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Nice house, lovely garden - but council owns garden! WWYD?

21 replies

ReshapeWhileDamp · 15/08/2010 07:42

I need advice and input and insight and other things beginning with 'in', please. Grin

We are now looking through our pot of 'second choice' houses since the house we loved and wanted has been spirited away from us by a particularly dastardly vendor/gazumper combo.

There's this house that we liked, but...

As you can see (can you? is link working?) it's been done up very nicely (black paint work and radiators not to my taste but hardly deal-breaker) by the builder who lives there. He's installed a lot of 'character' back into a 1920's house that was a shell when he bought it. So he's added 19thC pine floorboards downstairs (all screwed in, not a creaky one in sight), installed reclaimed cast iron fireplaces everywhere he can (not over-keen on all of these - toddler-head-smashers - but they look nice) and beautiful, heavyweight reclaimed doors. House in excellent decorative order, as those slimy bastids who work at EAs like to say. Grin

We like it - enough rooms, nice features, excellent refitted and large kitchen, huge expansive gardens...

Ah yes. The gardens. This semi has its own back garden, which the vendor has bricked over and done something a bit twee with a pergola, etc. All un-doable. There are further lawned and bedded areas behind that - it's an L-shaped arrangement and the green space behind the house took our breath away. Loads of room for kids' dens, a veg patch, greenhouses, sheds, playhouse, swing, whatever. He even has a chicken run out there.

BUT: all this green space beyond his bricked-up, pergola area is rented from the Council. He pays a peppercorn rent of £10 for half of it, and a further £10 for the other half, which his next-door neighbour didn't want. The Council basically owns a strip of land behind these houses (all of which used to be council houses and two or three of which, still are) and most people don't take on the option of renting extra garden space because of the upkeep. Apparently, people who own this particular house have rented this land as garden space for the last 45 years.

An additional anomally is that his garage, which is in the back garden at the end of the bricked-up part, is partly on the house's land, and partly on the Council's land. Confused The house has been bought and sold twice since the 80's, when garage was built, so does this mean it's 'ok'? Seems very fishy to me. We'd want to convert garage into office for DH and utility space, so it would make a difference to us if someone came along and asked us to tear it down.

One of our main reasons for being very interested is all the garden space. It backs onto a strip of woodland that's owned by the local council for the benefit of the village, which is nice also. House is on a mian road (30 mph though) which is a big down-side for me, and there are also rumours of a by-pass from the local town being built across this main road at some point in next 10-15 years. Hmm We are told it's v. unlikely to happen in next 5, certainly. This is not our forever house - we envisage being in it for next 3-5 years (until DH gets a job in another part of the country, basically).

What would you do? Would the fact that the Council own all the lovely green parts of the garden put you off buying? (I suppose there's a chance they could claim the land back - despite what the EA says, there is enough room to build a strip of houses there, and they own the land and access at the back, too.)

Am seriously confused, and aware my judgement is clouded because I'm 21 wks pregnant and would dearly love to be settled somewhere before the baby arrives! Grin

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ZakuroFujiwara · 15/08/2010 07:51

Rationally I'm sure it is unlikely that there would be a problem but I think it would be too much uncertainty for me - particularly given your reliance on the garage as proper usable space.

How does the price compare? Is the risk priced in? Or are they saying it isn't a risk?

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ReshapeWhileDamp · 15/08/2010 08:07

If we lost all the green garden space (this is 2/3 of the overall garden space, leaving us with the bricked-over part) the property wouldn't be anywhere near as attractive. Which of couse is a downside in terms of selling it on - the council-owned gardens aren't part of the house and therefore don't reflect on the market price, only on the perceived value of the place.

The price is ok - I think, with the work done on it, it's quite good really. But the main road and funny garden situation might explain the 'reasonable' price. It's not cheap as chips, certainly.

EA and vendor are saying it's not a risk, that this house has rented this garden land for 45 years and the garage isn't a problem or it would have come up in recent sales of the house. (Still not sure about that - a solicitor would throw up their hands, I'm sure.) They are also saying that the threatened bypass won't happen for ages, if at all. (I can't find anything out that says it will go ahead soon, certainly.)

Hmmm. So many unknowns!

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ZakuroFujiwara · 15/08/2010 08:15

Difficult.

I should point out that we completed on our house sale in May and still haven't found anywhere to buy because there is nothing on the market here - so I definitely understand the wanting to get settled thing! Been there, got the t-shirt for that currently!

For me the combination of factors would be a no-no. I think this would be a difficult re-sale and, given it wouldn't be your forever house, I would walk away...

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ruddynorah · 15/08/2010 08:33

I'd go for it.3 to 5 years isn't long anyway. They probably couldn't plan and get started on a by pass in that time.

Why is the bricked bit undoable? If you really wanted to surely it could be dug up. My parents have just done theirs. Everywhere was concrete and flags, they now have a stream, pond, flower beds, veg patch, several sheds etc etc..

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noddyholder · 15/08/2010 08:42

The council could decide to build on/utilise it at anytime so for that reason I would be wary.Also you are paying for a lot of features which you aren't that keen on and undoing them will cost eg the fireplaces are more suited to a victorian house not an ex council one and the brick pergola probably cost a fortune and will end up in a skip.If you are up for this level of work maybe you should find somewhere cheaper and DIY!!!!!Having said that I am in the middle of a major renovation atm and that house looks like a lovely clean easy life Grin!

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MrsSnaplegs · 15/08/2010 08:43

Reshape Is there any option for you to buy that land off the council? Also the bricked over bit isn't undoable just hard work to change!

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MissAnneElk · 15/08/2010 08:47

The bit that would worry me about what you have said is that there is enough land to build a strip of houses.

Re the garage being built on the council land. You can approach the council and ask if you would need planning permission to change the garage to work space and explain the land situation. They will discuss planning with you even although it's not your house.

Personally, I'd probably not buy it. I think what you have described will affect the saleability of the house and if I knew I was going to resell in a few years time I wouldn't be keen.

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IMoveTheStars · 15/08/2010 08:51

I'm interested in the bypass bit of your OP, my parents live very near there and I hadn't heard anything about it, so that's positive I suppose.

Do you know the area well?

I would ask the council if you could buy the land from them..

It seems expensive to me actually, esp for that main road.

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ReshapeWhileDamp · 15/08/2010 09:12

Sorry, I should have phrased it better about the bricked part of the garden. When I said 'undoable' I meant, the bricked part would be easy to undo! Grin It would be some heavy work but we could easily get rid of the bricks and grass it over. The pergola isn't bricked, it's a wrought-iron affair and a bit naff. I can think of something I'd prefer built on the patio, anyway. (A permanent barbeque? A bread/pizza oven?)

MissAnneElk - I think there might be enough land to build a strip of houses, but most of the houses on this strip are now privately owned and would kick up a fuss. Plus, funding is currently tight for such things, and the nearby town of Didcot is about to undergo massive expansion (hence threatened bypass) so not sure the council would bother with expanding in this village. And yes, the thing that is bothering me most is that we might not be able to sell it on in a few years, if DH gets a job out of the area and we have to move in a hurry. Sad

Jareth - hmm, interesting. There was a lot of chatter on the West and East Hagbourne village forums (online, I mean) from about 2005 about this Didcot South Bypass (it's part of the Great Western Park Didcot expansion plans) but nothing in the last couple of years, which makes me think it's been shelved for the moment. I haven't contacted the council yet but have waded through the online planning docs and can't actually find this wretched bypass. So it might all be heresay!

I think I need to ring the council tomorrow and see what the situation re. garage, buying the land, etc is. (I wonder how much it would be to buy it - it is the end of the strip, which might be good, but surely plots of land don't come cheap?)

Interested to know that you think it's expensive for that road. Is that because most of those houses on New Road are ex-council or still council, or more because it's just a main road, almost part of Didcot, etc? The houses in the old centre of East Hagbourne are certainly a lot more, but then you're paying more for the village ambiance. Grin

We know the area a little bit - live just east of Wallingford currently, have friends who have lived in East Hagbourne, Aston Tirrold, etc.

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MissAnneElk · 15/08/2010 09:37

I think it's unlikely that the council would want to use the land for building but they might be interested in selling the land to a private developer. There is a (very small) strip of land near me which was council owned. They sold it to a developer and they have built two blocks of flats on it. Councils might have to look at what assets they can sell given the cut backs at the moment.

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MissAnneElk · 15/08/2010 09:49

Just to add that the people directly affected by the building are all home owners and I'd be amazed if they hadn't objected.

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lalalonglegs · 15/08/2010 09:51

We are having horrendous dispute about garden that the council owns (basically fenced it off with no warning even though it is demised to us on lease), it's costing thousands to fight it Sad - on that basis I would never buy the house that you are interested in.

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ReshapeWhileDamp · 15/08/2010 09:51

Good point - hadn't thought about possibility of selling the land privately. Sad

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IMoveTheStars · 15/08/2010 10:11

Ah, OK reshape. We did find that when we were going through the purchase of our house the solicitor told us about any proposed new roads near us (there is one that people have been trying to push through for years, not happened yet though :) )

thanks, I'll ask the parental units and see if they've heard anything.

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trixymalixy · 15/08/2010 10:50

I'd avoid it like the plague. Too many ifs.

If the land was privately owned there might have been a chance you could fight any planning permission on it, but as it's council owned you would be on a hiding to nothing fighting planning on it.

I also wouldn't buy somewhere with the assumption that you would be moving on as things change and you might get stuck there.

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IMoveTheStars · 15/08/2010 11:20

Reshape Have you seen this map of the proposals? I had no idea!

www.whitehorsedc.gov.uk/Images/Microsoft%20Photo%20Editor%20-%20didcot%20v1_tcm4-4356.pdf

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ReshapeWhileDamp · 15/08/2010 13:10

Jareth - yup! There are other maps that show the whole of Didcot with other potential and possible areas of expansion (north-east of the Ladygrove Estate, for instance, across the ringroad), but this is the area of definite expansion. They've already started building a road off the roundabout between Didcot and Harwell to serve the new areas of housing. People in West Hagbourne are particularly Hmm about it, because it's pretty much going to join onto that village.

Anything else your parents might have heard about a south bypass, I'd be very grateful to hear! Smile

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IMoveTheStars · 15/08/2010 15:18

!!!

Any other maps you could link me to would be great (sorry for the hijack!!)

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Orangerie · 15/08/2010 15:23

Too many ifs, too little time, if they decide to build the by pass, your house may become unsaleable in a few years time. You may loose a lot of money.

I would go for another one, easier than uproot everyone in a few years time.

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ISNT · 15/08/2010 15:30

Is the price of the house the price you would expect to pay for a house with teh bricked bit, or is it teh price you'd expect to pay including all teh green?

Have you seen the agreement on renting the additional land? What does that say about who can do what and when?

It sounds like a PITA to me TBH.

A house at the top of the road randomly has their drive owned by the council and apparently he's been trying to buy it for years. At the moment he has council vans parking there all teh time whenever they want to work on teh flats next door and storing bags of concrete on it and stuff. Must drive him up the wall.

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ReshapeWhileDamp · 15/08/2010 22:16

Hmm. I'm sensing a consensus. Grin This is all very helpful though, having disinterested opinions.

jareth, if you go here you should, theoretically, be able to search for the Great Western Park project, but for the life of me, I can't work out where it is! I also found this on the West Hagbourne village website, dated 2005, when there was a lot of online chatter about this. It has links. If I can find any other maps again, I'll send you in their direction!

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