Parent friendly summary Objectives KS1/ 2 Maths curriculum

(62 Posts)
PastSellByDate Thu 12-Jun-14 12:42:01

Hello there:

I've stumbled across this today - found it useful/ clear summary of what your child should be taught/ able to do by year and rather wish I'd been aware of this way back when DD1 was starting Year 1 (DD1 now Y6).

michaelt1979.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/maths-key-objectives1.pdf

I hope this link will be of help to you

PSBD

QuiteQuietly Thu 12-Jun-14 12:54:51

I have been looking for something like this for some time. Thanks!

diamondage Thu 12-Jun-14 18:06:35

thanks Past, this is great!

mrz Thu 12-Jun-14 18:42:19

It wasn't around when your child was in Y1 because it is the new curriculum from September 2014

mrz Thu 12-Jun-14 18:45:28
HeisenbergsHat Thu 12-Jun-14 19:00:49

That's brilliant Past thank you thanks

PastSellByDate Fri 13-Jun-14 09:53:14

Sorry mrz - I mean a simple sheet of A4 telling me by bullet point what should be covered/ mastered in maths for that school year - not the contents (although in fact they aren't hugely different).

I concede that other schools/ LEAs might have these resources - but having asked for them for 5 years now - and given up in despair and recently seen a few posts asking for this kind of thing I thought it might help to circulate it.

But I can see how weaker teachers might not appreciate clued up parents. I really can.

BuildYourOwnSnowman Fri 13-Jun-14 14:20:14

I was just looking for this yesterday - trying to figure out when they do long multiplication!

Thank you!!

mrz Fri 13-Jun-14 17:16:00

It's always been freely available to clued up parents on the DfE site PSBD

PastSellByDate Mon 16-Jun-14 11:13:48

Actually mrz - although I may have missed it - I was looking for the last 5 years.

My solutions have been campaign for real educations maths curriculum notes: www.cre.org.uk/docs/primary_maths_curriculum.pdf - useful/ but long-winded/ very little about what happens in Y6/ ideal world stuff - our school wasn't doing a lot of this.

Someone posted sort of APP style I can do statements from Lancashire (?I think) - which I had been using - in response to this very question which has repeatedly appeared.

These very definitely do not appear on the DofE website. Programmes of study for the new curriculum (in full) of course do: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-curriculum-in-england-mathematics-programmes-of-study

It has been my personal experience that parent friendly resources to explain what the national curriculum is and what your child should be doing when have never been terribly easy to track down.

I kind of presume that is the objective from both government and teachers. Heaven forbid you have informed parents that can be armed with clear facts on what should be being delivered in a school - why that would put much too much pressure on these highly trained professionals we call 'teachers'.

PastSellByDate Mon 16-Jun-14 11:31:51

This is all I can find for those children (so current Y2/ Y6) working to old national curriculum: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/286343/Primary_maths_curriculum_to_July_2015_RS.pdf

which is what I've been seeing on the DofE website for maths for a few years now - and very definitely avoids any sort of statement about when children might be learning these things (thus St. Mediocre endlessly telling parents 'Oh they'll learn that next year' - and I include multiplication facts in that right up to Year 6).

Now I'm ancient and very old fashioned - thus my username choice....

But I presume all teachers have been to University - they have received a course syllabus for each lecture course they take - that will set out: what will be covered - title & summary of each lecture/ reading for each lecture/ explanation of what skills they will acquire as a result of the course & indeed a description of how they will be assessed.

Now if school teacher's average salary is in line with a University lecturers (and at St. Mediocre average pay is £39K a year - more than a starting Uni lecturer) - I do rather feel annoyed that they are not capable of explaining coherently to me what my child will be learning each term - beyond short titles or indeed the atrocious curriculum summaries - which say absolutely nothing in detail: (e.g. from St. Mediocre's own website - link to purchased Y6 curriculum: web.educationlincs.ftpuk.net/_site_images/cu_1742/1325609_l.pdf) - this by the way was put up with great fanfare after years of parental complaint that we don't understand what our children are doing in school. Am I alone in feeling this 'ticks that box' but achieves very little clarity?

Many parents are working with only this level of information mrz - and I'm sorry - it quite simply isn't fair on us or our children. We have to 'trust' that a school is covering what they should be/ is doing enough with our child - and find out way too late in the day that simply isn't happening - I refer you back to the catch-up discussion on MN Primary Talk: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/2105702-They-all-catch-up

Toomanyhouseguests Mon 16-Jun-14 11:47:38

It's a useful link, thanks for the heads up, PSBD!

RolloRollo Mon 16-Jun-14 14:14:31

I would be wary of this - the curriculum doesn't distinguish when exactly topics should be taught always e.g. sometimes it says things should be taught in year 5 or 6. Schools then determine exactly when they will teach what.

Nonemoreblack Mon 16-Jun-14 18:30:51

past if your conversations with teachers bear any resemblance to your tone in this thread then I don't really blame them for steering well clear of you. FWIW I have been teaching for 14 years in 3 different schools and all of them have provided clear and detailed curriculum information. Enjoy your conspiracy theories!

IsItFridayYetPlease Mon 16-Jun-14 19:31:29

The difference between a university curriculum and a primary curriculum is that with a university course you get "this is what is covered, learn it or don't" so not much differentiation, no notion of personalised learning. The reason primary teachers can't tell you in the depth you want what will be covered each term is we adapt according to the needs of the child, as assessed on a lesson by lesson basis. If I say on my weekly newsletter next week we will be covering time in maths I will have some knowledge of where each child is starting the week so plan o'clock for some, half past for others and quarter past for another group, with maybe a couple of children on quarter to. By the end of Monday's lesson I will have noted that X has no concept of time and will probably need o'clock work all week still to fully embed that concept before we even start to think about half past, Y has romped through quarter past and easily absorbed the extension of quarter to work, so I can extend the following day... etc. I can't just say it is the summer term so everyone will learn quarter to. There is a huge difference between teaching something (e.g. quarter past) and children being provided with the next steps of learning, at which ever pace is appropriate for them.

Toomanyhouseguests Mon 16-Jun-14 19:40:32

That's a good point, IsItFridayYetPlease. I think personalised learning probably confuses a lot of parents. I know it did me with dd1, lol! As a kid, what we learned was the same, our achievement was the only thing differentiated. Now the input is differentiated rather than just the output. It's confusing, if you don't understand that it is going on.

The friction lies with parents who think their children should be "pushed more" and teachers who feel a child is working to their best ability already.

BuildYourOwnSnowman Mon 16-Jun-14 20:18:01

I think the list is useful as a general rule and to check things you may not want to discuss with the teacher, for example

My 7 year old came home having done 3 digit addition and subtraction (in columns) and asked if there was a way of doing the same for multiplication and division. I didn't really want to go there in too much detail but was interested to know at what stage they start. It seems to be quite far off so no point confusing him now!

mrz Mon 16-Jun-14 20:21:32

My 7 year old came home having done 3 digit addition and subtraction (in columns) and asked if there was a way of doing the same for multiplication and division. I didn't really want to go there in too much detail but was interested to know at what stage they start. It seems to be quite far off so no point confusing him now!

However, if the teacher thought your son was ready to do 3 digit multiplication and division now it wouldn't be far off so the list would be misleading.

BuildYourOwnSnowman Mon 16-Jun-14 20:27:30

I understand that but as his parent I am happy for his teacher to make that decision. If it said it was a form 2 topic I would have felt more comfortable showing him what it involved etc

I don't want to be showing him things that he isn't anywhere near ready for and the list is quite a good guide to the order these things are taught

mrz Mon 16-Jun-14 20:34:43

I think you've just demonstrated why teachers don't give parents these lists

PastSellByDate Tue 17-Jun-14 11:10:18

Nomoreblack/ IsitFriday:

Look - don't get me wrong - some of my best friends are teachers/ my brother & s-i-l are primary teachers - but....

I do not kid - the link to curriculum is all we get.

We don't get the weekly newsletter IsitFriday which even tells us they're learning to tell time this week. Indeed DD2 was never taught how to read an analogue clock (I've had to do it at home - she's Y4 by the way).

I fear it's a case of responsible teachers are aware of the curriculum, roll it out well (possibly via LEA guided curriculum/ possibly via purchased curriculum) and signal well to pupils/ parents what they will be doing ....

but....

that isn't every school.

I don't expect that by Friday 3 p.m. my child will have mastered long division - but equally I don't think it unreasonable that parents might understand notionally when a pupil at that school should have mastered that skill: Y4? Y5? Y6?

It is the fact that teacher's hide behind the 'each child develops at their own speed' a little too long that results in children going up to Y7 without multiplication/ division skills.

I really do think parents need milestones - not to make a child feel they're a failure - but to make it clear that not knowing your times tables by age 11 is rather a problem, and really it's preferable they know them by ages 9/ 10 at the latest.

I don't think that's unreasonable - and to have been fighting for that kind of signposting from DD1's primary for 7 years is ridiculous.

Retropear Tue 17-Jun-14 11:16:53

Fantastic PSD

Why oh why don't we as parents get given info like this?

My dd is in y4 bit worried as she'll be tested on the new curriculum and don't think they've covered it all.Will they add the stuff not covered this year when they start the new curriculum next year?

proudmama2772 Tue 17-Jun-14 14:21:09

PastSellbyDate

Your post expresses the same frustration many parents feel, including myself. Some primary schools release a termly curriculum document. Usually a few pages. It is somewhat helpful - but in my opinion generally vague and high level.

I want to see the detail. The test/assessment, the worksheet, the problems my child will be expected to solve. My ds just started a new school and I was given a detailed breakdown of high frequency words she could read AND spell. I was also told specificially the phonics sounds she still had not mastered and given cards to work with her. I was given some examples of her maths and said they would provide more detail when they had more time to assess her. She had only been there a week.

I was so pleased to be given such detailed information and to feel like the school was engaging with me rather than giving me brief summary. I know exactly what to help her with at home to support her teacher in his current weekly objectives for her.

mrz Tue 17-Jun-14 17:29:02

I would want accurate information that applies to my child not some notional list. In my Y1 class I have two children who are working on parts the curriculum and over half working on the Y2 ... how helpful would it be to their parents?

Retropear Tue 17-Jun-14 17:48:19

I'd like both.

Info re your child is pretty meaningless without the other.

mrz Tue 17-Jun-14 17:58:35

So you would find it useful for me to tell you that the class are adding and subtracting 1 - digit and 2 - digit numbers to 20, including zero even though your child is adding and subtracting fractions with different denominators and mixed numbers this week?

diamondage Tue 17-Jun-14 18:42:09

mrz surely the point is that the information is particularly helpful if a child is behind - a parent doesn't need to consider providing extra support if their child is ahead, they only need to know their DC are making the appropriate progress, even if this isn't entirely linear on a year by year basis.

Whilst I have had no problem finding detailed information regarding the current (soon to be old) curriculum in the form of APP grids, it's not necessarily what everyone might call "parent friendly".

The new curriculum has clear expectations of what is to be taught each year and it will be interesting to see how the language changes on here. I predict that no longer will parents say my child is working at Level X, instead they will say my year 3 child is still working though the year 1 curriculum, or my year 1 child is working 3 years ahead and has nearly finished all of the year 4 maths curriculum.

It won't change because a significant proportion of the human population to want to measure everything and categorise it. Parents particularly want to know how their children are coping with school and not all people trust professionals and not all professionals deserve our trust.

mrz Tue 17-Jun-14 18:48:32

How helpful is it for me to tell you your child is working onidentifying "one more" and "one less" but the class are working on simultaneous equations?

Retropear Tue 17-Jun-14 18:58:43

Er yes why on earth wouldn't I?confused

In a comprehensive list like the one in the op would be very useful.You can see where they've come from,where they're going and any gaps.You can also ask questions if there are concerns.

I'm amazed at how schools want support from parents but want to give out as minimal info as poss.The more info you have,the more you can support.

mrz Tue 17-Jun-14 19:04:28

Really ? There is approx 8 years gap between what "your child" can do and what the rest of the class are learning ... I would want to know how I could help my child master what they need and what will be the next step for "my child"

Retropear Tue 17-Jun-14 19:09:04

Well that's you,not me.

I'd like to also have a comprehensive list of what is/has and will be covered.I don't like being in the dark and if school want my support I like to have as much info as possible.

So not seeing why this would be an issue.

mrz Tue 17-Jun-14 19:11:26

but your child won't be covering it ... at least not in the foreseeable future ...perhaps in EIGHT years time when chances are there will be a brand new curriculum to follow

Retropear Tue 17-Jun-14 19:13:01

It is very useful to see national expectations and where/how your child fits in.

mrz Tue 17-Jun-14 19:14:51

Perhaps it's just me ... all I care about is how to help my child progress

Retropear Tue 17-Jun-14 19:16:13

Says you.

My child was written off last year re maths.Prior to the nice supportive and informative teachers she has this year I had to rely on my own research and work with her from it.Said list would have saved me a lot of hassle and is more detailed/ accurate/ up to date.

Thanks to the work I researched and did and the teachers she's had this year my dd is now flying.

mrz Tue 17-Jun-14 19:17:10

Says the mother of a son with SEN

Retropear Tue 17-Jun-14 19:21:26

We all have different circumstances and children but all should have the same info. With holding info for the maj for a few isn't on.

mrz Tue 17-Jun-14 19:29:58

I don't want to know what my child CAN'T do only what they can do and what they need to do next.

Retropear Tue 17-Jun-14 19:33:07

Well that's you.You don't speak for all parents.

mrz Tue 17-Jun-14 19:38:20

I did say it was me ... but I can also speak for the hundreds of parents I have worked with as a SENCO who overwhelmingly don't want to be told what their child can't do.

diamondage Tue 17-Jun-14 19:45:41

This is semantics surely, what children need to do next is something they can't already do?

mrz Tue 17-Jun-14 19:49:15

You seem to spectacularly missing the point that national expactations may be totally beyond the child's current ability so next step needs to be achieveable not reaching for the moon.

Retropear Tue 17-Jun-14 19:52:57

Said sheet isn't an individual school report it's detailed info of statutory maths key objectives which the maj will and should obtain.

IsItFridayYetPlease Tue 17-Jun-14 19:55:48

Surely "This is the Year 4 Curriculum" is fine for the few that are slap bang in the middle of the Y4 expectations. But for the rest it is more useful to know what your child is learning that week/term/year. This is the challenge for us teachers; would you rather I spent my time writing personalised letters to each parent each term (which may be out of date or totally wrong by two weeks into term as they've acquired certain skills really quickly or lost skills and knowledge from a previous assessment so most of the focus of my teaching is re-establishing those skills before we can move on to the planned learning), or would you rather I work on identifying and meeting each child's needs, which requires constant reflection and adaption of the long term planning overview I start from? I really don't have time for both.

mrz Tue 17-Jun-14 19:56:17

Did I suggest it is an individual school report? The said doculumt is a notional list of what will be taught in particular year groups unless your child is struggling or more able in which case you need information will support your child.

RafaIsTheKingOfClay Tue 17-Jun-14 20:13:48

Technically it doesn't have to be taught to any child in those particular year groups though does it? I thought the new NC document was quite clear that the objectives only had to be taught by the end of the KS they occur in and it wasn't statutory to teach them in the year groups set out.

Obviously if OFSTED decide that that is what they will look for it will change things. But I suspect that if teaching, progress and attainment are all good, they aren't really going to care about the order of topics/objectives on a long term plan.

mrz Tue 17-Jun-14 20:18:28

I suspect you are correct

AlarmOnSnooze Tue 17-Jun-14 20:29:48

I have 2 dc in school. dd1 is 9, and technically in year 5. except she has severe ASD, is in a Sn school, and so not ctually in year 5, iyswim. In her case, it is totally irrelevant to me (and her) what the year 5 curriculum is (for any subject) - she isn't working at that level, or anywhere near it (and may never be). so what I need (and get) is a comprehensive breakdown of where she is now, and what will be done next. and by comprehensive, I mean comprehensive - her IEPs are about 20 pages long, and set out exactly what she is learning, across the curriculum, in detail.

dd2 is 7, and also has SN (she is also on the spectrum), but is, generally speaking, academically advanced, although there are some surprising troughs which go alongside her peaks. what I need for her, is to know how she is doing in relation to her peers, and in relation to national expectations. In the areas she is ahead, I need to know how far ahead (so as to see whether she is keeping pace with herself, not coasting, and that nothing is being overlooked leading to nasty surprises later on). In the areas she is behind, I need to know how far behind, so as to know whether it is realistic for her to catch up, or if we need to start looking at huge amounts of differentiation. dd2 is in a MS school, and to have a document like the one linked at the top of the thread owuld be invauable. I have asked and asked all year to know (in a concise yet comprehensive form) what topics will be looked at. dd2's teacher has agreed to let me know, but despite repeated reminders, nothing has come of it. I know dd2's supposed NC levels, but that is all. because of this, and because I am not a primary teacher, I have no idea how to best set about helping her.

I have spent years helping dd1, and I am well versed (thanks to helpful input and info from dd1's school and teachers) in what size steps need to be taken, and in what order. Thanks o little input and unclear data (NC levels by themselves tell me nothing about what dd2 actually understands), I am less than certain about how to set about helping dd2 with her difficulties (and sadly, school are not picking up that slack either). So I can do the basics - I can work through times tables with her, I can teach her to tell the time. We can work on money concepts. But even in these basic areas, I have no idea what the baseline is that dd2 'should' know by now - I do know she struggles with feelign secure with her maths, but I don't know where the line is between her feeling insecure, and what is actually a bit too advanced for her (generally speaking).

AlarmOnSnooze Tue 17-Jun-14 20:34:31

The rubbish I read about not being able to provide decent, solid info on where a child is at, in attainment terms, is quite frankly, alarming.

I know what info can be provided on a child and their attainment levels, and progress (both predicted and actual). I get this info, once a term, from dd1's school. yes, I realise that some of it is outdated by the time I read it, but given that is is at most 12 weeks before I get a nw set of data, then the fact that some of it is behind the times is not so concerning - over time the pattern builds and it is easy to see the pattern.

There is no reason why this information cannot be supplied for my dd2 as well. when I do manage to speak to her teachers and support staff, it is clear they do actually hold (some of) the data. why they are so reluctant to share it with me (yet expect me to fill in the gaps they are leaving in her education) is beyond me.

Retropear Tue 17-Jun-14 20:50:03

I'm more alarmed that teachers think parents are so surplus to requirement they think we should be denied info as regards the bigger picture and national statutory objectives.

So you want us to help them learn tables and support their maths homework but don't think we should see where they are as regards national objectives or where they're aiming for long term,how everything slots together,progression etc

The more info parents get the better.

Really think it's time this arrogance by some was made history.Applauds the teachers who are happy to keep parents fully informed,it makes such a difference.

Retropear Tue 17-Jun-14 20:52:12

We're talking a few photocopied sheets or a PDF on a school website,hardly involves hours of work.

IsItFridayYetPlease Tue 17-Jun-14 20:54:33

Photocopies or PDFs of what Retropear?

Retropear Tue 17-Jun-14 20:59:20

The sheet in the op.

IsItFridayYetPlease Tue 17-Jun-14 21:02:25

However, the OP's link is to a curriculum that has only just been released, is not compulsory until September 2014, is not compulsory for all schools and is not the curriculum Year 2 will be taught until September 2015. It also gives a broad expectations and can never be published under the heading "this is what we will teach your child".

Retropear Tue 17-Jun-14 21:06:56

Well you know what my kids are in year 4 and 5. I don't know anything about the old curriculum,the new or how they differ.I don't know how my year 4 dd will be catered for even though she is supposed to be doing Sats in 2 years time based on the new or maybe not.

Quite frankly that stinks and I think it's high time the present gov made informing parents properly a priority.

RafaIsTheKingOfClay Tue 17-Jun-14 21:09:33

I agree that schools should provide some information about what they are covering in maths in each topic/half term. Although with good differentiation, that isn't as easy as it sounds. I also think if you go in and ask, they should be willing to tell you exactly what your child can do and what their next steps are.

But if you go in with that list and start talking about your child being behind because they haven't can't x,y or z on that list and it says they should be able to in year 3, then they are quite entitled to tell you that it isn't a problem because they do't teach that until year 5/6. And that's before you even get onto the thorny issue of the fact that the whole document is non-statutory if you are an academy or free school and you can do whatever you like.

Chances are, given that huge numbers of schools are still following the Primary Framework which was never statutory, that that isn't going to be an issue.

IsItFridayYetPlease Tue 17-Jun-14 21:09:40

The government don't know what they are doing with their curriculum and assessment, so maybe it would help them!

Retropear Tue 17-Jun-14 21:11:36

Thank you op for the link,clearly some think said info is highly classified,likely to self destruct and info us dim witted clueless parents shouldn't worry our pretty little heads over.hmm

IsItFridayYetPlease Tue 17-Jun-14 21:24:20

I have no concern with parents knowing the curriculum, but I have already voiced earlier why it is impossible to tell a parent exactly what their child will master, and hence we will move on to teaching, in minute detail at the start of each year / term, because I, as a teacher, can't predict how their child will respond to the teaching.

I name specific next step targets (e.g. use paragraphs in writing, spell all these words correctly, independently and consistently in their writing). But some skills have a progression in development and until step one is mastered there is no point in expecting the child to move to step two in the third week of term, or if they master step one and two in the first few lessons I can rapidly move on to steps three and maybe four. I have no crystal ball to 100% accurately predict this rate of progress, I cannot tell parents in advance what I will be actually teaching and what their child will actually succeed in learning. I'm not hiding information, I am not thinking parents can't understand a list of objectives, but the reason we train is to be able to react to the child each lesson and adapt the teaching not mindlessly follow a curriculum if it doesn't actually help the child.

Retropear Tue 17-Jun-14 21:30:27

Not asking you to deviate,simply want more info and national expectations/ objectives in more detail for each year group.Said link provides both and would be easy to provide.

IsItFridayYetPlease Tue 17-Jun-14 21:36:08

Glad you've been given the link, so hope it helps Retropear.
You are aware levels are going? From September there are only NC levels for Year 2 and Year 6 (until the end of the year). In your last post you said you are not asking me to deviate, but deviate from what? t
The given curriculum? If so I'd be a very poor teacher to stick to a curriculum.

RafaIsTheKingOfClay Tue 17-Jun-14 21:42:41

But there aren't statutory national expectations for each year group. There may be some suggested objectives, but really we are in the same situation we were in under the last curriculum. Which is here is some objectives to be achieved by year 2 and here are some to be achieved by year 6.

Tbf the curriculum does state that schools should display what their curriculum for each year group on a year by year basis is on their website. Although I suspect he hasn't really thought that through properly for a change because I think even the curriculum document itself contradicts itself slightly on that point.

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