Builder and contract ? Your advice please !!

[woodforthetrees]

We have finally chosen a builder for our major project - it's a big 2 storey extension effectively doubling the size of our house....so - the builder we've gone with is more of a numbers on the back of a fag packet guy (he comes recommended by friends who say he is the most trustworthy etc etc guy and he's done lots of stuff for them).

The other three quotes we got were from more "regular" outfits with beautfully typed quotes etc etc.

Anyway, I suspect had we gone with the other builders they might have produced a contract of some sort.....Our guy I don't think is going to do that.

I'd like to go someway between a full on JCT type contract and nothing at all (I'm a lawyer too so my lawyer head tells me not to be so daft and have nothing) - but I don't want to put him off and appear all arsey from the start by producing something he'll need to take legal advice on.

What sort of "arrangement" do you have with your builder please and can you direct me anywhere to get advice. I have a construction lawyer colleague at work but I know he's just going to produce a 100 page document which the builder is unlikely to sign !!.....

[TooManySprinkles]

We found a contract administrator who drafted a letter along the lines of the JCT which our builder and we signed. I think you are (and you know this) very unwise to enter into major works with no sort of agreement behind you no matter how 'trustworthy' your friends say he his. Just ask Pavlov (another mumsnetter who is now sueing her builder - he is counter-sueing her).

Ask yourself WHY he wouldn't want to sign a contract? He's obviously not stupid if he can manage a major project so no reason he can't sign a contract.

Sorry to sound alarmist but for your peace of mind (and his) you need to get something formal in place and put the fag packets in the bin

[woodforthetrees]

I know that's right and I know I'm going to be the one down the line who is screaming at DH wondering why we didn't do it !

[woodforthetrees]

In case anyone else needs to know - I've found a couple of really helpful plain english contracts on the federation of master builders websites....just go to the contracts page and you can download.

[MadameCastafiore]

I would most of all make sure you have it in writing when he is going to get paid and what work needs to have been done at each stage for him to get paid and then finally the big payment at the end when all of the snagging list is complete.

[woodforthetrees]

Yep, went through the contract and it covers all the basic stuff like that he'll do it with reasonable care and attention etc and then I'm going to bespoke the payment section - he sub-contracts a lot of stuff and we're paying the sub-contractors direct although that's included in our final price and then we'll need a snagging sum won't we which we retain until we're happy all has been done.

It's a v.stressful time as we're also trying to find somewhere to rent !....and move out - I work and we've got two pre-schoolers so I need to ensure we don't land ourselves in too big a mess or even if we do that we are properly covered to deal with it....

[canella]

we didnt get a signed contract from our builder (yes we were fools) and the job never got finished properly and he still tried to charge us VAT which had never been mentioned at any point in the discussions!

glad you've got a contract sorted - it would have saved me so much stress! its put me off builders for life!

i'm sure if you get the contract signed and some timescales incorporated into it then it should go fairly smoothly! it'll be worth it when its done!

[jeanjeannie]

Phew - saw this thread earlier and didn't have time to post...I'm so pleased you're going down the contract route. If he doesn't want to sign - or discuss etc, etc then walk away! I still having sweats thinking about Pavlov's trauma .... which is now a court case

Just one word of advice - draw up a schedule of payments and ensure payment is only handed over once the work is done to your satisfaction. Good luck with it all. And remember ...you are the client!

[woodforthetrees]

I know - that is the point at the end of the day isn't it - we're the client and he's doing work for us and we're paying him - I seem to have taken this stupid idea of not wanting to "offend" him by asking him to sign a contract but when I went through the contract itself today it really is written in very plain english, doesn't try to pull the wool over everyone's eyes and just does what it says on the tin - dealing with the main things that you're expecting anyway. It's ridiculous isn't it that I can be pretty bullish in my work life and quite bolshy in my personal life if I want to get something done but I'm feeling like I'm about to put my life in someone's hands and suddenly I'm being a pushover !. You lot have talked sense in to me and if he ain't happy well we might have saved ourselves a lot of hassle (and money) in the long run eh!

Let's see what happens....

[kc3]

Agree with Jeanjeannie about payment schedule and I would also want a detailed quote. It is a big job and you need to ensure that everything is included for and also any exclusions ie flooring, ceramic tiling, allowance for bathrooms, allowance for kitchen etc.

[SofiaAmes]

what is it about lawyers....they all seem to go completely mushy when it comes to their personal lives. You should NEVER enter into a construction project without a contract. It doesn't matter if it's as little as painting your front room...You need a contract so that it's in writing what you are expecting to get and what he is expecting to give. You need specific details about what he is going to do and how he is going to do it and then how much you are going to pay and how your are going to pay it. If you are paying the subcontractors directly, how are you going to coordinate instructions to them and what happens if you are unhappy with their work, but they say they have done what the contractor told them to do?
Sorry to go on, but I am an architect and have seen so many projects that went wrong because of miscommunication and misunderstandings.

[jeanjeannie]

Couldn't agree more about the sub contractors!
Also if this guy doesn't have a contract..how does he know the client will pay him?! My DP's contract gets thrashed out with each client to suit both parties..it takes weeks in some cases! Miscommunication and an 'understanding' of what is considered satisfactory work can cost a lot of money.