Year1 teacher yelled at daughter

(128 Posts)
saltpeanuts Thu 12-Sep-13 19:30:43

Dear mumsnetters, I really need your advice. confused

Today DD (5, year1) told me her teacher had yelled at her in front of the class. DD is usually a very quiet and sensitive child, so she felt confused and sad. She recognised she was being a bit noisy when the teacher yelled at her (her words), but not behaving intentionally badly. Still, do you think it's OK to yell at children, especially when they're that young? Should I speak with the her (the teacher) and try to find out what happened?

Just a note, I think it's ok to tell children off and speak things, but I don't agree with yelling/screaming at them. At the same time, I understand grown ups aren't perfect all the time and that working with children can be very stressful, but I don't want this to repeat.

What would you do in my place? Thanks for your advice

Johnny5needsinput Thu 12-Sep-13 19:32:50

Oh dear.

You need to toughen up. This is unlikely to be the last time your daughter is told off.

I'd do nothing.

Fwiw the teacher yelled can just mean the teacher spoke crossly.

BrianButterfield Thu 12-Sep-13 19:34:20

A quiet and sensitive child's idea of what yelling is is very different to what an adult's is. Find out what really happened - it may have been just a firm tone which was interpreted as a telling-off (this happens even in secondary school). School isn't nursery and teachers do need to be firm at times.

bundaberg Thu 12-Sep-13 19:35:15

no, i don't think it's ok to yell at children.

however, you don't actually know that she was yelled at. the teacher may just have raised her voice.

so.. i would do nothing

kotinka Thu 12-Sep-13 19:35:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

saltpeanuts Thu 12-Sep-13 19:37:41

I agree with that, and yes, I believe children have to be told off sometimes.

But when I asked DD how her teacher yelled at her, to imitate her tone, she raised her voice and really screamed, and I really believe her. Don't know how to bring it up with teacher, really it's the first time this happens (last year's teacher was firm but very calm).

The thing is I don't want to ignore it, but don't know how to mention it to the teacher sad

Oblomov Thu 12-Sep-13 19:38:00

I think you are totally overreacting. Speak to the teacher and find out exactly what did happen. She might, as we all suspect, tell a totally different story, to the one dd tells.
I think you may need to toughen up.

HangingGardenofBabbysBum Thu 12-Sep-13 19:38:59

If be surprised that, even if the teacher were so emotionally incontinent she lost her rag and bollocked kids willy-billy when tired, that she's have reached melting point already. They've only just gone back!

It's a shame your DD was upset, but she recognised that making noise when not supposed to = unpleasant consequences.

I'm sure she will be fine!

girliefriend Thu 12-Sep-13 19:39:02

I would say to the teacher, "was dd told off for something the other day?

Only she was quite upset at home and I wondered what happened"

Not on to shout at kids as a rule....

Johnny5needsinput Thu 12-Sep-13 19:39:04

What exactly was your dd doing that was so noisy?

HangingGardenofBabbysBum Thu 12-Sep-13 19:39:39

Willy-nilly, clearly.

mrspaddy Thu 12-Sep-13 19:39:54

I wouldn't do anything. I would talk to your daughter to tell her that she needs to listen to the teacher.

She might not have behaved badly but teachers have to keep some control and lay down the rules for the year in September.

Also you cannot be sure was it yelling or just a very firm voice.

kotinka Thu 12-Sep-13 19:40:42

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mrspaddy Thu 12-Sep-13 19:41:14

Just read your second post.. Screaming is on! So maybe ask the teacher.

tiggytape Thu 12-Sep-13 19:41:48

There is a difference between yelling and speaking at a loud enough volume to be heard by a child who is "being a bit noisy" - especially if it is something that needs saying across a busy classroom and cannot wait for a quiet chat (like "put the scissors down now please!")

By all means ask what happened and explain DD was worried about it but wait to hear the full story. Whilst yelling (as in ranting) has no place in a classroom sometimes giving very audible directions (shouting) does.

saltpeanuts Thu 12-Sep-13 19:42:03

Thanks for that girliefriend. English is not my first language and I struggle finding the right words. wink

Johnny5 she was making pop sounds with her mouth, which she knows she shouldn't have.

kotinka Thu 12-Sep-13 19:42:41

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BoundandRebound Thu 12-Sep-13 19:42:46

I wouldn't believe her for a moment

Kids make things up without knowing particularly about school

Speak to teacher

And I agree about needing to toughen up but think that's unfair, we all took time to 'toughen up' with our first child

hettienne Thu 12-Sep-13 19:44:07

If the children were being noisy, she probably had to raise her voice to get their attention.

Dreamingofcakeallnight Thu 12-Sep-13 19:47:47

Are you sure she actually yelled? If it were me, I'd give the teacher the benefit of the doubt and stress the importance of good classroom behaviour to my daughter.

lifeissweet Thu 12-Sep-13 19:48:37

I think it's highly unlikely that you DD was screamed at for making popping sounds with her mouth! If she was then I fear the teacher might need some serious help. That would be an utterly disproportionate response. I do shout sometimes if a situation is dangerous or if the whole class is being repeatedly noisy and I've reached the end of my tether (I can count those occasions on one hand - if you shout very rarely, it makes a massive impact when you actually do) but would never scream at an individual child. That would be horrible.

I would be inclined to think the teacher was cross rather than screamy, but I wasn't there.

kelda Thu 12-Sep-13 19:49:24

If she comes from a home where there is no shouting at all, then it is probably a bit of a shock for her to go in a class of loud children where the teacher has to raise her voice to be heard.

lifeissweet Thu 12-Sep-13 19:52:00

Although I would add that I would appreciate being told if a child had been very upset by a telling off. Some are way more sensitive than others and it's easy to misjudge when getting to know a new class. If I was told that a child felt like your DD, I would be gentler with her and make sure I tackled things differently. Some children do need a very firm tone and strong disapproval to change their behaviour, some need a friendly nudge. It's good to know these things.

saltpeanuts Thu 12-Sep-13 19:53:52

yes, I told her she needs to behave well, she knows she did badly, but she was probably distracted. She also says the teacher yelled specifically her, not at all the class.

Re lying, I really believe my daughter. I know kids make up things some time, but I also thing we parents can tell when they're telling the truth, especially when they're so young, they're absolutely transparent (at least DD is!).

Lastly, I know I will feel very bad if I don't do anything.

I think I will do as girliefriend suggest and try to bring it up with the teacher to see what her version is.

mrz Thu 12-Sep-13 19:58:33

As a teacher I promise not to believe half the things your child tells me about things you do in the home if you promise not to believe half the things they say about school.

Tiggles Thu 12-Sep-13 19:59:12

I don't think people are saying your daughter is lying intentionally. I know with all 3 of my boys that even if I just speak sternly at them without even raising my voice they can be reduced to tears and get upset that I Was 'shouting at them'. They are convinced I have been shouting and I definitely wasn't.

mymatemax Thu 12-Sep-13 20:01:33

teachers need to be able to raise their voices on occasion, it wont do her any harm.
Have you never raised your voice?

kotinka Thu 12-Sep-13 20:03:11

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

saltpeanuts Thu 12-Sep-13 20:03:18

Um... do you think I should see if it happens again? Maybe see if other parents have had the same experience?

kotinka Thu 12-Sep-13 20:03:57

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Oceansurf Thu 12-Sep-13 20:05:18

mrz How funny! I was just about to comment exactly the same thing!

mrz Thu 12-Sep-13 20:07:28

kotinka I didn't say I wouldn't listen just that I wouldn't believe half of it

HangingGardenofBabbysBum Thu 12-Sep-13 20:08:46

Definitely!

MarianForrester Thu 12-Sep-13 20:10:47

Teachers shouldn't yell. But they do. It's not nice, but have given up.

kotinka Thu 12-Sep-13 20:10:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mrz Thu 12-Sep-13 20:13:27

There is a huge difference between reporting a possible Child Protection disclosure and believing every single thing a child tells you about home life.

simpson Thu 12-Sep-13 20:15:33

If my yr1 DD came home and said that her teacher really screamed at her. I would believe her in that I would believe she perceived that the teacher was screaming.

It does not mean the teacher actually was screaming.

I would not do anything, but tell her to behave.

kotinka Thu 12-Sep-13 20:15:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

simpson Thu 12-Sep-13 20:18:25

When DS was in yr1 he wrote "when my mummy leaves me in the house on my own I like to play with my cars." (Spelling was not as good!)

Obviously what DS meant was when I was in the back garden!

The school did not even mention it to me, I saw it several months later when parents went in to look at their child's work.

mrz Thu 12-Sep-13 20:19:46

I was told by one 5 year old her mum was having a new baby and it wasn't her daddy's ... next day she said the baby had been born and they were calling him Jesus! ... should I have believed her kotinka?

kotinka Thu 12-Sep-13 20:21:08

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

simpson Thu 12-Sep-13 20:24:33

Belittling and dismissing is a bit different to not believing!

mrz Thu 12-Sep-13 20:25:12

It wasn't her [perspective kotinka it was her imagination

mrz Thu 12-Sep-13 20:25:47

very worrying that you can't see the difference

kotinka Thu 12-Sep-13 20:26:05

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheBuskersDog Thu 12-Sep-13 20:26:50

kotinka, for goodness sake, mrz obviously isn't saying if a child told you something that raised CP issues you'd ignore it, as I'm sure everybody apart from you understood.

Iwaswatchingthat Thu 12-Sep-13 20:27:40

My very sensitive dd2 (8) very often says "stop shouting at me" when I am speaking to her in a normal tone of voice when she just does not like what I am saying.

E.g. Please pick up your toys always results in a 'don't shout at me'

I think she perceives being asked/told what to do as being shouted at.

ipadquietly Thu 12-Sep-13 20:27:57

In my job, I listen daily to young children's accounts of events, which are exaggerated and skewed due to their immature social and language skills and misuse of vocabulary.

I don't understand how parents can insist that their child has given an accurate account (i.e. 'told the truth') about something that has happened at school, particularly as they weren't there to witness it!

The children aren't lying. They just aren't able to verbalise accurately.

mrz Thu 12-Sep-13 20:29:46

she hadn't overheard anything kotinka ...there was nothing to overhear ...it was a complete fantasy (her mum wasn't pregnant and didn't give birth to Jesus!) it was a story she made up!

TheBuskersDog Thu 12-Sep-13 20:30:39

Some children have not only imagination, but also a sense of humour unlike some adults.

kotinka Thu 12-Sep-13 20:30:52

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kotinka Thu 12-Sep-13 20:32:03

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mymatemax Thu 12-Sep-13 20:33:06

my ds told his teacher he loves it when grandad picks him up cos he has sweets in his car & lets him share his whiskey as grandad only drinks whiskey, even for breakfast.

All a combination of my dad teasing ds & his imagination

mrz Thu 12-Sep-13 20:34:06

oh for goodness sake kotinka don't you think as adults we are capable of differentiating between stories about mum giving birth to Jesus and a possible child protection issue!

LookingForwardToSalmon Thu 12-Sep-13 20:36:13

grin

Never believe a 5 year old. yes they lie to their mums all the time.

If you don't believe that then she has really pulled a number on you.

(I would bet my house that it was a stern telling off, nothing more)

redskyatnight Thu 12-Sep-13 20:36:51

DD has a cover teacher in Y1 who she disliked because (in DD's words) "the teacher is really shouty".

DS had the same teacher in Reception. She's not shouty, she just has a naturally loud voice which she frequently raises to be heard over classroom noise. DD's normal Y1 teacher was very softly spoken so the difference was very pronounced to her.

JohnnyUtah Thu 12-Sep-13 20:38:24

Your DD isn't lying though, she believes she is telling the truth. But she is 5 and it is unlikely the teacher did more than speak firmly. Do nothing, see how the rest of this term goes. Then make up your mind. You can't go in over every little thing, let alone bother the head about them!

kotinka Thu 12-Sep-13 20:38:33

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JohnnyUtah Thu 12-Sep-13 20:40:36

Your DD isn't lying though, she believes she is telling the truth. But she is 5 and it is unlikely the teacher did more than speak firmly. Do nothing, see how the rest of this term goes. Then make up your mind. You can't go in over every little thing, let alone bother the head about them!

LookingForwardToSalmon Thu 12-Sep-13 20:42:45

Then I advise anyone in this situation to go to the school and ask.

So the school can tell them what really happened.

Besides I'm sure a sensitive 5 year old who really had been screamed at loudly would be very very upset.

Did she wait until you got far enough away from the school home before she told you op?

LookingForwardToSalmon Thu 12-Sep-13 20:43:08

damn it that was meant to be a line through!

SignoraStronza Thu 12-Sep-13 20:45:59

Is she quite an 'old school' type of teacher? If so, a tried and tested tactic with a new class is to give a normally 'good' child a major bollocking for a minor thing in order to put the frighteners on the rest of them and bring them into line/establish authority.wink

idiot55 Thu 12-Sep-13 20:46:50

I would maybe speak to some other parents and see whatbtheybsay, any similar stories etc?

I personally wouldn't go into school, unless it becomes a frequent occurrence and your daughter gets upset.

SirChenjin Thu 12-Sep-13 20:48:05

Do you know any of the other parents in the class? If so, could you ask them to have a word with their child and ask them if they saw what happened?

Teachers sometimes have to shout.

mymatemax Thu 12-Sep-13 20:48:38

it wasn't mistreatment though was it, it was possibly shouting, maybe a loud voice. But neither constitute mistreatment do they

mrz Thu 12-Sep-13 20:50:58

I think most people are suggesting the OP tries to discover what her child means by "shout" because for some children it is a loud voice for others it would be a full on screaming fit!

kotinka Thu 12-Sep-13 20:53:21

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SirChenjin Thu 12-Sep-13 20:55:27

It is not mistreatment to raise your voice to a child in order to be heard. If you think it is then you are mistaken.

ljny Thu 12-Sep-13 21:04:34

Yes I do, but let's go back to the original problem. A child asserts minor mistreatment from a teacher. Many on the thread assert that the child should be automatically disbelieved. This doesn't sit well to me.
This.

We want our children to tell us when something really bad happens. For example, if a trusted adult touches them the wrong way and tells them it's a secret.

If we automatically disbelieve them on smaller stuff, will they bother to tell us if something is really off?

Op, I believe your child is telling the truth. It's also possible that a shy child who rarely gets told off, perceived a loud, angry voice as shouty.

I would let the teacher know your child was upset. See what she says, how she reacts. Keep an eye on the situation and try to pick up what other children say - was this a one-off? Was your child's perception exaggerated? Or is there a real problem?

No need to go in guns blazing. It's early days. If the teacher is good, she'll want to know how your child felt. But please, don't dismiss your child's report out of hand.

ketchupontoast Thu 12-Sep-13 21:04:57

I had a parent question me about shouting this week. I have not even given a firm word to anyone let alone a shout but mum wasn't happy.

junkfoodaddict Thu 12-Sep-13 21:05:40

I'm a Y2 teacher and I SHOUT! But, I make it very clear why I am shouting so they understand that I am doing so to make myself heard across a class of very noisy 6 & 7 year olds during their play. Certainly in Y1 class where play can 'play' a very big part of the everyday curriculum, a teacher may have to SHOUT across a classroom towards a specific child if they are doing a misdemeanour. The shouting will be to make oneself heard, not to frighten, intimidate or embarrass.

OP - I doubt your child will be emotionally damaged by this one event. From what you have said, a raised voice is obviously something new to her and even if she is an absolute angelic little girl, no child is perfect and all children will at some point 'be naughty' and need a ticking off. In a nice way, get over it. The fact that you are stressing over it is probably why your daughter is too.

babyboomersrock Thu 12-Sep-13 21:10:16

Yes I do, but let's go back to the original problem. A child asserts minor mistreatment from a teacher. Many on the thread assert that the child should be automatically disbelieved. This doesn't sit well to me

Nor me. I'm always saddened on threads such as this, where the attitude is mostly "oh, but kids lie", "Oh, but kids have to learn", "oh, you'll have to toughen up, OP". This child is only 5, the first term is barely under way, and an adult is yelling at her already. Does no-one expect a measure of self-control from teachers?

I loathed the shouting at school - I'm in my 60s, and I still remember how nervous I felt in that atmosphere. I didn't bother telling my parents because they'd probably have felt as most of you do - that it was an inevitable part of the education system. I just went in day after day, feeling scared and powerless, making myself invisible.

Some of my classmates felt the same and also kept their heads down - the others "toughened up" and stopped giving a damn who shouted. Was that a successful educational technique, either way?

babyboomersrock Thu 12-Sep-13 21:15:59

Is she quite an 'old school' type of teacher? If so, a tried and tested tactic with a new class is to give a normally 'good' child a major bollocking for a minor thing in order to put the frighteners on the rest of them and bring them into line/establish authority

In the 1950s, yes. That's exactly what my teachers were like, only they had weapons at their disposal too. Disgusting way to behave with young children.

I expected more, 60 years on.

LIZS Thu 12-Sep-13 21:19:57

Were you there ? No. You admit your dd is sensitive , could she perhaps have exaggerated the "yelling". She has been the class about a week and they are still adjusting from the perhaps more nurturing style of Reception.

MarianForrester Thu 12-Sep-13 21:24:59

The best teachers don't shout. I sometimes shout,very rarely, but I am not a trained professional grin

ipadquietly Thu 12-Sep-13 21:25:05

Very few posters have said that the OP's dd was lying.

It's just that in a class of 30 5 year olds, you would get 30 versions of the truth.

CaterpillarCara Thu 12-Sep-13 21:29:53

I once saw a teacher shout really loudly at a class of upset and scared children.

Sounds terrible, right?

A wasp had flown into the class and they were all running round and panicking loudly. She shouted over their hysteria to get them to sit down so she could shoo it out the window.

A child could have told you the first half, which is the truth, but would have left some vital information out.

If it were me, I'd make a mental note to keep an eye on similar stories and see if a pattern emerged. Then I would talk to the teacher if things were still not going well in a short time.

tinytalker Thu 12-Sep-13 23:15:36

Oh dear, I feel sorry for the teacher. I bet you'd be the first parent in the school if another children was noisy and disrupting your dd's learning. Your child has got another 12yrs of teachers raising their voice and calming a disruptive class to deal with, she needs to get used to it or she will be a nervous wreck by the end of her school life!

BlackMogul Thu 12-Sep-13 23:46:33

This type of problem is why there was a letter from 100 educationalists in the Daily Telegraph today! 30 children in a class and some not ready to be quiet when expected to be!

babyboomersrock Thu 12-Sep-13 23:52:30

Oh dear, I feel sorry for the teacher

Why? Because the occasional parent might just ask her why she was shouting?

What a prospect for the 5-year-old. Get used to it, kid, or you'll be a nervous wreck by the end of your school years. Why should she get used to it? Is that really the best that teachers can do?

I know it isn't, because I know teachers who'd regard themselves as failures if they had to shout to control a class, let alone one small child.

Why is it all right for adults to shout at children, but not at each other? Why do we accept this for our children when we wouldn't tolerate it ourselves? What lesson are we teaching them?

babyboomersrock Thu 12-Sep-13 23:58:54

I didn't see that letter BlackMogul. Could you link to it?

Prambo Thu 12-Sep-13 23:59:12

<rolls eyes>

Tell me why, exactly, a recalcitrant five year-old should not be shouted at.

BlackMogul Fri 13-Sep-13 00:16:36

Telegraph.co.uk. Google it. Comes up immediately. Sorry, not sure about a link. It has been discussed a lot today on Radio 5 . These experts are talking about the benefits children can gain by starting formal teaching later. I am surprised that anyone thinks it is ok for a ks1 teacher to shout. Of course, this may not have happened, but it does suggest the child or children did not settle.

babyboomersrock Fri 13-Sep-13 00:18:57

Stop rolling your eyes, Prambo, and tell me why she should. I believe children have the right to feel safe and unthreatened at school (and at home, obviously).

As an aside, shouting doesn't work. If it did, there would be a bit of it at the beginning, and then none as the children began to "learn" from it. But actually, teachers (and parents) who shout tend to go on shouting.

I bet we've all known teachers who shout, and other teachers who manage the same class without shouting. Why is that?

mrz Fri 13-Sep-13 06:47:16

Sometimes shouting does work - when my son was small he went to pick up a broken glass and a shout quickly stopped him from possibly cutting himself badly. I've also shouted at children about to dash into the road ...wrong? would you prefer I try to reason with them after they are hit by a car.
Without knowing the circumstances it's not possible to judge why the teacher "shouted" on this occasion or how loudly.

Morgause Fri 13-Sep-13 06:59:14

How close was she to the teacher? If she was the other side of the room then the teacher would have to raise her voice to make herself heard.

Projection of voice and shouting are 2 different things.

If you do go and complain I'm sure the staff will have a good laugh about it in the staffroom at playtime.

exoticfruits Fri 13-Sep-13 07:17:44

You were not there- you can't know. What is 'yelling' to one child wouldn't even register with another.
As a parent you need to help your child to cope- explain that if she is being noisy the teacher might have to yell to be heard. If she doesn't want to be shouted at she needs to do the 'right' thing.
She will meet all sorts of people, they won't all be like you.
Parents cannot control their child's whole environment.

Galena Fri 13-Sep-13 07:59:20

I think one problem on this thread is that people are assuming children either tell a complete lie or tell the complete truth.

She said the teacher screamed at her. People seem to be assuming that either the teacher did scream, or that she barely raised her voice. I would say the truth is somewhere between the two. Yes, maybe the teacher shouted loudly at her for a minor misdemeanour, which would have been an overreaction on her part. Or maybe she didn't shout and the child's perception is skewed. Or maybe it's somewhere in the middle. Maybe she had been asked to stop a few times, maybe the whole class was making silly noises and had been asked to stop... at the moment you don't know because you weren't there.

The best thing to do, if it upset the child is firstly to say 'I will speak to the teacher tomorrow, but you mustn't make silly noises in class' so she knows you don't approve of her behaviour. Then go into class. Don't accuse the teacher of screaming, but tell her DD was upset and ask what happened.

Then you need to trust. You need to trust the teacher to give you a true report - or something close. At this stage in the year to believe a 5 year old over an established teacher (once the teacher has given her view) would be poor judgement, in my opinion. I'm not saying that you discount your child's story completely, but that you apply a little caution. Reinforce that you believe that she feels that the teacher screamed at her, but that maybe the 'scream' was simply a raised voice. Reinforce that she can tell you when she is worried about something. But remember that children's perceptions and memories of incidents are not generally as accurate as an adult's

kelda Fri 13-Sep-13 08:26:20

I'm not assuming the child is lying at all. I'm sure she did think that the teacher screamed at her.

But her perception of the differences between 'raised voice', shouting, yelling, screaming, might be skewed becase she is just five years old and because she comes from a household where there is no shouting (and how many of us can say that? With three children, I certainly can't say there is never any shouting in my house!)

Galena Fri 13-Sep-13 09:42:09

Absolutely. I understand what you are saying. But those posters who have expressed outrage about your stance seem to be saying that you are implying that the child has lied.

It really isn't a 'them' and 'us' situation. it is 2 different perceptions of the same incident which cannot both be completely accurate and is probably partway between the two.

babyboomersrock Fri 13-Sep-13 09:47:00

If you do go and complain I'm sure the staff will have a good laugh about it in the staffroom at playtime

Nice. But yes, you're probably right. I guess that's why I find this thread so depressing.

As for comparing this to "one-off shouts" where a child is about to cut himself on broken glass or dash into the road, or there's a wasp in the room panicking everyone - well, that's hardly the same, is it? There are times when it's appropriate to react with a raised voice to get someone's attention in an emergency, and most of us do not need that pointed out. My gripe is with the teacher who consistently uses shouting. It's lazy and sets a very bad example, but it is far from unusual.

I do think it's a slippery slope - the assumption that a child's interpretation of things is not as valid as an adult's (you could, after all, say the same thing about any two adults' versions of a story). We've all heard of cases where that sort of belief has had tragic consequences.

We owe it to our children to take them seriously - not to go in, all guns blazing, accusing teachers of verbal abuse, but to let the child know that what she feels and says does matter, that you will approach the teacher and get her side of the story. With my own child, naturally I'd have said first that she must keep quiet in class and listen to the teacher. That doesn't mean I'm going to expose her to constant yelling - and as I said earlier, not all teachers shout.

However, I give up. Sorry, OP - seems that many people will defend shouting at all costs. Apparently their way is right, and your child has to adapt.

anotetofollowso Fri 13-Sep-13 10:13:16

I'd bring it up, but don't expect too much as a result. For me, the main point of bringing it up would be to make it clear that you hear what your DD says, and that your DD does tell you what goes on in the classroom. The teacher will be less likely to shout, knowing those those things. Sadly, I think that's the best outcome you can hope for.

Having said that, it is true that for sensitive children especially a firm tone can feel like a yelled reprimand. It is possible that the teacher did not shout at all. Either way, I would mention it.

Galena Fri 13-Sep-13 10:17:18

The child will need to adapt if her child is a shouty teacher, whether that is right or wrong, unless the op decides to take the child out of school either to another school or not.

I would shout occasionally in class, particularly at the start of the year. I'm not apologising for it, nor am I saying every teacher should shout. It was my style, and I didn't traumatise children for life and parents still come up to me now and tell me their child loved being in my class. Yes, even the timid and quiet ones.

I would however say that, whilst 2 adults' descriptions of an incident may differ, the reports are likely to be more similar than 2 children's reports of the same incident.

OrmirianResurgam Fri 13-Sep-13 10:22:02

Define 'being a bit noisy'.
Define 'yelling'

I think that unless you know exactly what each means you will get nowhere. It might be that as your child is usually well-behaved being told off at all upsets her.

My kids always told me about the 'shouty teachers' and but took it in their stride. There's a difference between a habitual shouter who does it because they can't get control of the class, and someone who shouts when they really have HAD ENOUGH and it works because it's unusual.

AlfalfaMum Fri 13-Sep-13 10:33:26

I'm surprised and a bit sad at the amount of people who think it's fine for a teacher to scream at a child, or that dd must be lying. So it's ok to terrify children, and they should automatically not be believed anyway, without even asking the teacher what happened? hmm
I've got three dc and none of them have ever made up a story about a teacher (I don't think it's that common!), none of them are shy but if they were screamed at they would be really upset, and scared of that teacher from then on.

I would definitely talk to the teacher, find out what happened.

tobiasfunke Fri 13-Sep-13 10:37:57

I have a 5 year old DS in P1 who is way too sensitive. He told me this week he got told off by the teacher who was really really cross with him because his friend told the teacher DS had tried to give him a kiss and a hug.
Turns out after all the tears and the upset that the teacher hadn't actually said anything she just looked cross. DS had said sorry straight away and that was that. Said teacher had given him a sticker 5 minutes later for good work. But he was so horrified he'd nearly got into trouble he'd blown the whole thing out of proportion.
Even though I completely understand why Ds was upset because I was the same highly sensitive child I told him he was too old for that sort of thing and if he didn't want to be told off then don't do it.
You need to get your DD to toughen up a little bit. That is my aim for DS so that he doesn't suffer the agonies of worrying about stuff that I did and takes things like this in his stride.

Oceansurf Fri 13-Sep-13 10:42:55

The best teachers don't shout. I sometimes shout,very rarely, but I am not a trained professional

Written by someone who is not a teacher, and has never set foot in a classroom....

I have been known to shout, on occasion. Short, sharp, effective. Anyone who says that a fantastic teacher never shouts has clearly never spent the entire year with one (or the 'fantastic teacher' has never had a truly challenging class, or a situation which demanded a louder voice than normal)

One shout is not damaging, and is not going to have any lasting effect.

By all means, definitely go into school and ask for clarification off the teacher as to what happened.

No one on this thread knows exactly what happened. It could be that the child in question was being seriously naughty. It could have been the third time that the child had been told to stop doing something. The teacher may not have shouted at all. He/she may simply have raised their voice a little.

Complete overreaction.

OrmirianResurgam Fri 13-Sep-13 11:03:19

DH was a non-shouty teacher. Funny that cos he shouts at our kids wink. However in all areas he was thought of as a really good teacher by his colleagues and even his head. But he just got knocked back to HLTA because he couldn't keep up with the paperwork and the reporting. Hey ho. Three cheers for Ofsted!

LookingForwardToSalmon Fri 13-Sep-13 11:11:58

Lord there are going to be a lot of wet 5 children running about.

Because some of the replies on this thread translate like this to me

'Oh no, no one can shout at my darling. No, they never do anything wrong ever ever and if a teacher raises an eyebrow at them they will faint dead away. Traumatise them for life if anyone tells them off it will! How will you ever tell the difference between real abuse and being told off!'

LookingForwardToSalmon Fri 13-Sep-13 13:07:55

5 *year old

exoticfruits Fri 13-Sep-13 13:46:10

Well said Oceansurf- it is a complete overreaction.

mrz Fri 13-Sep-13 16:47:50

"As for comparing this to "one-off shouts" where a child is about to cut himself on broken glass or dash into the road, or there's a wasp in the room panicking everyone - well, that's hardly the same, is it?" were you there? If not you as much in the dark about the reason why the teacher shouted/raised her voice/screamed as the rest of us...

intitgrand Fri 13-Sep-13 17:00:35

when I asked DD how her teacher yelled at her, to imitate her tone, she raised her voice and really screamed

that is because children can't project their voices the way adults can.When children get louder they get screamier, please don't make a fool of yourself by believeing the teacher was screaming at your DD.
Just let it drop, and help your child to develop some much-needed resilience

FlorenceMattell Fri 13-Sep-13 17:26:00

Your daughter was in the wrong, she admitted that.
So you are saying the teacher treated her unfairly by disciplining her? Yes of course it was in front of all the other children, she doesn't have time to take every child out of the class to tell them off.
It may have been unfair. If you are a good mother you will her teach her to be tough; and deal with things that happen that are unfair.
Mother who spoil their children have children who end up unhappy. Think of the fat Dursley boy in Harry Potter.

Scrounger Fri 13-Sep-13 17:33:01

I agree with the posters saying that saying that your DD may perceive a stern voice as being screamed at / shouted at especially if you don't shout. I wouldn't say anything to the teacher at this point but I would keep an eye on it and keep talking to my child about he it is going at school. I may have a quick chat with the teacher to see how my child was settling in to a new class etc and mention then that she can get a little upset and see how the teacher responds. It it happens again talk to the teacher to find out her side of the story.

mrz BTW my DS told the teacher that his Daddy had fought in WWII. His teacher thought it was very funny, DH found it less funny.

daphnesglasses Fri 13-Sep-13 19:18:52

I'm really shock by some of the comments on this thread

Of course OP should believe her dd and of course it is not okay for a teacher to shout as a matter of course. If you went over to relationships board and dhs were shouting at dws that wouldn't be okay. Most parents try not to shout and sometimes fail, but would appreciate dcs could be scared and it comes from a background (hopefully) of love and trust.

Teachers are only human and may occasionally shout and dd can be told that but to assume dd is not telling the truth or that children are 'naughty' and need to be shouted at/toughen up etc is quite frankly shocking in this day and age. If they're shouting and humiliating children they've lost control IMO.

FlorenceMattell Fri 13-Sep-13 20:21:58

Daphne classes think your making too much of this. Child is noisy. Child is told to be quiet. I doubt teacher shouted and humiliated child.

saltpeanuts Fri 13-Sep-13 21:10:15

Well, I had to go to work earlier this morning, so her dad took her to school and picked her up, so unfortunately I didn't have the chance to speak with the teacher.

But later at home, DD said teacher had told her off again (no yelling this time), but said that she had said to her 'she was giving her a headache' and punished her / put her on timeout. She punished only her even though DD said there were more children playing.

What I find most puzzling of all is that DD has never been reprimanded before by her teachers, and everybody that knows her tells me how well behaved and sweet she is (family, friends, previous teachers). There hasn't been any change in her behaviour, so I don't understand why this new teacher seems to finds her so annoying. confused

I am really concerned now and will talk with her on Monday, to see what she thinks the problem is.

intitgrand Fri 13-Sep-13 21:26:10

What a typical MN post this is turning out to be.The teacgher is of course evil, vindictive deranged witch and the child is sweetness and light.

exoticfruits Fri 13-Sep-13 22:21:21

Maybe DD is just finding the transition into year 1 difficult and doesn't understand that there are times that she is supposed to listen to instructions and be quiet.

FlorenceMattell Fri 13-Sep-13 23:13:10

Sorry OP think your thread is a wind up.

Scrounger Sat 14-Sep-13 09:01:48

Are you sure she has never, ever, ever been reprimanded by a teacher before? I find that very hard to believe.

saltpeanuts Sat 14-Sep-13 09:24:57

yes. I mean, never has been punished before. Also, new teacher doesn't seem to be so hard on other children.

As I've said before DD a very calm girl, used to playing on her own and being quiet, although happy to be around other kids too. Now, if you won't take my word for it...

Talking to the teacher and asking her if she thinks there's a problem and what we could do seems to be the only way to find out what's going on. hmm

Scrounger Sat 14-Sep-13 10:43:14

It really doesn't bother me I'm just pointing out that it is highly unusual for a child never to have been reprimanded before, there is a difference from being punished. I haven't queried that she isn't well behaved, calm etc just that all children at some point do something they aren't supposed to do at a particular time and will be told not to do it. Of course, they should be told in an appropriate way.

How do you know that the teacher isn't as hard on the other children? That comment has to be based on your daughter's perception of what is happening. I would question at this stage in the year why she is saying that. Talk to the teacher but be aware that you only have one side of it.

JustBecauseICan Sat 14-Sep-13 10:49:24

How do you know the teacher isn't as hard on the other children?

Might that be because they are better behaved than yours?

saltpeanuts Sat 14-Sep-13 11:19:58

DD said she was playing with other children, but only she got yelled at and punished.

Please stop being so agressive!

cory Sat 14-Sep-13 11:20:39

"There hasn't been any change in her behaviour, so I don't understand why this new teacher seems to finds her so annoying."

How on earth can you know whether her behaviour has changed in a school setting? You don't see how she behaves in a class setting or whether her behaviour in class has changed.

Ime children are often so different away from home that you would hardly know it is the same child.

A friend of mine was very concerned that her sweet little boy found it difficult to find friends and went into the school to complain that the other children were avoiding him. The teacher gently explained that the other children were frightened of him because he played so roughly and had knocked them down several times. You could never have guessed from the way he behaved at home.

I knew my ds as a lively chatty little boy: at school they wondered if he was developmentally delayed since he hardly seemed able to speak.

Another friend used to speak very proudly of her eldest child as being so compliant and well behaved; she worried about his younger brother who seemed more defiant. The rest of us knew that it was the elder boy that you had to watch the moment he was away from his mother's watchful eye; he just changed into a totally different child. Quite sweet, but you couldn't take your eyes off him. The younger boy was less difficult because his behaviour was always the same, whether he was being watched or not.

exoticfruits Sat 14-Sep-13 11:40:28

I agree that children can behave entirely differently. Generally parents are amazed to find they have a polite and well behaved child and ask if we are speaking about the same one! It is much, much harder to tell a parent that their polite and well behaved child doesn't show that side at school.

RiversideMum Sat 14-Sep-13 11:42:51

Good grief. So we know that your child was making a silly noise. Maybe the teacher had already asked for her to stop? Maybe the teacher had asked for all of the children to quieten down a bit? Who knows? I'd say that a teacher correcting her in a loud voice was a pretty normal state of affairs in a classroom.

cory Sat 14-Sep-13 12:12:08

I imagine most teachers have at least one meeting a term with an irate parent who declares that "my child could never do anything like that"- and the teacher thinking to herself "so how do we account for the fact that I and 29 classmates actually saw him do it?"

Dd and her best friend had a conversation about old days recently, the silly things they got up to in primary school and especially the horrible things they said and did to each other.

Now the things best friend got up to I knew about at the time, because dd came home and was upset about them. But as for the things dd did to her, I can honestly say I would never have believed it of her. And it certainly wasn't the way she told the story in those days. Too late to be shocked and horrified now, especially since best friend has clearly survived without being traumatised- but it was certainly a revelation. shock

daphnesglasses Sat 14-Sep-13 13:43:13

Well how bizarre no-one said the teacher was evil/deranged etc at all perhaps just slightly unprofessional but it seems some posters think its quite acceptable to say a child must automatically be lying confused

Some bosses in workplaces shout etc but it's generally seen as bullying if it's a sustained approach to dealing with things, same in schools or anywhere IMO. Children are human beings just as much as adults ffs. Some adults are a PITA and I'd like to shout at them but I don't. No difference.

I'd tend to accept what my dcs say as being true because I trust them and they're honest. Don't think that's especially unusual. Teacher probably having an off day/ moment, perfectly understandable. But I don't think it's automatically okay for teachers to shout (in a 'yelling'/aggressive rather than just voice raising way) and I stand by that

ljny Sat 14-Sep-13 13:59:47

Why are so many posters so keen to blame the victim?

Schools do get it wrong. Not all teachers are perfect.

Op, your plan is sensible: 'Talking to the teacher and asking her if she thinks there's a problem and what we could do seems to be the only way to find out what's going on.'

For the life of me, I can't understand why some posters have a problem with that. Good luck on Monday.

kelda Sat 14-Sep-13 15:21:42

victim hmm?

Elphinate Sat 14-Sep-13 15:30:06

Victim?

Really?

Teachers are there to control the learning environment of their class.

The OP's daughter admitted that she misbehaved. She didn't like being told off.

Standard behaviour.

OP, go and talk to the teacher by all means, but be prepared to be making a fool of yourself. This isn't Foundation Stage anymore, and that means that there are rules and times to be quiet which, obviously, your DD is having problems understanding.

daphnesglasses Sat 14-Sep-13 16:04:07

be prepared to be making a fool of yourself
hmm
nice
what, for saying what she thinks and putting forward a concern/ discussing something as the child's parent.

Some teachers have very weird attitudes, they're in a position of trust and loco parentis but they're educators predominantly, and should do that in as nurturing and kind an environment as possible. Yelling at people and humiliating them in public, particularly the young and defenceless, is something generally considered more abusive than kind. Just because it may go on all the time doesn't mean it's okay.

cory Sat 14-Sep-13 18:17:24

A child experiencing that the teacher yelled when she told them off doesn't make the child dishonest: it just shows that she is seeing this from her own pov, thinking of how she felt when she was told off rather than what it was like for the teacher or the other children. 5yos are not usually very good at seeing other people's viewpoints: it doesn't make them liars.

My friend's ds who complained to his mum that the other children were nasty to him and wouldn't play wasn't being dishonest: he just didn't twig that there was a connection between the manner in which he played (pushing them over) and their reaction.

Going in to talk to the teacher is fine provided the OP is prepared to do it in a non-accusatory manner and willing to listen to the teacher's pov.

The problem with a class room situation is that it has to meet the needs of 31 people. For the dd, clearly, a nurturing environment would be one where she doesn't get told off. For the child next to her a nurturing environment might be one where anyone making distracting noises is stopped from doing so.

My nephew spent 3 years in a class where the teacher was unable to stop a handful of noisy and distracting children. He hated it and learnt next to nothing. It wasn't a nurturing environment for him. But I don't suppose the other children realised they were ruining school for him.

FlorenceMattell Sat 14-Sep-13 19:24:10

Why would the teacher pick on OPs child. In my experience of teachers; having had a child at school for over twenty years, dozens of teachers. Teachers are professional and most like children. Yes they sometimes get it wrong ie tell the wrong child off for talking. But that's life, children need to learn these things happen.
The year 1 child is not very old, so not lying but her view of events may not be accurate. Obviously for her being told off was very upsetting and now she perceives the teacher doesn't like her. Yes OP you need to speak to the teacher to get a balanced view. But I would go along with a concern that your dd has not settled well etc not accusations.
Unless you have ran the teachers cat over or dented her car etc why would the teacher have a personal vendetta against your child. Sorry not buying that she is picking on her. If she was that unpleasant you would hear it from other parents too.

grants1000 Sat 14-Sep-13 20:23:07

And do not discuss it with other parents in the playground, it's private between you and school. If you start to gossip, and it is gossip, you will have your card marked as a gossip, do you want that?

You and this thread have totally overreacted. Its simple, just ask the teacher, then all will become clear. Teachers do talk in loud voices and our precious children do things wrong and need to be told about it. So you need to be prepared to suck it up, maybe not on this occasion but in the future. Teachers also get it wrong sometimes.

Talk to the teacher, deal with it, draw a line and move on. It's not the be all and end all.

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