Aaargh, what to offer on £550k house

(23 Posts)
Mandy21 Fri 07-Dec-12 12:58:14

http://www.blog.neilmyerson.co.uk/?p=1049

Have a look at the above link - solicitor's blog detailing recent Court case. Purchaser split £258,000 purchase price between £250,000 for the house and £8,000 for "chattels" - which is legitimate provided you are genuinely buying £8,000 worth of "extras" i.e. not fixtures / fittings that would have been part of the sale in any event. As Mrs Campbell has said, if items are listed in the sales particulars, e.g. the kitchen is described as "lovely kitchen with aga, built in washing machine etc" then the implication is that they are part of the house and included in what the seller is offering as part of the purchase price (so apparently paying for them separately won't be justified). If the sales particulars say "lovely kitchen, range of cupboards etc" but don't mention anything about the aga and the other things you're buying, then its reasonable to assume they are available for purchase on top of the property price.

But, having said that, the price you are paying outside of the property transaction, i.e. £10k, needs to be a realistic figure. Don't forget that the authorities only need to find that you should have paid £500,001 for the property for the whole of the transaction to fall within the 4% threshold.

MrsCampbellBlack Fri 07-Dec-12 11:02:08

Aga surely normally part of the fixtures as they're such a bloody pain/expense to move. Does sound like tax dodginess to me and no wonder the vendor suggested it but surprised your solicitor hasn't advised against it. As ours told us when we were buying - you just really want to get on HMRC's special list.

I'd offer £500k and say that's it.

Good luck Noddy! Does it need masses doing?

lalalonglegs Fri 07-Dec-12 10:55:58

I think the others are right. Unless the payment is a realistic representation of the value of the goods, it's seen as tax evasion... HMRC is very hot on these sorts of deals especially when they take place around the stamp duty threshold. They may want to see the original sales details - if items such as the Aga are mentioned in those, they will consider them part of the sale and not an additional extra.

jammybean Fri 07-Dec-12 10:41:11

Sheesh...shock The vendor has thrown in all the white goods, an aga and a few other extras. They don't actually total 10k, more like 7, but that's how the solicitors have dealt with it so its covered not just a cash payment Iyswim. The vendor & agents idea not ours.

Mandy21 Fri 07-Dec-12 10:01:35

You're allowed to pay his fees but as Eurostar says, reducing the official purchase price in order to bring it below the stamp duty threshold is illegal. Your solicitor has to complete a stamp duty form declaring the purchase price, and there are serious consequences if that is different to the price you've actually paid. The authorities investigate transactions on or around the thresholds specifically to make sure people are not doing this, you could find yourself having to pay the correct stamp duty and a hefty fine if you're found out.

Eurostar Fri 07-Dec-12 00:49:39

jammy - paying a "sweetner" is tax evasion, who advised you that this was OK?

allagory Thu 06-Dec-12 23:52:07

Hmm..sounds like some estate agents special shenanigans...offer 500k in writing and cc it to the address you want to buy. That way you knw it has got through to the vendors. Sometimes it doesn't I always suspect..

jammybean Thu 06-Dec-12 23:44:04

Mandy, to pay his fees? or the 10k?

Mandy21 Thu 06-Dec-12 19:55:43

You're not allowed to do that jammybean

jammybean Thu 06-Dec-12 18:37:31

I'd say there's no harm in putting in an offer at 500k but from experience the vendor is likely to hold out for offers over esp. within London where properties are snapped up in weeks rather than months. FWIW the house were currently buying was on at 540k but we offered 500 as a best and final. It was accepted. However we're paying the vendors fees plus a 10k sweetener to keep it under the threshold. There were other offers on the table at the 500k mark but ours turned out to be the strongest because of the above and we don't have a chain.

noddyholder Thu 06-Dec-12 18:25:05

There is an agency here for people who need to sell but can't afford fees and they negotiate on behalf of the buyer as the buyer pays those fees.

lalalonglegs Thu 06-Dec-12 18:09:52

Oooh, I like the sound of that having just kept a flat empty for 4 months for a buyer who *changed his mind" just before exchange 《bitter》. How did the vendors negotiate that one?

noddyholder Thu 06-Dec-12 17:45:08

I know that! But one is a complicated scenario where I will pay all the sellers fees as well as my own and need to pay £500 holding fee to register my offer.This may be forever but I doubt it. 14 th house in as many years Bring it on!

lalalonglegs Thu 06-Dec-12 17:20:14

noddy - it's England, you can offer on any amount of houses and drop out along the line. Offer tomorrow and if you're successful with the other house you can always back off, safe in the knowledge they have six other people lined up to view.

Are either of these going to be your forever house wink?

ISeeSmallPeople Thu 06-Dec-12 17:14:40

I offered £465 and had £475 accepted

Mandy21 Thu 06-Dec-12 17:04:45

Only my view but I anticipate anyone listing at £550 knows that offers won't go above £500k due to stamp duty. Are you ready to go? I think if houses such as this don't come on the market very often, and its popular, then you'll need to stand out from the crowd as everyone who offers will probably be making offers at the same level - so I know you said you can't offer a quick sale, but you'll have to have something up your sleeve for making the vendors accept your offer. Otherwise, if you really want it, I think you might end up having to offer over £500k especially if there are already offers on the table. Good luck!

ISeeSmallPeople Thu 06-Dec-12 16:25:32

Offer £465, & buy it for anything under £500. smile

noddyholder Thu 06-Dec-12 16:12:03

I would put a note through the door then. I think 10% off is ok. I am in house dilemma too atm. House going to sealed bids offers over a minimum. Agent knows I won't offer that as I said my max was under their minimum. So I asked him if its worth submitting as we have seen another house and don't ant to lose it but he won't give me any indication and bids have to be in Monday but other house I need to offer tomorrow or 6 viewings on it saturday! So stressful. Is your house under offer?

luciadilammermoor Thu 06-Dec-12 16:04:28

Noddyholder - I don't know tbh, but I did wonder about sticking a letter through the door introducing ourselves, explaining the situation and saying that if we were able to see it and made an offer, we would not pull out. Can't offer a fast sale but can offer a firm one kinda thing?

The house is on the next road along to us, easy to do, nothing to lose.

Just made me wonder if by pricing it at 550k, they're hoping for c525k, but a -10% offer doesn't seem wrong when I look at nethouseprices trends in the local area etc. Value wise, I think it's worth 490k, I would pay 499,999 to get it. not a penny more.

TeamBacon Thu 06-Dec-12 15:58:27

Yep, offer the threshold

AfterEightMintyy Thu 06-Dec-12 15:55:56

Yes, I would say offer just under the threshold.

noddyholder Thu 06-Dec-12 15:55:32

If there are offers being considered do you even think you can view it? I would offer 500

luciadilammermoor Thu 06-Dec-12 15:53:18

Largest 5 bed, 3 bath semi on street, in SE, outer edge of London. No other properties are comparable for sold prices in close area. Appears to be in good nick but estate agents being cagey about even booking a viewing as there appears to be some offers being considered, apparently. Noone seems to know or be returning phone calls.

This is all very theoretical but were we to get to see it and there was nothing significantly awful, would sticking to to 499,999 threshold be majorly cheeky or just sensible, given the market.

Yours in a complete fuzzy 'I love this house now I've seen it' state, LdL

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