Wed 05-Sep-12 23:09:07

Finiching my degrree was therapeutic. They cant prove any of that though.

RubyrooUK Wed 05-Sep-12 23:17:37

Fair enough. I think it's hard for a bunch of people online to really appreciate if your boss is a bitch. It just hasn't read like that.

But obviously if you are best qualified for the job (and keen to go back when you are no longer ill so you don't want to take redundancy), I guess you have a very good chance of avoiding being laid off.

Virgil Wed 05-Sep-12 23:17:46

So how do you know what others will score. The selection criteria may include things such as attitude and team working. It seems unlikely that you would know that you would score more highly.

And I'm afraid that most employers will ensure that the selection matrix is designed to ensure their problem
Employees come out at the bottom. This is just the way it is.

It doesn't sound like your condition will amount to a disability and as a result you may score badly on attendance.

Virgil Wed 05-Sep-12 23:19:15

In addition people often think that qualifications are everything. They are not. If an employee has a masters degree and another only has A levels, but the job actually only requires A levels then the employee with the masters degree should not score any more highly.

Floggingmolly Wed 05-Sep-12 23:20:35

Unless legislation has changed recently, inability to do your job; whether due to lack of appropriate skills, or chronic illness which prevents you actually being in the workplace is grounds for dismissal. This being the case I'd imagine it would certainly impact negatively on your application.
What value to the company are your qualifications and experience if you are not actually there?
Six months (with no end is sight) is a long time. Who is expected to fill in for you? Why would they not be favoured over you, given that they can work and you can't?

Virgil Wed 05-Sep-12 23:22:07

Similarly experience works in the same way. If I work on a production line for 30 years but actually it only take a month for someone to be fully trained on that production line then my 30 years experience does not mean that I will score more highly than someone who has been there for a year. On the other handing I do a job where I get better and better and better the longer I do it and that improvement is of benefit to my employer then my experience may help me in a selection process. Most jobs however only have this effect up to a certain point (generally a few years).

KatieMcFlightly Wed 05-Sep-12 23:24:00

The council cover my sickness. I know for a fact that I am most qualified

Virgil Wed 05-Sep-12 23:26:54

If I was advising your employer I would be telling them to look to dismiss you for capability as a result of the fact that you have been off since march. This is a fair Reason for dismissal.

How do you think you can insist on your job back if the job has disappeared?

Floggingmolly Wed 05-Sep-12 23:27:18

Actually, Tellybug, I agree with you. This one stinks to high heaven...

Selks Wed 05-Sep-12 23:33:19

I find this thread hard to believe to be honest. I've worked in public services for many years and nowhere have I seen it possible for someone io be off sick for six months and still be paid. Yes people sometimes do go off sick got many months eg if mentally ill or with a serious illness but after a couple of months pay is reduced then it goes to statutory sick pay only; the person cannot remain off sick indefinitely and still draw their salary - those days are long gone. And if someone is off long term sick they have regular meetings with their manager / H R to see if they can be assisted back into work.

TellyBug Wed 05-Sep-12 23:36:46

Katie was teaching secondary in 2010 according to old posts.

buttons33 Wed 05-Sep-12 23:54:40

Teacher sick pay is 6 months full and 6 months half pay. With a doctor's note. A teacher can come back for one day and then go off sick again. However capability procedures should be implemented if someone is off on the sick for such a long time.

I would think the OP's attitude stinks now matter what job she does but, being a teacher myself, I'm especially horrified!! By both the attitude to work/boss/'entitlement' and the bad spelling, grammar and punctuation...

I wouldn't be surprised if you find that you are made redundant. If not, expect capability procedures to begin as soon as you go back. I believe that being off sick does NOT protect you from capability leading to dismissal.

buttons33 Wed 05-Sep-12 23:55:22

*no
not 'now'

hairytale Thu 06-Sep-12 04:34:57

This has to be a wind up.

NapaCab Thu 06-Sep-12 05:28:11

Unfortunately, for the skeptics on this thread, the OP being off for six months on full pay wouldn't be unusual at all in the public sector.

I worked in a university and staff were entitled to six months' sick leave on full pay and six months' half-pay, so effectively 9 months' full pay. There were an unusual number of people off sick with stress. A couple of them even came back for a few weeks to give a new arrangement a try and then went off sick again.

For the OP, you need to find out what the selection criteria for the redundancy process is. It's pretty common for employers, in both private and public sectors, to manage the selection criteria precisely so they can get rid of difficult employees. With your attitude, you shouldn't be too surprised if your employer takes this approach and uses attendance record as the basis for the selection.

Either way, if you hate your job and your boss that much, you'd be better off finding a new job rather than sulking over what happened in the past.

NapaCab Thu 06-Sep-12 05:32:25

Oh and just to confirm, from my own experience while being in a genuine situation of illegality by my former employer that I had to take legal action on, sickness doesn't protect you from redundancy. Being off sick won't help your situation and may complicate it in fact because if you are selected for redundancy, you won't be available for interviews regarding mitigation of the redundancy e.g. interviews for alternative roles.

Heartbeep Thu 06-Sep-12 05:48:19

Are you actually sick now OP or do you just not want to work with your boss anymore?

Virgil Thu 06-Sep-12 07:01:16

Well if it's teaching then your experience definitely won't save you on its own. More recently qualified teachers can be said to bring more up to date knowledge of methods and techniques.

EdithWeston Thu 06-Sep-12 07:10:27

Also, the additional degree won't add anything, as in a state school it is QTS that counts and you appear not to have been at work for long enough since acquiring it for you to be able to demonstrate that it has made any difference to your performance.

As it is reapplication for the posts, then you need to look at the form as a job application from scratch, your belief that you are in particular more experienced will be scrutinised. This is not a synonym for "longer in post", so it is type and extent of experience and how it is relevant to the current job description that counts. And indeed recent experience may well be the most valued.

SoupDragon Thu 06-Sep-12 07:14:17

So, you were off work with work related stress for 3 months because you couldn't cope with your job.
Your boss arranged it so you had less responsibility for the same money , you tied this for one day and went off sick again because you wanted the job and all the responsibility you couldn't cope with...?
You managed to complete your degree whilst off sick?

Basically, you may be the most "qualified" but if you can't do the job why should they pay you to do nothing and make someone else redundant?

No one wants to lose their job but you are the one least able to do their job so it doesn't look good.

Losingitall Thu 06-Sep-12 07:18:11

I would be dismissing you on grounds of capability. In my Co your sick pay would have expired and unless I had occ health advice saying you were fit to return soon you would be going.

Sorry.

Businesses are not a charity.

twofalls Thu 06-Sep-12 07:23:33

I can't believe this thread is real. The sense of entitlement astounds me. I am frankly gobsmacked. But the fact so many posters are answering sensibly indicates this type of situation is pretty common.

sherbetpips Thu 06-Sep-12 07:38:15

My ds teacher last year managed to be off sick for three years, she would come in for 2 weeks at the beginning of term then not be seen again for the next year. Really upset my ds at the time having stand in teachers. She finally resigned this year so can't screw up any more kids education.
Never understood being off with stress, if you can't cope with your job you leave and get a different job, well that what happens in the private sector. Is it easier to take the mickey in the public sector?

In a recent round of redundancies at my work, absence was one of the criteria (criterion?) taken into account.

And as the parent of a child whose maths teacher was off for most of his Higher year, I agree with others who say that you should look for something more suitable.

hairytale Thu 06-Sep-12 08:40:00

"Never understood being off with stress, if you can't cope with your job you leave and get a different job, well that what happens in the private sector"

Hang on a sec. Not everyOne off with stress is taking the Mick. While the OP here does appear to have a very entitled stance, and this particular case seems far fetched, there are genuine cases! You can't just leave a job and get another when you suffer from stress!

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