Do children miss a lot of class education when they are pulled out to do special catch up work?

(38 Posts)
SweetSkull Mon 04-Nov-13 21:00:28

I don't know exactly how to write this down. My dd (6) always were slow at literacy and now from Y2 she has been pulled out of class to do some catch up work one by one or in small groups. I had just done a CAF for dyslexia with SENCO and probably this will happen more often (I think).
But will she be missing out on what the other children are learning in class when she is catching up out of class?

I know there isn't probably other way to fit extra support for children like her and I am not complaining, just trying to understand how school works.

TIA

thehiddenpaw Mon 04-Nov-13 21:05:46

Not good message from me. My son did extra literacy stuff and always complaining that he misses classroom work. When we queried, it seemed less major but there were odd bits he missed. Equally he plays for the football team and comes home not knowing how to do his homework! I suspect they try to minimise impact but reality is he did miss some stuff. His reading now terrific and we have to hunt bed to remove hidden books and torches!

SweetSkull Mon 04-Nov-13 21:09:57

Why can't they set up after school clubs for this? I would be willing to pay and even help paying for other children if there was a pot or something like that.

mrz Mon 04-Nov-13 21:11:57

Simple answer is yes whenever a child is withdrawn from class they miss the work the class is doing ... IMHO it widens the gap. Interventions need to be in addition to normal class work not a substitute.

WipsGlitter Mon 04-Nov-13 21:12:31

Interesting. My DS goes out for support with reading. I assumed the other children were doing reading when he was doing that so he wasn't missing anything. Must have a 'chat' with the teacher again...

SweetSkull Mon 04-Nov-13 21:13:45

Oh dear. Must take notes for next meeting with senco. But I don't want to be 'that' parent...

WipsGlitter Mon 04-Nov-13 21:15:56

Really mrsz. That's very worrying.

Gumps Mon 04-Nov-13 21:17:21

My ds has handwriting help but he does this during assembly. He thinks this is ace as assembly is boring smile

pudding25 Mon 04-Nov-13 21:46:41

Where I teach, interventions are done at 8.40am while class are settling in, register etc so they rarely miss anything. If any other interventions are needed, the children will be taken out of assembly or library. If these aren't possible, then we try to take them for a short period before lunch so that they will only miss the very end of a lesson.

thehiddenpaw Mon 04-Nov-13 22:10:24

It took me Ages to cop on. At least op aware. I only twigged when son complained.even with assembles he feels he missed out. He really did get benefit though and we are squabbling over books.guess you have to weigh it up and see if the help gives improvements.

Xochiquetzal Tue 05-Nov-13 02:40:46

It depends on how the school does it, DD does most of her extra work during registration and quiet reading time. Sometimes the TA will take her out of class once the teacher has explained the activity they'll be doing and she does the same work but with more support so she doesn't miss anything, just gets extra help doing the same work.

Mashabell Tue 05-Nov-13 07:10:07

That's one of the many costs of the messiness of English spelling for children who find learning to read and write more difficult than most because of them. If children are allowed to continue unassisted, their overall education suffers even more.

The best way u can minimise this is by giving extra help at home, with regular reading and writing.

mrz Tue 05-Nov-13 07:14:33

because spelling is a real obstacle to handwriting or speech or number work hmm

Xochiquetzal another of my pet hates is children sent out of class to work with a TA ...why do the children who most need a teacher's time get the least?

Mashabell Tue 05-Nov-13 08:42:18

...why do the children who most need a teacher's time get the least?
Economics? TAs are cheaper than fully trained teachers. Also when the teacher helps one child, the others have to get by on their own?

That's why the government is keen for parents to do the 1 to 1 teaching at home, for nothing.

There would be less need for this, if we got round to modernising English spelling and made it more learner-friendly.

wheresthebeach Tue 05-Nov-13 10:04:48

This is why we did it at home instead of ain school. My DD struggled with spelling but was adament that she didn't want to go out of class with the spelling group. We did Apples and Pears at home which worked really well.

maizieD Tue 05-Nov-13 11:02:17

Simple answer is yes whenever a child is withdrawn from class they miss the work the class is doing ... IMHO it widens the gap. Interventions need to be in addition to normal class work not a substitute.

Probably not an appropriate comment in this forum but just try to get a Secondary pupil to give up part of their break, lunch or after school time to work on their literacy skills.sad Perhaps Primary pupils are more amenable grin

SweetSkull Tue 05-Nov-13 11:18:44

Dd told me she didn't do PE yesterday because she needed to go do extra work in a small group . I don't really mind if she misses PE as she has a healthy weight and is very activity anyway. She got "exceeding" in PE on her last report lol.

noramum Tue 05-Nov-13 11:22:37

DD is in an advanced maths group and they weekly session is during assembly time. The same is for the literacy group.

She also has violin lessons which are happening during either free time (they can choose what to do) or arts & craft time.

I think the school sees that all non-class work is scheduled during times where a child is not missing vital lessons.

If your child is withdrawn during normal lessons then I would raise it with the school and ask why they are not scheduling it differently.

SweetSkull Tue 05-Nov-13 16:31:39

Well Dd is upset today becaue she got 0 out of 10 in her spelling test and 2 children were laughing at her. She said the teacher told them off but she is still quite down about it all. Is it worth talking to the teacher tomorrow about this, or will I be "that parent" if I do so?

HotDogHotDogHotDiggityDog Tue 05-Nov-13 16:57:18

I'm so glad its not just me that's a bit hmm about this.

DD9 has catch up sessions for her dyslexia, sometimes during lessons so she does miss out on normal work time with the other children.

One thing that has pissed me off recently though, she's really quite talented in art & crafts, so she was chosen to do an arts programme for 1 hour a day for 4 weeks for an art exhibition.
I was so proud of her for finding her confidence in something because she struggles with maths and literacy.

I went for her parents evening 2 weeks ago. Her teacher informed me that she hadn't been to any of her catch up sessions and he hadn't heard her reading for 4 weeks because she was at this art class. He asked me if I had been doing extra homework/reading with her at home to make up for it.

I was furious by the end of the conversation. At no point was I told she would be missing her catch up sessions and to make up for it at home. It felt as though he was giving me a lecture for not doing more than the usual reading time we do every night when he hadn't done any reading with her for 4 fucking weeks.

I understand a lot of learning starts at home but FFS. I do what I can with a full time job, DC and a home. As well as all the other day to day crap that come with being a parent.

If I thought I was any good at teaching her stuff, I'd home school her. I put my faith in the school to teach her and help where I can.

Sorry for the rant but it pissed me off.

I didn't say this to him though because I'm a wimp grin

SweetSkull Tue 05-Nov-13 17:17:31

Oh hotdog I feel for you. I also would be furious if I found out too late I was supposed to be doing extra at home...that is why I am in two minds if I should be 'that parent' always asking questions at the school or just trusting them 100%.

I have been told since reception that I should be doing more at home too. I do what I can, I am not a native English speaker myself and her dad is dyslexic so there is so much we can do. I am sure we can stretch further but than when will Dd have time to relax, play, and experience/learn other things? I am terrible at teaching and I didn't have any idea we were supposed to do so much at home, maybe it is because in my country when growing up, my parents never gave a s$%^&...I guess the answer is to remember to incorporate literacy and numeracy on the day to day mundane life...I not always remember to do it, must get in the habit.

I feel bad every hour of the day thinking about my Dd struggling at school and on days like today, when children laughed at her, it just makes things worse because now she has low and doesn't want to practice anything.

I sure need to mention it to the teacher shouldn't I? She is put off of practicing for the rest of the day because kids were laughing at her.

How fab for your DD to be doing the arts programme! Hope she can catch up with her other work in no time.

KatyMac Tue 05-Nov-13 17:23:17

maizieD Probably not an appropriate comment in this forum but just try to get a Secondary pupil to give up part of their break, lunch or after school time to work on their literacy skills

Possibly DD is not typical but this next two weeks she is giving up lunchtime, choir, returning to school an hour after finishing time and 2 hrs after finishing time to have extra English; mainly because 'Speaking & listening' is not longer relevant and her grade has dropped. Her teacher has offered extra help and they have been fairly inventive about when that happens

mrz Tue 05-Nov-13 17:58:13

^...why do the children who most need a teacher's time get the least?
Economics?^

hardly as the teacher is being paid to teach the class so economics would dictate that there is no TA.

mrz Tue 05-Nov-13 18:00:02

maizieD in primary we don't give them a choice wink

ShellyF Tue 05-Nov-13 18:04:31

In your primary mrz.

Hulababy Tue 05-Nov-13 18:10:28

In our school it is usually the TAs who are the most experienced and trained in specific interventions, and who are most often involved with specific outside agencies for certain pupils. Therefore, for us and our school set up - it makes more sense for the child requiring additional support to work with a TA.

We tend to do interventions in assembly time, and where not possible - short 15 minute sessions in an afternoon - so may miss a little time from class but never literacy, numeracy or phonics. They never miss PE or celebration assembly either, EAL or SpLD never miss singing or story either.

We do interventions when a child's IEP requires it, and with parental agreement.

We do a before school interention - also prepared and delivered by a TA - for children requiring support, usually Literacy, where prents may also attend to if they wish.

In a morning our TAs support the whole class learning in literacy and numeracy - and may be working with any of the groups, depending on the lesson plan for that day.

However, all this really depends on how your specific school works and how well trained/qualified/experiences the TAs are.

FWIW all our inspections and observations, from OFSTED, LEA adnd other agencies hoave rated our intervention policy as Outstanding and the pupil's progress (for those who attend them) as Outstanding - so something must be working right.

Our intervention timetable is very detailed and well organised - and, the key, is that our TAs are so well trained and work so closely with teachers but also, and rather importantly, the outside agencies.

Biscuitsneeded Tue 05-Nov-13 18:11:14

My son goes to extra literacy in year 4 because he didn't make sufficient progress in Y3. I was all for it until he told me he is missing 2 out of 4 maths lessons to do this! I mentioned my concerns to the teacher and she agreed it wasn't ideal but said the help was only available at those times. I asked her to monitor his maths in case it was being affected, but so far he is still doing well. My son is an able boy with Level 4s at the end of Year 3 for maths and reading, but a 3c in writing , hence the intervention. However, the other boys (they are of course all boys, depressingly) who are having literacy interventions with him find all aspects of learning quite difficult. I do wonder how it can be helping them to miss half of their maths lessons, but I don't know their parents well enough to say anything and I don't want to sound like I am saying "Well of course it's OK for MY boy, who is good at maths, but not for yours..."

Hulababy Tue 05-Nov-13 18:12:59

We would never do interventions in play times or lunch times. Our children really do need the time to let put excess energy.

mrz Tue 05-Nov-13 20:28:13

No ShellyF it lots of primary schools.

kilmuir Tue 05-Nov-13 21:12:44

My dd had an hour of one to one maths , once a week when she was in year 6. It was after school so we had to agree

ShellyF Tue 05-Nov-13 22:54:36

Maybe in your area mrz.Not looking to argue with you.Everyone arranges things differentlyand in ways which suit their own schools.
In our school children never miss their regular Numeracy and Literacy sessions.The support they have is in addition to their entitlement within class.Support is provided by TAs and teachers according to need.We use pupil premium money towards funding some of the support.
Timings vary week to week to ensure children are not always missing out on certain areas.
This is not what I expect all schools should do as we are all different.:-)

BackforGood Tue 05-Nov-13 23:04:08

What Xoch said on P1 and a great post from Hula on this page. Also good post from ShellyF

mrz Wed 06-Nov-13 06:47:54

ShellyF that's exactly what happens in my school and many others but it isn't what parents on MN report and it isn't what teachers on TES primary post either.

mrz Wed 06-Nov-13 06:55:57

ShellyF that's exactly what happens in my school and many others but it isn't what parents on MN report and it isn't what teachers on TES primary post either. If you read the comments from parents on this thread you will see children are missing important lessons to be sent off with a TA to work outside the class either for interventions or differentiated work.

sharpesttool Wed 06-Nov-13 07:22:10

In our school dd goes out for her maths and literacy support. She is constantly missing the first or last half hour of a session and being pulled out mid work which imo just gives her more to catch up on.

In fairness it used to be in maths and literacy but they have moved it I presume because she was missing work and now she is always complaining as she misses golden time, art and ict and is always the one who has to do their ict presentation having not finished it or never gets time to finish her clay model or misses baking so it feels to her like a punishment.

ShellyF Wed 06-Nov-13 18:11:42

I did read the posts and sympathise but think the problems are down to poor management.I would expect complaints from parents if the children were missing out.

lljkk Netherlands Wed 06-Nov-13 20:07:11

Dd was pulled out of ICT to do violin or latin (not like OP at all!) but yes she did suffer a bit, still her weakest subject.

Mirage Thu 07-Nov-13 13:31:58

Yes,DD2 [8] had some catch up maths lessons,which meant that she missed music and french with the rest of the class.She wasn't bothered about missing french but enjoyed music.wink

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