This house has potential but can I have opinions on wall cracks please?

[MissPollysTrolleyed]

We're interested in this house: House

We haven't done a second viewing so at very early stages but wondering we should steer clear as there is some cracking in an exterior wall which I've shown on a picture on my profile page.

We've budgeted for carrying out some work (full cosmetic overhaul plus knocking through kitchen to conservatory and putting a proper roof on the conservatory) but we have not budgeted for making good structural defects.

[Sausagedog27]

It depends- it might just be cracks in the render- fairly common if it's cement, or it could be something more sinister. You will have to get a full survey to find out for sure.

[MissPollysTrolleyed]

Thanks Sausage. I have now uploaded a photo to my profile page.

I'm not keen to spend ££££ on a survey until I know know a little more about the cracking. Wondering whether we could get a structural engineer to have a look at this issue in isolation before we progress to solicitors, surveys, mortgage applications etc not to mention the small matter of putting our own house on the market.

[Iggly]

Ask the vendors? Technically they're not allowed to lie to you.

Also how old is the house? What kind of soil is it built on? Ours is on London clay which is known to cause movement in houses.

You should also be able to look up on the local council any building reg related/notifiable works to see if anything has been done relating to subsidence.

Can you walk around and see if any other cracks on other properties? Or maybe view other ones nearby? Has it had any extensions or structural changes which could have caused this?

I'm not any kind of expert - just going by what I did for our place.

[Northernlurker]

I can't see on the picture but is the cracking at the join of the wall of the main house and the garage bit? Because of so then it's probably as a result of the extended bit 'pulling' sideways. Our neighbours had this as a result of the MASSIVE extension they'd built at the back - it was pulling the house backwards. However there was no active movement when it was monitored for a year or so and they were able to get it 'tied' together. I would definately do a second viewing and get an engineer's view. It looks like a decent house - too much furniture in there atm! What's with the huge tv in one of the bedrooms?

[MissPollysTrolleyed]

Northern, yes, it's the angled crack running along the window and down to the garage. It looks like it's been filled and painted.

It's been on the market for a long, long time and the price is very good for the size of house and location so that's why I'm thinking there must be something amiss and I think it must structural damage but I am a terrible pessimist.

Meanwhile, yes, they have a lot of furniture! That TV could do with its own bedroom - it's enormous!

Iggly, I don't know about the soil. We live close-by so I guess it will be the same as our soil so I probably need to look at our survey from when we bought. It's on a hill so I don't know whether that might mean the ground is uneven leading to instability. The neighbouring houses all look fine though and are on a similar gradient. I'll definitely have a look on the local authority's register though to see if I can find out anything.

[noddyholder]

I sold a house just round the corner from there last year literally 4 houses away! It has been on the market forever and is so over priced for the location!

[noddyholder]

David and co are lovely though for estate agents!

[MissPollysTrolleyed]

Ooh, I live around the corner so we are former neighbours Noddy . Are you still in the area?

Yes, I agree it's over-priced but I'm hoping they will be open open to offers. There's so little on the market in this neck of the woods at the moment so we're getting a bit desperate.

[MissPollysTrolleyed]

Just re-reading and see that I said in an earlier post that I thought the price was very good and I have contradicted myself in my last post. It's been on the market so long that I'm disregarding the asking price and assuming a price of about £445k instead. I think that would be a good price for a 5-bed house with a half-decent garden in this area - don't you agree? There are plenty of small 3-beds with patio gardens selling in the area for upwards of £350k.

[noddyholder]

It was on with another agent last year and I viewed it with a friend. It needs a lot of work. There is lots of space though but the rooms feel small and chopped up. I sold a 2 bed it sold very quickly on R'son Rd. I am renting atm I didn;t like the road tbh but I have always lived at 5ways/Preston park and couldn't get used to it. Good for the station and my ds spent a few winters going down that hill on a sledge! I think it needs about 50k spent I would think its worth about 400 They must be desperate by now.

[MissPollysTrolleyed]

That's useful info, thanks Noddy. We would really like to live in Preston Park but can't afford a decent-sized house there . Fiveways is too far away as my DH commutes to London and we have complicated nursery drop-off arrangements that mean we need to live no more than a 10 minute walk from the station.

[MissPollysTrolleyed]

By the way, was yours the house with the mezzanine level? If so, can I PM you as I loved what you had done with the kitchen / diner (had a nosey on Rightmove when it was for sale ).

[noddyholder]

Yes it had a mezzanine

[tricot39]

Cracks do not show up too well on photos, so without seeing the direction of the cracks I can't say much more.

However from a look at the main rightmove picture of the front elevation, there is a good chance that the side wall is not terribly well tied in to the main house. Other possibilities include problems with the beam over the garage (?) door, or that the old cartway (now the garage) may have been taller and the infill above the garage door not tied in well or it might just be differential movement between materials.

Settlement of the foundations as mentioned above might be a possibility but I think you would maybe see more deformation of the window openings if it was serious/ongoing. One exception to this would be if the neighbour was digging big holes next to this wall and undermining it so that the movement had started rather recently.

So things to do:

• Ask if they have every had any other surveys/reports done and/or previous repairs carried out in relation to this cracking.
  
• Ask the owners how long the cracks have been there and when they were last painted. Ask how big the cracks were when they were painted/filled and see how big they are now to get an idea of cumulative movement.
  
• Ask if they have ever had to ease doors or windows in that side area over the garage.
  
• Look at the direction of the cracks (and look for more that you didn't see when looking first time) and check whether one end is more open than the other.
  
• Check for visible deformations to windows, doors and plumb of walls both inside and outside of the house.
  
• Look over the boundary fence to see what is going on in the neighbour's garden.
  
• On the upper floors over the garage see if you can see which direction the floor joists go (opposite direction to the line of the floorboards).
  
• Run your hand over the wall and see if the crack indicates movement out of plane of the wall.
  

This will give you lots of information to start to figure out what is moving and in which direction.

Clearly this comes with a huge health warning that I haven't inspected the house....... but I would put my money on the first floor joists running parallel to the wall so that the flank is not adequately restrained. This can be tied in relatively simply and cheaply. If (after looking) you call Cintec UK they will give you the name of their local rep, who will give you a list of local approved installers. Assuming you can get works access into the neighbour's garden (not always easy) it could be sorted in a day and leave very little sign of repair. We organised this at (now) DH's old flat. It involved lifting a few floorboards and cost £600 to have the ties installed. There is also an "old school" detail which you can use (the big circular plates on flanks walls that you may have seen) doesn't rely on resin fixings, but that costs a lot more and is more disruptive.

Feel free to post the results of your survey here if you want more info.

[MissPollysTrolleyed]

Gosh, thank you Tricot for such a helpful and comprehensive response. I quizzed the agent generally but he was very non-committal so I will ask the sellers to attend the viewing and ask these more specific questions of them.

Am I right in thinking that we should get a structural engineer to look at this issue in isolation before going any further or would a surveyor be able to confirm the cause and cost of remediation equally well?

[tricot39]

if after your second viewing you would be interested in the house and could agree a price with the vendor you would presumably get a survey done. you can specifically ask them to comment on the cracking. the surveyor might be able to deal with it and you will save the engineer's fee. if you go for the engineer first you will still need the surveyor to proceed - although i suppose if it's an engineering nightmare you might decide not to proceed. so maybe it is 6 of one and half a dozen of another!
good luck.

[noddyholder]

Are you going to buy this house as well as your current home?

[MissPollysTrolleyed]

No Noddy, we are about to appoint a builder for our intended works to our house but costs are really escalating so we are exhausting the other possibilities before appointing him.

I've now been to see the house with cracking again and decided against it as there are lots more cracks on the inside and outside than we'd first noticed and the tall pier of the neighbour's garden wall has just come crashing down into his basement - may be unrelated but I have a bad feeling about this house and really could do without the stress just now so I'm going to give it a skip. From what the agents say, it sounds like the sellers are in no hurry to move and are just going to wait until the right offer comes along so I don't think they would be accepting any knock-down offers anyway....which suggests that they don't think there's anything sinister going on with the cracking.

Thanks for all the advice Tricot.