Roof leaking in extension of house we just bought. Anything we can do?

[Murtette]

We bought a house a few months. A first floor extension over the garage had been done about 3 years ago. We had a lot of rain a few days ago and water started coming into this bedroom at the join between the ceiling and the wall.
One local roofer turned up & said he knew the property well having replaced the "sodden" ceiling after the snow this winter (so just before the vendors put it on the market) and that the problem was that the roof was tiled but, due to it being so flat, should have been treated as a flat roof. We got a second roofer around who also said that the only solutions will be to change the pitch of the roof or take the tiles off & treat it as a flat roof, both of which would require planning permission and cost around £4k. The second chap measured the angle of the roof & it doesn't comply with regulations for using tiles.
I'm really annoyed as one of the huge pros of this house was that nothing needed doing - no knocking down walls, changing the kitchen or bathroom etc. All we had to do was paint & lay new carpets.
Is there anything we can do? We had a full building survey & it wasn't mentioned in that. The council only signed off on the work in the spring of this year (during the sale & purchase process) but have told me its not in their remit to check that an extension is watertight. Obviously there were an architect & builder involved in the work but I don't know who they are.
Any suggestions or advice? We don't have the money to do the work but its only going to get worse, especially if it snows this winter as, apparently, only some of the snow & melt water will run off down to the gutters, the rest will run into the roof void.
Thanks

[lalalonglegs]

Go back to your surveyor and check why it wasn't flagged - to be honest, tiles on a very low-pitch roof is quite an obvious problem.

[mylovelymonster]

If the work was not done according to building regs then I would have thought either the council building inspector/district surveyor or your surveyor ought to have noticed? Best get some feedback from both as to how the work was done, how it was checked, and whether the relevant specific areas were covered in you survey before purchase. Might give you an indication where any error might lie and if you have any claim.

[Becaroooo]

Go back to both the surveyor and the local council.....the council inspector has signed off on a building that didnt comply with building regs and it should also have been flagged up in the surveyors report!!!

Also, why dont you have the info on the builder/company that did the work....warranties/guarantees etc?? Your solicitors should have got those from the vendors?

Good luck

[Murtette]

Thanks for your thoughts. I have spoken to the surveyors & they are sending the senior surveyor around next week. The council won't speak to me but just say that my complaint has to be sent to them in writing which is frustrating as I'm not sure if they should have checked this or not (when I did originally speak to them, they told me it wasn't in their remit).

Becaroo - interesting point about warranties, guarantees etc. We don't have any of that...

[Becaroooo]

Really???? Then you should be getting onto your solicitors too!!!

Re: Council...if their building inspector came round and signed this extention off which 2 buildres have told you does not conform to Building regs then how can that not be in their remit???

You need to be really pro-active on this as it will be winter soon!!

Good luck

[minipie]

Any warranties and guarantees from the builders/architects will be personal to the vendors, the benefit of them does not pass to an incoming purchaser.

I think your best bet is your surveyor.

[minipie]

^^ should say, there are some exceptions to this (eg guarantees on damp proofing courses can sometimes be passed on to incoming purchasers) but usually builders only owe duties to the people who paid them.

[sixtiesqueen]

I didn't know that. I sold a house in January that we had extended. I passed on absolutely everything connected with the extension, from planning permissions to plans, to guarantees and receipts. I'm sure they guarantee the build for 10 years - their solicitor wanted all the paperwork.

[Becaroooo]

I sold in August and we passed on everything related to the extention, even all the old stuff from the previous tennants that had expired (damp proofing etc)

Really poor if your solicitors didnt insist on all that from the vendor!

[Pendeen]

The Architect's liability will be to their client. The builder's liability will be to their customer. In both cases - the vendor.

The council's liability is slightly more confused in that they have a general duty of care to "the public" to ensure building work conforms with building regulations (in this case Approved Document 'C') however it is rare for a local authority to admit liability especially to a third party such as youself.

If it were me in this situation I would see the surveyor who undertook the full building survey as being responsible. It is fairly obvious is a tiled rood has been constructed with a pitch that is too shallow.

As an aside, I am suprised that water is getting in to the loft space in such quantities. There should be a layer of felt under the tiles which should prevent much of the water.

[Murtette]

Thank you. It never occurred to me to ask for details about the extension. As we'd been told it had buildings reg sign off, I just presumed all was well. I was obviously a bit naive.

Do any of you know if getting building regs sign off includes checking that the tiles comply with the minimum requirements regarding those tiles? I presumed it would but when I spoke to the council, I asked that question and they said that that was not a concern of theirs. I was surprised but accepted it as I didn't think they would actually lie to me...

Pendeen - that's a good point about the roof felt. Hmmm. I will ask the roofer to take a look at that.

In the meantime, I'll get on with contacting the surveyor.

[Pendeen]

Re Building regs sign off.

On my drawings, I would specify something along the lines - "Roof tiles shall be Marley Double Roman Interlocking Roof tiles complete with all necessary eaves, verge, ridge, valley and hip tiles including fixints, trims and the like all fixed in accordance with the manufacurer's fixing guide and instructions and BS8000-6." My drawing would also list details for the timbers, underslating felt and so on.

It is this sort of drawing that would be submitted for approval and that is usually sufficient to obtain approval.

Generally, Building Control Officers do not have the time to sit and read all the specifications and manufacturer's instructions, British Standards, Codes of Practice etc. for all the many building products and processes used in construction. All they usually can manage is site visit at several stages of construction and if the work generally seems in accordance with the approved drawings then that is all they can be reasonably expected to do.

This is why on any project I always recommend to a client that they employ me to "administer" the contract which includes checking on progress, workmanship and use of materials, for which of course there is a fee.

If a client - usually a house owner - does not wish to use this service then they are really on their own and have to accept they are responsible for ensuring the work complies with the design.

Having said all this, I would always check my design for the roof pitch against the the manufacturer's recommendations, British Standards (e.g. in this case BS5334) and so on. It's possible that the previous owner did not employ an Architect at all, but instead used one of many differing sorts of "consultant" claiming to be able to design buildings (but cannot).

[TheTamingOfTheShrew]

Sorry to jump in on this thread but was wondering if the lady whose dh is a roofer was around...I need to ask about roof tiles.

[SoozleQ]

What about any guttering? We had a massive leak in our kitchen due to rubbish guttering allowing rain water to run down the outside walls, get in the brickwork and then come in the house when it hit a window frame. We're having an extension built at the moment and old kitchen ripped out. When they took the plaster off the wall round the window it was obvious that it had been a problem for a while. The gutters have been replaced now and so far things seem to still be dry.