What is reasonable wear and tear on a rental after 12 years?

[FithColumnist]

DH and I have been renting a two bed flat for 12 years. Our landlords are somewhat on the cheap side (for example, we finally persuaded them to fit a shower only last year after kicking up a fuss about yet another rent increase) and the place wasn't exactly in brilliant condition when we moved in: the carpets were at least ten years old, the fixtures and fittings dating from the 1970s, no central heating (just one storage heater in the hall and to say that the decor was dated is being generous. However, the rent was cheap for what is a relatively naice area, and we redecorated throughout when we moved in.

However, rent has gone up by almost £200 since we moved in, and so we'd dearly like to move. We are in the process of saving for a deposit and first months rent on a new flat, but money's tight and we're obviously keen to get our full deposit back. The agent is being a bit evasive when questioned about whether it's protected or not, which is making me rather .

Given that the carpets etc are at least twenty years old (and, if they take the opportunity to gut the place and make it look like it's had work done on it at some point during this century they could rent it out for at least £400/month on top of what we pay at the moment...), what kind of deductions would be reasonable from the deposit?

[PartyFops]

I think the fact that you have been there so long means that they will expect a fair amount of wear and tear. It will be damage the look for, are there holes in carpet (not through wear), are there knife marks on worktops, etc. How good quality were the carpets.

Without checking, because your deposit was taken so long ago it may not need to be protected , was it started or renewed since 2007?

[LumelaMme]

If were a landlord with a tenant who'd been in a property for 12 years, I think I'd only withhold any deposit if you'd seriously junked the place - broken the bath, punched holes in the walls, busted the doors off their hinges. After that length of time, you'd be expecting to replace what were old carpets to begin with, update the bathroom and probably the kitchen, redecorate...

I hope for your sake your deposit is protected.

[PigletJohn]

Have you got a written copy of the inventory you signed when you moved in?

[Mintyy]

Is £200 per month a lot of increase over 12 years?

[pierpressure]

From October older deposits also have to be protected. Hang on till then and then check that it has been.

[FithColumnist]

PigletJohn there was no inventory, it was rented unfurnished.

PartyFops the tenancy has been renewed several times since, as the initial contract was just 12 months. They have had a tendency to just let it roll unless I chase them for a new contract though.

LumelaMme that's reassuring, thanks! I'm not sure what would happen if it's not protected, though.

[MajesticWhine]

I would expect a lot of wear and tear after 12 years, infact I would probably be anticipating redecorating throughout, and maybe putting in a new bathroom and kitchen. There is no way I withhold any of the deposit unless some serious damage had occurred, or if any rent was unpaid obviously. I'm thinking maybe broken windows or doors.

[specialsubject]

carpets, curtains, paintwork after 12 years even if new (which they weren't) all need rework/repaint/replace. NO deduction would be reasonable unless actual damage.

if you had a new fixed term lease since 2007 then the deposit protection legislation kicks in. In which case...you know the rest.

[PigletJohn]

If there is no signed inventory, nobody can prove that anything damaged wasn't like that when you moved in.

[PartyFops]

You can contact TDS DPS and MyDeposit and see if your deposit is registered.

But I would expect only malicious damage to be deducted.

[PartyFops]

m.england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/tenancy_deposits/tenancy_deposit_protection_schemes/deposit_protection_and_tenancy_deposit_schemes
Some useful information here.

[RandomMess]

After 12 years I'd expect it to need full redecoration and carpets as a minimum. Most kitchens are pretty tired after 12 years too!

I agree only malicious damage to be deducted.

[inmyshoos]

My Dad is a landlord. If he has a good tenant then he would never withhold any deposit unless they trashed the place. Last tenant to move out was a smoker and everything was badly yellowed. Had to have a full re do. All woodwork, wall, ceilings, carpets, grout, flooring in kitchen/bathroom, blinds, the whole lot. She had been a tenant for around 6 years, never missed rent and never any hassle.

[specialsubject]

so you've had new contracts since 2007? In that case the deposit needs to be protected. Make that clear to the agent. Plenty of info about here and elsewhere (shelter, gov.uk) about the actions you can take if it hasn't been done.

if the deposit is not protected no deductions can be made even if you have destroyed the place. More fool the landlord.

[IHavemyownLighthouseyouknow]

I had tenants in for a 2 and a half year contract, & was told by the letting agents that even though they had broken the blinds, pulled chunks of plaster off the wall taking down posters/pictures, broken every light in the kitchen and stained the bedroom carpet, that it was classed as wear & tear after that long. They also said that it is very hard to withhold deposit money these days, and the landlord only has 10 days to make a claim after the end of the tenancy.

After 12 years, I very much doubt your landlord would be able to withhold any of your deposit money unless you had seriously trashed the place. Good luck!

[specialsubject]

no, that wasn't wear and tear, that was damage. Crap agent.

but yes, the schemes are biased to the tenant and landlords have to get a shift on. Not protecting the deposit blows it totally.

[lalalonglegs]

Kind of missing the point but £200 rise in 12 years doesn't seem unreasonable even if the place is a bit on the shabby side .

No, your LL shouldn't deduct a bean after that amount of time though unless damage is obviously malicious.

[Sunnyshores]

It depends what % increase £200 is. But if it was £500 and 12 years later is £700, that doesnt sound like a big increase. You say they could get another £400pcm if freshened up, so it doesnt sound as if you were paying excessively.

Re deposit, I agree with the others. Id be expecting to replace carpets, paint everywhere, new kitchen/ Id be very grateful for a good tenant staying 12 years!

[Sotonwhere]

IMO you need to sort your deposit into a protection scheme rather than worry about wear and tear. Unless you protect it they can do anything they like and nick the whole lot. It will be a big hassle for you to try and get back.
I personally would send them a letter stating you will not be paying the last 4/6 or whatever weeks of rent and they can keep your deposit to cover this period since they didn't protect it in a government mandated scheme. Others might disagree but this is what I did when I was in a similar situation.
Otherwise you could insist they protect it asap. If they refuse you can take them to court and you'd likely get a multiple of the deposit back (in theory). I'd use this theory as leverage to force them to accept me not paying the last few weeks but your choice what you wish to do.
It is the LL's responsibility to prove any damage etc was caused by you or they can't take a penny. This is why I'd take drastic action- I was stung too many times before the deposit protection scheme came into existence.