Practice mock SATs KS1

(71 Posts)
LifeIsBetterInFlipFlops Tue 26-Mar-13 19:14:05

Does anyone download practice SATs tests to do at home with a YR2 pupil?

I'm a parent and would be keen to know whether other parents do this and if any teachers reading this think it a good idea?

Thanks in advance.

MirandaWest Tue 26-Mar-13 19:17:43

Year 2 SATs are teacher assessed. They will do a test which will be part of the evidence for the level given, but this can be performed at any time. Some schools will do tests in all the school at the same time but not necessarily.

Really there is no point in doing practice SATs tests, IMO

Otherworld Tue 26-Mar-13 19:21:34

I agree with MirandaWest. It's about the school assessing. Don't revise. Let the school handle it.

baffledmum Tue 26-Mar-13 19:27:28

Don't revise - utter madness IMO.

I think my ds has been doing mock ones in school. So there's really no need to do them at home, is there?

pointythings Tue 26-Mar-13 21:14:45

Both my DDs came home talking about the fun activity they had done in school that day when they were in Yr2 - no preparation at all. They did do one or two practice ones to get used to the format, but that was it.

Don't sweat it, you'll have plenty of that at KS2...

bubblesinthebath Wed 27-Mar-13 21:59:00

The focus will be on the SAT'S at school, let your school do that side and let your Dc chill when he/she gets home.

bubblesinthebath Wed 27-Mar-13 22:01:05

Didn't read your question properly did I? blush I didn't and don't know anyone else who has.

LifeIsBetterInFlipFlops Thu 28-Mar-13 06:08:15

That's good to hear...thank you everyone.

amidaiwish Thu 28-Mar-13 19:01:40

Really?
Everyone in Dd2's yr2 class are busy doing SATS papers... Not me by the way and was unheard of in dd1s class.
I think a lot more people do practice SATS than you think.

ipadquietly Thu 28-Mar-13 19:03:15

'I think a lot more people do practice SATS than you think.'

Then these children's teachers are not following statutory guidelines in the way they are using the tests.

ouryve Thu 28-Mar-13 19:06:01

I did practice papers with DS1, but only because he has ASD and hadn't been complying with past attempts to test him because he was overwhelmed by the paper - I'd often ended up giving him school tests to do at home were he was less stressed by them.

Having a go at a couple of papers at home is good for bolstering confidence in a child who is nervous, but there's definitely no need to revise. There's not really anything you can revise for, anyhow, as they're pretty broad.

amidaiwish Thu 28-Mar-13 20:29:19

What do you mean ipadquietly?
The teacher hasn't given out the papers.

mrz Thu 28-Mar-13 20:34:57

The tests are only there to support the teacher's assessment of the child's day to day work and it is the teacher's assessment level that is reported not the test levels.
The tests can be given at any point in the year and some schools will have already completed the tests early in the year ...

ipadquietly Thu 28-Mar-13 20:39:18

SATs tests are supposed to be used as assessment tools, to support the teacher's assessments of the children. As such, they should not be regarded as 'important tests', and certainly don't need to be practised.

SATs have been used like this (as support for teachers' assessments) for about 7 or 8 years. Teacher assessment levels are reported at the end of the year, not test results.

These are quotes from the KS1 Reporting and Assessment 2013 booklet, which all Y2 teachers are obliged to read and follow:

'If teacher assessment and task and test results differ, the teacher assessment results should
be reported, provided the judgement is based on an appropriate range of evidence from
work completed in class.'

And even MORE importantly:
'Teachers can use the tasks and tests to inform their assessment judgements at any time
during the year, but children are not to be tested more than once during the year in each
subject or attainment target.'

I'd be getting myself up that school as fast as a rat up a drain-pipe! It's totally unnecessary to stress-out these little children like we used to in the past.

The whole booklet can be downloaded - just google 'KS1 reporting and assessment arrangements 2013'.

At my school, we have already done the SATs tests to use as our mid-year assessment and to help identify weak areas.

LifeIsBetterInFlipFlops Fri 29-Mar-13 05:25:11

As it happens, DS came home with a mock paper yesterday.

I was given his current achievement level a couple of weeks ago and also told what his predicted would be in July. Would these be assessed through sitting SATs papers or are there other ways?

mrz Fri 29-Mar-13 07:01:48

It will be assessed by the teacher on the work he produces day by day in class not by sitting a test.

mrz Fri 29-Mar-13 07:06:25

"Teacher assessment is the main focus for end of Key Stage 1 assessment and reporting and
is carried out as part of teaching and learning.
4.1 Use of tasks and tests
The statutory National Curriculum tasks and tests must be administered to all eligible children who are working at level 1 or above in reading, writing and mathematics. Tasks and tests are designed to help inform the final teacher assessment judgement reported for each child at the end of Key Stage 1.

If teacher assessment and task and test results differ, the teacher ssessment results should be reported, provided the judgement is based on an appropriate range of evidence from work completed in class.
Schools are not obliged to report task or test results separately. However, parents must be allowed access to their child’s results on request."

LifeIsBetterInFlipFlops Fri 29-Mar-13 07:13:44

Thank you mrz

amidaiwish Fri 29-Mar-13 08:34:59

I hear what you're saying but it is NOT the school suggesting parents do practice tests or stressing out the kids. it is the parents!!! The teachers have said there is no need to do any practice at all BUT I am pretty much the only parent I know who isn't (and people probably think I am just denying it). That's my point.

BooksandaCuppa Fri 29-Mar-13 08:44:21

I got your point. If there are materials to buy - and there are - some parents will not be stopped from buying and using them. Nothing the teachers can do to say would probably deter these parents.

ipadquietly Fri 29-Mar-13 12:33:01

I managed to stop them - by telling them that we'd already done the tests! grin

BooksandaCuppa Fri 29-Mar-13 16:16:58

grin

plainjayne123 Fri 29-Mar-13 18:05:06

I did 3 level 3 maths papers with my dd (she loved doing it). She got 13/30 first time, then 21/30 and then 27/30. A bit of practice and some helpful advice from myself, as well spending a bit of time going over the areas she struggled with helped lots. The teacher will not have time to spend so much attention on 1 child. I think I have boosted her confidence and helped a lot. So definitely worth it.

mrz Fri 29-Mar-13 18:10:05

hmm

Feenie Fri 29-Mar-13 18:13:34

Brilliant - so you have boosted her in a very narrow snapshot of the curriculum. Won't help the rest of her teacher assessment in Maths, since the test is a very small part.

If you want to help, why not ask her teacher what you could do at home which would help her with Maths in general? Much more useful.

Flojobunny Fri 29-Mar-13 18:17:39

In year 6, children have been given mock test papers for each subject and told they must do it even if they are sat at the side of a pool. Failure to complete all papers and return them on the first day back (with exception of children off sick) will be disciplined.

plainjayne123 Fri 29-Mar-13 18:20:10

Not at all. I could see which areas she found difficult. A parent can easily know more than teacher I would say. I know how she is doing at school and teacher says no need to so anything. Maths was a little behind English 6 months ago but not now.

Feenie Fri 29-Mar-13 18:22:53

The test paper doesn't cover the whole curriculum, but the teacher assessment does. So your help is targeted at a very small area of the overall assessment.

mrz Fri 29-Mar-13 18:23:48

In Year 6 the tests are externally marked and levels are reported but in KS1 it is the teacher's assessment that is reported not the tests.

I would be very unhappy if a school threatened to discipline a child for being on holiday over Easter.

Feenie Fri 29-Mar-13 18:25:15

My child would not be doing them. Terrible practice - what exactly do they hope to achieve?

plainjayne123 Fri 29-Mar-13 18:28:46

The test paper will cover most areas in the maths curriculum, so you can see which areas they are struggling with and which are easy, eg struggling with measurements or graphs or additions etc, then as a parent you can go over that area again. There's nothing narrow about covering a few areas of the maths curriculum. I agree the teacher will have to observe any improvement for it to count so it would have to be coveted again at school or in a test.

Feenie Fri 29-Mar-13 18:32:04

The test paper will cover most areas in the maths curriculum

No, it doesn't.

I agree the teacher will have to observe any improvement for it to count so it would have to be coveted again at school or in a test.

And if the improvement was only seen in a test, it wouldn't be enough evidence to contribute to a final level.

mrz Fri 29-Mar-13 18:35:45

As feenie says the test papers cover a fraction of the actual maths curriculum so provide a very small snapshot of what the child knows or more importantly doesn't know.

plainjayne123 Fri 29-Mar-13 18:36:10

Of course it does, there will be questions on measures, graphs, shapes, calculations, etc. they maybe big areas but you can see which kind of questions/concepts they find difficult.

Feenie Fri 29-Mar-13 18:37:40

Fgs, no it doesn't! It isn't even designed to, that's not what it is for.

mrz Fri 29-Mar-13 18:39:01

No it doesn't ... a single test can only cover certain aspects of the curriculum a tiny window on what a child needs to know to be awarded the level.

plainjayne123 Fri 29-Mar-13 18:39:56

I have explained why it does whereas you just say it doesn't.

Feenie Fri 29-Mar-13 18:42:22

Have you taught Y2, plainjayne?

mrz Fri 29-Mar-13 18:47:00

But what you are saying is incorrect jayne.
There is much more to the curriculum than the type of questions that appear on the test papers. To include everything a child needs to know the test would need to be many times larger.
Yes the test includes questions that cover one aspect of measure and one aspect of shape and one aspect of data handling and some number work and some calculation work but only a tiny part of the whole level.

mrz Fri 29-Mar-13 18:48:16

If all I had to cover in Y2 was the content of the test I could teach it in half a term.

Feenie Fri 29-Mar-13 18:49:28

And a test which really and truly did cover every aspect of the curriculum would need to be around 150 questions long!

ipadquietly Fri 29-Mar-13 18:53:01

jayne, hasn't it been made plain to you?
The end of year levels in year 2 are based on the teacher's assessment of your child work in class, not the tests.
Even if your dd got all of the questions right in a level 3 test paper, but her teacher had evidence in books that she was working at a 2a, then her final level would be a 2a. The test would be seen as an anomaly, probably due to practice at home.

plainjayne123 Fri 29-Mar-13 18:54:47

But what I am saying is that if they get this one aspect of shape wrong then they are going to get all aspects wrong. Maybe a generalisation but with my dd it has been the case. There are areas stronger than others and the tests can show you this. Certain areas are very easy and she would get them right on any paper and vice versa.

Feenie Fri 29-Mar-13 18:57:28

But what I am saying is that if they get this one aspect of shape wrong then they are going to get all aspects wrong.

So you presumably taught the entire shape curriculum at level 3 to compensate? That's a little unlikely, don't you think?

plainjayne123 Fri 29-Mar-13 18:57:34

I know how it works yes. Were the tests useful to identify weaknesses and improve them - yes.

plainjayne123 Fri 29-Mar-13 18:59:15

The entire shape curriculum isn't that much, quite likely.

Feenie Fri 29-Mar-13 19:00:22

The shape and space curriculum at level 3 is quite a lot. Where are you looking?

plainjayne123 Fri 29-Mar-13 19:02:53

Anyone can get a workbook and work through an area. I do have a first class degree from Oxford and a phd etc so I can manage to find out what a child needs to know to get a 3 in maths in any area.

ipadquietly Fri 29-Mar-13 19:04:00

This is the make-up of one of the L3 papers:
Place Value / Ordering 2 questions
Properties of Number / Sequences 2 questions
Fractions 1 question
Calculation (+) 2 questions
Calculation (-) 2 questions
Calculation (x) 4 questions
Calculation (÷) 3 questions
Missing Number Problems / Inverse 3 questions
Problem Solving / Reasoning 10 questions
Measures 1 question
Measures (Time) 1 question
Shape & Space 3 questions
Handling Data 3 questions

An individual's progress in specific parts of the maths curriculum can't be based on this - there just aren't enough questions in each strand.

mrz Fri 29-Mar-13 19:04:22

But what about all the other possible weaknesses that the tests didn't identify because they weren't assessed?

"But what I am saying is that if they get this one aspect of shape wrong then they are going to get all aspects wrong." highly unlikely IMHE a child may be very good at identifying quadrilaterals but not so good at recognising reflective symmetry or positional language or classification or visualisation or ...

mrz Fri 29-Mar-13 19:06:02

"The entire shape curriculum isn't that much, quite likely." hmm

plainjayne123 Fri 29-Mar-13 19:07:56

There can be 2 questions in each area then. I think weaknesses can be identified.

mrz Fri 29-Mar-13 19:09:12

oh dear

Feenie Fri 29-Mar-13 19:10:04

But only in certain areas, for the reasons described.

Feenie Fri 29-Mar-13 19:10:18

<patient>

ipadquietly Fri 29-Mar-13 19:12:13

Plainjayne why didn't you just google what your dd needs to learn within level 3, and, as you're so inclined, work through it with her. That would mean that she covered all of the requirements.

mrz Fri 29-Mar-13 19:12:28
mrz Fri 29-Mar-13 19:14:36
LifeIsBetterInFlipFlops Sun 31-Mar-13 12:36:41

Thank you to all of you teachers who have responded.

My thinking was akin to plainjane's, so I'm delighted to hear from the teachers regarding how the levels are decided.

Thanks too for the links Mrz...much appreciated.

Otherworld Mon 01-Apr-13 23:12:42

Why does it actually matter what the child got? At this stage it's about overall school performance rather than any individual child isn't it?

As I understand it, the government are measuring the effectiveness of the school to take a group of children an average of 2 levels a year and this is part of that measurement. It doesn't matter to an individual child whether they got a 2, 3 or 4. Just that the school is making the right progress.

mrz Mon 01-Apr-13 23:16:46

No it's about the individual child, the data is used to predict and measure the child's progress for the next four years.

GoodDaddy Wed 01-May-13 11:06:27

plainjayne123 you are a good parent. Any parent who sees an area that their child is struggling and seeks to help them is not doing anything wrong. If it was only to get a good score on the KS1 SATS then it is obviously not going to improve their marks significantly. But, but testing your child at home you have been able to find areas of weakness. Even if you only help your child in 1 area.....its better than none.

GoodDaddy Wed 01-May-13 11:20:15

Last term my daughter came home with a terrible report. It said that based on a mock SATS exam she was not going to hit her end of year target (10 out of 27 on a level 2). The teacher said that my Daughter could read well but obviously didn’t understand what she was reading. When I got home I printed out the same English exam (plus 1 other) and explained to my daughter that she needed to read the passages, then read the question, then search for the answer in the passage. She got 23 and 24 on both of the exams. I took these to the teacher and gave them to her as evidence of what she can do. The following week the school made her do a level 3 exam and she got 20/27 (passed level 3). So she went from a 2c to a 3c in 3 day according to her teacher.

I have since found that her teachers dont really know what level the kids are at. And if I had just left them to it my daughter would be doing terrible. I can achieve more in 1 Saturday morning ( 1 on 1 ) than any teacher can achieve in a school week, I would home school her, but she needs the social life!

So to any parent out there who feels that they want to help their child....go for it! The only people here who are telling you not to are the teachers, because they know that you can do just as good a job as they can! (in less time) Teachers should be encouraging parents to help in areas of need, it would make their jobs easier.

MirandaWest Wed 01-May-13 11:30:55

I'm not a teacher. I'm saying not to do SATs tests with DC at home. Helping in areas of need is different from going through SATs papers.

redskyatnight Wed 01-May-13 12:27:33

GoodDaddy the score on a single SATS paper is not the level that the child is working at. My DS's teacher thinks he is working at 4b in maths, but the last assessment paper he took says that he is a 3b. This doesn't mean the teacher has got it wrong, just that DS needs to spend less time staring out the window, read the questions properly and not rush the paper practice his assessment paper technique.

If your child was really doing terribly, spending 5 minutes explaining how to do the paper would not have helped her.

GoodDaddy Wed 01-May-13 14:30:14

At school she got told that the first test was not important....so thats how she treated it. She missed out questions, she didnt even finish it!

Every child is different, and only a parent knows how to get the best out of their child. There are 26 children in my daughters class, so the teacher has 10 minutes per day to dedicate to her, and she doesnt know her needs or level at all!

GoodDaddy Wed 01-May-13 14:32:01

I think we just have a terrible teacher. Last years teacher was OK. There are twins in my dd year, and the mother has noticed a big difference between the 2 different classes/teachers.

Feenie Wed 01-May-13 16:44:20

I think you had a terrible teacher too! She should know your dd's ability much, much better than that, and she shouldn't be assessing using simply test papers.

If your dd truly was reading at a 2c, simply teaching her test technique would not elevate her one jot.

Every child is different, and only a parent knows how to get the best out of their child.

I agree with your first statement, but can accept that I as a parent may not know how to get the best out of my child. Children often behave differently at school.

GoodDaddy Thu 02-May-13 10:14:14

Hi Feenie, We hope her teacher next year is a bit better. The reason she did so bad in the test is because she was told it was not important (just a workbook). My DD is a bit of a chatterbox, which is why she didn’t finish it. If she is told its a test and its important, she will stop chatting and concentrate. At Easter we went to the parents evening to discuss her bad report (in English) and she told us that she had based her report on the test results alone.....stupid eh! She really doesn’t know what level she is at. She is reading ORT level 10/11 with no problem at all, but the teacher just said "From her exam result it obviously shows that she doesn’t understand what she is reading!" It made me so furious!!

GoodDaddy Thu 02-May-13 10:22:51

I need your opinions on something guys.

I found out that my daughter and 4 others had been separated from the class for an hour every day. I found out that they were being put in a class doing really basic English, games like you get in reception (she is in year 2). When I asked the teacher why she told me that they get extra credit from Ofted if they put on special classes for children who speak more than 1 language (she also speaks Spanish). I had her removed from that class immediately.

Shouldn’t that be something that is assessed individually? Isnt that prejudice/Nationalism?

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