Ks1 sats info please

(55 Posts)
zoomie Sat 06-Apr-13 22:27:15

Hi, any teacher out there that can please help?

If a child achieves a level 2a are they automatically given the level 3 paper to do and would it be given on the same day?
During the sats week is there an order in which type of paper is given first - maths, English then reading?
Also in regards to the level 3 paper how much time is the child given to complete it? i noticed there is quite a large amout to read. Is the child asked to read the whole story first then answer the questions but able to
Refer back or is it completed in sections?

Manchesterhistorygirl Sat 06-Apr-13 22:28:05

Watching with interest. Ds1 is due to do sats too this coming term.

TeamEdward Sat 06-Apr-13 22:30:22

There is no such thing as KS1 SAT week. The grade given to a child is based upon teacher assessment, and not just the tests. If a child is likely to reach a level 3 then they will be given the level 3 paper to start with - it is not good practice to give the Level 2 paper and then expect the child to take another test, as the teacher's other assessments should be able to show at what level the child is working at.

CockyFox Sat 06-Apr-13 22:30:25

My year 2 DS has already done his sats papers, there isn't a set week for key stage one and his teacher said he will be markedon what she has evidence he can do rather than the test. Yr 2 SATs are no biggie.

TeamEdward Sat 06-Apr-13 22:32:55

And the SAT assessments can be done at any time. Many children will have already done them.

Regarding the L3 reading, the children are given as much time as they want, although it is generally accepted that 45 mins is adequate. They are asked to read the story first, then refer back to it as often as they need to when answering the questions.

zoomie Sat 06-Apr-13 22:35:41

My DS was given a level 2 old test paper before the Easter break as practise which was sent home and he achived a 2a (only 2 questions wrong) would he still be given the level 2 for his sat test?

TeamEdward Sat 06-Apr-13 22:40:03

I couldn't say. It would depend on the teacher's other assessments. If your son is consistently working at 2a, then he'd be given the L2 test. If he's working within L3 then they would give him that test.
At the end of Yr2, 2B is the expected grade. So 2a is good!

Feenie Sat 06-Apr-13 22:43:43

The ARA (legal document) states that only one test should be used, but at any time in the year. So it's perfectly possible for a child to sit a test and achieve a 2A, but for the teacher to use that in her assessment to go on to teach level 3 concepts, and for a child to then achieve level 2 later on.

The test is only a small piece of the jigsaw which makes up all of the evidence used to assess a child.

zoomie Sat 06-Apr-13 22:50:43

So if he has been showing the ability of a 2a level he will only be given the level 2 paper ? Even if he achieves a high score he will not be given the opportunity to take the level 3?

simpson Sat 06-Apr-13 22:51:46

DS is now in yr3 and he sat the level 3 papers last year. He did not do the level 3 on the same day (in fact it was a good 2/3 weeks after the other SATS papers, so I assumed they had finished).

zoomie Sat 06-Apr-13 22:52:51

Hi Simpson...did he do the level 2 first?

Feenie Sat 06-Apr-13 22:57:40

He shouldn't, take another paper, according to the rules - the point is that the teacher should be so secure in her judgement that she gives him the right paper in the first place. Depends how she is using them - Y2 children really shouldn't need to do 'mock' papers. If it was me, I would use a test in January and then teach accordingly - so quite possible for a 2A child to be on track at 2A then attain level 3 using teacher assessment later on.

TeamEdward Sat 06-Apr-13 23:01:49

It's not about accieving a high score in a test, but assessing the capabilities of the child through a whole range of texts and writing styles.

TeamEdward Sat 06-Apr-13 23:02:01


simpson Sat 06-Apr-13 23:05:20

All I know he is he did some "tests" according to him and everyone in the class did them and then a few weeks later did some more "tests" when not everyone did them and according to DS they were harder.

He did level 3 in reading, writing and numeracy. (I found out afterwards).

I don't know how he did in the tests (and not bothered really) we were just given his assessment scores at the end of the year.

Feenie Sat 06-Apr-13 23:05:30

TeamEdward is right - it's a tool for a whole assessment conversation, not a be all and end all.

simpson Sat 06-Apr-13 23:09:03

DS is now in yr3 and does assessments fairly regularly (the kids are told) and his teacher told me that one assessment he wrote an amazing story but was down marked (in the test only, not her assessment) because he should have written a report instead of a story . DS said he got bored grin

Anyway, my point is that it does not matter too much at this age how they do in individual tests (assessments) as the teacher uses a variety of ways to assess the child iyswim.

amidaiwish Sat 06-Apr-13 23:14:42

DD1 (2years ago) def did both level 2&3 papers in maths.

A handful got taken out to do the "rock star hard maths" hmm a few days after the level 2 paper.

zoomie Sat 06-Apr-13 23:21:42

I just wonder how it works for a child who has shown recent improvement

zoomie Sat 06-Apr-13 23:24:02

Rock star hard maths
is that a level 4?

ipadquietly Sat 06-Apr-13 23:37:16

zoomie Feenie told you how it works for a child who has shown recent improvement:
''So it's perfectly possible for a child to sit a test and achieve a 2A, but for the teacher to use that in her assessment to go on to teach level 3 concepts, and for a child to then achieve level 3 later on.''
(Think she meant 'level 3 later on'! smile)

You are told the teacher's assessment of all your dc's class work at the end of the year. This assessment, and the evidence that accompanies it, can over-ride the level they get in the tests.

zoomie Sat 06-Apr-13 23:53:05

Got you ipadquietly! smile

simpson Sat 06-Apr-13 23:53:39

Well DS finished yr1 on a 1a but just clicked with numeracy in yr2 and still did the level 3 paper.

I am pretty sure he did both (in numeracy, reading and writing) but am not 100% sure.

There was one child who was very good at numeracy and was off sick when the level 3 was taken by the other kids. He of course was levelled at his teachers assessment (as it should be). Don't know if he was able to sit the L3 later on.

simpson Sat 06-Apr-13 23:54:43

Sorry iPad, that was not in response to your post, just x posted grin

Feenie Sun 07-Apr-13 00:08:43

I did mean level 3 - thanks for clarifying, ipadquietly.

Too much wine grin

TeamEdward Sun 07-Apr-13 00:21:15

If a child misses a test then, as long as the teacher's other assessments are secure, they may not need to take it at a later time although most schools do fit it in somewhere!

simpson Sun 07-Apr-13 00:45:32

Teamedward - exactly that's what I mean. The teacher should have a good grasp of what a child can do (according to class work etc).

Don't think the child took the test later, but cannot be 100% sure.

sunnyday123 Sun 07-Apr-13 16:50:59

My dd has recently sat a maths mock sat paper and the teacher said she got a 2a too but is still only sitting the level 2 paper. She said this was to stop unnecessary pressure at only year 2 as its raises expectations much higher afterwards. She is sitting level 3 for reading though so presume the teacher thinks her maths is not as strong.

To be fair I have given her a few maths mocks at both level 2 and level 3 and IMO the level 3 is a massive jump and dd didnt know that many and did get frustrated! I've stuck to level 2 as I don't want her to lose confidence unnecessarily as I always hated maths and don't want her to be the same!

Feenie Sun 07-Apr-13 16:56:20

To be fair I have given her a few maths mocks at both level 2 and level 3


sunnyday123 Sun 07-Apr-13 17:04:33

Her teacher actually asked me to! to get her used to the style of questioning generally (not as sats prep as such - more to recognise and use numeracy within a worded question)

tbh she can do 1 in 15 mins so its not a big deal and prob less time etc than people who use maths websites etc which dd doesn't use.

mrz Sun 07-Apr-13 17:14:16

one question one test one?

sunnyday123 Sun 07-Apr-13 17:20:12

15 mins to do one maths test paper at level 2. I've only seen the 2003 & 2004 papers though (about 24 questions on each?). No chance with the level 3 which I thought seemed a much bigger jump - I would have expected a more gradual increase?

Some of the topics on the level 3 haven't been covered I don't think as dd didnt have a clue and looked genuinely bewildered! She has struggled with using maths in every day worded questions which is why the teacher suggested looking at the papers ( not to get her to revise etc)

mrz Sun 07-Apr-13 17:38:41

I'm lost for words

Feenie Sun 07-Apr-13 17:42:40


mrz Sun 07-Apr-13 17:45:00

it doesn't often happen feenie

seeker Sun 07-Apr-13 17:49:45

Why are you doing this?

sunnyday123 Sun 07-Apr-13 17:50:22

Seriously why the sarcasm? There's threads on here everyday of loads of people doing extra papers, maths games etc, reading everyday etc but my dd does none of these! We do the very bare minimum ...her teacher asked me to get her to do something to improve her maths and you clearly have something to say?

I was responding to op's question earlier about whether her child was sitting the level 2 or 3 paper and explaining my situation as its clearly the same.

mrz Sun 07-Apr-13 17:52:03

I'm speechless at a teacher not knowing her pupil sunnyday

seeker Sun 07-Apr-13 17:52:42

Doing something to improve her maths is one thing. Setting her mock SATs is something completely different.

sunnyday123 Sun 07-Apr-13 17:57:40

I'm surprised at the shock- dd is in year 2 and my eldest and there isnt a parent in her class who isn't supporting maths at home with mock papers etc? As my first i have nothing to compare it too so i guess I've "followed the crowd" - especially since her teacher recommended it. I'm sure most parents do it but just won't admit it on here smile

I don't see any difference with givingahs worksheets at home - its not like she knows there sats etc?

Whether its right or wrong does not justify the judgement though!

Feenie Sun 07-Apr-13 17:58:43

There is absolutely no need to do mock papers at 7 years old, either in school or out of school. The style of questions should be covered within every day lessons, and should not be any different to the work your child does day in, day out.

The ARA is the legal document which sets out the rules for test administration, and states that a child should only do one test - for a reason! The point of assessment at Key Stage 1 is to assess what a child can do across the board - the tests are a very small part of the evidence required. It beggars belief that a teacher would not only advocate the repeated use of past papers with a 7 year old, but actually asked you to do it at home. It shows a huge lack of understanding of the assessment requirements, and is truly atrocious practice.

mrz Sun 07-Apr-13 18:03:14

Apart from the "no need" point if your daughter can complete a test in 15 mins her teacher doesn't know her very well if she thought she needed practise papers.

ipadquietly Sun 07-Apr-13 18:18:19

Does your dd go to an infant school, sunny - just YR and KS1?

plainjayne123 Sun 07-Apr-13 20:12:51

I agree with Sunny about all the horror of doing SATs papers whilst being fine with doing all the other is stuff is complete nonesense. Mrz, Feenie, etc are fine with doing everything to help children at home apart from doing SATs papers. Is this something you have picked up from the school staff room? I suggest the horror is stopped, everyone does it, there is absolutely no reason not to, the children will not be traumatised by whatever it is you think may be harmful from doing this. I have found it very beneficial to my dd yr 2.

freetrait Sun 07-Apr-13 20:39:31

Is this an independent school? It seems strange. In what way is it beneficial plainjayne?

mrz Sun 07-Apr-13 20:41:36

In what way was it beneficial plainjayne?

Personally I can't see any benefits, true it isn't harmful either just totally and utterly pointless

ipadquietly Sun 07-Apr-13 20:46:48

This is like groundhog day.

mrz Sun 07-Apr-13 20:51:51

I find it really interesting, teaching as I do in a school where parents wouldn't consider using past papers or WHS study books for a second

simpson Sun 07-Apr-13 21:02:43

Mrz - does your school give out homework?

Feenie Mon 08-Apr-13 00:48:26

We give out homework - learning log style.

The point is, the legal document for assessment only advocates one test per child. For a reason. The purpose of the assessment is never to make 6/7 year old children do past paper after past paper.

Parents may not understand that - but teachers damn well ought to.

Feenie Mon 08-Apr-13 01:00:20
mrz Mon 08-Apr-13 07:36:28

reading books simpson ... about half hear their child read

simpson Mon 08-Apr-13 10:05:23

I was just wondering what the difference would be between doing say maths word problems for homework and doing a few in a KS 1 SATS test iyswim.

mrz Mon 08-Apr-13 13:46:23

I think the point teachers are trying to make is that the KS1 test papers are just there for the teacher's information and don't have the significance that parents seem to believe. The tests can be administered at any point in the school year and some schools choose to do this at the very beginning of the year. Regardless of when individual schools administer the test the level reported will be based on the child's work over the whole year not on the results of a single test.
If a teacher knows (and they should know) where a child has a weakness then that is where the teacher needs to focus support not in asking parents to complete old test papers. Any child who can complete a whole paper in just 15 mins clearly doesn't have problems (which the teacher should already know).

TeamEdward Mon 08-Apr-13 16:00:48

I will admit to sending home past papers, but this was years ago. It was more for the parents benefit than the children, allaying their fears of this terrible test.

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