Acceptable language in Y5

(44 Posts)
ninah Mon 10-Jun-13 17:25:36

ds has started a new school and has settled in really well except for a couple of things .. he is worried about a classmate who he says is being bullied. When I've raised it (I work there too) staff say, oh well, he winds them up. It seems to be happening all the time.
ds has come home with some choice new vocab. Wanker, fair enough, but also spaz??? and asking what bum rape is?
It's bit awkward raising issues as parent/teacher but I am going to, for the 's' word alone. what I want to know is what kind of language is within accepted parameters of pre-adolescent playground chat?

FadedSapphire Mon 10-Jun-13 17:58:43

IMy children are younger but all those words unacceptable to me and I would raise issue of playground talk to school. Nasty words/ bullying words/ hurtful words.

Feenie Mon 10-Jun-13 18:04:22

I teach Y5 - none of those words are in any way acceptable. You're right to speak to the teacher.

FranSanDisco Mon 10-Jun-13 18:04:26

I think it needs to be raised. I work at primary level and in the staff room recently one of the teachers referred to some of the children as retards. I was totally shocked and pulled her on it saying it was not acceptable in this day and age (old fogey that I am) but because her pre-teen children use the word she thought she was being 'with it'. She did apologise but ignorance is no excuse.

ninah Mon 10-Jun-13 18:17:38

I know it has to be done. I think it needs to be done in writing. Am not going to be popular, but that's nothing new sad

I have children in Y8, Y6 and Y4.

I'm sure the eldest has heard the word 'wanker' by now, probably Y7 if not Y6.

The other two are completely outside the range of what I would be expecting them to hear in the playground.

ninah Mon 10-Jun-13 18:23:41

that's what I thought 3b, I haven't heard the s word since the 70s
I was shocked

OldBeanbagz Mon 10-Jun-13 18:26:57

I have DC in Y6 & Y3 and am pretty sure they've not hear the words spaz or bum rape. Maybe Y6 would have heard the word wanker but not at school (or at home for that matter).

Was really sad to find out that one of the girls in the Y6 class used the word 'Paki' and am in two minds as to whether i ought to say something about that.

ninah Mon 10-Jun-13 18:29:03

yup, that's another one they use, it seems habitually vile tbh

Wellthen Mon 10-Jun-13 18:34:33

I don't think this would be seen as acceptable by any primary but if it is playground chat then there isn't much they can do except ask children to report it. Still raise it though as the teachers can do a stern reminder of the serious consequences of this language.

Feenie Mon 10-Jun-13 18:36:25

Including recording the use of the word 'Paki' as a racist incident.

Dededum Mon 10-Jun-13 18:40:07

Yr 5 - keeps using the phrase 'rape face' - nice
Yr 7 - bitch slap, bitch,

Very grim,

ninah Mon 10-Jun-13 18:40:31

children will not report there is a strong anti 'snitch' culture, ds is terrified to say anything to anyone
I don't want to have to explain 'bum rape', and I don't want these other vile terms normalised

Feenie Mon 10-Jun-13 18:42:13

The school need to work urgently on that culture, it's not on.

I teach some challenging yr 5s- not heard any of those phrases. I think it needs to be brought up.

FadedSapphire Mon 10-Jun-13 19:10:34

What is school like re bullying? Should have active policy.
Asemblies, PHSE etc should cover such appalling language and the implications of it. A culture of not snitching and your child being terrified of 'telling' sets off major alarm bells to me about this school.

ninah Mon 10-Jun-13 19:17:40

policies are out of date
ds was bullied at his previous school, hence moved - he is not being bullied himself at this school but recognises the signs hence his upset on behalf of other dc

FadedSapphire Mon 10-Jun-13 19:21:59

Pull school up on it Ninah if you feel able. Check website for anti bullying policy- should be there. Did school have anti bullying week? School need to be on top of this.

BabiesAreLikeBuses Mon 10-Jun-13 19:34:14

I agree am a y5 teacher, in ten years i haven't had them use any of these. They are generally aware of the f word but won't use it just come to me and say 'so and so in y6 said the f word'... They know we contact parents and remove them from the playground for this. Staff reaction at yours sounds worrying....
I would also question where they got spaz and bum rape from, the latter could be an older sibling but not heard the former for years and years, it's not a typical insult even with teenagers in this area...

pillow1999 Mon 10-Jun-13 19:42:17

My DS yr 6.... knows all these words and more......... he comes home and reports what is being said and i explain what everything means and what is acceptable.

Most kids would not say any of these things in front of a teacher therefore I dont believe a teacher could really do anything even if told.

I have told the teacher of the sex talk so she is aware when she does the sex ed............ to prepare her for the ''questions''

FadedSapphire Mon 10-Jun-13 19:45:20

I think if children are calling each other 'spaz' and 'wanker' etc at school it IS school's job to pick up on it. Language like that to other children is at best unkind behaviour and at worst bullying. Also if used flippantly without malice child still needs to be told utterly unacceptable.

BabiesAreLikeBuses Mon 10-Jun-13 19:55:35

A lot depends on the school's culture. If language like this is used in our playground i tend to have ten kids ready to see me at 1.30 ranging from the telltale to the genuinely upset ones. If it isn't tackled then it is condoned. Not a great message for a ten year old.

ninah Mon 10-Jun-13 20:01:41

the only policy on the web is the admissions policy hmm

FadedSapphire Mon 10-Jun-13 20:31:10

Mmm.. not sure what ofsted would think of such slackness ninah!

ninah Mon 10-Jun-13 20:33:28

they thought it required improvement ...

Feenie Mon 10-Jun-13 20:36:44

Most kids would not say any of these things in front of a teacher therefore I dont believe a teacher could really do anything even if told.

If 10 kids say they heard it, with reactions ranging as described by BabiesAreLikeBuses, then there is a lot we can do.

Periwinkle007 Mon 10-Jun-13 20:46:57

I would be seriously unhappy if my kids heard that at school

pillow1999 Tue 11-Jun-13 07:38:05

Feenie...... If ten kids said they heard it I agree, but nobody want to be a dobber do they at that age? No teacher can stop what kids say to each other........

I am just glad ds tells me lots of stuff so i can put him right, although i thought i would not be doing this kind of chat for a couple of years.

My ds was very unhappy for a while with the constant talk of sex but we are getting there ...slowly........ massive learning curve for him [and me].

I did start a thread about how to handle it a while ago it has gone now but got lots of good and comforting responses.

musicalfamily Tue 11-Jun-13 09:39:38

Wow that's truly shocking.

My eldest only in Y3, but she does play with Y5s and Y6s a lot and I have never heard any words like that either in the playground, at home or from friends.

If it was me, I would urgently raise it. A child using the word "rape" is pretty disturbing, I would want to understand the context in which it was being used?!

Elibean Tue 11-Jun-13 10:13:05

dd is in Y4, in a fairly mixed class, and would know none of those.

She is aware of f, s and b words but knows not to use them. Her concept of all of them reminds me of when she was 4 or 5 and thought 'bum' and 'poo' were shocking and funny, and ooooooh rude, iyswim.

The words that really upset her are 'bitch' which she has heard now, as a 'very bad word about girls', and 'gay' used inappropriately as an insult. That really annoys her, quite rightly.

Good luck, OP, I hope the school responds well to your concerns!

Elibean Tue 11-Jun-13 10:14:33

pillow, at dds' school they might tackle something like bad language by giving a whole class 'talk', or an assembly, etc

That way you don't need 'proof', iyswim.

OldBeanbagz Tue 11-Jun-13 11:00:50

ninah have you reported the language?

I spoke to my DD's teacher this morning who agreed that the word 'paki' was not acceptable and that she would cover bad/unacceptable language into a lesson this week.

MadeOfStarDust Tue 11-Jun-13 13:04:20

we have never tolerated bad language at home - sexual or divisive, but my Y6 DD is coming home asking what things mean - the latest was "tea-bagging" - not sure I want THAT conversation..... no thanks to Y6 boys!! "It's some sort of sex act darling" is as far as I went.....

<mainly as I'm not entiiiiiirely sure, blush and I know better than to use google!!!>

Dededum Tue 11-Jun-13 14:30:03

Most of the language comes from Utube videos, playing online computer games.

When they use it, more of a problem with yr 7, sometimes they ask me what it means and I explain that it is unacceptable and why.
Boys who have older brothers are difficult because they here language through siblings.

Its not the language that shocks me as such, as the objectification of woman and general pornographic content. That is the real issue. Kids hear language, they experiment, the boundaries are put in place and they mostly respect them.

Bumbez Tue 11-Jun-13 20:00:45

Dd in year 5 had a lesson devoted to swear words not that long ago. It was in response to words being bandied about at each other.

Her teacher got the children to write down every word they knew and the most derogatory insult they could think of, which all got put onto a white board.

I was a bit shock when I found out. Dds knowledge was quite mild - bloody and bugger, she knows a lot worse now including cunt sad

To be fair to her teacher I think the idea was to teach them the true meaning of the words and that some words are unacceptable.

pillow1999 Tue 11-Jun-13 20:14:40

bumbez.............. That is the prob with having a lesson on something that some of the children know nothing about. At the end of the lesson they know more than some parents might want them to know at that stage.

Did you not have any say in this lesson?

ninah Tue 11-Jun-13 21:07:47

yes, I reported, and yes it is being taken seriously. Thanks for all the support and opinions!

BabiesAreLikeBuses Tue 11-Jun-13 22:51:30

bumbez i am shock that your teacher wrote up those words or thought it appropriate for everyone to know them! No WAY i would do that! And if i did i would def get letters of complaint and hauled in front of the govs a my school.
On the other hand in y6 sex ed we do get them to share all the words they know to describe male and female body parts before agreeing on the scientific ones being used in lessons, usually fairly tame family versions are given such as 'plums' for testicles!

Bumbez Wed 12-Jun-13 23:32:30

Although shocked I'm actually ok with it, dd wouldn't use those words and it led to an interesting discussion about swearing and the purpose of it.

She's only a year away from secondary school and the language coming from there is awfull, we walk by it every day. I feel sad for the children that did know the words, a couple of the girls came up with fishy fanny as an insult.

Dh is a governor nobody has complained.

PastSellByDate Thu 13-Jun-13 03:03:08

Hi ninah:

I think the problem here is you can't control what every child hears and is aware of - or indeed what they repeat at school. Some of this is bravado - showing off that you are aware of things other children aren't - acting older than your age. Typically this kind of thing seems to be the situation where DCs have older siblings in senior school (or indeed older).

There is a boy in DD1's class that clearly is from a quite unstable home environment and his behaviour and language can be seriously odd/ unpleasant at times. He's not a bad kid - he just doesn't have boundaries and acts out at school. I really think it is a plea for help & attention.

Parents have complained. (in this case not me) But the reality is that although things have been said in assembly and class about using appropriate language and serious offenders get to see the Deputy Head or Head - it goes on. There's really no controlling it - other than to insist that whilst in ear shot you don't want to hear it - which I know the staff do.

HTH

pillow1999 Thu 13-Jun-13 07:40:26

pastby.... I agree.

you cannot stop it...... full stop.

You just have to encouraged your kids to come home and ask about words they dont understand and anything that worries the regarding these conversations.

Luckily my son tells me everything and I mean everything, unluckily sometimes he ask the same thing 100 times.

ninah Thu 13-Jun-13 18:57:33

I agree that you can't entirely control what is said/heard. I think that it is important to establish a school culture that is respectful, though, where there are boundaries. Ds's last school had v low tolerance for this kind of thing. I do not think it is OK that children refer to SEN dc as 'spaz' for example.
An anything goes culture isn't what I expect from a school.

BabiesAreLikeBuses Thu 13-Jun-13 19:21:48

Totally agree that you'll never stop it but adult reaction v important especially at this age when lots seem to be boundary testing. Any teasing of sen kids would be quickly sorted out by our staff and the vast majority of kids would find this repulsive, it's inclusive from day 1.

Feenie Thu 13-Jun-13 20:12:51

Same here.

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