New EYFS how does it differ?

(66 Posts)
simpson Tue 09-Jul-13 19:13:12


DD is currently in reception and all year she has been assessed on the old EYFS and parents have been told where their DC are according to the old assessments ie working at a point 6/7.

Their school reports have just come out and they have suddenly switched to the new EYFS which seems tougher and they are not awarding any DC an "exceeding" unless they have reached an NC level of a 2C, surely this can not be correct?

Also it now seems that certain things have not been covered (ie money and telling the time) as they were using the old EYFS iyswim so then no child got "exceeding" in numeracy because they have not been taught it hmm

Only one child out of a possible 90 got "exceeding"

Are there other areas that should have been taught that haven't if they have been using the old EYFS?

(Have meeting on Thursday, so want to get my facts straight!)

Alibabaandthe40nappies Tue 09-Jul-13 19:23:32

simpson this seems really weird, and is bad of your school to have taught to the wrong curriculum if that is really what has happened. I remember the reception head of curriculum talking at the new parents evening back in autumn about the new curriculum and how they had rewritten a lot of material to take it into account, so my impression from that is that there was a fair amount of change.

DS1 is in reception this year too, and got exceeding in more than half of the 17 areas. We were kind of expecting it, they've been telling us how far ahead he is since he first got there - bizarrely the thing I'm the most pleased about is that he got expected for personal care and forming relationships, because these have been the problem areas for him.

Some parents have been indiscreet about their DCs results in the playground, and there seem to be a sprinkling of exceedings - so I don't know if our school have marked more generously?

Sorry none of that is very helpful perhaps - but I would be furious at them just missing whole chunks of the curriculum and then assessing against them. That is really unfair.
I guess it will make the school look like they have done a fabulous job with them in year 1 though...

Periwinkle007 Tue 09-Jul-13 19:24:39

that is rubbish. Did your daughter get exceeding for her reading? I hope so!

I have no idea how the 2 differ in actual what is taught though so can't help there but I can't believe they didn't check what they were supposed to be teaching them.

I can understand that yes it is tougher so there won't be as many exceeding as there used to be 7/8/9 but 2c can't possibly be right in any of the areas or it couldn't be reception level.

mrz Tue 09-Jul-13 19:28:08
mrz Tue 09-Jul-13 19:29:40

A children working at exceeding level is working beyond reception level (they are exceeding what is expected in reception)

simpson Tue 09-Jul-13 19:30:21

I was sooo angry when I got her report tbh...

She was given 4 exceeding s in reading, speaking, numeracy and writing and 3 were taken off her.

There are other kids who are reading stage 9 books who got expected!

DD got the only exceeded in the year.

Other parents have been told their DC are bang in where they need to be all year and come the report have all emergings angry

My concern is that if she has not been taught the correct stuff how can she learn it?

Also a 2C is nearing end of yr2 level so surely this cannot be right?

tiredbutnotweary Tue 09-Jul-13 19:41:07

I've been waiting for this (in a writing on the wall way).

If you google the EYFS profile FAQs re moderation (I think) one of the FAQs specifically states that schools are NOT to say that a child must reach level 2 to be awarded exceeding. Putting DD to bed so can't link to it now but will do later if no one else finds it.

Also check out TES primary forum (search exceeding) where you will find teachers awarding exceeding from orange band (even below).

This level of disparity, between schools / LAs / moderators, makes a mockery of the whole thing.

Finally check towards the end of the hand book - a child awarded an exceeding in reading but not in attention and listening would be considered an odd profile. Something I have no doubt I will be raising with DDs school as my money is on her only getting an exceeding for reading and nothing else ....

Periwinkle007 Tue 09-Jul-13 20:11:02

we haven't got ours so no idea from our school at all, last parents evening was Feb.

I am pleased for your daughter she got 4 exceeds, that is brilliant but from what you have said on here that the school have told you I am surprised she hasn't got more especially when I have seen people saying their children have got a lot more exceeds than that.

Yes exceeds is above the level expected but I know perfectly well that in many ways my daughter started reception ahead of the old expected levels but looking at the new ones I think she will get maybe 1 or 2 exceeds. In a different school perhaps she would have had more.

How can a level 2 even be mentioned in relation to reception levels. I don't understand that. the reception levels surely have to be below the NC levels or are we going to suddenly find next that the NC levels are all changing? otherwise if you have children only getting expected in reception who you would presumably then expect to be an expected 1b at the end of Yr1 will have already met it before they even get into yr1 or am I missing something here.

as for the fact she hasn't been taught stuff and how is this going to be sorted out which is at the end of the day the most important part of your post I think you need to request at your meeting (and follow it up in writing IMO) that they confirm to all parents what work was NOT covered in reception that should have been and how exactly this will be addressed to ensure all children are taught this in Yr1 without it impacting on their Yr1 learning. I suppose as many things in reception are introducing stuff they will then recover and build upon in yr1 then hopefully they will be able to do this without it being a problem. If you are not satisfied they are going to do it then you want to know exactly what has been missed so you can look at it with her yourself.

simpson Tue 09-Jul-13 20:11:59

Tired - could you link it for me as I cannot find it blush

simpson Tue 09-Jul-13 20:14:59

Peri - that is why I am so cross is that there could be stuff she has not been taught that she should have been.

Her report only showed 1 exceeding, the other 3 were removed by EYFS Head before I got them...

Wafflenose Tue 09-Jul-13 20:21:11

The school shouldn't have been referring to the old levels at all, and they can't have taught that curriculum. They just can't.

Around 40% of children are achieving 'expected' across the board. The bar has been raised so far that 'exceeding' is rare. DD2 got 'expected' for everything, and 'exceeding' for reading and writing. I wondered if she'd get it for art and imagination (which as you know she is very strong on) but the teacher said some of the things they now have to do to get 'exceeding' are so, so hard that she couldn't quite award it. So I really wouldn't worry about getting hardly any - it's merely a reflection of the difficulty of some of the new targets. You know your DD is doing really well for her age, and the school knows this and should teach appropriately next year.

Neither the old or new system is linked to NC levels whatsoever... our teacher made that VERY clear. So if the children have the skills (through learning at home, or being stretched in class) to have reached a NC level 1 or 2, they might well tell you off the cuff (they did with my DD1 when she had 2Bs at the end of Reception - during the mornings she was taught with year 1) but I would not expect these to be mentioned on the report because there's no facility to report it, as such...

Wafflenose Tue 09-Jul-13 20:23:27

Are you sure they were not giving out last year's EYFS levels as well as this year's to make an easier comparison for parents? They shouldn't be compared anyway, but is it possible? Because ALL schools know that the changeover happened last September. In any case, I don't see it as teaching a different curriculum at all... just a different way of assessing the same thing, with harder targets.

simpson Tue 09-Jul-13 20:33:55

DD's teacher said today that there are things (especially in numeracy) that was not on the old EYFS system.

The teacher also said the EYFS Head re-marked all the exceeding marks because they were not a level 2C.

I have not spoken to EYFS Head yet as she is part time.

All year I have been told DD has been assessed on the old EYFS and the teacher even showed it to me at parents eve.

I knew that they should have been using the new one from Sept but just assumed they would stick with the same one (however naughty that is) all year, not suddenly change it in July (cynical side of me wonders if its because Ofsted were in last week).

I was not expecting NC levels in her report as NC levels is nothing to do with EYFS which is why I can't understand the level 2 comment (for exceeding).

I mean, to have 90 kids with no exceeding (apart from DD's one) is not right is it? confused

Teachers and HT's comments in her report "X has exceeded all academic expectations this school year" and then all levels (except 1 are expected).

Wafflenose Tue 09-Jul-13 20:38:55

I take the point about the maths and the 2C thing, which are blatently wrong.

But to give one 'Exceeding' and to say she is exceeding (without the capital e, so to speak) are not mutually exclusive. Yes, DC can be well ahead, without meeting every single one of the new impossible targets. I'd tackle the Head about the old targets/ 2C thing. But in terms of curriculum, there's not a massive difference. In both my children's Reception years, it was free flow and structured play, with some ICT, PE, group reading and phonics lessons. Maths consisted of counting, learning about shapes and ordering. If they did any time or money, it consisted of playing with clocks and coins. I don't think there was anything formal.

Wafflenose Tue 09-Jul-13 20:39:39

I meant impossible!

Periwinkle007 Tue 09-Jul-13 20:40:14

well that sentence sums it up.

there is definitely something wrong if the EYFS head has remarked all of them because they were not a 2c and I think that definitely needs clarifying and justifying to be honest.

I would be surprised at only 1 exceeds out of 90 children on 17 areas so 1/1530!

mrz Tue 09-Jul-13 20:43:11

New Early Learning Goal
Children count reliably with numbers from one to 20, place them in order and say which number is one more or one less than a given number. Using quantities and objects, they add and subtract two single-digit numbers and count on or back to find the answer. They solve problems, including doubling, halving and sharing.

1. Says some number names in familiar contexts, such as nursery rhymes.
2. Counts reliably up to three everyday objects.
3. Counts reliably up to six everyday objects.
4. Says number names in order.
5. Recognises numerals 1 to 9.
6. Counts reliably up to ten everyday objects.
7. Orders numbers, up to ten.
8. Uses developing mathematical ideas and methods to solve practical problems.
9. Recognises, counts, orders, writes and uses numbers up to 20.

1. Responds to the vocabulary involved in addition and subtraction in rhymes and games.
2. Recognises differences in quantity when comparing sets of objects.
3. Finds one more or one less from a group of up to five objects
4. Relates addition to combining two groups.
5. Relates subtraction to taking away.
6. In practical activities and discussion, begins to use the vocabulary involved in adding and subtracting.
7. Finds one more or one less than a number from one to ten.
8. Uses developing mathematical ideas and methods to solve practical problems.
9. Uses a range of strategies for addition and subtraction, including some mental recall of number bonds.

caffeinated Tue 09-Jul-13 20:44:20

But 2c would be exceeding for the end of year 1 so that's ridiculous.

Wafflenose Tue 09-Jul-13 20:45:58

I wonder if their choice of term, 'Exceeding' is part of the problem. Maybe they should have called it "Absolutely exceptional" or "Highly unusual" or something...

simpson Tue 09-Jul-13 20:46:35


I guess I am concerned that there is other stuff that has not been covered that I don't know about.

I am not worried about it as I know a lot is re-covered in yr1 but just cross with the school who have not been teaching what they should have iyswim.

As you know DD's teacher is truly fab and DD has had an amazing reception year but I just want to get my facts right before tackling EYFS Head who I have had "issues" with before <<sigh>>

There is a G&T group in reading (apparently - I found out today) and they do guided reading together at stage 8/9 and not one of them (apart from DD) got exceeding and then there are kids who are on book band 2/3 also on expecting confused

simpson Tue 09-Jul-13 20:49:16

Well, DD can do all those numeracy things (and more) so am now even more confused....

simpson Tue 09-Jul-13 20:50:58

Wafflenose - I do agree and think that there should be 2 levels above expected, one that is very rare and one that says a child is ahead of the expected level iyswim.

mrz Tue 09-Jul-13 20:51:15

Level 1
count up to 10 objects, read, write numbers to 10, order numbers to 10,
begin to use the fraction, one-half, understand addition as finding the total of two or more sets of objects, understand subtraction as ‘taking away’ objects from a set and finding how many are left, add and subtract numbers of objects to 10, begin to know some addition facts,
solve addition/subtraction problems involving up to 10 objects,

simpson Tue 09-Jul-13 20:54:02

Wafflenose - my annoyance is because possibly one little thing could be stopping DD being exceeding, which I am not so bothered about, what I am bothered about is that it is picked up mid July because they have been using the old system and its too late to do anything about it...


Wafflenose Tue 09-Jul-13 20:54:59

I agree Simpson. But there isn't - if the child has completed all the targets, they now get 'expected', whereas they might have got an 8 or 9 before. (I'm NOT saying you can compare the numbers, because you really can't. The teacher explained it all to me pretty well.)

They can be able to do far, far more, and will still get 'expected'. To get 'exceeding', they have to achieve everything on some seemingly very difficult, secret list. Or at least it's secret in our school. The teacher didn't show it to me!

Alibabaandthe40nappies Tue 09-Jul-13 20:55:14

simpson I think your school have marked very harshly, on the basis of what you say about the reading.

Wafflenose Tue 09-Jul-13 20:56:33

To answer your last post... please do find out if that's what's actually happened. Maybe I want to think the best, but I do wonder if any school could have been so dim as to do that.

simpson Tue 09-Jul-13 20:56:37

Mrz - if you had a child in your reception class who was on a level 1, would you say that had exceeded EYFS?

Also DD's teacher admitted she cannot assess on NC levels as she has never had to so would not be able to assess a 2C confused

Wafflenose Tue 09-Jul-13 20:58:33

There must be lots of Reception children who could achieve a Level 1. Particularly a 1c. But as it marks totally different things, I'm not sure they would necessarily get 'Exceeding' in the new system.

I will shut up now!

AbbyR1973 Tue 09-Jul-13 20:58:54

Only getting 1 exceeding out of 90 children sounds odd doesn't it- when you look at the report of the pilot it seems most areas had 10-20% exceeding with numeracy and writing being among the lower areas. If you took a really conservative estimate of 5% exceedings then out of 90 children there should have been 80 exceedings given out for the various areas(90x17x5%)
I reckon something has gone wrong at your school Simpson especially if DD was given exceeding then had it taken back again. I would question it. I imagine there is an advantage to the school of having fewer exceedings if they are showing progress at KS1... does anyone know are EYFS levels used to predict progress at kS1 sats?

DS got 10 exceedings incl numeracy I had a parents meeting with the teacher and she said he can order numbers to 100, count in 2s and10's and work out different ways to make 10p from coins etc (actually he can do more than this but this is what they have actually tested him on.) I don't think he has been "taught" money at school but has a money box at home and spends HOURS obsessing over how much is in it... maybe he will be an accountant!!

simpson Tue 09-Jul-13 21:00:22

I agree wafflenose but if they haven't been using that secret list how can the child exceed it?

I do suspect I am going to get fobbed off though...

There are a lot of unhappy parents especially of kids who they have been told are doing fine and then got all emerging....

simpson Tue 09-Jul-13 21:02:14

Wafflenose - don't shut up, the more POV I get the better!!

I was told back in December she was a 2B in reading (now 2A) and a 1A in writing (not sure now - but obviously not a 2C wink).

simpson Tue 09-Jul-13 21:04:02

Abby - HT told me a couple of months ago that DD's targets for KS1 are already set...

Wafflenose Tue 09-Jul-13 21:04:46

Well you obviously need to get to the bottom of it. But ultimately, it WON'T matter for your DD. She will have targets within Level 2 for reading next term, and possibly writing and maths too. None of this is going to matter in September. They will take her on from where she is, and have to make sure she makes the right amount of progress.

mrz Tue 09-Jul-13 21:04:50

As you can see the expectations for the new EYFS are higher than the expectations for level 1 ... for level 1 a child needs to work with numbers to 10 for expected level in EYFS numbers to 20 hmm

Periwinkle007 Tue 09-Jul-13 21:06:11

well why do they have exceeds then if it is so unlikely a child is actually going to get it - they should just have

can't do it yet
can do it but might only just be able to or could be able to do it in 4 languages whilst standing on their head making pancakes

ie it really doesn't tell people anything except which children haven't quite got to grips with the basics yet which most teachers could probably have just assessed by spending a couple of days observing life in the classroom.

simpson Tue 09-Jul-13 21:06:44

Sorry MRZ blush

I know DD's target (EYFS) was numbers to 20.

It just makes me lose faith with the school a bit, that's why it's bothering me.

Periwinkle007 Tue 09-Jul-13 21:07:19

hmm so thats fun then Mrz. you poor teachers must wonder what is coming then as that makes no sense...

mrz Tue 09-Jul-13 21:08:52

No it doesn't make sense but we may be getting a new EYFS soon confused

AbbyR1973 Tue 09-Jul-13 21:10:23

Simpson... the school's progress indicators are going to look rather marvellous if most of the group are emerging at end of EYFS and then go on to get an average 2B or more? Maybe I'm a bit cynical!!
I have done a bit of reading and haven't seem anything about money or time being mentioned... In Mrz list for exceeding- working with numbers to 20 it doesn't seem to say much about time and money?

Wafflenose Tue 09-Jul-13 21:20:51

Love this, Periwinkle:

can't do it yet
can do it but might only just be able to or could be able to do it in 4 languages whilst standing on their head making pancakes

You have summed up the three categories pretty well. At least, as our teacher explained them.

simpson Tue 09-Jul-13 21:25:36

Abby - me neither but this is what the class teacher said.

I too have my cynical head on, but am sure the school will deny it!

I have a placement in a reception class (not DC school) and they have covered money when they learnt about pirates and then pirates dug for treasure. They had work sheets with various coins in a purse and had to add them up.

Don't know about whether they have covered time though...

tiredbutnotweary Tue 09-Jul-13 21:41:11

Ok, I hope this works:

FAQs on EYFS Profile assessment and moderation in 2013 – 2

I'm copying and pasting the whole FAQ but it is the final sentence that is key:

Should an LA inform their schools of the number of children expected to attain the expected or exceeding level of learning and development?
It would not be appropriate for any LA to give indications of the levels of attainment which may or may not be attained by any child/cohort at the end of the year. Schools should base their assessments on all the evidence available for each unique child.

Neither should any additional prerequisite (such as a child must be at KS1 L2 to be awarded exceeding) be applied to any TA judgement against an ELG.

This is what a school should do to determine exceeding:

Where a child’s development exceeds that set out as that expected at the end of the EYFS, attainment should be recorded within the EYFS Profile as being at the exceeding level for that ELG.
To judge whether a child’s learning and development is exceeding, practitioners should use the best fit model and be confident that the child has moved beyond the expected level.
Practitioners should:
• consider the Key Stage 1 attainment targets and level descriptors;
• refer to exceeding descriptors (sourced from the Tickell review) which are provided in Annex 2 of this handbook; and
• discuss with Year 1 teachers whether to deem a child exceeding in any ELG.

For a comparison of the expected, exceeding and NC L1 requirements see here:

Wafflenose Tue 09-Jul-13 21:50:36

Thank you for sharing the list which appeared to be 'secret' in our school!

They are expecting a lot now, aren't they? No wonder so many children aren't at the 'expected' level - as far as I can tell in our school, the setup of the class and the teaching don't appear to have changed, but the children are expected to demonstrate so much more!

I think I can see now how my DD who's incredibly imaginative and artistic didn't exceed expectations here... it's all about reflecting on the thought processes, explaining how she created things and how art can be changed, comparing different ideas and pieces of work, and discussing the strengths of others... heck.

Periwinkle007 Tue 09-Jul-13 21:58:29

yeah just the sort of art critic skills a reception child will have!

I think they have missed the point of it though, I mean exceeding shouldn't BE completely impossible, it shouldn't be things they can't possibly have been taught or had the opportunity to develop or in the case of the odd few who might have, the opportunity to demonstrate. I mean how many reception classes sit and discuss art like that? do they? really? how would a teacher know if a child COULD do that in many cases.

tiredbutnotweary Tue 09-Jul-13 22:08:11

I think mrz posted the expected descriptor for maths, to be exceeding you need this too:

Numbers: Children estimate a number of objects and check quantities by counting up to 20. They solve practical problems that involve combining groups of 2, 5 or 10, or sharing into equal groups.

In our school they are struggling to give some children expected in maths due to the doubling, halving and sharing that is in mrz post. But that's because they are approaching the assessment with a tick box mind set - it's supposed to be best fit - the profile handbook clearly says a child doesn't need to meet every requirement of a goal to the same level ....

simpson Tue 09-Jul-13 22:14:59

What does "using key features of narrative" mean? (In writing)

I agree some of them are pretty tough for 5 yr olds ie managing friendships, art & design.

But some of them seem basic to me ie listening & speaking.

Wafflenose Tue 09-Jul-13 22:16:04

Agreed again, Peri! She just turned 5 six weeks ago! I don't think they go into that kind of discussion at all. She has just won the House Art Competition for her age group though, so she is really happy, and I don't actually care! What I'm really proud of is the fact that she is bang on target socially and emotionally, having started school verging on Selective Mutism, shy, overly sensitive, throwing toddler tantrums, and generally very immature. In this respect, Reception has been brilliant.

Ultimately it probably doesn't matter too much what scores they are given, as long as they're learning, but I can see why people will be upset. Teacher has reassured me DD2 is bright (in a nice, solid, above average way - she's not G&T as far as I can tell) but her scores make her look average. And lots of DC who are doing perfectly well are going to look like they're not!

Wafflenose Tue 09-Jul-13 22:17:17

Oops, I meant I don't care about her level, I obviously do care that she has put a lot of effort into her picture and won a prize for it!

tiredbutnotweary Tue 09-Jul-13 22:21:57

To elaborate on this point a bit further, I don't think the problem lies in the descriptors so much as some LAs / schools deciding that every criterion must be met to meet expected or exceeding. It IS NOT supposed to work like that.

A best fit (as described in the handbook) is supposed to be which of these descriptors best fits this child for the majority of their work / output / discussion. The decision of the best fit is also supposed to include evidence from other sources including parents. Of course, in Periwinkle's case, how could any parent support their child in achieving these goals if all year they've been supplied different and defunct goals? I'd be hopping mad.

I think the reason for the big hike in the EYFS and another reason some LAs are being very conservative is that the new national curriculum is also tougher and any exceedings now should equate to L5s / 6s for a curriculum that isn't even in place yet for demonstrating progress. I would find this more palatable if all schools / LAs were taking the same approach - but they're not.

Wafflenose Tue 09-Jul-13 22:24:37

DD2's teacher was definitely of the impression that every criterion had to be met. I have now read the documents, and can see this isn't right. Hopefully as things settle down, it will all become a bit more consistent... maybe.

Periwinkle007 Tue 09-Jul-13 22:27:08

nah they will change it again then Wafflenose.

Wafflenose Tue 09-Jul-13 22:27:37

I was just thinking that!

Periwinkle007 Tue 09-Jul-13 22:31:09

Wafflenose - we might have already had this conversation but have you got the James Mayhew - Katie in the art gallery books? your daughter would love them

Wafflenose Tue 09-Jul-13 22:33:19

No, I have never heard of them. Thanks - I will look them up!

Wafflenose Tue 09-Jul-13 22:36:19

Oh wow, thank you so much! I have had a look at the preview pages on Amazon, and they look great. She will be able to read them by herself, and they have 10 for £9.99 from The Book People. They'll be right up her street! grin

Periwinkle007 Tue 09-Jul-13 22:36:32

they are lovely books - about 13 of them I think, introduce lots of famous works of art through nice stories.

Periwinkle007 Tue 09-Jul-13 22:37:42

ah good - you have found them.

Wafflenose Tue 09-Jul-13 22:44:25

Yes! The £9.99 offer is no longer, sadly. But they still have them quite cheaply. I will get her a couple to start with, and see how she gets on. She reads and does art all day long, and says she wants to make wedding dresses for a living when she is older, aaw! I can picture her doing something like that.

simpson Tue 09-Jul-13 22:44:43

Peri - have you had your DD's report yet?

tiredbutnotweary Tue 09-Jul-13 23:15:52

I meant in Simpson's case, not Periwinkle's - sorry blush

noneshallsleep2 Tue 09-Jul-13 23:40:23

tired Thanks for that link to the Gloucs site - it makes the most sense of anything have read on the whole expecting / exceeding topic!

simpson Tue 09-Jul-13 23:41:29

Tired - I agree, I have been told DD's NC levels are set for yr2 SATS and they are very high. The cynical side of me wonders if this why why her levels have been lowered. Especially after looking at your link, I think it even more....

She is very strong in literacy so speaking, listening, writing and reading (all the areas she was given exceeding in originally) but to me she is not exceeding in numeracy although can count in 2s,5s and 10s, halve, double etc etc, it just does not float her boat....

simpson Tue 09-Jul-13 23:42:52

I wish I had a printer and I would print it out to show ram somewhere not nice to the EYFS Head on Thursday.

Periwinkle007 Wed 10-Jul-13 07:05:08

no no reports here yet. i would hope for an exceeds on reading but otherwise i think she wil probably get expecteds. I think she ought to get a couple more exceeds but not sure she will.

simpson Wed 10-Jul-13 22:25:48

Spoke to the teacher that I work with on a wed (not at my DC school) and she told me the LEA had a meeting in Feb and told schools that "exceeding" equals mid year 2 level. Which schools are interpreting as a 2C.

However there was another meeting in April which lowered it to end of yr1 which the school I work in (1day a week) now use a 1A for exceeding.

They asked the yr1 teachers to assess the written work.

But she did say that a child who has exceeding in reading should also have exceeding for speaking and listening too otherwise it's a very odd profile.

Have meeting at my DC school tomorrow....

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