Builder woes

[Springsister]

Architect is managing job and is off on holiday soon for a month. We got planning permission in jan and since then progress has been so slow we were aiming to get contracts sorted by next week to start august but doesn't look like it will happen now.

We put job out to tender in may and finally had meeting with the builder with the best quote on monday. All ready to do contracts today when he emails saying he forgot to Include demolition fee which will increase cost by £10k!!! Arrggghhh. They all seem to have included some stuff and left out others. It feels like its impossible to get a builder to quote for the full job.

Does it have to be this difficult? How can we get things moving? Any advice would be welcome.

[PigletJohn]

he's obviously a very competent and efficient builder with good planning ability, he's shown himself worthy of your confidence. Go ahead with him.

[LadySybildeChocolate]

Run, run for the hills then find someone else. He's hardly a professional if he's doing this before he's even started. You're running the risk of hiring a cowboy builder here, pet.

[Deux]

Did you give some kind of Schedule of Works that outlines exactly what needs to be done. Eg, Part 1 - Demolition and Stripping Out etc?

If so, and the builder has just ignored this then I'd say it doesn't bode well. Better to start your project later with a good builder.

What is your architect doing? What is his role? Sack your architect and employ a Project Manager?

[Springsister]

Thanks.

The architect has done plans and guided us through the process of getting relevant ermissions etc. He is very good, thorough but just. So. Slow.

I think you are right. If he is pudding around like this now it don't bode well. He's come back offering a discount now! We are meeting another builder next week.

Any tips on what we ensure is on contract?

[Springsister]

Pissing not pudding

[LadySybildeChocolate]

I'd worry if they were suddenly availiable, good builders are usually booked up for a while. Ask for references so that you can see their completed work, ask for a work schedule. Don't pay upfront and don't pay in cash.

[Springsister]

They are not available for a month. They are v busy which is probably why he messed up the quote.

He has done small jobs for us before and we were happy.

I think you are right about being wary though, esp as he wanted a deposit which arch v unhappy about.

The other company seems more professional Do these fmb memberships etc mean.much in reality

[Fizzylemonade]

Run for the hills I had an excellent builder but I found him because he had done work for 4 people I knew and I inspected his work on 3 completed jobs and watched one take place.

He turned up every day at 8.30 (went to builders merchants before he went to site) and cleaned up at the end of every day. That is why I hired him.

I paid him instalments at the end of every week, he did the work, I paid him for that work. I would never hire any builder where I hadn't seen his previous work. Almost 2 years down the line I am still happy with the double garage conversion he did for me. I don't even have any snagging!

Sadly he had retired and when I come to have my kitchen extended next year I will ask for recommendations from people who are about to have work done over the summer holidays. I will inspect their builder's work if recommended.

To be £10k out from your quote is HUGE. Are you coming across as desperate to have the work done? Don't be, they can take advantage of that.

Some builders will quote low and then come across "problems" or "unforseen" costs my builder actually came in under budget for another small job he did for me and took less money, yes, I know, he is an angel. There are some great builders out there but they will be booked up.

With mine, my build was a 3 week job in total so he could squeeze me between jobs (I knew the person having their build done after me) but I still had to wait 3 months for him to be free.

[Fizzylemonade]

From the Homebuilding and Renovating Mag July 2012, "dealing with builders"

Builders will listen out for mistakes to assess your innocence
Get a schedule of quantities and prices for your job
Know the difference between a quotation and an estimate
Provisional sums and Prime cost sums (provisional are when your builder doesn't have every detail like lighting circuits or choice of flooring, Prime costs relate to specifically named materials or labour)

Also in a previous issue they say NEVER pay up front for anything, builders merchants give credit to good builders so they don't have to pay for stuff up front. If a builder is laying out for a boiler and asks for the money it is much better to buy it yourself rather than hand over the money.

[Springsister]

Met the other builders tonight. They seemed reasonable. We would pay them 95 per cent increments fortnightly and only after architect inspects each stage.

Their contract price includes everything and was in line with previous builder before increase. Architect phoned references and they were excellent.

Should I go and see work before signing, I'm not sure I would know what I was looking for.

[Springsister]

Thanks for your advice so far. Very helpful.

[JobCarHouseNoBaby]

Go and see previous work - if it looks up to how you would like your project to look, fine. Everyone has different standards as to what is acceptable - one persons fantastic is another's meh

I'm a project manager although for much larger scale projects. My top tips:

Pester the architect a lot - they will have many other projects on the go, you won't be at the top of the list unless you make yourself

Be clear who is the client (you?), who is the pm (architect?) and the contractor. This will become important if any changes to plans come up. The pm should act as liaison between you and the contractor on changes to plan and budget

At the end of the project go round with the contractor and do a snag list - chipped woodwork, cracks in plaster etc - they should fix them for you.

Ask your architect about form of contract - some minor building contracts allow you to keep a retainer of say 5-10% of the contract sum back for a year - you only pay it after a year and if there are no issues with the build

Good luck !

[Springsister]

Thanks jchnb

Good advice. I think you are right About us pestering architect more. From now on we will be more demanding I think.

Yes they agreed we will keep back 5 per cent until build end and snagging been done

I'm liking them more and more the more advice I get!