Is it acceptable for a teacher to say...

(84 Posts)
wishingonadream Thu 11-Oct-12 19:29:08

... I can try and remember, but there are 30 children in the class

When asked to remind your recpetion child to use the toilet when they have a uti?

LeeCoakley Thu 11-Oct-12 19:31:11

What's wrong with being honest?

Yes. She has said she will try. She will have many other things to think about too though. She might well remember - but if she forgets, it's not because she is being evil or unreasonable - just human.

littleducks Thu 11-Oct-12 19:33:03

I think so it's honest

missymoomoomee Thu 11-Oct-12 19:35:36

I would be fine with that tbh. I would be more inclined to remind my child rather than the teacher at that age.

IwishIwasmoreorganised Thu 11-Oct-12 19:36:15

Yes of course it is.

Would you prefer that they'd said, "yes of course, that's no problem whatsoever" but not be able to actually do it?

Either your child is unwell and should be at home, or well enough to cope with a normal day at school.

ComeIntoTheGardenMaud Thu 11-Oct-12 19:36:31

Yes, it's frank and honest. It has to be up to your child to go to the loo when they need to. A reminder from the teacher can only be a back-up for that.

ShatnersBassoon Thu 11-Oct-12 19:37:01

Yes, I think that's perfectly reasonable.

Hulababy Thu 11-Oct-12 19:37:52

I think it is acceptable. That way at least you are aware in advance that they will try to remember, but might also get sidetracked and forgot - better to be honest than end up having the wrath of a parent if an accident happens.

Not even something you can write on the whiteboard by the desk as a reminder due to the nature of the reminder.

BettySuarez Thu 11-Oct-12 19:39:07

Perfectly reasonable given that half a dozen other parents have probably left similar messages that day too

cakebar Thu 11-Oct-12 19:43:09

I always talk to the TA about things like that, there's never a queue for her and far more likely to be carried out IME.

AmberLeaf Thu 11-Oct-12 19:43:46

Hmm yes it is honest but I think it displays that the issue isnt taken particularly seriously.

Would she 'try to remember' if a child was severely allergic to nuts and needed a epi pen if exposed? or would she have measures in place to make sure it was remebered?

cakebar Thu 11-Oct-12 19:43:59

Should add that I love our reception TA, she was so kind to DS when he had endless nose bleeds and occasional wet pants!

AmberLeaf Thu 11-Oct-12 19:44:17

Remembered*

hazeyjane Thu 11-Oct-12 19:46:14

I don't think it's acceptable, surely it's the same as asking the teacher to help a child us an inhaler before pe.

WereTricksPotter Thu 11-Oct-12 19:47:07

Yy, AmberLeaf. Same with needing an asthma inhaler.

I think the child's initials and a time could be marked on the whiteboard.

ilikesweetpeas Thu 11-Oct-12 19:57:08

I sympathise! I asked reception TA to encourage DD to drink more water for the same reason but her water bottle still comes home full everyday. Added to which she wont drink in school because she doesn't like the toilets...

WofflingOn Thu 11-Oct-12 20:01:29

I use a flower-shaped post-it on the corner of my IWB, with the name on it.
Nothing else, but it is enough of a memory-jogger. Because with 30+ children it is hard to remember small details that change on a daily basis.
Unlike a child with an allergy or an epipen or a significant need, which is permanent and a daily issue. confused

WofflingOn Thu 11-Oct-12 20:02:22

Is this child going to have a UTI for the rest of the year?
Do you not see the difference?

PandaNot Thu 11-Oct-12 20:07:11

Yes it is acceptable and honest. She has to get on with the job of teaching 30 children not babysitting them. If the child has a uti then they shouldn't be at school. If the uti has cleared and she is simply reminding the child to go to the toilet more often so it doesn't recur then she will do her best.

ILoveSparklers Thu 11-Oct-12 20:09:53

I think it's a little harsh, surely it's as important as the child receiving medicine considering its a uti issue?

AmberLeaf Thu 11-Oct-12 20:15:04

The child may well end up having recurrent UTIs if the prescribed treatment isn't adhered to yes!

I get your point, but I stand by my earlier post.

clam Thu 11-Oct-12 20:23:47

I expect she was just reserving her rights, in that if she forgot, and there was an accident, you wouldn't hold her responsible.

WofflingOn Thu 11-Oct-12 20:26:27

So, will she have to supervise the child to make sure that they drink enough?
What if they refuse to drink? Perhaps the child would be better off at home where they can be closely monitored and encouraged 1:1.
Is the child even 5 yet?

Noqontrol Thu 11-Oct-12 20:33:35

I would expect her or the TA to remember tbh.

Feenie Thu 11-Oct-12 20:34:53

That assumes that every class has a TA, which isn't necessarily the case. I don't, and I have 31 children.

WofflingOn Thu 11-Oct-12 20:38:42

I suppose it is just that the teacher is saying that she'll try her best to remember, and that doesn't appear to be good enough. But if that's the case, the child should be at home.

ilikesweetpeas Thu 11-Oct-12 20:41:26

Wiggling - surely it's reasonable to expect a school to remind small children to drink? Otherwise I will have to home ed because my child does not drink especially given that she doesn't want to use the toilet in school! Many children in reception class are only 4 and do need a level of care not necessary for older children?

ilikesweetpeas Thu 11-Oct-12 20:42:07

Wiggling - surely it's reasonable to expect a school to remind small children to drink? Otherwise I will have to home ed because my child does not drink especially given that she doesn't want to use the toilet in school! Many children in reception class are only 4 and do need a level of care not necessary for older children?

kid Thu 11-Oct-12 20:42:14

All reception classes have a TA don't they?
I think its a fair enough comment as others have said. The teacher will have a lot of things to remember throughout the day and I'm sure she wouldn't deliberately forget.

WofflingOn Thu 11-Oct-12 20:42:31

I mean, I'd remember.
But then I sometimes forget to remind my children to tick their success criteria, or do 5 minutes Brain Gym or whatever the latest educational gimmick is in class, because I'm keeping an eye out for HermionewiththeUTI.
Too many balls in the air, and everyone ready to shoot the juggler if you fumble.

ilikesweetpeas Thu 11-Oct-12 20:42:54

Sorry for double post, on phone!

Noqontrol Thu 11-Oct-12 20:43:05

Although surely they should be making sure all the kids go to the toilet at certain intervals throughout the day. As well as having access to drinks.

WofflingOn Thu 11-Oct-12 20:43:54

You can remind them, but they often choose not to drink, wash their hands or use a tissue instead of their sleeves. We do our best and that is as good as it usually gets.

Feenie Thu 11-Oct-12 20:44:40

Reread OP - hadn't seen in was Reception blush. Yes, they would probably have a TA.

ilikesweetpeas Thu 11-Oct-12 20:46:46

Woffling - I do sympathise that there are too many educational gimmicks! I'm not worried that my child hasn't changed her book all week, or that she learnt her words last week and they haven't been updated but her drinking nothing is stressing me as she will end up ill...

WofflingOn Thu 11-Oct-12 20:47:35

Would she drink if reminded?

kid Thu 11-Oct-12 20:48:07

I work in a school and the whole of the reception class is taken to the toilet just before lunch. If they want to use the toilet at any other time, they go with a buddy.

If a child was doing a little dance whilst crossing their legs or showing some sign that they may need to use the toilet, an adult would ask if they needed to go to the toilet, but other than that, its highly unlikely for reception children to be reminded to go to the toilet.

Scarynuff Thu 11-Oct-12 20:48:41

We have regular drink and toilet breaks, usually at set times throughout the day and children can, of course, go more frequently if required.

But accidents still happen. I asked a boy at breaktime last week if he needed the toilet and he said no. Two minutes later he wet himself.

So I think the teacher is just being honest. We can try but if the child doesn't co-operate it becomes much more difficult.

ilikesweetpeas Thu 11-Oct-12 20:52:32

Wiggling - yes she would drink if reminded as she loves her teacher and is keen to please. I have asked once that she be reminded and don't know how to tackle this? There is always a queue of mums wanting to see the teacher and I figure she is busy enough! Only 15 in class but TA support just am. Would a polite note be better than a chat?

mumnosbest Thu 11-Oct-12 20:55:13

I wouldn't say that. Shows a total lack oof care. I would/have said something like 'i'll try and we do remind them all at snack/break etc". Ok they might be 1/30 but they're all important as are their needs.

Noqontrol Thu 11-Oct-12 20:55:33

Thats different though scarynuff. At least in your class you have regular toilet and drink breaks. If a child refuses theres not much you can do. But I wouldn't be impressed if there wasn't regular toilet breaks, and the teacher said she might forget in the case of a child particularly needing to be reminded.

ilikesweetpeas Thu 11-Oct-12 20:56:12

That message was for woffling not wiggling! Think I need some sleep...

Noqontrol Thu 11-Oct-12 20:59:12

Agree mumnosbest. I think it shows a lack of care too.

Floggingmolly Thu 11-Oct-12 21:01:03

In Reception they're usually reminded to use the loo before all playtimes / lunch. If this isn't enough, then I have to agree with other posters, she needs to be at home until she's better.
If it was a severe infection she'd be too ill for school anyway.

Hulababy Thu 11-Oct-12 21:01:07

I think most infant classes would remind children at break and lunch - I know we do and we are Y2 - but that is mainly as we want to encourage them to use the toilet at these times to minimise trips out of the classroom. I assume the request is for over and above this?

BigWitchLegsInWailyTights Thu 11-Oct-12 21:01:09

I wouldn't send a small child in with a UTI to be honest.

Noqontrol Thu 11-Oct-12 21:03:26

Thats a tiny class ilikesweetpeas. Not sure why the teacher can't manage to prompt the children to drink their water in such a small group. I'd go and speak to her about it and keep going back until the problem is resolved.

BigWitchLegsInWailyTights Thu 11-Oct-12 21:04:46

I want to know why a child that age is IN school with a UTI...they are very uncomfortable!

QuickLookBusy Thu 11-Oct-12 21:05:02

If the child needed to take an inhaler or other medication I'm sure the teacher wouldn't have said that.

I would have gone and had a word with the TA if a teacher had said that to me. Or offered to take the child home if both of them felt they couldn't remember.

Everlong Thu 11-Oct-12 21:05:04

I don't think it's fair on either the teacher to have remember or on the child being sent in with a uti.

LynetteScavo England Thu 11-Oct-12 21:08:07

The first time a teacher said to me "He is one of 30 children" I went home cried, and and phoned DH at work in tears.

Because the nursery, reception and year one staff had made me feel like my DC was the most important child to them. (Of course I knew he wasn't). No one want's to be told their child is one of 30, or is average.

But then teachers are employed to teach, not to provide pleasent customer service, which is why some of them will say things like this.

I would expect a reception child to be sent to the toilet at breaks and lunch anyway, and have the opportunity to go in between.

bsmirched Thu 11-Oct-12 21:11:21

This is slightly off topic and what I'm about to say obviously doesn't apply to a child with a UTI problem but the whole thing of having water bottles on tables has only happened in the last few years - before then you might have had a quick slurp at the icky communal water fountain at playtime! The silly nonsense about the little darlings needing to keep their brains hydrated or whatever it was has long been shown to be science of a similar ilk to the utterly daft Brain Gym. Honestly, I really wonder how children educated pre 2000 didn't just disappear in a haze of desiccated dust.
And as for likening the OP's situation to that of a child with a serious nut allergy where there would be care plans all over school and every staff member trained up to use the Epipen - that is simply ludicrous.

Good post, Bsmirched!

BigWitchLegsInWailyTights Thu 11-Oct-12 21:14:31

But WHY is the child in school with a UTI???????????

WereTricksPotter Thu 11-Oct-12 21:23:51

It comes down to do you send your child in with a manageable condition that needn't impinge on their education or do I keep them at home until absolutely, positively Well?

AmberLeaf Thu 11-Oct-12 21:58:55

A UTI is managable though BigWitch.

One of my children used to suffer them a bit when younger and if id kept him at home every time 1 he would have missed out on loads when he really wasnt that ill and 2 id have had the EWO on my back!

ILoveSparklers Thu 11-Oct-12 22:18:03

Uti is manageable and some kids them do often that missing school isn't feasible.

ILoveSparklers Thu 11-Oct-12 22:19:33

The more I think about it, sounds like an uncaring teacher to me.

WereTricksPotter Thu 11-Oct-12 22:20:58

Busy teacher, ILove.

hazeyjane Thu 11-Oct-12 22:34:39

Dd2 needs an inhaler on certain days - if weather is very cold, before playtimes, and pe. If she feels wheezy she knows to go and tell her teacher, who will help her take her inhaler. But on some days I will say to the teacher at the beginning of the day, 'can you make sure dd2 gets her inhaler before she goes out to play'. It always happens, and I would be gutted if she said, 'well i'll try to remember, but i do have 30 other children to look out for' - surely this is the same sort of situation?

mumnosbest Thu 11-Oct-12 23:06:41

teachers are employed to teach not nowadays. Heard of pastoral care?

If i couldn't have a drink untill lunchtime i'd be parched. I think water bottles are a fab idea. Ok we all survived school without them but so what! My nan grew up without an indoor loo and used newspaper instead of andrex but she wouldn't wish that on our dcs. Talking of loo roll, anyone remember the slippy, grease proof school toilet paper? grin

bsmirched Thu 11-Oct-12 23:47:19

Water bottles are a bloody nightmare - one more distraction amongst the flashing shoes and other assorted crap. I'm not talking about the dark ages when I refer to the time before water bottles, just 8 or 10 yrs ago. Are we seriously saying they can't manage an hour or so without slurping? My 2 yr old DS is at nursery and they have drinks first thing then mid morning then at lunch. Can you imagine what a nightmare it would be to let a roomful of toddlers have a drink with them constantly? Why do they suddenly need constant access to a drink once they get to school?

UsingAPsuedonym Thu 11-Oct-12 23:57:01

Our pre school has a jug and cups at the side so they can help themselves (or ask an adult) if thirsty. I. Like that!

Noqontrol Fri 12-Oct-12 00:11:01

I don't think anyone said a child can't manage for an hour or so without a drink. But they need to be offered drinks on a regular basis throughout the day. The fact that children only got sips from the water fountain in the past  is completely irrelevant. 
Children used to be caned at my school for minor misdemeanours. Would you agree that because it was in fashion once it is a practice that should be continued for ever more?   
Dehydration does cause health problems, at the very least it causes headaches and tiredness. Not conducive to good learning, however inconvenient the provision of water, and the subsequent increased use of the toilet might be to some teachers.  

TheEnthusiasticTroll Fri 12-Oct-12 00:12:21

i dont think it is acceptable.
As someone who spent a childhood with constant utis and missed a lot of school as a result when a uti is under controle with a good reigime then they should be at school, a uti can linger for a very long time, weeks or months even when treated. generaly whilst awaiting further investigation. My teachers 20 + years ago managed to work with myself and my mum to support my needs and that was with in a time of limited pasterol care and no TAs.

the teacher should remember, a simple i will try my very best is sufficient if they will try, but added with well there are 30 other children in the class comes across as very resentfull and basically an excusse to cop out. i wouldnt be happy with it. UTIs can be very dangerous and it is also not managable to keep a child off school when a recurring or prolonged UTI has taken hold.

TheEnthusiasticTroll Fri 12-Oct-12 00:15:52

bsmirched, rehydration, consentation and healthy cell maintenace, that is why water is important.

MadameCupcake Fri 12-Oct-12 12:49:33

As a sufferer from UTIs and kidney problems my whole life my parents needed to have the teachers on side to ensure that I did not make these problems worse but I was expected to ask to go to the toilet and the teachers (from infant to secondary) were told by HT that if I asked to go I was not to be questioned and should be allowed to go at any time.

I don't really think it is the teachers responsibility to be prompting individual children but I would be happy if she had said she would try - good teachers would genuinely do their best I believe. The teachers at DSs infant school have set times where they encourage all children to have a wee and they also have their bottles of water on the table at all times. This should be happening at all schools as far as I am concerned.

I know most schools won't guarantee to give DCs anti-biotics either during the day so I think the answer would be to keep them off if you are worried.

Angelico Fri 12-Oct-12 12:57:52

She was being honest. Unless you have been a teacher you have no idea how many demands there are made on you in any one lesson / day. Thirty+ kids, of whom five or 6 may have additional needs / requests made plus more info coming in by phone / email during the day plus the small matter of actually trying to bloody teach the kids between all the interruptions and extras...

Angelico Fri 12-Oct-12 12:59:39

That's not meant to sound unsympathetic OP as you haven't frothed at the mouth from what I've read - again, just being honest. Having just had my own PFB I can understand your frustration more now but she is in a room full of people's precious kids and she will be genuinely doing her best to keep EVERYONE happy.

TooMuchRain Fri 12-Oct-12 13:00:47

The teacher is not U, she is honest. An education system that forces children into such large classes is totally unreasonable though.

defineme Fri 12-Oct-12 13:05:37

Our teacher writes medication times and so on on board-if she could think of a discrete way of doing that it would be helpful or is every break enough?

As another poster says it's an unreasonable system with 30 in a class-I know my kids' teachers struggle with this kind of thing. Whereas my friend's kids in a private reception class have a ratio of 2 adults to 6 children!

Jenny70 Fri 12-Oct-12 15:01:54

I think you are being unreasonable. You can ask her to remind your DD, but honestly it really isn't her job to monitor fluids and toilet stops.

To my mind if your DD needs to be reminded/monitored she should be at home. UTI's can lead to kidney infections etc. It should clear up in 1-2 days, so why not let her rest at home, drink fluids and go to the toilet regularly?

Imagine if 30 parents came in with
-Johnny needs to be reminded to use the toilet hourly
-Sammy needs medication at lunchtime
-Violet has a sore tummy, so if she looks peaky please call me
-Alice didn't feel like eating breakfast, so I've added a snack in case she's peckish.
etc, etc.

radicalsubstitution Fri 12-Oct-12 16:39:49

bsmirched don't worry about it too much. In 10 years' time there will probably be 'irrefutible' (oh where's the spell check when I need it?) scientific evidence that constant sucking on sports bottles has caused a generation of children to have malformed jaws - explaining why they have to say 'wiv' instead of 'with' all the time. Water bottes will therefore be banned.

cansu Fri 12-Oct-12 17:17:51

I think she was just being honest. I get loads of requests every day to deal with as well as accidents to dal with, children crying because someone has just been mean to them, someone who has a sudden nose bleed and needs looking after as well as teaching and clearing up etc etc. I am sure she will try but she is trying to tell you honestly that if she forgets it won't be because she doesn't care but because she is busy caring for all the other children.

MerylStrop Fri 12-Oct-12 17:21:10

In reception I think they get reminded fairly frequently anyhow

It's a professional and realistic response

(so long as she didn't roll her eyes when she did it)

yousankmybattleship Fri 12-Oct-12 17:27:54

Yes, I think that is a prefectly reasonable thing to say. Would have been better to speak to the TA but even she has 29 other children to consider so with the best will in the world one child's toileting needs could get overlooked. If it is really so medically important for a child to go to the toilet at certain times or certain intervals then that child should be at home.

neverputasockinatoaster Fri 12-Oct-12 17:41:49

I would have said -'I'll certainly do my best' with a big smile and then put a note on my planning. I might have written the child's name on the board as a visual reminder but not the reason. I might even have gotten the child involved - as in 'I'll do my best, perhaps X and I could try to remember together?'
I don't think I'd have added the bit about the 30 children...

mrz Fri 12-Oct-12 17:52:13

I confess as a parent I have, on occasion, forgotten to give my own children their antibiotics, steroids, inhalers, reminders etc on time and that's without all the distractions of the classroom.

desertgirl Fri 12-Oct-12 17:57:34

Jenny70, as another one who had UTIs as a child (fortunately a little older than OP's DD), they don't all clear up in 1-2 days.

WofflingOn Fri 12-Oct-12 18:02:46

So, what happened in reality OP?
Did the teacher remember?

I've NEVER forgotten medication for my children, mrz. shock

I have however, on occasion, forgotten to feed them and then remembered when they wanted a second breakfast.

mrz Fri 12-Oct-12 18:07:39

I did say on time Wofflington! If they were meant to be taken every four hours it has on occasion been 5 or slightly more hours ... never totally forgotten.

I have always remembered to feed them but at times I've realised that I've not eaten all day or visited the loo for that matter as I'm going to bed.

clam Fri 12-Oct-12 18:07:58

^"Imagine if 30 parents came in with
-Johnny needs to be reminded to use the toilet hourly
-Sammy needs medication at lunchtime
-Violet has a sore tummy, so if she looks peaky please call me
-Alice didn't feel like eating breakfast, so I've added a snack in case she's peckish."^

Er.... you mean, like happens every day? grin Along with "what have you done with my child's jumper?"

WofflingOn Fri 12-Oct-12 18:33:39

So between the two of us, we'd make a reasonable attempt at parenting. smile

'-Johnny needs to be reminded to use the toilet hourly
-Sammy needs medication at lunchtime
-Violet has a sore tummy, so if she looks peaky please call me
-Alice didn't feel like eating breakfast, so I've added a snack in case she's peckish." '

'I forgot her lunch, so I'll pop in later with it'
'Flute lesson at 1.15'
That's the third new jumper he's lost this term, I want you to check every child and their bags until it's found'

Yes, these things happen every day, and do you score any OFSTED brownie points for them?
Nope.

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