Infant School pushing to report me to SS for neglect. Can they do that?

(554 Posts)
pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 18:40:40

My DD age 5.5 has had a poor lateness record since the beginning of Year 1. No excuses really, I only lived a 9 minute walk from school but we were late almost every day for at least 6 months. I had trouble sleeping but not to the point of Insomnia, just kept oversleeping through the alarm clock most times (dreaded snooze button).

She's also had some absence, genuine though, illness and doc's appointments.

Last year I was advised by letter that unless lateness improved the school would be referring us to a welfare officer.
3 months ago we had to move out of the village to a nearby town but no transfers in new town for DD so she still attends old school. Because I have had to rely on buses, we have been late again quite a few times, or other people that I have relied on to drive her in for me have been late traffic etc or there's been other logistical problems, so presumably the record isn't improving.

Today the head teacher called my Mum in for a word (I'm 44...why they need to call my Mummy I don't know), and the gist was as follows:

My children are being neglected because I have insomnia (I don't, I just needed to put some excuse down in the late book. Quite tame compared to other regularly late people's excuses), so they want to involve social services.

I have been seen in the village shop with my children buying chocolate bars. And that's it. I don't know what they mean by this? :/

My daughter has turned up without a cardigan on at least two occasions in 'extreme weather'. This constitutes neglect. But they are quick to complain if she's wearing a different colour cardigan to school because her two logo tops are in the wash.

She often has a chocolate drink in her lunchbox.

This is a very cliquey village, hence glad to have left it behind, but although the late record is admittedly quite dire, is it generally worthy of involving social services for neglect?

The head teacher and I "don't have a dialogue" she told my Mum, hence why she called her in to talk to instead.

I've only spoken to the head once, when I had to inform them about the children's father's DV past so that they do not let him take DD out of school without my permission.

I bristle under authority having come into my Catholic rebellion quite late in life, but I'm generally non-combative.

So I'm wondering what you think of my request, in that I want toask the head to write down all the concerns she has so I have it in writing, and then invite her to my home in order that she can ascertain for herself it is a proper, clean, comfortable and sustaining environment for the children.

I feel a bit Hmmmmm that she has gone 'running to my Mummy' instead of talking to me, the parent, especially considering this late book has been full of the same old, same old pupils including my sister's son, for the last couple of years, but I feel a bit singled out perhaps wrongly, I don't know, because of the whole single mother on benefits stereotype, DV background, and now they want social services to investigate the children for neglect.

The children's father also wants to play this card against me, so I'm just resigned to SS being involved in their lives anyway it's out of my control.

My DD is otherwise happy, bright, doing fine at school and paints happy pictures all the time.

Can an infant school really go down this route when there isn't actually any clear signs of any kind of neglect going on? It seems unfair to tar my DD with this brush and I'm also concerned how this is going to affect her In Year transfer to a school in our new town.

I think this is just a rant, it all seems to be out of my control. The head has a reputation for being an axe-grinder and their Ofsted isn't great for a village school. The conspiracy theorist in me is saying its all about the grades.

Hs anyone been investigated by SS before for neglect? What should I expect? Will it go against me in the forthcoming Vafcass report which their father wants to initiate too as part of his contact/custody case?

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 18:43:02

Cafcass not Vafcass.

Gumby Tue 08-Jan-13 18:43:05

Could your mum help get the children to school on time?

marquesas Tue 08-Jan-13 18:43:54

My goodness, what a saga. To address the key issue I think a school can raise concerns about a child for many reasons and on the info you've given I can see why they might have done so.

I'd be trying to form relationship with the HT asap if I were you.

RandomMess Tue 08-Jan-13 18:45:16

Do the school have a link worker?

littlemiss06 Tue 08-Jan-13 18:46:44

I have to be honest that school have a duty to protect the children in their care and if they are concerned and follow these steps, if you have nothing to hide then there wont be anything to worry about, they might just have a chat with you and if they feel you need any support go from there. If there are court cases going on then it may be that they gather all information from social services first before making any decisions

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 18:49:12

Yes Mum helps where she can, she's quite I'll though and has heart problems, I don't like to rely on her too much, it's not fair on her.

VivaLeBeaver Tue 08-Jan-13 18:49:28

The school can do what they want. If they feel they need to refer then they should do.

SS will investigate which could be as little as coming and having a chat, or more if they feel its needed.

I'm shocked though that the head has gone to your mother. She's no right to do so and surely must have broken so many confidentiality rules its untrue!

I think you need to go and see the head and explain about the buses, etc. make sure your dd always has a coat from now on.

I don't think you can ask the head round to 'prove' you are an adequate parent; if she has concerns, she has to raise them not investigate them. I would take her involving your mum as a sign that she is trying to get you to shape up - a kind of hint that you need to get your act together. If you were seen in the shop during school time, that would be a concern? Tbh being late is pretty poor for your child, every day- she won't get that arriving en masse, settling in to the day bit. Wash one, wear one with the cardigan.

Mynewmoniker Tue 08-Jan-13 18:53:51

I'm going to be I see it.

Sounds like you've been a lazy mum and you have been caught out. Blaming the snooze button for over sleeping when you could have put the alarm out of reach is only one example.

What example are you giving your daughter? She sounds like she needs support so well done that HT.

LIZS Tue 08-Jan-13 18:54:26

I suspect your dd is under scrutiny due to the dv past and their observation adds weight to a safeguarding issue.

StuffezLaBouche Tue 08-Jan-13 18:55:18

I'm fairly shocked at the tactic of calling your mum tbh! That would piss me off massively.

I know it's not answering your main question, but I just needed to point out that while you don't sound like you think the lateness is that much of a "deal" it can have real effects on your children's education. Every morning for the first 20 minutes we do mental maths. If your child misses this every day, then they are missing out on a whole area of teaching. Therefore you are not giving them the best chance to thrive academically.

wigglywoowoo Tue 08-Jan-13 18:55:32

Have you seen the Educational Welfare officer? I don't think social services would be that interested to be honest.

First of all you need to establish that your Mother was indeed called into school and you and your children discussed by HT with her. I am surprised indeed that what might be confidential information has been shared, unauthorised with a third party (your Mother)

So yes, please speak to HT, in person if poss, to confirm this is indeed the case.

Secondly, yes, chronic lateness/lack of attendance, inappropriate attire, poor nutrition evidenced by lunchbox, your disclosure of insomnia - all together could be read as signs of neglect.

Please do get in contact with HT, ask for their concerns, be prepared to hear things you might not want to.

LIZS Tue 08-Jan-13 18:56:18

Is your mum named as your emergency contact or does pick up/drop off ?

noisytoys Tue 08-Jan-13 18:57:50

It doesn't look good for your DD tbh. I'm sure it's an over reaction but late everyday, not in uniform (so singled out from the rest of the group), in shops whilst well during school time etc. it all adds up sad

OwlLady Tue 08-Jan-13 18:59:10

have they not even referred you to the family liaison officer fgs
how ridiculous and ringing your mother?

have you been to the dr though? i think you need to get this sorted as much as you can and get the gp involved so that family liaison at school can help support you

Charmingbaker Tue 08-Jan-13 19:00:34

It is completely unacceptable for your child to be late on a regular basis. I have taught for many years and children who are regularly late really suffer academically. The start of the day is when the children find out the structure of the day ahead, as

TheMonster Tue 08-Jan-13 19:00:45

I agree with noisy - they do have grounds to be concerned.

Ditto, Mynewmoniker.

If you cant even be bothered to take your child to school on time, or ensure she is wearing the right uniform, or see to it so that she comes to school with a coat in bad weather, I too would wonder what else you cant be arsed with.

In all honesty, it sounds neglectful and lazy to me.

mrz Tue 08-Jan-13 19:01:20

Yes the school can down that route

happynewmind Tue 08-Jan-13 19:03:32

They can and will refer to education welfare officer for lateness, it is serious.

The chocolate bar in shop/chocolate drink sound silly though.

Did she have a coat when she had no cardigan?
Its boiling in dc school she rarely wears her cardigan.

AThingInYourLife Tue 08-Jan-13 19:03:56

I think the head teacher might have broken the law by giving so much personal information about your daughter to a third party.

OwlLady Tue 08-Jan-13 19:04:13

if there were concerns about lateness they should have got the family liaison officer/senco whoever involved to talk to her first

a lot of us don't have perfect lives. i am often late with my youngest because of other commitments (my dd being ill/sev sn mainly)

SandWitch Tue 08-Jan-13 19:04:34

Sorry OP, but I think the school have a point.

By your own admission, you were late almost every day for at least six months when you lived a 9 minute walk away.
For the last three months you have continued to be late (although reasons more understandable) That is almost a year of constant lateness! - lateness should be the exception, rather than the rule.

I think that it can be underestimated just how disruptive it can be for a child to be constantly missing that early interaction with their peers, being prepared for the day ahead, literacy/numeracy (which usually take place first thing in the morning ime.)

There are practical things that you can do to help yourself.
-have an alarm out of reach so you have to get out of bed
-take an earlier bus; if you find yourself regularly waiting at the school gates get off a stop early and walk the last little bit so you are not standing outside the gates in the cold
-Ask your mum, or someone else to give you an alarm call
-Put an alarm on your phone with a ‘five minute warning’ to ensure that you are out of the house on time

If the busses really are that unreliable, and the town is a good distance away from your current school, use this to appeal for a place at a more local school. There are a few posters on the primary board who are experienced with admissions and appeals.

My guess is that your ex will try and use this against you, but I would hope that his history of DV would be held against him.

I am shocked though that the school have called your mum in for a meeting, rather than you, that’s not on.

Was your mum called in, or was she rung because she's named as a second contact and they couldn't get hold of you?

Charmingbaker Tue 08-Jan-13 19:04:35

It is completely unacceptable for your child to be late on a regular basis. I have taught for many years and children who are regularly late really suffer academically. The start of the day is when the children find out the structure of the day ahead, as well as being introduced to new learning. You are giving your child the message that none of this is important. It is not your daughters fault this is happening and the school are completely justified in reporting you to SS,

OwlLady Tue 08-Jan-13 19:05:09

god i do hope the education wlefare officer gets in touch with me, I will drag my daughters useless social worker over the coals

howdoyouknowjenny Tue 08-Jan-13 19:05:50

Stop being lazy and get out of bed. It is your responsibility to get your child to school on time.

Dont get sidetracked, the main focus for you should be getting dd to school on time. Dont waste time thinking about the rights and wrongs of the heads behaviour think about your own.

LeeCoakley Tue 08-Jan-13 19:05:54

I would imagine that the HT is having a hard time getting through to you that the appalling lateness record is not acceptable. Maybe she thought that talking to your mother might make you decide to do something about it. Stop making excuses and get up earlier for the sake of your dd's education. It's not out of your control. If you are seen to be making an effort the school will support you. And try and get along with the HT, she can make a lot of difference if you are involved with other agencies.

Hobbitation Tue 08-Jan-13 19:06:34

I'm surprised they called SS for neglect without calling you in first about the lateness record. I think you need to be honest with the school, and yourself, have a word with your GP, and work together to sort this out. Also if you really want her to go to a local school instead keep in touch with the local authority to check where she is on the waiting list.

The only unreasonable bit is bypassing you and going to your mum. I find that really odd.

As others have said, being constantly late is really not on, and neither is being inappropriately dressed. SS will want to know why your DD is constantly late, and will check that it's not because you are passed out drunk every night, or working a night shift and leaving your child unattended.

The things you mention are all low level indicators of neglect, and the school is right to report it so that you can get support to put measures in place so that it doesn't escalate.

As an aside, do you work? If you don't, finding a job might get you the incentive you need to get out of bed.

happynewmind Tue 08-Jan-13 19:08:28

You do need to speak to school though, my dd1 made a disclosure that was pretty serious, two very serious comments.

Only my relationship with school stopped as involvement.

amillionyears Tue 08-Jan-13 19:11:57

You need to talk to the Head asap.
Maybe your mum got it wrong between welfare officer and social services?
She may have got other bits wrong to, but you wont know for sure until you speak to the Head.

It wont help that you have been putting insomnia in the lateness book, when you now say it wasnt.

I wouldnt think it all likely that the Head herself would come to your house if you invited her.

I am not a teacher btw.

PeachTown Tue 08-Jan-13 19:14:13

Yes they can refer you. The things you mention may seem insignificant to you but may be indicators that your DC are not being cared for adequately. SS may do nothing but this information may form part of an overall picture if there are any other concerns.

Children can be neglected while being truly loved - it isn't always intentional.

Try to work with everyone who offers help to sort the issues out.

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 19:16:57

Oh she's always had a winter coat, it was the two occasions her logo cardigans were in the wash she went I without, but in any event the school has spare fleeces.

It doesn't need to be 'established', it happened, today. Mum was picking up daughter from school, so one of the teachers told her she needed to come inside and speak with the head.

Oh yes I agree it has been laziness probably. I haven't been sleeping well at night for a few years, and just couldn't get out of bed in the morning consequently.

They have assembly for the first half hour of school every day. No lessons.

RyleDup Tue 08-Jan-13 19:18:04

Well being late for school for 6 months, when you only live down the road is rather neglectful of your childs education tbh. I can see the schools point. Theres nothing you can do now apart from let it run its course. Make sure your child is in school on time, catch an earlier bus if you need to. Make sure she's appropriately fed and dressed and talk it over with SSD if they come and visit you.

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 19:18:24

No, she wasn't in the shops during school time, they referred to my being seen buying chocolate bars in the village shop, presumably suggesting this is the entirety of my child's diet!

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 19:20:03

Pure, she has a full uniform and wears it, including a coat. You haven't read the whole thread.

On two occasions she went in without a cardigan, just a normal non logo cardigan, or none at all, but the school gives a spare out to those without anyway.

EnjoyResponsibly Tue 08-Jan-13 19:23:21

All the issues that the Head can be overcome by you putting a plan in place

-buy enough kit to ensure DC properly dressed
-adhere to lunchbox policy
-get up on time to take children to school

What's to stop you just doing those things? Demonstrate you care about her education.

And lateness is disruptive and not fair on your DD. Even if she isn't missing a lesson she's hanging her coat and bag up after everyone, someone has to take care of her when all the rest are sorted, she goes into assembly and detracts attention. And sooner or later she will cringe at always being the late one.

I wonder if the Head has spoken to the mother hoping she can improve things and thus avoid the need for SS involvment. Because OP I agree the school are right to raise concerns. Persistent lateness and excuses from a parent, child inadequately dressed and excuses for that (if she has two tops and should wear one why were both 'in the wash'?), lunchbox and observed behaviour seemingly lacking awareness of child's nutritional needs. Previous serious issues in the home. I would be horrified if the school weren't concerned about your child's wellbeing.

You should speak with the Head tomorrow to reassure her the lateness is going to improve and then you need to move hell or high water to get your child to school on time. You need to stop lying to the school now as well. I'm horrified you lied about the insomnia tbh. Forget about the head's reputation and the school's ranking etc - this is NOT about them. It is about YOU.

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 19:25:01

Pottering, no she was called in as she picked up my daughter from school. I am available at all times.

mrz Tue 08-Jan-13 19:25:34

So in fact they didn't send for your mum they just asked her as the person picking up your daughter if she had a minute

Mynewmoniker Tue 08-Jan-13 19:27:45

It's not for the school to provide your child with uniform. That's your responsibility. You seem resigned that the school 'owes' you when you can't be arsed.

I think there is more to this story than you are telling us. Schools don't have time to open an investigation without concern. They are too busy trying to educate our kids.

EnjoyResponsibly Tue 08-Jan-13 19:28:00

Also it isn't a conspiracy if you're giving them all the rope they need to hang you.

I'm wondering what form has your "bristling under authority" actually taken?

FlipFlopFloss Tue 08-Jan-13 19:28:21

Repeated lateness is not good and will already have had an affect on your child at school.

Nursery, reception and infant school is about learning about discipline, rules and social skills as much as it is about learning to read and write. Your child needs to be taught by you that getting to school on time is essential, time keeping and getting out the door on time is an essential life skill needed by anyone who ever hopes to hold down a job. Its not just being late and to be honest insomnia is a lame excuse. Kids have to take priority over pretty much EVERYTHING. If you got to school one morning and found no staff there because they all slept through the snooze button because they were exhausted from insomnia - would you not be a bit pissed off??? What concerns me is your post seems to imply you don't think this is a big thing at all.

I suspect the repeated lateness has red flagged your child and now they will find things that they may dismiss with other children. Altogether though I can see why they are concerned. They have duty of care and you sleeping in has drawn this attention on your child.

I do think it is very very wrong that have called in your mother and spoken to her over you. However, why is this? Are you rude or have a history of being rude to staff? This doesnot make them chatting to your mum right but may go part the way to explain why.

I would be requesting a meeting with the head and being polite and calm in my approach and asking how you can work with the school to help and improve things for your DC. Don't go armed with a list of excuses but perhaps explain about the buses. I would also have hoped that as the buses re so regularly dreadful and late that you would have already done 2 things.
1) complain EVERY time to the bus company
2) get an earlier bus (perhaps eat breakfast on the bus if necessary).

Perhaps you can suggest you will do this to the head. However, I doubt now the decision has been made to report you to SS that it will be withdrawn but you now need to be making HUGE efforts to prove you can do a better job and are doing all you can improve the situation.

mercibucket Tue 08-Jan-13 19:28:32

It's good that the school want this investigating as many of these things taken together could signal a neglected child

It's not good that the head told your mum all this, even if she does the pick up/drop offs. Are you sure it's not your mum trying to get you to up your game by claiming the school is worried?

Hulababy Tue 08-Jan-13 19:29:54

You really need to get on top of the punctuality situation. It is very disruptive for your DD, her class and her teacher. It is also setting some very poor habits for your DD - when she is taking herself to secondary school it'll be built in that it is okay to be late. It needs stopping asap. And yes - this is something that schools take very seriously and they have a duty to refer higher if no improvement after a "warning" letter.

Registration time is a time when children and teachers have a quick chat, pass on information, note dinner options, etc.

Assemblies in my school can include a fair bit of learning, just on a whole school/year basis. It may be notices being given out, information about an event or policy begin implemented, part of the phse topic, etc.

The cardigan thing I reckon wouldn't have even come up if not part of the bigger picture.

The chocolate milk - depends on the school packed lunch policy. Very easy to prevent though - just don't put it in.

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 19:30:18


She has a full kit and wears it. This applies to two occasions last year.

There is no lunchbox policy.

We live 4 miles from school, where my mother can't help due to illness, I can no longer afford to bus her in anyway, so lateness will always be an issue for the time being until she's transferred.

Where has the nutrition issue crept in from? Sandwiches, juice, apple and a fruit mousse or other snack are perfectly acceptable lunchbox contents. This is provincial east midlands, not organic hummus and spiced legumes all round south Putney.

doublecakeplease Tue 08-Jan-13 19:30:23

Just a thought - When are they referring to you being in the shop? Is it before school and adding to the lateness?

StuffezLaBouche Tue 08-Jan-13 19:32:14

On two occasions she went in without a cardigan, just a normal non logo cardigan, or none at all, but the school gives a spare out to those without anyway.

For this alone I say a resounding PFFFFT!

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 19:32:27


They refer to having seen me in the village shop during daytime whilst my children are in school and nursery.....buying chocolate bars. It's the chocolate police. I wouldn't put it past this daft village.

scottishmummy Tue 08-Jan-13 19:32:49

school will liaise with sw about attendance and provide the info about times/ dates
you're child was inapropriately dressed in severe weather.these things will raise concern
I'd advusec cooperate with any plans made get good rapport with school and sw
prioritize getting child tp school,habitual lateness is a problem,it's disruptive
a child should have stability,good nutrition,routine and adequate clothing

PandaNot Tue 08-Jan-13 19:33:47

It's the collection of things all put together which will be concerning the school but they shouldn't have spoken to your mum. Have they got other concerns about her diet in general? Has the school nurse flagged her weight as an issue maybe? That's the only reason I can think they would be concerned about the chocolate-buying.

veryworried29 Tue 08-Jan-13 19:33:58

It is neglectful not to get your child to school on time.

ledkr Tue 08-Jan-13 19:34:05

Well the school can report you if they have concerns but in your case I'm sure there is not a case for neglect maybe just for some support and advice.
However! You should get her to school on time in a cardi with a nice lunch. Shouldn't you really? You know that.
I am a bit of a late person but I just about get mine to school on time because its just what you do!
Set the clock a bit earlier, go to bed a bit earlier, get stuff ready the night before. Good habits ready for senior school where they get into trouble for lateness.
You know you can.

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 19:36:23

Interesting point about the confidentiality issue. If that's the case then I will be putting forward an official complaint about the head.

Lateness runs in our family, my sister's son also attends same school, year above, same if not worse late record, but Mum has never been called in to talk about him.

I believe the head saying to Mum that her and I have 'no dialogue' is the clue. I suspect she anticipates difficulty talking to me. I broke a rule last Xmas by insisting I attend the nativity play with a sibling, against their rules. I marched right in with my young son, was not going to miss my child's first Xmas play because of a silly rule.

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 19:37:26

Yes it was laziness. Logistics now. And finances. Perhaps I was still g a bit from depression, that tends to keep you in bed doesn't it?

No.....saying you can't afford the bus won't wash. You need to get your child to school on time. It's your responsibility. If you can get her there late, you can get her there on time. Goodness knows I love my bed but there limits woman. You MUST get out of it.

doublecakeplease Tue 08-Jan-13 19:37:50

Ok - surprised at that. I think you need to make every effort to pick your game up starting tomorrow. Lay everything out tonight -breakfast, uniform, lunch, bus money etc. Set your alarm early if you want to snooze. SHOW them that you are capable of addressing their concerns. Your poor dd must be fed up of being late.

Feelingood Tue 08-Jan-13 19:38:42


I thinks there's been some bits of advice on here that have been quite blunt and critical. I think your core issue is getting to school on time. Schools are adamant about this and don't budge, it's a life skill and is important for as others have said settling in.

It doesn't matter that they have assemblies first thing, your DD needs to feel part of the school in every sense and it's actually a legal requirement for school to provide collective worship.

I think you should concentrate on getting a n we routine, travel in
Lace to get yourself up and out on a morning - I used to be bad at this, so do sympathise but I did always get dc's there on time, just! Now I'm better at it we are not even rushing.

honestly I think you need help to get into a good routine

- get uniform ready night before - change immediately when home and Kay out or wash it.
- packed lunch and bags ready shoes and coat by door.
- get bathed/showered the night before, quicker wash in am
- alarm set for one hour before getting up time, no snooze. have a drink or banana by your bed to eat helps wake you up
- set a secondary alarm
- make jam sandwiches to eat on rout if desperate re bus journey or fruit and cereal bar, do this till you get in a better routine and build in cereal or cooked stuff later.

You need to decide on what you need to do and do one day at a time, kept going and eventually becomes a good new habit.

you sound like you have enough on your plate without this too.

Mynewmoniker Tue 08-Jan-13 19:38:47

*"This is provincial east midlands, not organic hummus and spiced legumes all round south Putney."

I hope that's not your attitude when speaking to the HT. It says a lot about you.

ihearsounds Tue 08-Jan-13 19:39:50

The school have procedures in place because of safe guarding. There are a number of triggers that can result in the school reporting to SS. They don't even have to let you know they have reported. The HT is doing what she thinks is the right thing to do. She cannot guarantee that the child's needs are being met. If she didn't do anything even though there are warning signs, and something happened, she would be in a whole heap of trouble.

I am a life long insomniac. Started as a child. It is hard, but every morning I get my arse out of bed and get my children to school and myself off to work. You know this is a problem so you look at solutions, not blaming the snooze button. The button has no control, you do.

Chocolate bars, because if this is all you seem to buy then it will get noted. Even more so if there are alternative available. And how many times a week you buy chocolate. Add this to the chocolate milk in lunch box and it is an unhealthy diet. There are many healthy alternatives.

You have a least 2 people (school and dad) having issues with your parenting. Take a proper hard look to see where you are going wrong, not just the stuff mentioned.

You need to get proactive, stop blaming everything/one for what you are doing. You have the power to make changes. And yes I have been investigated for neglect. School didn't believe I was trying to get my sn ds all the help available. But in my case I was able to show evidence from letters etc that I was trying just caught up in a minefield of referrals and waiting lists. Had the school asked me, I would have shown them, but they went straight to ss, which helped as they used their powers to get referrals and stuff pushed quicker.

scottishmummy Tue 08-Jan-13 19:39:56

look you need to prioritize timekeeping,not oh lateness runs in family.that's slack
do you appreciate there are concerns,you need to address lateness stop making excuses
do be open and cooperative,don't see this asadverserial. work with school and sw

Feelingood Tue 08-Jan-13 19:39:58

Lay out

Smudging Tue 08-Jan-13 19:40:03

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 19:40:14


What do you think the school 'owes' me exactly? Because I can't see that they do. Can you make yourself clearer? They owe me nothing. Or are you just trying to throw a flame?

HyvaPaiva Tue 08-Jan-13 19:40:28

You are doing a huge disservice to your child. Get her to school on time, dress her appropriately, set a good example to her. 'Darned snooze button', 'Can't afford bus', 'village clique', 'silly rules' are all excuses you are pushing on us in your messages here. Where exactly are YOU and your responsibility? Stop doing this to your DD. Just stop it.

Portofino Tue 08-Jan-13 19:41:04

I don't sleep well and struggle to get up. I set the alarm earlier so I have plenty of time. DD is never late for school. What measures have you tried to ensure you are on time in the morning?

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 19:41:08

Mrz no, they specifically asked to speak to her. It was for more than 'just a minute'.
They do not routinely call in any old person who picks p a child from school to speak on such issues.

Smudging Tue 08-Jan-13 19:41:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

doublecakeplease Tue 08-Jan-13 19:41:19

Sorry but lateness doesn't run in families. Habitual idleness might but not lateness. Your comment about marching right in despite a rule has me bristling. If you're 'available at all times' there is no excuse to be late or not have uniforms washed.

Smudging Tue 08-Jan-13 19:42:21

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RyleDup Tue 08-Jan-13 19:42:26

Yes it was laziness. Logistics now. And finances. Perhaps I was still g a bit from depression, that tends to keep you in bed doesn't it?

Maybe so, but its not about you, its about your daughters education. And if the school think youre not up to the job of making sure your dd gets to school, adequately dressed, then they will enlist the help of social services. You seem to make a lot of excuses for yourself.

lljkk Tue 08-Jan-13 19:42:33

You sound hard work, Pylonic.
Maybe school are bigger prats, I don't know. I don't think it would bother me if I were you & my mum often picked said child up & school spoke to her about all this, I think that's red herring & won't deter SS from investigating.
I don't think SS will have enough to go on to make much of this (sadly I speak from experience).

Mynewmoniker Tue 08-Jan-13 19:42:39

Feelingood wink I like your 'friendly/understanding' approach but I'm not sure it will support the child as mum seems too busy defending her actions instead of telling us how she's going to care for her daughter better.

Why is it ok for your mum to collect your child and have temporary responsibility for her but not ok for the school to speak to her about that child's well being hmm

You're doing yourself no favours by being so confrontational about this.

ihearsounds Tue 08-Jan-13 19:43:38

I can see where 'no dialogue' comes in place.
The school do not have silly rules. They have rules for a reason. Barging in because you don't agree with their silly rules is unacceptable.

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 19:43:38

Northern lurker, it's a valid excuse. I can't afford the bus fares,mtrust me.

gingerchick Tue 08-Jan-13 19:44:08

You seem to have no respect for rules. I am an insomniac and sometimes get less than an hours sleep but my daughter is never late for school and my younger daughter never late to pre school. Sometimes I am so tired I could weep but my daughters education is paramount and I just suck it up and get on with it. I think it is your general attitude which is highlighting you and your complete lack of responsibility for your actions, your dv past shouldn't have a bearing really. I also have one and have had to tell the school everything but because my daughter is always at school with everything she needs and all her needs tended to it is not an issue

scottishmummy Tue 08-Jan-13 19:44:23

if your depression is impacting on routine see your gp
you do need to demonstrate ability to manage task adequately.
if there are factors impeding you these need to be acknowledged

Bajas Tue 08-Jan-13 19:44:40

As a teacher albeit secondary, lateness is a huge bugbear of mine.

If pupils are late regularly to registration or assembly they miss lots of key information about after school or lunch time clubs, activities and opportunities. They also miss that crucial 'settling in' period so they are ready to start learning with everyone else. If they miss the start of classes that is an even bigger issue. lateness will become a much bigger issue in secondary school

We also have spare blazers (secondary) in case of emergency (blazer torn etc) but would not expect to have to lend them repeatedly to the same child. Each head of year only has 2 for a year group of 150 so they are not always available.

While I agree the head was unreasonable to bring this up with your mother instead of you, I can see why he/ she is concerned about your child.

I think you should consider some of the helpful suggestions from previous posters as to how to improve the situation rather than giving a list of reasons why you can't/ shouldn't have to deal with these issues

You can't afford bus fare twice a day? (Because you and the younger child can walk home and walk there to pick up). How much is it?

Does the school provide hot dinners? I think your dd should qualify and then you can use the cost of her packed lunch on bus fare.

EnjoyResponsibly Tue 08-Jan-13 19:47:12

Did you explain to the school that you'd have issues with your DDs transportation prior to moving. Managing their expectations would have been fair, and made things easier for you and DD.

Maybe if you explained your issues as well as addressing their obvious concerns you'd have an easier time with them.

scrappydappydoo Tue 08-Jan-13 19:47:12

Could you get in touch with the council regarding transport - my dd was eligible for taxi/bus transport as we lived further than 2 miles from the school. This may help with the transport issue.

Hobbitation Tue 08-Jan-13 19:48:11

We have been late a few times due to my insomnia but not every day for six months. Please speak to your GP. I'm very glad you have admitted it on here, I think that's very positive FWIW.

andtoast Tue 08-Jan-13 19:48:32

I think this is a good old fashioned case of an "attitude problem" on your part. At least the school are looking out for your daughter because frankly it doesn't sound like you give a toss.

These are basic, basic things. You're developing a victim complex instead of facing the fact that you've been a bit crap.

RyleDup Tue 08-Jan-13 19:48:57

Get in touch with the council about funding for transport if you can't afford it.

EnjoyResponsibly Tue 08-Jan-13 19:49:45

OP hasn't got insomnia, she says that in her OP and that she lied about it in the late book.

teacherwith2kids Tue 08-Jan-13 19:50:07

I am not your DD's teacher, but if I were, I too would have rasied concerns about your DD:
- Inadequately dressed for weather, passing responsibility on to the school - yes, the school may lend clothes in extremis, as they do not want children to suffer from your neglect, but it is your neglect.
- Lack of balanced meals - if the meal is chocolate milk, sandwiches containing protein, a piece of fruit and some raisins, that's one thing. Chocolate milk, jam sandwiches, crisps and a chocolate biscuit is another. can you describe a typical daily lunch for your DD?
- Persistent lateness, with a variety of excuses which are beginning to seem repetitive / inaccurate.

Are you late at other times of the day? Persistent lateness picking up is a definite trigger point.

The refusal to work within school rules on other occasions does speak volumes about your attitude, and makes me wonder whether there is 'another side' of this story?

RyleDup Tue 08-Jan-13 19:51:00

Oh and in the meantime you can do as northern suggests and walk some of the journeys back and too.

mrz Tue 08-Jan-13 19:52:12

The council won't fund transport unless you live over a certain distance and your child attends the nearest school and they will only find it for the child not an adult

I think that feelingood has given some excellent advice there and you should most definitely start that as soon as possible. However, I think you should really arrange to speak with the HT, face to face, for a frank and honest conversation. Express what you have us in this thread and then he can make a more informed opinion on the situation.

If you feel and that you are being victismed and HT takes this further, then you will have nothing to fear. Just be honest with everyone involved.

scottishmummy Tue 08-Jan-13 19:52:35

have you had benefit assessment?eligible for free meals?
you need to prioritize getting to school and good relationship with school
if your depression is impacting then see the gp.are your meds needing reviewed

LIZS Tue 08-Jan-13 19:53:13

I'd suggest you resolve to make a serious effort to get your dd there on time , look into any free transport for her, school meals etc and arrange to meet the head yourself. If she needs another cardigan can you ask if there is a second hand sale. If you continue to deny there is an issue and look to blame others then you are on a slippery slope.

Aspiemum2 Tue 08-Jan-13 19:53:29

I'm not going to add anything to what others have said over the lateness issue as it would just be more of the same.

I just wanted to check that you are aware of the uniform grant that is available if you meet certain criteria. I believe it is £50 per child so would enable you to purchase some more cardigans and have money set aside for other bits she may need over the year.

OpheliasWeepingWillow Tue 08-Jan-13 19:53:45

Why can't you set 3 alarms? 4? 5?

Confused. Surely you need to just get out of bed any way possible. I'd be outside the school 10 minutes before opening time if I thought SS were about to investigate me.

I'd also put SACKS of cardigans in her bag to make sure she was warm.

You just sound a bit distanced and blaming everyone else. Be more proactive and stop blaming snooze / teachers / logos and buses.

Can't YOU go and see the Head?

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 19:53:50


Going round in circles a bit here, isn't it.

I do have some valid reasons, finances for one. Can't afford the bus fares. If you knew a bit moreofmy backstory it would make more sense I suppose.
Having a chocolate drink in a lunchbox where there's no lunchbox policy hardly constitutes malnutrition. But you choose to ignore the fruit and other content, else it wouldn't make an interesting response I suppose.
Oh lateness/laziness isn't forgivable of course not, but I suspect it's a product of general unhappiness over the last couple of years based on issues with their father. Who knows.
And no, if her uniform is I the wash, she can't wear the logo cardigan to school. It's really not a big deal, especially where many other children don't wear the full uniform at all.

What else? Oh, the bristling. Absolutely yes, I have a problem with unproductive rules. I suppose you can paint an entire picture of my psychological profile based on the fact I refused to sit out the nativity play just because there was a no siblings rule. I'd like to think I barged in all Joan of Arc style too, but in fact I shuffled in apologetically as is my usual nature and sat down quietly.


TheSecondComing Tue 08-Jan-13 19:53:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Charmingbaker Tue 08-Jan-13 19:54:03

If your mum is down as one your childs contacts, and she regularly picks up your DD then the school are allowed to express their concerns to your mum. It is probable that they are hoping this will make you buck up your ideas before they feel they have to contact welfare officers or social services. The school are not picking on you, they are only concerned about your daughter, and it is your DD who is the victim here not you.

cumbrialass Tue 08-Jan-13 19:54:10

I suffer from insomnia but I'm never late for school ( as a teacher it's probably just as well!)

Muffinpig Tue 08-Jan-13 19:55:11

OP did you have a bad experience of school yourself? Your comments make me wonder why you seem anti-school and don't respect their rules/HT/think its important to attend on time. Is it because you hated school yourself?

TunaPastaBake Tue 08-Jan-13 19:55:38

Why isn't your DD getting free school meals ? Sounds like she should = bit of money saved there on packed lunch - and stop buying the chocolate = that saves a bit too !

Feelingood Tue 08-Jan-13 19:55:39

mynew I know thanks, just trying to be constructive.

I have also had depression and mornings used to be like wading through toffee, get to you GP as SM said, but still you need to show what steps you are taking.

thesnootyfox Tue 08-Jan-13 19:56:05

You need to work with the school not against it. You will do yourself no favours at all in being confrontational with the Headteacher. Perhaps the teacher spoke to your mother because she thought that she would care enough to address the issue, perhaps you are giving them the impression that you don't care?

Being late is horrible for the child. We were late on about 3 or 4 occasions (less than 10 minutes) after I gave birth to second child and ds hated it, it's noticed not just by the teachers but by the other children too.

You really have got to make an effort. Write lists of everything you need to do and pin that along with a timetable on the fridge.

RyleDup Tue 08-Jan-13 19:56:21

The council won't fund transport unless you live over a certain distance and your child attends the nearest school and they will only find it for the child not an adult

They probably will fund transport, well they would in this area anyway. I think op is now 4 miles away and is awaiting a place in a local school.


Feelingood Tue 08-Jan-13 19:57:29

Was just about to say, think the school giving you a chance by speaking to your mum, see it as a heads up.

vacuuming Tue 08-Jan-13 19:58:02

Let your child go in to school at a time that suits you. Let her wear whatever she wants to school. Continue blatantly flouting school policies. March around the place with a sense of entitlement picking and choosing those elements of school life you want to abide by and those you don't. Throw in a smattering of depression as it may help counter the too fucking lazy to get out of bed argument. Stand back and watch while the school rightfully involve SS and see what kind of adult your child turns out to be as the result of your example. This thread makes me angry

mrz Tue 08-Jan-13 19:58:28

pylonic just to be clear did the school send for your mother or was she already there waiting to collect her grandchild when they asked her in?

scottishmummy Tue 08-Jan-13 19:58:42

you really dont seem to take respobsibility it's not a ho-humsmile that's just me
you're coming across as not your problem,school picking on you etc
get your mental health looked at by gp,get your girl to school on time

AndBingoWasHisNameOh Tue 08-Jan-13 19:59:02

You've got that record of lateness and is the first time it has been raised?

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 19:59:37

Northern lurker.

We no longer live in the village. Bus fares 4 times a day drop off, go,home, come back, pick up, go home again. It amounted to nearly £150 a month.

LIZS Tue 08-Jan-13 20:00:41

Have they addressed any of these issues direct with you in the past or invited you in for a chat? Parents' evening perhaps ?

Aspiemum2 Tue 08-Jan-13 20:00:58

I did think that was odd too bingo, I was laid up for a week and unable to do the school run so relied on friends and family. School were forewarned but dd was late 4 out of the 5 days and I got a rather snotty letter!

mrz Tue 08-Jan-13 20:00:58

Have you considered a school closer to home

thesnootyfox Tue 08-Jan-13 20:01:20

Are there any parents living nearby who can help you with the school runs?

When will your dd have a place at a local school?

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 20:01:23


We can't walk to school. It's 4 miles away and involves a national speed limit A road....

thornrose Tue 08-Jan-13 20:01:49

I know families that have been referred to Social Services because of poor attendance and lateness (I was the attendance officer!)
Our procedures were to send out 2 warning letters, then an invitation to an attendance panel with the Educational Welfare Officer. The family were offered support and if they didn't engage then they were referred to SS.
I think this is your cue to "engage". I would consider this an unofficial "heads up" by the Head and think yourself lucky to be honest!
You really need to turn this around.

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 20:02:12


There is no uniform grant in this county.

gingerchick Tue 08-Jan-13 20:02:12

If you were late for work consistently there would be a problem it is no different
For school I do understand that you have depression and difficulties I really do but you really do need to take the school into your confidence and work with them they do only have your daughters best interest
At heart as I'm sure you do

Perriwinkle Tue 08-Jan-13 20:03:09

Perhaps the Head called your mum in to try and do a bit of digging...? She may have thought that your mum might have let something slip about your personal circumstances that may have filled in a few gaps for her and enabled her to get a better handle on what was going on at home? Anyway, whatever. To be perfectly honest I think the rights and wrongs of what the Head did in involving your mum are a bit of a red herring here anyway.

The way you parent your child may seem to be perfectly acceptable to you (doesn't it to us all?) but you have to be prepared to be criticised sometimes and I think you can most certainly be criticised for your daughter's constant late arrival at school due to your oversleeping. Maybe calling SS in might seem a bit harsh to you but if your DD is raising red flags for neglect in line with usual school policies then the school has every right to act on what they see. They have a statutory duty of care to your DD and a duty to advocate for her. After all, if you as her mother aren't going to see to it that you wake up on time in order to see to it that's she not late for school on a very regular basis, who else is going to? The situation has to be addressed and it quite clearly can't be allowed to go on indefinitely.

Perhaps you could use this to your advantage and liaise with the Head to see whatshe can do to add weight to your request for a transfer for your DD, given the circumstances of her constant lateness, which you say is principally based on poor transport links?

If I were in your shoes and I had an ex partner whom I thought was just waiting for me to step out of line in order to use it against me in a potential custody battle for my child I would sure as hell make sure my behaviour was nothing short of exemplary.

Just another thought, do you think you might be depressed? The reason I ask this is because a work colleague of mine was once chronically depressed and slept extremely poorly as a result. He used to have a few drinks at night too and this also interfered with his ability to get refreshing sleep so consequently he only drifted off to sleep properly at around 4am and then simply couldn't get up when the alarm went off and felt like shit all day.

Anyway, good luck.

If all buses are with the same company then surely they offer a 'day ticket'? We Where i llive they do. It's £4, that would be £80 4 weekly. Not cheap no, but you do need to get her there on time. It's one of our many duties as parents/guardians, along with the other things like brushing teeth, eating... Again all of which, if neglected, will impact the child, both short and long term.

TheSecondComing Tue 08-Jan-13 20:03:44

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sittinginthesun Tue 08-Jan-13 20:03:47

OP, I just wonder what you are hoping to achieve from this thread?

The consensus is that the school can report if they have concerns. It is their job to do so.

There is no excuse for persistent lateness, or not providing adequate uniform. If the school have flagged the chocolate milk, then don't send it to school.

You seem to be trying to find excuses to justify everything. You will get loads of support and advice on Mumsnet, but you have listen.

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 20:04:25

I don't know, secondComing, are you the poster who recently suffered from a dreadful bout of crabs and neglected to mention it to your partner? Because unless you want to fish something relevant out of past posts, cross referencing them with only the intent of building a one-faceted image of the OP is somewhat inane.

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 20:05:19

No muffin pig smile model pupil. Church mouse, always have been.

ZooAnimals Tue 08-Jan-13 20:06:25

I don't understand why not being able to afford the bus fare makes her late? If you can't afford it at 8am, how can you afford it half an hour later? Does the cost of the fare drop?

I do agree that they should not have spoken to your mum though, regardless of whether the mum is on the contact list or was picking her up and therefore trusted with the child blah blah. You trust another parent to pick up your child sometimes or a childminder/nanny, family friend. You don't expect them to be called in and told this sort of thing. It was a conversation that should have been between the child's primary caregiver and the school, not anyone who turned up to collect her from school.

Feelingood Tue 08-Jan-13 20:06:38


I havnt seen a post from you where you have said anything about what YOU could do, what's the point as just batting everything back with a barrier. Why did you bother posting if you are so resigned.

Schools can have Ofsted inspections triggered by poor attendance and lateness alone no matter how good they are in other areas, this is why they won't budge.

Actually you can get uniform grant, my friend got one a couple of years ago.

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 20:06:50

Mrz my mother collected my daughter today. Her teacher took her to one side and asked her to grand speak to the head.

Bajas Tue 08-Jan-13 20:06:58

And as for the school play...

The rule was there for everyone's benefit. Younger siblings can be disruptive and unsettle the children performing as well as hampering other parents in seeing their child perform.

I'm sure the other parents who called in favours from work/ friends/ family and babysitters to see their child's play were delighted to see you march in with your other dc hmm

The world does not revolve around you. It's time to step up to the plate and consider what's best for your children and other people as well as yourself angry

4 miles is walkable assuming you're in normal health. Ok other options - can you take a cheaper bus part of the way? The A road - are there alternatives? Is there a verge? Could you walk back that way at least once with younger child in a back pack and a reflective jacket on to ensure you're seen? Because of the road will the council fund transport? Have you asked? What about school meals - can you get them free? You can if you get Income support or jobseekers or child tax credit as long as you're not getting WTC and your income does not exceed £16,190.

Muffinpig Tue 08-Jan-13 20:07:53

Can I just ask you bluntly then, do you think it is important for your DD to be at school on time? Because I get the impression from all that you've said that you don't...

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 20:08:05


The school isn't picking on me. Why would you think that? I certainly don't consider myself victimised in any way. The thread is to ask if infant school have the ability to involve social services for lateness. Clearly, they do.

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 20:08:53

Mrz, there's no places available in this town, she's on an In Year Admission waiting list.

Mynewmoniker Tue 08-Jan-13 20:12:04

I think you've just posted to have a fight. I'm out!

AmberLeaf Tue 08-Jan-13 20:12:18

Maybe HT thinks if she contacts SS they will help speed up a place at a school closer to where you are now living?

Even when you get a closer school place though, you must overcome the lateness issue. I have found it hard in the past too, but its not nice being the child who is always late. so do it for your daughter not just cos they are telling you to! wink

Some of the things that were said sound a bit silly though ie buying chocolate?!

The other thing I wondered was if HT didn't actually speak to your Mum but your Mum is saying she did to put a rocket up your arse?

Perriwinkle Tue 08-Jan-13 20:12:21

Thesecondcoming Nit eggs do not constitute grounds for neglect. FGS if they did, half the children in schools around the country would be under the watchful eye of SS! Nits do not discriminate!

balia Tue 08-Jan-13 20:12:44

Perhaps you need to get over your catholic rebellion and grow up a bit? Getting your kid to school on time = pretty basic level of care. Expecting your most recent excuses to be listened to when you didn't manage to get her there when you lived 9 mins away is also a little immature. Moving house when concerns have been raised would have been another warning sign to SS/school, particularly if the move has not prioritised schooling. Attempting to minimise the problem by saying other people are worse is classic teenage behaviour.

Yes, it will not play well with Cafcass and if you genuinely feel that your DC is in danger from her father (otherwise why deny contact) you should make sure you aren't handing him ammunition.

ravenAK Tue 08-Jan-13 20:13:11

It's not just about the lateness, though. That would be EWO.

They're talking about SS because they're seeing a general pattern of you not coping terribly well with your responsibilities & then being unreceptive to discussing problems with school.

You need to sort it. Seriously.

meditrina Tue 08-Jan-13 20:13:32

Pylonic: I remember your earlier thread about in-year admissions. There are places in your new town, and you said you had been offered on (approx 1 mile from your current address) but you had turned it down.

The LEA are therefore under no obligation to come up with another offer, nor fund transport.

thesnootyfox Tue 08-Jan-13 20:13:54

You can appeal Pylonic. The LEA have a duty to provide a school place. You currently have a school place that you can't even get to and they aren't providing you with transport.

Get on to the case and get them to provide you with a nearer school place or a taxi to school. This is how it works. You don't have to sit back and wait for a school place that may never materialise.

Mutley77 Tue 08-Jan-13 20:14:05

They should not involve your mother - unless you have given them permission to speak to her.

However if they are worried - they can refer to SS. To be honest SS probably won't be interested based on what you've said.

But I do think you could do yourself a favour by trying to get the head on side - if they don't like the chocolate milk in the lunchbox send your child with fruit juice or water (many schools have policies on this kind of thing anyway, it's not unusual), and I think you will have to try harder to get her to school on time - I feel really sorry for children who are always late as they start the day rushed and don't have a chance to settle in with their peers, they are just forced in on the spot. Not saying I am perfect or anything but DD has never been late for school and I over sleep too - and have insomnia often - but I guess my starting time is earlier than yours! Your idea of getting it all in writing and discussing it rationally with the head is a good one - plus inviting her round to your home (or asking if there is a school family liaison officer or similar to do that as the head may well not have the time to do it).

Also if there is a referral to SS on file that will definitely affect your residence case (all details will be disclosed to the Court). If there is previous DV in your family that will be on SS record and if so, it may be that Cafcass refer the case straight to SS for a report given their previous involvement. It would be a lot more sticky for you if there were concerns voiced about your care of the children.

TunaPastaBake Tue 08-Jan-13 20:14:19

Just gets better ! hmm

BooCanary Tue 08-Jan-13 20:14:32

Op - you almost sound like you want SS/school to investigate you. Like you want to pick a fight, or play the victim.

How much do I want a t - shirt with 'nits do not discrimnate!' on it!? grin

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 20:15:29


Yes I have considered that any investigation may work in my favour as far as waiting for the school transfer goes.

And yes, I probably have enough on my plate at the moment to constitute a little depression! Although I'm generally optimistic about life, so not exactly sure how I would self diagnose depression.

Perriwinkle please don't think I was poking fun at your comment, it's just my infantile humour. I instantly had nits in a protest march going on in my head!

RyleDup Tue 08-Jan-13 20:16:42

Pylonic: I remember your earlier thread about in-year admissions. There are places in your new town, and you said you had been offered on (approx 1 mile from your current address) but you had turned it down

why did you turn it down?

You tuned down a place a mile away?

What were you thinking! Do you understand how important it is to ensure your children are educated? That by mucking aorund with this you ARE negelcting them?

slambang Tue 08-Jan-13 20:17:03

I only see 2 issues here.

Chocolate schmocolate , uniform and siblings in nativitiy - that's not the point here.

Lateness - you are in the wrong. Your dd does suffer through repepatedly missing the beginning of the day. That's when introductions and explanations happen. Coming late causes dispruption for all the others. Studies do show that dcs who are repeatedly late suffer academically. You need to be worried. They can penalise you for this legally. It is a marker to SS that you are not doing a good enough ob as a parent. Take it seriously .

Confidentiality - the school is in the wrong. They shouldn't have discussed it with your mum.

I'd say your best approach here -ask for an appointment with the head. Go in politely and calmly and discuss it openly. Admit you've had problems. Accept you are to blame for the lateness. Agree to try to sort it out.

Then express your concern that they discussed confidential matters with your mum not you. Explain you are open to conversation with the school and would prefer to discuss your dd's welfare with them directly, not second hand. Stay Calm.

But for god's sake sort it out for your dd's sake. She is the one person who is not to blame in this.

mrz Tue 08-Jan-13 20:17:42

SS involvement could certainly help with in year transfer

GinAndaDashOfLime Tue 08-Jan-13 20:17:57

OP you sound like my mum ... Your dd's life was my life as a child. Yes I felt loved and my friends thought her rebelliousness was cool - BUT I also felt constantly humiliated, anxious and frightened because, like ALL kids, I liked rules -they make kids feel safe - and I hated the fact that my mum was always flouting them, I felt like the odd one at school, the weirdo, the one who always got talked about by the teachers, the pitied one .. As a result I ended up hating my mum as an adult because it IS neglect.

Please sort this out. I feel desperately sad for your dd.

How are you getting to school at the moment?

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 20:18:02


Gosh yes, we've had headlice before. Haven't you? wink Are you ashamed of it? Because its quite natural.

TheSecondComing Tue 08-Jan-13 20:18:26

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheBOF Tue 08-Jan-13 20:18:31

I remember the nit thread- it was about old nit cases from months ago though, wasn't it? It doesn't give a good impression of personal care, that's all, especially in conjunction with the not getting up early enough to get the child to school. I can see why the school have concerns.

If two logo cardigans are in the wash together sometimes, you need three! So she obviously doesn't have enough uniform.

I see from meditrina's post above that you could transfer to a school place much nearer.

Groovee Tue 08-Jan-13 20:21:00

You lived a short distance from the school but were consistantly late because you couldn't be arsed getting up. You've moved out of the village, previous problems with lateness is continuing. Lateness disrupts the class while the teacher settles a child in and gets them set up for the day taking away from the others in the class.

You say your are 44, but you're coming across like a stroppy teenager.

Maybe the head thinks she can speed up your placing request and get your out of her hair!

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 20:21:25

Northern lurker.

Would you walk the verge along the M62 over Saddleworth Moor to get to school? No, neither would I walk the speed equivalent.

No free transport facility, we turned down a school so are not eligible.

Free school meals eligible, but I prefer to know exactly what my child is eating at lunch time, so I do packed lunches.

Shinyshoes1 Tue 08-Jan-13 20:21:45

Excuses excuses excuses that's all I've heard .

Don't buy chocolate and use the money for bus fares

Why don't you have money for bus fares?

I'm overweight , on anti Ds's , I have a thyroid problem and I work .
My child has been late twice since September .

If you have no money are you on benefits ? If so is your child entitled to free school meals ?

Get support and advice from the school.

There is no excuse .

OP - your sardonic and combative stance on this thread will not help you.

People are answering you honestly but you've got the arse.

Will it go against me in the forthcoming Vafcass report which their father wants to initiate too as part of his contact/custody case? - i wouldn't want to chance it. So i'd be looking at easier schools to get to if i were you.

SilveryMoon Tue 08-Jan-13 20:22:08

Right. I might get a flaming for this, but seriously? People seriously see the school's point about referring to SS because of lateness, lack of cardigan (even though she has a winter coat, and a chocolate drink in her lunchbox? Seriously? There are people who think this warrants investigation from SS? Really?
Ok, the lateness is a bit of an issue, but surely not for neglect? Neglect is a very strong word that I don't think should be thrown about as easily as what it sometimes is.
Ok, pylonic should be making more of an effort to get dd to school on time, but no way is this along with a chocolate drink enough to get SS involved.

RE speaking to your mum, schools are allowed to share information if they suspect the welfare of a child is at risk. I'm not sure that this includes your mum though.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Tue 08-Jan-13 20:22:12

So, just to be clear then. The school did not send for your mum or make any sort of appointment with her.
they spoke to her at the gate at the end of the day.

I think that I do understand how difficult it feels for you. but your language makes it seem although you do see the school as 'us and them'

There are problems here and it would be most helpful for your dd to work with the school to help sort them

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 20:22:18


A good point about the rocket! Quite possibly! grin

BarbarianMum Tue 08-Jan-13 20:23:36

Can the school report you to SS for persistent lateness? Yes, it can be a red flag for neglect and certainly disruptive to your dd education. If you are late because of buses etc for goodness sake say that, provided its a valid excuse (ie not a frequent service with 1 bus every 5 min).

However, beyond that. I have to say I'm not seeing any other signs of neglect based on the OP - forgetting a cardigan twice is not the same as regularly under-dressing a child, a cartoon of chocolate milk is not a problem if the rest of lunch is as the OP describes it.

It is nobody's business if the OP buys herself 6 bars of chocolate a day, as long as she feeds her children well.

Frankly, it sounds like the head has a negative relationship w you (and I can kind of see why tbh) and its colouring her interpretation of everything you do. Human nature is like that so in your own best interests (and that of your dd) I'd try and fall into line a bit more.

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 20:24:05

Exactly, meditrina.

We refused the offer of the only school place available. It is in the worst Ofsted rated school and is a good mile away. Given my history, it's preferable to stay on the waiting list for the school at the end of our road.

TunaPastaBake Tue 08-Jan-13 20:24:20

Free school meals eligible, but I prefer to know exactly what my child is eating at lunch time, so I do packed lunches.

Starting to lose my rag with this thread - OP is in financial dire straights - see other thread of hers - (just look at her profile - recent threads)- and turns down free school meals !

Utter utter bollocks - grow up OP !

Shinyshoes1 Tue 08-Jan-13 20:24:26

Apologies x posted and looking back I sound very harsh so apologies there also smile

You've asked for advice and people are trying to help but you don't seem to be taking it on board

The school can and will help you

If you don't know what is on the school lunch menu then ask , they will be glad you're taking an interest

I thought that most child protection protocol advises to raise issues with the parent/carer unless the child is thought to be in immediate danger?

Regardless of the issues, I think that the school has breached confidentiality.

Pylonic - nobody is asking you to walk on a motorway hmm I make sure my children get to school yes. That's very basic parenting.
If you can't afford bus fares and she could have free meals at school then YOU MUST do that. You cannot afford to be sniffy about her only having chocolate milk you've picked. I don't know what you were thinking refusing a place when you had no viable way to get the child to this school though. Can you contact the council again and see if that place is still there? Of course you would also have to get out of bed.

thesnootyfox Tue 08-Jan-13 20:25:48

Why did you turn down the school place?

AmberLeaf Tue 08-Jan-13 20:25:58

Have you had any contact from the education welfare officer?

Id be surprised at SS involvement without all avenues being exhausted first.

EWO would be the starting point and I agree with Silverymoon that this is not neglect just disorganisation, which if given some support could be overcome.

thesnootyfox Tue 08-Jan-13 20:26:29

Crossed posts.

Mynewmoniker Tue 08-Jan-13 20:26:40

Could Jeremy Kyle possibly help you, sweetheart?

Blu Tue 08-Jan-13 20:26:47

Pylonic, it sounds as if you have had and are having a rough time. But nevertheless your dd is happy and thriving. Which is good.

There's nothing on your OP that suggests actual neglect, but you do seem to be struggling a bit. Many people do, it isn't anything for anyone to feel defensive about.

I would guess that the Head spoke to your Mum because she knows her a bit and was trying to reach you via a sympathetic route so that you would listen to a well meant 'heads up'. In strict terms it breaks confidentiality, but if her intentions were good, why make an enemy.

The way I see it you can face all this in one of two ways. Be honest with yourself about where there is a problem and deal with it. If you are suffering with depression, do go to your GP. It really helps. ADs for 9 months saved me from a downward spiral. Sort the lateness. It will be good for your DD, it will give you a sense of achievement, and get the welfare officer off your back. Talk to the Head about your need for a transfer if you can't manage the bus fares and the unreliable public transport. In fact, go in and talk calmly with the Head.

Or you can turn this into a massive battle, looking ever more inward and seeing the world as your enemy.

Turn this around to your advantage and walk on by with your head held high.

Good luck.

TheSecondComing Tue 08-Jan-13 20:29:38

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

There doesn't have to be intent for there to be neglect. Disorganisation can lead to neglect. It's not ok because the parent pleads being a bit crap rather than being a bit mean.

givemeaclue Tue 08-Jan-13 20:30:10

But you couldn't get to school on time even when lived next to it so how is getting into a nearer school going to help?

Bottom line is you ave great advice on here re how to get organised to get to school on time. Give it a go, you don't want to be fined by education welfare

teacherwith2kids Tue 08-Jan-13 20:30:34

OP, I would ask which is more likely to harm your child's education:
1. Being at a school that you cannot afford to get her to and choose not to get there on time (do you pick up on time?), where the OPfsted is good but you choose to let her miss school time rather that prioritising this OR

2. Being placed on a temporary basis at a much closer school that you could walk to, with a relatively poor Ofsted.

Get on the phone tomorrow, get your child into a school where she can get there on time at no cost by accepting the place that you were given, and sign her up for FSM. Remain on the In year Admissions waiting list, as accepting the school 1 mile away will have no effect on the school that you really want.

The means to get your child to school on time, every day, is there for the taking, and is free (actually net positive to you as it will immediately save you the bus fare). Do it tomorrow.

How rude of you to barge into the nativity play with your son. The rule is there so that if small children make a noise and the parents don't take them out they dont totally spoil the play. Why should you be exempt from that rule???

You seem to be set against the school in everything, you have a very obvious contempt for the education system, you have made your daughter late for over six months, which is unacceptable and your daughter will have been stressed about that, whether you have noticed is debatable.

You need to go and speak to the head. She is your child and your responsibility.

You are in the wrong.

Also school doesn't have spares so that people who can't be bothered to send their child into school in proper clothes can wear them, they are for children who fall over in the mud or get wet at playtime.

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 20:32:32


Indifferent probably. Resigned. I'm not shocked, just mildly surprised. Not victimised, just curious about the process really. Problem with these threads is some people do not read their entirety and can jump in with random tangents (ie, nits? Where did that come from and why?)

For the benefit of everyone suggesting otherwise, I take full responsibility for my daughter, I don't feel victimised, agree that I have been lazy and blamed it on past issues with their father, and the point of the thread is to ask how many of you have been investigated by SS for neglect at infant school.

If you prefer to ignore that and rush in with all your cod psychology and build some kind of profile of me, I don't suppose I can stop you. Although of course it's very difficult to accurately build a picture of a complete stranger based on a few lines in an online forum.

Anyhow, apologies if I sound lax, I'm not the usual poster who can be easily riled with criticism or insults, been onMumsnet far too many years for that. But thank you for all your replies so far, there are some very interesting views for which I'm genuinely grateful.

Mrsrudolphduvall Tue 08-Jan-13 20:32:51

Why have nearly all your posts on other threads been withdrawn?

NcNcNcNc Tue 08-Jan-13 20:33:51

If you just stopped being so combative and admitted you needed help there are loads on here who could supply it.

Just say you are finding it hard and take the help for your dd.

('Help' as in advice/time not money obv.)

thesnootyfox Tue 08-Jan-13 20:34:10

Agree with teacherwith2kids. Spot on advice and entirely sensible given the circumstances.

teacherwith2kids Tue 08-Jan-13 20:35:09

MrsRudolph, I had presumed so that it becomes difficult to 'build up some kind of profile' which might shed a different light on this part-story. But that may just be me.

'the point of the thread is to ask how many of you have been investigated by SS for neglect at infant school'

Ah ok then. Well I have three dcs, third in Year 1 atm and no I've never been investigated for neglect. Hth.

Graceparkhill Tue 08-Jan-13 20:37:53

Do you mind me asking what your mother thinks? What was the outcome of the conversation with the HT from her perspective ?

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 20:38:03

Northern lurker

Hahagrin yes you are right, I'd have to get out of bed for that! Point taken smile

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 20:38:36


Read up thread for an sewer to that.

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 20:38:52

Answer, even, not sewer!

namchan Tue 08-Jan-13 20:38:59

Why did your daughter have dead lice in her hair for months? Why are you preventing her from accessing free school meals, which would free up money to get her to school on time?

Is this thread in any way making you question if the school have a point and that perhaps you are not coping and it is to the detriment of your child?

The current school should be able to provide you with a copy of their menu, so that you can see what meals are on offer daily.

Not claiming FSM when you're both eligible and in severe financial difficulty seems daft.

Did you atthe very least pay a visit to the school that you were offered, or did you dismiss it purely on the ofsted report?

It sounds like it's your mum doing a lot of the drop offs/pick ups. Is she not able to arrive at yours earlier to ensure that she's dropping off on time?

Mynewmoniker Tue 08-Jan-13 20:40:33

"been onMumsnet far too many years"

Then you should know better.

Perhaps it's time to get get off the forum, get your daughter organised for school tomorrow and get to bed so you don't oversleep ?

scottishmummy Tue 08-Jan-13 20:41:25

youre eligible for free school meals but decline?end up of pocket buying chocolate
accept the free meals, so dont need to buy money
youre not very ordered in your rationale, PS is bus pass cheaper than cash fares

Some of you are going way over the top.

Portofino Tue 08-Jan-13 20:41:52

Why did you turn down a school place if you could not afford the bus fair to the old one. Ofsted is a shit excuse if your dd is 5. She won't care - would probably more appreciate turning up in time.

DoodlesNoodles Tue 08-Jan-13 20:42:02

I remember reading your post about choosing a closer school with a poor reputation???? Would you be better off sending your DC there then you wouldn't have the cost (money and time) of getting them there.

RaisinBoys Tue 08-Jan-13 20:42:30

We all have tough lives - I suspect even the spiced legume consumers of Putney.

You seem to have a staggering lack of empathy for your daughter. Being late every day for 6 months marks her out, sets her apart from her classmates.

Have you asked her how it makes her feel?

Stop making excuses and get the earlier bus.

Incidentally, if you are 4 miles from school in a village location, are you not eligible for some sort of school bus arangement, free travel???

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 20:43:42

Yes, I can see I come across as lazy, cba, and rebellious.

I probably am to a small extent.

It isn't a brick wall though. I am very aware the ball is entirely in my court. It is all down to me. But probably best I left you all together onwiththis now,otherwise this constant response can be interpreted as attention seeking, such is the nature of threads sometimes. They have their own momentum, and the only real point of interest and usefulness to me Ihavegleaned from this is the head teacher's action in relaying confidential information, which may be unlawful as some of you have suggested. So that is the major point I will be taking away from this.

The remaining criticism is something I am already aware ofandmakingsteps to improve.

teacherwith2kids Tue 08-Jan-13 20:43:55

"We refused the offer of the only school place available. It is in the worst Ofsted rated school and is a good mile away. Given my history, it's preferable to stay on the waiting list for the school at the end of our road. "

You can do both - accept the 1 mile away place AND stay on the waiting list.

Tbh, the Ofsted rating is not what will have an effect on her education atm. It is her persistent lateness, and perhaps a general disregard of / lack of respect for school. Moving to a closer school should - if you can be bothered, and at least it would give you one less excuse - deal with the lateness immediately, AND save you money which (if you wish) you could continue to spend on packed lunches, though tbh I would suggest that FSM with a careful eye on the menu and possibly a food diary for a few weeks would be a better option.

TheSecondComing Tue 08-Jan-13 20:43:55

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TunaPastaBake Tue 08-Jan-13 20:44:47

Incidentally, if you are 4 miles from school in a village location, are you not eligible for some sort of school bus arangement, free travel???

OP turned down a school a mile away from her new home so I would think any chance of free travel to old school is out the window !

amillionyears Tue 08-Jan-13 20:46:13

pylonic, that was a better last post.
You do sound resigned to ss getting involved.
But I am not sure they would be necessarily brought in if you speak to the Head.
You seem to have lost some hope about it.
Do you feel able to ring up the school to ask for an appointment with the Head?
And maybe take someone with you when you have the appointment, to help make it all seem a bit less scary?

Pylonic honey why not accept the SS referral and the help they can offer you? Some good might come of it, for both your DD and yourself.

namchan Tue 08-Jan-13 20:47:12

Ah, so no it hasn't made you question anything at all really. Shame.

Hope you're feeling able to read this back tomorrow and step outside of yourself for a bit. Would be in your daughters best interest and ultimately yours too.

Perriwinkle Tue 08-Jan-13 20:47:23

Pylonic. You don't self diagnose depression but if you toddle along to your GP and have a chat he/she will have a bash at diagnosing you I'm sure. A lot of people out there are living on the edge and ADs help to keep them functioning. Surely you've got to think it's worth looking into for the sake of your children's wellbeing and welfare?

And if you only take away one piece of advice from this thread, please take that of GinAndaDashOfLimeTue 08-Jan-13 20:17:57

Portofino Tue 08-Jan-13 20:47:50

I would LET SS help you. It sounds as if you need it. Why not get a plan in place and sort this all out?

amillionyears Tue 08-Jan-13 20:47:58

ah,I think I may have missed possibly a whole page of posts.

EnjoyResponsibly Tue 08-Jan-13 20:48:51

The confidential information part is not the major part to take away with you.

It maybe a part, but it's secondary to he fact that posters in the know have advised you yes you could be in trouble with various agencies because of things you could correct.

Surely that's the major thing to take away?

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 20:49:30

Mynewmoniker says

'Can Jeremy Kyle possibly help you, sweetheart?'

Eew. What a horribly prejudiced attitude you have.

amillionyears Tue 08-Jan-13 20:49:34

Try not to just focus on the bit of the thread that you liked.

scottishmummy Tue 08-Jan-13 20:49:58

can i suggest dont be lazy, cba, and rebellious. be open,amenable and engaged
do accept the fsm, sure theyre not haute cuisine but hot and nutritious and free
if you present as amenable and engaged this will all feel better for you and progress well

JambalayaCodfishPie Tue 08-Jan-13 20:50:05

The only real point of interest and usefulness to me Ihavegleaned from this is the head teacher's action in relaying confidential information, which may be unlawful as some of you have suggested. So that is the major point I will be taking away from this.

This is the major point? Not acceptance of anything you could do better, just the fact that you have ammunition against someone with genuine concerns for your daughter? hmm

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 20:52:09

I've noticed that mrsrudolph. I asked for all old posts to be withdrawn as someone in real life had recognised my online footsteps. They don't seem to have withdrawn them all though, just random ones.

Also, youcan claim FSM but still send in a packed lunch if there's a day when the menu doesn't suit.

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 20:53:08


She thinks it is none of their business. My daughter is thriving.

scottishmummy Tue 08-Jan-13 20:53:27

major point to take away is your actions have caused concern.address that.pronto
whats your daily routine,nutrition like, is your health you see gp for depression

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 20:54:04


You must be confusing me with someone else.
My daughter doesn't have lice nor has she had them in her hair for several months.

McBalls Tue 08-Jan-13 20:54:10

Has been asked already, but not answered:

how do your finances affect getting to school on time? Would make sense if you we're saying she couldn't get there at all but you're not...

And I was thinking the head mentioning you buying chocolate was ridiculous, but wondering now if it was a financial thing rather than nutritional - ie you tell the school there is literally not the money to get dd to school (on time?) yet you buy chocolate and they just wanted to point out that actually it is within your control to prioritise more responsibly.

If somebody recognises you then you need to namechange.

OP - get a grip on yourself for the sake of your kids please. Are you going to get her there on time tomorrow?

LIZS Tue 08-Jan-13 20:55:43

Going back to your original question . Yes the school has a duty to report circumstances which lead them to even question the welfare of a child, similarly that could apply to any childminder, nursery, club leader, guider etc, or even fellow parent . The school should have a Safeguarding policy which you coudl ask to see if not on website and there will be a system of reporting issues to named individuals which might include a specific member of staff then LA , SS, Police etc depending on the nature and urgency of it. The HT is not there to judge you but to pass concerns on to the relevant agency. If the Ofsted of this school isn't great what is the risk in moving to the one you were offered if it removes some of the barriers to your child accessing the full benefit of education.

As to the conversation between HT and your mother , was the word "neglect" really mentioned or is that perhaps her interpretation. I'd be surprised if it went beyond the factual examples.

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 20:56:59


A lot of people seem to be cross referencing past threads, so if I can direct you there too you will find all the answers you need.

DoodlesNoodles Tue 08-Jan-13 20:57:00

If you are worried that you have been recognised on mumsnet dont you think you should change your nickname confused

namchan Tue 08-Jan-13 20:58:01

Oh right, sorry then, just going on the posts upthread. Apologies if I misunderstood the conversation between you and TSC, unintentional.

marquesas Tue 08-Jan-13 20:58:31

Why are you concentrating on the fact that the HT may have spoken out of turn when the issue is that you're letting your daughter down. Really I think you should let that go and try as hard as you can to get her to school.

It's not acceptable to refuse to claim the free school meals, you are in dire financial straits and school food nowadays is of good enough quality that you can't use that as an excuse.

TheBOF Tue 08-Jan-13 20:59:36

In normal circumstances, I'd say it would be worth arguing the toss about the confidentiality thing, but if they've pegged you as unwilling to engage, then I think you will just be exacerbating the problem if you make that the focus of your communication with the school. It's just a fact of life that you have to cooperate with school as much as possible if you want to stay off their radar, and with all due respect, you don't sound very collaborative in your approach to problem-solving generally. Perhaps you should concentrate on improving that, with your timekeeping, to help yourself?

Mrsrudolphduvall Tue 08-Jan-13 21:00:31

This all feels very odd to me......Responses are a bit strange.

ReallyTired Tue 08-Jan-13 21:00:33

Schools only refer to outside agencies when parents refuse to discuss problems and hide their heads in the sand. I feel you need to do the following.

1) register your child for free school dinners. No one will do, its not like in the past when the poor children made humilated by being made to sit on a seperate table or stand in a different queue. School dinners have improve dramatically and most my son's class have them. We have no clue who has free dinners and who doesn't.

2) You definately need to see a doctor. It sounds like as if you lost all sense of priority. Severe depression/ anxiety can really screw up thinking.

3) Are there any other schools which you would accept a place at other than the one at the end of your road or the one that in special measures?

4) Would you consider getting a bike. I am sure there must be routes for getting to school that do not involve the M62 or other fast roads.

5) You have been through a hard time over the last few years. Are you having cope for coping with the emotional damage from domestic violence.

We had a warning letter threatening to refer us to an educational welfare officer and inviting us to see the head. My year 6 son was repeatly late due to dawling. I had no idea as he walked to school by himself. We formed a plan and had a star chart for getting my son to school on time. I think the school wants to help, but it is impossible if the parent is acting like a sulky teen.

Blu Tue 08-Jan-13 21:02:00

Depression isn't about attitude, e.g optimism. It's a chemical imbalance in the brain.

I would take away from this thread that yes, if concerns about lateness seem to co-incide with other concerns about a child's life, yes they could,apparantly, inform SS that they are concerned.
But as the Head has chosen to talk with your mum rather than go straight to SS, you could maybe cut out the middle man and explain to the Head that the other things are matters of circumstance and co-incidence, and put a stop to her concerns.

And put your dd on FSM. They publish a menu - either online or the school should be able to give you one, and they have to be able to give a list of ingredients, too. It makes no sense to prioritise packed lunch over bus fares to get her to school.

And given that you say the children's father would happily use any 'card' against you I would sort all this out and get it off your plate asap. The easy way. If you have an ex behaving like that you wnat people ON YOUR SIDE. Not fighting official complaints about talking to your own Mum.

TheBOF Tue 08-Jan-13 21:03:07

Did the headlice thread get deleted? The way I recall it was that you hadn't removed old nit cases from six months ago, to the point where a hairdresser refused to cut your child's hair, and again, rather than taking it on the chin that it gave the appearance of poor hygiene, you focussed on your belief that the hairdresser should take your word for it that there was no current infestation. I'm pretty sure that's how it went and that I'm not confusing you with another poster.

Crouchendmumoftwo Tue 08-Jan-13 21:07:02

Hi Pylonic,

I think if they have spoken to your mum it's because they were getting nowhere with you or they feel you have too much of an attitude which does come across on here.

I wouldnt waste time throwing daggers at the head about confidentially I would eat humble pie and go and see him/her immediately and talk about the issues and how you can resolve them rather than wasting energy elsewhere. This is a huge red flag for you, it is serious, you need to get your head around that. I feel you probably do need to see the welfare officer as you are not coping or finding solutions to the hurdles in life that we all face.

I also feel you have anger and depression issues which are quite serious too and you need to get help.

You say your daughter draws happy pictures and really seem a bit dismissive about that and say she is thriving when clearly the school do not. You know kids do pretend and act stuff to their parents to please them don't you.

I have been the daughter of a single mum with a mum with 'issues' yes I smiled and seemed thriving but I was also impacted by my mums behaviour and I still am at the age of 44.

I urge you to get off your high horse seek help and really think about putting your daughter first or you will live to regret it like my mum does now. SHe has been making up for it for years.

You really do need to take this seriously and stop saying stupid things like lateness runs in our family. Your poor daughter you are not giving her a good start at all. She might be better living with her dad or you mother who might give her the rightful care she deserves.

Wake up.

TheSecondComing Tue 08-Jan-13 21:07:14

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Feelingood Tue 08-Jan-13 21:08:13

Maybe you should leave the thread now and get ready for tomorrow

Packed lunch
Shoes and coats by door
Even put cereal bowls out.

thank you and goodnight...

Ps set two alarms.

namchan Tue 08-Jan-13 21:09:31

Op, i know its hard sometimes, I currently feel like I am trying to walk through treacle some mornings, but you really need to have a think about what your priorities are.

WeAreEternal Tue 08-Jan-13 21:11:29

At the end of the day it is all your own fault.

I’m sure there are many MNers that struggle to get out of bed on a morning, or for various other reasons find mornings difficult. However, we all manage to get our children to school on time.
Living nine minutes away but constantly being late for six months is ridiculous! Blaming an alarm clock and bad sleeping can only go so far. It is over 180 days that you were unable to get your DC to school on time, do you not see how bad that looks from the schools point of view?
One question, on those 180+ days were you able to get yourself dressed? put on make up? style your hair?
On a couple of occasions I have overslept, or not realised the time and with the possibility of being late I have run DS to school with my hair scraped up into a clip and no make up on just to ensure that he gets there on time, it really isn’t that hard.

And now you have a bus to get. What exactly stops you from getting the earlier bus?
Finances are not an issue, I can almost guarantee that you would be entitled to some sort of a bus pass, at least for your DC.
But why do you have to make the trip twice? You say you go there and home and then back and home and then back to pick up, why?
If you cant afford to pay for two return trips, and since you don’t work, why can you not just stay in the village all day? since you have to be there every couple of hours anyway.

The uniform issue, if you have more than one school cardigan for your DC then there is no excuse for her to EVER be without on. It is a simple system, we all do it, when one cardigan/jumper is on the child the other is in the wash, that way they always have one clean. You can wash and dry a cardigan in the time she is at school, so even if the one she was wearing that day is dirtied there is no reason she wont have a clean one for the next day.
If that system seems too hard then your other option is to buy more cardigans and have them on rotation.

If the school don’t like children to have chocolate in their lunchbox, which most don’t, why continue to send her with it?
TBH I would never consider sending DS with a chocolate drink for his lunch, those things are not really suitable for a school packed lunch.

I have to admit that you sound very defensive and it wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if the school have labelled you as unapproachable. It sounds like on the few occasions that they have tried to talk to you about issues or concerns that you have been quite dismissive of them, and then continued to repeat the same problems. No wonder they thought it might be a good idea to talk to your mother, because they probably felt that their concerns were not being addressed from discussing them with you.

You NEED to have good communication with your child’s school, after all they look after your child every day of the week. You want them to be able to discuss things with you.

I think you should make an appointment to see the head, ask exactly what their concerns are, and listen without interrupting. Then when it is your turn explain your problems but tell them that you are wanting to improve and that you would welcome any support that they could offer. I imagine you would be surprised by the help that they could actually offer you.

All in all from everything that you have told us I think as things currently stand the school ANBU to consider contacting SS, I doubt this has as much to do with the lateness as the fact that you are unwilling to discuss your problems with them, instead you just fob them off with excuses.

Oh and while it is awful that you and your DCs lived with DV it is not an excuse that can be applied to every situation.
Many people suffer and recover from DV and still manage to get their children to school on time as well a all of the other things you are blaming on your history of DV.

Blu Tue 08-Jan-13 21:13:02

Again, so it can't be missed:

Sort this out, get the Head on your side, SO THAT YOU AREN'T HANDING AMMUNITION TO YOUR EX.

edam Tue 08-Jan-13 21:13:54

Right, I think you do need to go and see the GP about potential depression. Depression is not a moral issue - if you have it, it doesn't make you a bad person. It's an illness that can affect the way you cope with life, including looking after your dd. Get help - you owe it to your dd.

I think you also need to start talking openly and constructively with the school. Approach them with 'OK, I understand you have concerns, what are they and how can we work together to resolve them in dd's best interests'. You need to focus on dd, not on arguing with the school. Even if they are wrong, it won't help if you go in all guns blazing - that will merely add to the impression that you really don't get it.

You won't get the head to go away and keep quiet about it by being aggressive. You will assuage her concerns by listening carefully and co-operating.

Hope you get the help you need.

McBalls Tue 08-Jan-13 21:13:55

Why are you directing me to other threads? hmm

I asked you a question relating to THIS thread, I don't care whether others are referencing other threads or not.

In the reply to me you may as well have answered the question, so I'll ask again: how do your finances affect getting to school on time? Would make sense if you we're saying she couldn't get there at all but you're not...

ravenAK Tue 08-Jan-13 21:15:30

Yes - the nits was the ds rather than the dd iirc.

Seriously, OP, if in your interaction with school you come across as unfocused on priorities as you do on this thread, whether deliberately to annoy or because depression is making you a tad disconnected, then their concern is understandable.

You need to start accepting help.

Pancakeflipper Tue 08-Jan-13 21:20:12

I think it all sounds abit chaotic and that's probably what is worrying the teaching staff.

I honestly would go for the free meals and pupil premimum ( I am sure it's called that) as there's funding then for you child for other activities like school trips - this will be one less worry for you.

I don't want to make judgements but I am going to add this in - you sound to have strong principals and views.. My mother had those and oh blimey how I craved to the 'normal' kid. Not the one who stood out in class. It's draining being the kid who stands out. I don't mean be a sheep but there's a balance to be struck.

Aspiemum2 Tue 08-Jan-13 21:26:02

Are you sure there's no uniform assistance available? I thought I remembered reading something about you being in East Midlands?
Just checked the gov website and it says local councils can offer assistance with uniform (England only)
Might be worth double checking

Pancakeflipper Tue 08-Jan-13 21:28:08

Also do the school PTA organise uniform sales of second hand uniform? Often a bun/ book sales. Ours does and you can get the logo jumper/ cards for 50p.

Ooh Pancake, good point about 2nd hand uniform.

tiggytape Tue 08-Jan-13 22:28:33

I am sorry you are having a tough time and I don't understand fully the school involving your mother but a couple of the things you mention and admit to are markers for neglect and something that teachers are told to look out for and report.

It is not up to the Head to come to your house to judge you (I know you not her suggested that). Teaching staff have a duty to teach your child and to look out for potential welfare issues which they must then report to SS who deal with these things. Teachers do not do house suitability inspections.

I understand you feeling naturally defensive and hurt but all you can do is address the legitimate concerns (lateness and appropriate food and clothing) and indicate that you are turning this around on your own without the need to push you further. If you are struggling to turn these things around then a referral to SS may be able to help. I know people fear intervention but the aim is to help you and support you past this.

WeeWeeWeeAllTheWayHome Tue 08-Jan-13 22:52:51

Why are people bringing up nits? I can't see that it's relevant <<confused>>

TheBOF Tue 08-Jan-13 22:59:38

It's relevant because a) the way that thread went showed the OP doesn't find accepting other viewpoints easy, and b) because it showed she hadn't seen it as at all problematic to leave six-month old nit cases in a child's hair, when most other parents flagged it as a hygiene issue: this could also point to neglecting a child's needs, and might be part of a pattern which the school has noticed.

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 23:46:08


Yes that thread was divided with some people agreeing that dead nit cases are no cause for concern and other people considering that it was child abuse.

The term Child Abuse was used.

Not removing every single nit shell is now considered Child the minority community of some Mumsnetters.

It's all great advertising revenue generating publicity for the site though. Towers just love these controversial threads.

What was the question again?

I hate kittens. I started a thread about it once. I'm waiting for someone to link it into this thread too wink

TheBOF Tue 08-Jan-13 23:50:23

I don't think it's child abuse, btw. But it doesn't come across well, in the great scheme of things. Maybe taking concerns on board a bit more would help with keeping SS out of the picture? I can appreciate that you don't agree there's a problem, but sometimes you have to be seen to be making an effort and engaging to make your life run a bit more smoothly.

TheSecondComing Tue 08-Jan-13 23:53:17

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MollyMurphy Tue 08-Jan-13 23:57:25

1. The school can report to anyone they please.

2. It is TOTALLY an unacceptable breech of confidentiality to speak to you Mum instead of you the guardian and parent. I would complain very high up the chain about that.

3. I work with SS but in another country. Where I am their late concerns would not consititue a "child protection" concern so it would probably be screened, you'd be called about the concerns and then it would be closed with a talking to.

4. Its a bit ridiculous that you are not tackling this issue head on by just getting your kid to school on time. Making up an excuse like you have "insomnia" opens the door for people to insinuate that you need parenting support because you have a health or mental health struggle - that does you NO favors.

5. I would not invite the school to your house but have a meeting with the principal directly to try to resolve the matter. Its not their place to 'investigate your home'.

Only you know if there is behaviour going on that gives off a poor impression. Is your kids showing up under dressed in poor weather? Is it really reasonable to have your child late for school every day even after being warned? Are you purposely not following the school lunch are probably not neglectful at all but you should very seriously consider how you come off to others again...because you do yourself no favors to do otherwise.

MollyMurphy Wed 09-Jan-13 00:07:19

If you kids have had untreated lice for periods of time, that can get an open investigation - I have done poor hygeine/lice investigations. Under our legislation it can be classified as an emotional abuse issue - something that could affect other kids/teachers desire to interact with your child leading to social isolation.

TheBOF Wed 09-Jan-13 00:10:35

Tbf, I gather that the live lice had been long since dealt with, Molly, but I don't think the OP really considered that leaving the shells would cause the sort of issues you mention.

SolomanDaisy Wed 09-Jan-13 00:13:13

The head teacher appears to be making a sensible decision to refer to SS. I hope they are able to work with you to help your daughter have a less chaotic life. Hopefully you might develop some insight into your own actions too.

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 00:31:14

SecondComing. You are very quick to jump in with personal insults. Is there something you would prefer to share with me personally instead of hiding behind the anonymity of online threads, because I can give you my telephone number if you like.

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 00:32:49


No, the children do not have untreated headline. You are referring to old threads that SecondComing is trying to use as flamethrowers.

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 00:35:32

'The kid' has been getting to school roughly on time for the past few months. The late issues were addressed and improved on.

This post is about infant schools and their ability to involve SS.

TheSecondComing Wed 09-Jan-13 00:50:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mamadoc Wed 09-Jan-13 01:11:45

I haven't personally been investigated for neglect but was closely involved recently in supporting a friend who was.

Solely on your main points:
Can the school refer? Yes they can. They don't need to justify their concerns to you it is enough that they are concerned and it is then for SS to assess what response is needed. That might be just a one off visit or might escalate to formal child protection procedures which is what you want to avoid.

Should you speak to the head? Maybe but don't expect to persuade her to withdraw the SS referral. It is for SS to assess if there is any merit to the schools concerns. It will look better if you are co-operating with the school to address the issues. If you go in all guns blazing throwing counter-accusations about confidentiality you will be labelled difficult. I wouldn't go any further than, 'I'm disappointed you didn't discuss this with me first.'

Should they have spoken to your mum? Its not cut and dried IMHO. Of course it would have been better to speak to you directly but I'm not sure its actually illegal to speak to your mum. Child protection is a clear exception to confidentiality rules. They could argue that they were acting to protect DD although they should really leave any info gathering to SS.

Will it play badly with CAFCASS? Yep. Although I can't see that it would outweigh his DV. Ideal if you have some proof of this eg police reports, witnesses.

If they have actually made a referral then the school (and mumsnet) are the least of your problems. You should be ready to justify your actions eg in turning down a nearby school place and refusing FSM to a social worker. These could be viewed as not acting in the child's best interests. If they advise you to eg go to GP for assessment I would strongly recommend you do it whatever you think.

This is a really serious situation where you need to tread very carefully. My friend was referred by the school for similar issues, similar background Hx and it got very serious. She went the route of 'standing up to them' and it was a major mistake. The decks are stacked against you and its very high stakes. Appeasement is the way to go.

MerryCouthyMows Wed 09-Jan-13 01:41:00

I can't see why you can't just get up earlier and catch an earlier bus?! I am on benefits, and have to catch buses to get my two older DS's to school.

This involves me getting up at 6.45am, despite my pain-related insomnia (hard to get to sleep when you are in constant pain from rheumatoid arthritis). It also involves me getting my teenage DD with Autism up and out of the house on time, getting my 10yo and 9yo DS's ready (9yo DS2 also has Autism, and physical difficulties that make it harder for him to actually physically get dressed and get ready), AND get my 23mo toddler with dxd hyperactivity dressed and ready.

What possible reason can there be for not leaving early enough to guarantee that your DC's will get to school on time?!

I leave at 8am to be at school for 9, and it's technically only a 20 minute bus journey. When my bus journey was an hour, I left at 7.30.

I HATE mornings, and am rarely compos me rid before 10.30am. But my DC's are still at school on time unless it has snowed (bus issues but only in snow).

I think it is wrong to say you can't afford the bus fares - I pay those before I do the food shopping! Getting my DC's to school on time is paramount, otherwise it disrupts both their education AND that of their classmates.

Tbh, I can see why the school are wanting to call in SS.

I have a DS that NEVER wears a jumper, not even in below zero temperatures. He wears a coat, non-negotiable, and he also has a jumper that stays on his peg - it means buying one that he will never wear, but it keeps the school happy!

I think the school calling your mum in is wrong, one because it breaches the Data Protection Act, which I would complain about (the only time they are allowed to divulge personal information like that to your mum is if she has a residency order for the DC's!).

I would first make damn sure that I got my DC's to school on time, no excuses - I set three separate alarms this morning! Then I would buy another school jumper, they are less than £10, and keep it on her peg so she has one at school. Then I would kick up a stink in writing about the school discussing my private business with other people in blatant breach of the Data Prptection Act.

Yes, CAFCASS can and WILL use this information in court. If you want to continue to be the resident parent, I suggest you get up and get your DC's to school on time!

MerryCouthyMows Wed 09-Jan-13 01:46:36

The FSM's thing - you can claim them but not use them. The reason the school (especially a small village school) wants you to claim them isn't for the food itself, but for the £500 a year pupil premium that is paid to the school each year for each DC that CLAIMS for FSM's (irrespective of whether they actually eat those meals or takes their own in).

Just claim the damn FSM's. It's the pupil premium the school is after. And they are meant to use it to directly benefit that child - so some of it can be used to go towards school trips. So it WILL benefit your DD if you claim FSM's, even if she still takes in a packed lunch.

deXavia Wed 09-Jan-13 02:55:17

So here's your future post - HT calls in SS, you are as combative with them as you are with the school. You argue technicality and the stupidity of their rules as oppose to accept help and change basic behaviour to improve your kid's life. Meanwhile your kids are singled out for being late, not in uniform and 'nits' (don't for one minute think other kids care about live or dead casings if you're the 'nitty kid') - and please do read Ginandadashoflimes post.
Your ex takes all of this and uses it against you - gets either 50/50 residency or possible primary care. Not because your are neglectful (although not sure if lazy and CBA doesn't add up to that to a small degree) but because you can't get over your own issues about authority and being told what do to.
Just stop, seriously just stop fighting and think of this future - is it really worth the risk? Your Ex hit you, do you want him as primary carer? Can you not compromise, play their rules enough to stop this happening. Maybe I'm painting a bleak picture but we've all seen worse on here. Stop fighting the small battles and look at the bigger picture for the sale if your kids

MollyMurphy Wed 09-Jan-13 03:11:41

any school can report to SS anything they like. schools are common referral sources to SS. there is no recourse, because by law any adult must report anything they feel constitutes neglect or abuse and its up to SS to determine if those concerns are founded.

meditrina Wed 09-Jan-13 07:02:22

If pylonic is still reading: grateful if you could clarify the time lines in OP.

You said DD has been late for school since start of year 1 (ie 4 months ago), but that the lateness has been going on for 9 months (6 months at old address and 3 months since move). Is it a typo, or has the lateness indeed been going on for longer? It's well over half her time in school, so I can see the concern.

I hope you're up, and DD will be on time today.

tiggytape Wed 09-Jan-13 07:38:45

If you are asking whether the school has a right to involve SS, then the answer is yes.

In fact where they suspect abuse or neglect of any child (because of red flags or markers that make them believe it is a possibility), they have a legal, professional and moral duty to report it.

If you don't want them involved then you best bet is full cooperation with the school. You cannot spend the next 13 years of your childs young years kicking against 'pointless' rules just because that is your personality.
Marching into assembly with a young sibling when nobody else was allowed to is one thing but conformity in certain areas that the wider world consider a child's best interests is necessary eg getting to school on time.

If they do become involved, the idea is that they help and support you in turning around the areas that you admit haven't gone well.

lljkk Wed 09-Jan-13 07:42:41

"We refused the offer of the only school place available. It is in the worst Ofsted rated school and is a good mile away."

What was the Ofsted overall grading & what are the SAT results like at the mile-away school? How bad is "the worst" rating?

cory Wed 09-Jan-13 09:02:29

pylonic Tue 08-Jan-13 20:32:32

"For the benefit of everyone suggesting otherwise, I take full responsibility for my daughter, I don't feel victimised, agree that I have been lazy and blamed it on past issues with their father, and the point of the thread is to ask how many of you have been investigated by SS for neglect at infant school."

I have. In my case, totally unjustly, as the results of dd's medical condition were interpreted as neglect and attention seeking on my part. And I was screaming inside to tell these people exactly what I thought of them and how they had not right to treat me like that.

But I had to think of dd, both in terms of what would be best for her education at the time and what kind of life skills I would be teaching her by example. And I realised the only way to get us out of there would be by cooperating with SS and EWOs, inviting them into our home, listening courteously to their concerns, explaining exactly what I was doing to address their points and asking for help where I needed it.

8 years down the line, dd's problems still persist. But there isn't a professional who isn't on our side and dd is getting the help she needs to overcome her problems.

It hurt like hell. But I was doing it for dd.

That is how you need to think. If your depression is still a problem- get help, for your dd's sake. If you struggle for money- get free school dinners, for your dd's sake. If the head is hostile- don't aggravate him, for your dd's sake. If there is any way you could solve the transport problems (by accepting a place at the local school and staying on the waiting list)- do it for your dd's sake.

She will learn better in an environment where home and school are not at loggerheads, and her learning will affect the whole of her future.

adeucalione Wed 09-Jan-13 09:10:12

I think that you are a loving mum and that your refusal to accept FSM and the offer of a place at a less-than-satisfactory local school comes from best intentions.

However, I think that you need to acknowledge that accepting FSM and a place at a rubbish school will not harm your child as much as you yourself - through your actions, choices and decisions - are harming her.

As many others have said, there is no excuse for many of the issues that the school has raised and your first thought should be about how to improve the life chances of your daughter (not whether the HT broke confidentiality rules etc).

You say that lateness runs in your family, and yet you are setting this awful example to your daughter that makes it more likely that she will also grow up with lateness issues and all that that entails (such as what you are going through now).

If the HT spoke to my mother about my parenting I would be mortified - not because she is wrong, or over-zealous, or breaking confidentiality, but because someone who knows what they're talking about has looked at me and feels that I am failing my child.

I hope your DD was on time today, and that you open a dialogue with the school with a view to accepting any help on offer.

deXavia Wed 09-Jan-13 09:43:39

Standing ovation for cory

marquesas Wed 09-Jan-13 09:51:46

You say that the nearby school has the worst Ofsted rating, as I understand it that means that the school is likely to be getting extra help to improve and more regular inspections. That could certainly be seen as a good thing and not necessarily a reason not to go there. A school that was rated good 3 years ago might be rubbish now but you don't know because Ofsted haven't been.

I wouldn't get hung up on that point. I did read the thread about the nits, I don't know how posters remember it was you as it seems to have been deleted, and tbh you do come over as someone with a bit of a problem in your dealings with people who you disagree with.

Please think of your childrens' futures (and get the FSMs claimed today)

Farewelltoarms Wed 09-Jan-13 10:11:12

Sorry this is a bit of an aside and a question to others as much as OP, but how is it possible to oversleep when you've got children? I have human alarm clocks that come with no snooze button who wake me up at 6.30 every morning.
Pylonic, what was your dd doing while you were sleeping? If she was sleeping herself, then you need to get her to bed earlier. If she's getting her own breakfast and watching TV then you can see how persistent lateness is a flag for, er, a slightly relaxed form of parenting.
I absolutely see why schools pounce on lateness. It's not so much the missing register etc, but it can be symptomatic of something much wider.

Lancelottie Wed 09-Jan-13 10:11:24

Cory and OP,

We were also flagged to SS when oldest was having serious school problems and behaving bizarrely (since diagnosed with Aspergers). Made me want to take him and run far, far from the system, but we bit our tongues and told them how grateful we were for their concern and asked what they could do to get the referrals to happen faster (bugger all, as it turned out, but hey ho).

Cooperate. Be nice to the head. Apologise. And take the free, local place and the free meals.

fuzzpig Wed 09-Jan-13 10:17:51

Have to admit I was shocked about them going to your mum, and also the chocolate thing confused but you lost me at the nativity play thing TBH. It is not a surprise that the school have you pegged as oppositional and defiant. I am also really astounded that you haven't claimed a nearer school place or free meals. I would jump on the FSM if we were entitled to it.

I have been referred to SS twice. Once in my first pregnancy when I disclosed the childhood abuse and self harm/depression - the midwife wanted to check my baby wasn't at risk. I'm not sure if it was also because I was young (19) but that's by the by really - as Cory and others have said, it is NOT the time to stand up to authority. I was upset of course, but we just tidied up the flat, made sure we looked presentable (self care is not our strong point) and welcomed the SW into our home with a cuppa and a chat about how excited we were about our little girl, and our plans for bringing her up, and even how we were talking to the bump. And I told the truth - yes, I was at risk of PND, but I promised that I would seek help if it occurred (which I did). A few weeks later we got a report from the SW saying he had no concerns. Job done.

The second time was pretty recent - things have been very very tough with both of us being ill/injured, won't bore you with the details as I've posted far too often already. But I asked to be referred - because you know, SWs are nice people! They care and they WANT to help. We have a family outreach worker (you could have one too since you have a child under 5) and she is coming tomorrow to discuss a common assessment framework for my 3yo, as a way of bringing together all the agencies that we need to help us. We have had a SW round who was trying to work out what they could do.

They are not the enemy, and neither are your DD's teachers. They just want to help your DD. Let them!

It's a cliche, but you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

salt1 Wed 09-Jan-13 10:21:24

i have worked with some brilliant welfare officers and they may be able to offer you some very good support.

fuzzpig Wed 09-Jan-13 10:24:03

BTW just wanted to add that although depression has a stigma attached in the general population (which is wrong of course), there is no need to worry about how SWs will see you if you admit to depression. They are quite used to it.

I explained to the various professionals such as SW/FORW/HV about my history - abuse, depression, self harm, and now possible diagnoses of OCD and/or Aspergers, and honestly nobody batted an eye.

I have accepted all help offered and have - largely thanks to MN advice I must say - explored many routes for getting help by phoning various agencies. In fact the SW said how impressed she was that I seemed to already have things underway.

Please get help for your depression.

mam29 Wed 09-Jan-13 10:26:47

just few questions.

what year is child in? only reason ask is infants-how much longer she there, where will she go for juniors?

Do you have younger siblings in tow on school run,

Can empathise with crap buses

My dd old school head insisted on logo cardigans £12 each to which child would frequently lose and parents would moan. I never brought 5 she had 3 on rotaion and 1 jumper as it was £2 cheaper.

New schools happy for lon logo stuff and can get decent navy cardie for fiver from asda or matalan so she now has 5cardigans makes my life lot easier as have 3kids and loads washing. sugest maybe get couple cheapy in correct colour. Although in eldests class tehys eem to take cardies off and always come out without it on.

If eligible for free school meals then would try, mine loves school dinners bu costs £1.75 a day Her school does have healthy packed lunch policy which means no crisps.

typical packed lunch-no houmous is

sandwich, roll or wrap
breadsticks andphili
some chopped carrots, cucucmber/tomatos
value fromage frais
value cereal bar.
small carton of value orange juice lidls also does prepacked juice cartons cheap-i would keep milkshake and chocolate for at home.
I think if you consistantly this term keep packed lunch ealthy then that can be brought up as issue.

I have on on occasion been late.

not as late as you but did get letter from head.
its mainly down to it affecting their ofsted in our schoosl case.

Usually it was

dd overslept-she has no sense urgency.
sibling playing up either toddler throwing herself on pavement
or baby having screaming fit.

I went into head and explained these reasons.

Im up at 6 every day
I get thinsg ready night before
yes dd prone to losing her shoes and her bags as shes quite scatty.

I have been late twice last term and we moved schools so have 39+min walk and thats better then when had 15min walk.

I would be annoyed about mum thing very odd.

I would keep calm maybe take freind in with you so you witness of what was said.

long term I would move fresh start.

I did have issue with middle childs nursery.I was very upset i cleared up their concerens they apologised and we moved on although did think of moving but daughter loves it there.

It doesnt sound like shes neglected.

you need a solution to finances -free meals free up money for bus fairs.

I doubt lea will pay bus if nearby school has a place.

Go to gp-if need help.

kittens Wed 09-Jan-13 10:33:04

You sound like you are getting a hard time. There are things the school can do to help you. If you are on benefits (eligible for Free School Meals) the school are allocated pupil premium to help support your child. They can use this money to help your child in the mornings , for example in my school it was used to fund breakfast club places for 3 children in a family who were always late, they are never late now as the parents drop them early and they get a good breakfast. There are grants available for school uniform to ensure you have enough cardigans.

Perhaps the conversation with the head should not be a slanging match, but ask her what she can to help you get your child to school on time.

Hope this helps.

Did you get her there on time today?

And did you have a chance to speak to the head teacher? How did that go?

realcoalfire Wed 09-Jan-13 13:02:32

getting to school late, is not good, probably disruptive to the school, the other children and your own child, but is it neglect ? No!
I don't understand the HTs actions .Firstly she is absolutely bang out of order to speak to your mother about this, and secondly it is surely a matter for the EWO not SS.
The first thing I would do is write a very calm , considered , formal letter to the school outlining the breach of confidentiality issues and requesting a meeting to discuss her allegations in person.

lljkk Wed 09-Jan-13 14:28:27

I am still desperate to have more details about school OP turned down <<Stamping feet & sulking>>

audlangsyne Wed 09-Jan-13 14:44:56


You may have moved on from this post already, but I thought it worth posting in case not (having read through last night and slept on it).

What is missing from the responses here is the question: How are you feeling about the school's actions (or threat of actions)?

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the way your DD is being treated by you, on which everyone has an opinion, I think it is important how you feel?

This is just a guess, because I am also a single mum with a history of violence (against me - not DV but other violence). If I think that someone is criticizing me/ judging me/ trying to take away my control of situations, it triggers off old feelings from the time when I was a victim of violence and I feel many strong emotions.

I've learnt the hard way, after various run-ins/fights with people over the years, that being defensive/ antagonistic is counter-productive in the end, as it breaks other relationships.

You didn't deserve to be a victim of violence. But it's really important, in my experience, not to 'project' the feelings from then onto others, leading to a disproportionate response.

For example, you might feel not the normal "annoyance" that children are excluded from the audience of the nativity, but tap into "rage" against people who set rules that you are supposed to follow (reminding you of being controlled by DV abuser). If, instead of acknowledging and processing those feelings - e.g. I feel rage, I felt rage when I was trapped being controlled by someone else's rules before, I don't need to feel rage now and can feel sorry for the self who was a victim of violence as well as a lesser sorrow that my children can't see the nativity - then you will ACT them out e.g. bring your rage (either aggressively or passively) to the nativity play in flouting its rules.

It is a cycle you can get really trapped in, and does lead others to see you as "trouble".

There are good and bad people out there in the world, and it's impossible to judge from this thread whether the school headteacher is capable of being supportive or not. But I can promise from experience that it really helps to know clearly your own intentions. You will probably have anger and shame for the violent relationship for years, but work on that so they don't cloud your relationships with everyone involved in your DD's care.

somewheresomehow Wed 09-Jan-13 16:18:27

if you dont want social services involved in your life then sort out your lazy idle ways and get to school on time. whether they are in lessons or not it is your responsibility to see that your kid is in school on time

Graceparkhill Wed 09-Jan-13 17:40:26

Thanks for a very interesting post Auldlangsyne. It's very useful to get an insight into why someone with a history of DV may exhibit some challenging behaviours.

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 17:41:21

The free school meals keeps being brought up so I'll explain why I haven't taken it up.

We tried them. It's a 3 course meal. My DD is a naturally slow eater, she's laid back at everything in fact, along with two other children she was always last at finishing her meal or rather didn't finish it at all, so it ate into her luncbreak playground time. It was decided best all round for me to provide lunch that way I can ensure she eats properly and also has her fresh air and playtime quota.

Her packed lunches are not unaffordable, around a pound a day.

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 17:42:08


That's one of the most interesting views I have read on my situation, thank you.

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 17:44:07


The school in the new town was turned down because it's the third furthest away, has the worst Ofsted rating in the town, and is not the same school as my son is down for to start Reception this year.

We have a school at the end of the road, it will take probably 1 minute to walk there. Given my history of lateness, it's the most viable option.

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 17:45:57


She's in Year 1

There are no other children in tow, I haven't done the school run since we moved out of the village last Autumn. She has been driven to school by various other family members for the past few months because I cannot afford the bus fares.

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 17:46:49


She hasn't been taken to school by me since last Autumn, as I said many times previously, other family members have been driving her in.

meditrina Wed 09-Jan-13 18:00:12

I didn't realise Reception class offers had yet been made.

If you will be unable to get you DCs to two schools roughly a mile apart, how will you manage it over a 4 mile journey? For there's never a guarantee of a place via waiting list, and so a double drop-off could easily be your reality come September.

iclaudius Wed 09-Jan-13 18:03:29

Pylonic you sound articulate and intelligent to me but obviously have the odd issue. I think you need to work on your issues with authority. I think there are some posters on here who gave been unreasonably harsh .
Please take a step back and try and help yourself . People are not out to get you they genuinely want to grlp

iclaudius Wed 09-Jan-13 18:04:01


If others are driving her in, why is she late?

Surely it should not be a problem for you to get yourself out of bed, get your dd ready for school and go back to bed/enjoy a lazy breakfast?

Oblomov Wed 09-Jan-13 18:17:04

I am concerned about the Op. I can't see that this thread has got her anywhere and I am worried that when she does eventually get to the school that she wants ( if she does indeed get her dd there, before her father might possibly get custody?) then the same lateness will continue and she will agian, get into trouble.

I eventually learn that fighting is most often useless.
I fought the school that ds1 is still at, and gave up in the end.
I am worried that your basic attitude has not changed Op and that you have not taken onboard some of the very good advice on this thread.

Oblomov Wed 09-Jan-13 18:20:22

"She hasn't been taken to school by me since last Autumn"
so there are no excuses for lateness. And her recent lateness, since last Autumn, is not down to you? Then down to who?
I am sorry but I just don't get it.
And no siblings in tow. How old is your son that you took to the nativity?

I wish you would stop changing your story OP. In your first post you specifically stated that you had been using the bus OR family members. In another post you've said how much the bus cost per month- now you say you haven't been using the bus as you haven't done the run yourself since you moved hmm So what exactly is going on?

She was late again today wasn't she?

Given that you moved before the primary admissions deadline you could have out your son down for a place at the school your dd was offered. At least as your second choice, hoping a place came up at the end of the road for dd too.

I think this thread is a massive waste of your time tbh. Why post when you seem unable to either be honest with us or take on board what's said.

LIZS Wed 09-Jan-13 18:36:04

3/4 I think. op mentioned near beginning those giving lifts often get caught in traffic but presumably that means they should set off earlier or use a different route. If school don't regularly see the mum then maybe gm was nearest HT could speak to face-to-face, maybe thinking she might be a more major carer than she perhaps is or is covering due to an issue at home.

Well quite LIZS - if the OP isn't doing the school run at all then it would be perfectly understandable for the Head to speak to the person who was.

footflapper Wed 09-Jan-13 19:45:07

I see your bad attitude as a blatant disregard for the UK education system, op. In your own words you describe it as a system that doesn't work confused
Good job you're not doing home ed, nothing would get done! maybe give up the pot

Pancakeflipper Wed 09-Jan-13 20:11:08

In short OP, yes the school report your child to SS.

This is not about you - it's about your child.

Are you going to try to improve things for the poor kid or not? Cos' so far you've had an argument for everything but cannot see any positive action. It looks like you ignore the good suggestions and just go into battle with those who challenge you on here.

Continue as you are and SS will be at your door.

And do take up the Pupil Premium even if you send her with a packed lunch cos' it doesn't just cover free meals but other things for your child in school and they will benefit from it.

<gets off soap box>.

Pancake Many posters have pointed out that claiming FSM could help the school help her DD with the pupil premium money, but it she is not hearing it.

OP, I'll try again. Your DD can still eat packed lunch every day, even if you claim FSM.

dotcomlovenest Wed 09-Jan-13 20:46:08

Ha op I am pretty sure that social services will be not interested in your kids being late to school if attendence and all other things are good as in her behaviour and your general homelife. Not everyone copes well with the day to day humdrum things that parents have to do. I would however go into the school and make a complaint about them discussing your private life with people that have nothing to do with it. Does your mother have pr. I would like to say that they wont but they might. I was once reported to ss because my children had a pack lunch bought from a shop.

marquesas Wed 09-Jan-13 20:58:28

Why aren't you answering the point about claiming the free school meals regardless of whether your daughter eats them. If I was the HT of a small village school I'd be annoyed that I wasn't getting the pupil premium that's available - it's another example of your attitude that's difficult to empathise with.

If her mother has 'nothing' to do with her private life then why is she asking her to collect her young child from school hmm

PolterGoose Wed 09-Jan-13 21:27:03

dotcom, and anyone else who missed it, as has been mentioned up-thread, any issues relating to child protection (which OPs situation clearly does, insofar as concerns of this nature have been raised) do not have to conform to the usual confidentiality and Data Protection Act 'rules', hence school could, and can continue to, talk to others about the situation quite legitimately.

My feeling is that OP clearly needs some support and advocacy (which is not a bad thing, we all need help sometimes and OP has clearly been through a tough time and has to deal with the aftermath) and hopefully she will get this when an assessment is carried out.

I think, if we can look beyond her brusque, combative and seemingly defensive attitude, the OP is in desperate need of help. There is support out there for women who are and have been in abusive relationships, for example the Freedom Programme.

PolterGoose Wed 09-Jan-13 21:28:26
pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 22:41:25


If you read back thread, I have answered your question about the free schools meal.

Why do you think I should waste taxpayers money claiming for a free school meal that will not be eaten, when my child already has a packed lunch?

My answer is only a few posts ago, scroll back a little.

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 22:42:44


Yes, I will be making a formal complaint against the head for breach of confidentiality.

No, my mother doesn't have PR.

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 22:43:50

Foot flapper

Can you link us to where I have said the UK education system doesn't work please?

TunaPastaBake Wed 09-Jan-13 22:44:29

Many posters have pointed out that claiming FSM could help the school help her DD with the pupil premium money, but it she is not hearing it.

...and still not hearing it .

PolterGoose Wed 09-Jan-13 22:45:15

pylonic, as I've just said, this is not a breach of confidentiality as there is no confidentiality where there are child protection concerns. Please focus your efforts and time on solving the issues that have got you to this stage, not fighting losing battles.

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 22:45:49


With all due respect, you are confusing yourself. You haven't read the entire thread, otherwise you wouldn't keep asking me the same question over and over again.

To repeat myself again, she has been driven into school by various family members since last Autumn.

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 22:47:21


It's a good point, but the difference between you and I is that I don't intend to give up on the fight. Having a school at the end of our road is a blessing given our situation, so I am certainly not giving up on it.

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 22:48:02


I'm not hearing it, no, because nobody has explained yet what a pupil premium is!

teacherwith2kids Wed 09-Jan-13 22:48:15


Bizarrely, if you claim FSM, the actual meals are optional. You can register for FSM - which will be helpful to the school because they will get Pupil Premium, which they will use to help you in various ways e.g. with the cost of trips, extra support etc - and choose for your daughter not to have hot lunches. It isn't a waste of taxpayers' money, because the meal won't be made if you choose not to have the 'hot lunches' element of FSM, but what the taxpayer will find is a level of additional funding for the school to help you and your daughter. Which you need.

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 22:50:12


Absolutely, it's something that plagues my mind daily, the possibility of double drop offs either in this town or our
old village. That's why I'm sticking to my guns with the waiting list for the school nearest to us.

No, Reception offers are not made until this April.

ravenAK Wed 09-Jan-13 22:50:15

But that's not quite what it says in your OP re: the journey to school. 'Because I have had to rely on buses...'

If you are, in fact, relying on family members & they aren't reliable in terms of getting your daughter to school, the buck still stops with you. You need to find a solution that works or send your child to the nearer school.

& please do read up on Pupil Premium.

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 22:51:09


She has barely been late since last Autumn.
This thread refers to old issues.

Poltergoose, I don't agree. The school can discuss child protection concerns with certain agencies that are relevant, they can't go around telling other people that happen to be collecting the child that they are thinking of reporting them and why.

Protocol normally dictates that issues are raised in the first instance with the person with parental responsibility.

TunaPastaBake Wed 09-Jan-13 22:53:17

pupil premium

quite simple - google it -( it's called using your initiative ) hmm

teacherwith2kids Wed 09-Jan-13 22:53:22

Pylonic, definitely don't give up on the LONG TERM aim of getting your daughter into your closest school (is there 'upwards' sibling priority, ie if your younger child gets in for Reception, might your DD jump up the waiting list for the higher class?) but you also need to look at the short term.

Keeping your DD where she is isn't really working, is it - she's being driven in but not getting to school on time (why is that, btw? Do your relatives have other timetables, do they need to leave earlier, are you late getting your child ready for them to pick up? Obviously on day 1 they might have found that the traffic was bad - unless there were significant other reasons, then they should have adjusted their departure tie by day 2, surely?). So move her withing walking distance asap, hang on to the waiting list place for your local school, move her there when a plac arises.

I haven't seen you explai why you can't do that. Putting your daughetr short term into a less good school will do her less harm than she is currently coming to.

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 22:54:44

I see, thank you for explaining the pupil premium aspect of Free School Meals.

So basically, register for them (which we did a long time ago), refuse the food, and instead the school will get extra corn in the coffers for day trips and learning assistants?

We had to pay for the annual trip to the theatre whilst she was on FSM, so perhaps that policy doesn't apply to her school.

teacherwith2kids Wed 09-Jan-13 22:55:05

Pylonic, on the one hand you say
" Because I have had to rely on buses, we have been late again quite a few times, or other people that I have relied on to drive her in for me have been late traffic etc or there's been other logistical problems, so presumably the record isn't improving." (OP), now you say
"She has barely been late since last Autumn."

These cannot both be true. Which one is closer to the truth?

TunaPastaBake Wed 09-Jan-13 22:55:52

OP is still more interested in complaining about the Head rather than sorting and speaking with school about concerns about her DD.

Self centred or what ?

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 22:56:20

That's correct, I had to rely on buses in the past.

She has since been driven in by family, sometimes late, sometimes not.

teacherwith2kids Wed 09-Jan-13 22:56:37

Schools can choose how to use the pupil premium. We paid for school trips, because our FSM children also had very limited life experiences and so helping them to go on trips etc to widen these was critical to their progress. In other schools, where the issues are different, the choice of how to spend pupil premium may be different.

teacherwith2kids Wed 09-Jan-13 22:57:37

So she HAS been late fairly often since the Autumn, which was when you started using family?

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 22:57:46


No, she's had enough instability in her young life. Keeping her in her familiar school environment is best unti a place becomes available via In Year transfer. That way she will only change schools once, instead of twice.

PolterGoose Wed 09-Jan-13 22:58:04

Toughasoldboots, but, in this situation, where a child has been persistently late, plus all the other 'flags', then mum has not done school run for 3+ months with child being taken and collected by a ragbag of family and friends, it seems entirely appropriate to ask grandmother WTF is going on. I think the confidentiality issue is a red herring, OP needs to concentrate on sorting her life out, hopefully this will motivate her to make the changes needed.

ravenAK Wed 09-Jan-13 22:58:16

I think you need to re-read your own OP!

'My DD age 5.5 has had a poor lateness record since the beginning of Year 1'

'we were late almost every day for at least 6 months'

'3 months ago we had to move out of the village to a nearby town...we have been late again quite a few times... so presumably the record isn't improving'

From September of last academic year, the '6 months' of chronic lateness takes you until Spring Term. Then presumably things improved temporarily, & again since September she's been repeatedly late.

This will be seen as a cause for concern, especially as it really isn't necessary - you could move schools or prioritise getting her in by bus, but you refuse to see it as something that's in your power to change.

fuzzpig Wed 09-Jan-13 22:58:37

Having a school at the end of our road is a blessing given our situation

Well yes it is a blessing for anyone to have a school so near but what do you mean by 'our situation'

Bunnyjo Wed 09-Jan-13 22:59:00

OP - I have read through this and I urge you to seek help. Go see your GP and explain the situation, also accept that SS will possibly want to visit you and ensure your DD is OK and that you are too. The best thing you can do is comply with them, listen to what they advise and take all suggestions on board.

With the very best of respect, it sounds like you have been struggling to cope. You need to stop fighting and rebelling against everyone and accept that, from what you have posted and indeed what school have witnessed, that there are concerns for you and your DD. Consider sending your DD to the local school you turned down - it might be far from ideal, but her attending school regularly and on-time will benefit her more than being consistently late in a 'better' school. In the interim, before any school changes, open up communication with the HT - he hasn't seen you for some months and it is on both your interests to have a better relationship. As far as the FSM situation, could you and the school work together so that DD maybe doesn't get 3 separate courses, but that she gets a chance to eat the main meal and you can both work towards her eating a little quicker over the next few weeks?

I appreciate you will be feeling defensive, but that will not help you or your DD. Wishing you the very best, I hope everything works out OK.

teacherwith2kids Wed 09-Jan-13 22:59:06

Hmm. The first school place in DD's class came available for children from the waiting list / in year transfer late in Year 3. Are you going to allow the situation to continue for 2 more years??

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 22:59:25


A 'ragbag' is not generally a recognised collective term for a grandparent, Aunt and a teenage nephew! But I'm sure you don't ran it in quite the crass way you have created it smile

InNeedOfBrandy Wed 09-Jan-13 23:01:24

OP you are not allowed to slag off school or teachers or show you have the slightest attitude (even if it's not attitude). They will find red flags in the most innocent of things and as your first 100posts read yabba on at you an then act surprised when you defend yourself.

My dc are never late because I work but my friends dc are late every single day and have been the majority of school years (her ds is 9now) I do think it's ridiculous to report to ss for lateness it's not that bad. It's quite laughable actually that this is what they're threatening and posters are calling abuse and red flags, some dc are starving neglected locked in rooms and beaten, being late is not on the same level.

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 23:01:29


Yes, it's a very transient community in this town, and once her younger brother is offered Reception this April, sibling status applies.

But otherwise, quite likely yes, the situation will persist with her remaing on the waiting list.

teacherwith2kids Wed 09-Jan-13 23:05:18


On the one hand, everyone wants situations of abuse to be picked up and dealt with. on the other hand, schools are accused of being draconian when they flag up things that COULD be a sign of abuse / neglect or COULD be eholly innocent. It isn't a school's job to decide. That is why SS are referred to, and if necessary that is what they will investigate. If no-one reports the tiny 'hmm, that's a bit odd' moments / comments / things that arise, then we end up with another Climbie or Baby P case because the danger signs are not picked up.

The OP's case is almost certainly not one of neglect. However, some of the things that have been reported COULD indicate neglect as one of many poosibilities. It is every professional working with children's duty to record and pass on such information.

fuzzpig Wed 09-Jan-13 23:05:41

I do see why you don't want to disrupt her by moving schools twice but you have to accept it is the lesser of two evils. Children are adaptable.

Thing is, you may not get the place at your desired school at all - and then you will have been wasting your time and hers.

teacherwith2kids Wed 09-Jan-13 23:05:46

Excuse typing.

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 23:07:02


Ooh I know, in real life I'm a little mouse, but online our quiet words are amplified especially in the midst of hornets nests created by other posters smile

I don't say boo to a goose to the school or the head. I am of softly, softly approach. I'm well aware you have to play the system, education or otherwise. I just do it very calmly, politely and quietly.

teacherwith2kids Wed 09-Jan-13 23:08:25

So how did your conversation with the head - I presume that you rang or visited her today - go?

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 23:08:58

Fuzz pig, it's a case of when.

By Year 3 class sizes are unlimited so there's no reason to think a space will not be available.
A lot rests on the siblings status too when her brother is offered Reception.

TunaPastaBake Wed 09-Jan-13 23:09:13

Yes, it's a very transient community in this town, and once her younger brother is offered Reception this April, sibling status applies.

I would check that out of I were you - this may only apply to the child at the school being the older child - NOT when the child already at the school is the younger one.

teacherwith2kids Wed 09-Jan-13 23:10:31

How will you get 2 children to school on time in different schools for your DD's Year 2, if no place arises until Year 3? (Class sizes are not unlimited - it becomes easier to win an appeal BUT the physical size of rooms etc does still place a maximum size limit in almost all schools)

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 23:11:15


No, I've been very ill this week.
I am drafting an official complaint though.

teacherwith2kids Wed 09-Jan-13 23:12:14

And can you remind me why your DD is late nowadays? Those people giving lifts know the journey time and traffic conditions now, so presumably being late is a once in a 3 months or so type event, when there has been an accident or something?

TunaPastaBake Wed 09-Jan-13 23:12:30
teacherwith2kids Wed 09-Jan-13 23:13:24

How does it benefit your daughter if you comlain to the head but do not improve her getting to school?? She is the victim in all of this, and you should be prioritising her over all else.

teacherwith2kids Wed 09-Jan-13 23:13:59

(In other words, sort the problem now, then write to the head later. Doing it the other way round makes no sense.)

InNeedOfBrandy Wed 09-Jan-13 23:14:12

Yes but it seems with this case apart from persistent late issues (which have been explained if not truthfully wink) they have nitpicked other things to build up something to report. Her dc was appropriately dressed it was just not school logo nothing to even raise an eyebrow at really, and buying chocolate in the shop is a red flag how? Seems all very silly to me.

MN is funny about teachers and dogs, those two groups are never ever in the wrong and it's always the child's fault. OP my first ever post on MN was a teacher letting my ds escape, he walked past her out of classroom gate through 2 playgrounds and then was found outside the school gates, I had a few posters trying to pick fault and say my 4yr old (at the time) should have known better and it was my fault and I'm a awful parent blabla fucking BLA. grin it is always your dc fault on MN.

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 23:14:17


Oh yes. One is a 64 year old woman with heart problems who can barely walk from door to car, she isn't steady on her feet and her health needs vary daily, so she can't always scoot over within the millisecond to keep to schedule.

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 23:15:04


The double drop off issue, is a major one, as I have previously said. Some people manage it of course. I will just have to as well, if needs be.

teacherwith2kids Wed 09-Jan-13 23:15:24

So what are you doing to make the transport to school less dependent on that unreliable option?

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 23:15:47


Haha, yes! grin that's usually a sign that a thread has died a death and should probably be left to smoulder.

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 23:16:45

There's no such thing as a guarantee, Teacher, I'm afraid there are no options for making it 'less unreliable'.

TunaPastaBake Wed 09-Jan-13 23:17:31

Until the OP actually gets off her arse and speaks with the school then the full circumstances why they wish a SS referral - if that is indeed the case - will not be known by the OP.

But the OP is more concerned about making a complaint about the Head then working with them for the benefit of her DD.

teacherwith2kids Wed 09-Jan-13 23:17:50

Seems a shame, though, because in the middle of this there is a child who is not getting to school when she should, who must suffer quite a lot of embarressment and uncertainty and feel very conspicuous as a result, let alone the effect on her education - that's why I keep posting, I'm thinking of the child....

pylonic Wed 09-Jan-13 23:18:14


DD is no victim, as you or someone else said, kids are adaptable.
She's thriving educationally, emotionally and all the other 'ally's.