Questions to ask Govenors in a forum re special measures.

[vertigo]

My DS is currently in the nursery arm of a school that has been put in special measures.He has a reception place there - the only school place he was offered. (we chose it prior to being aware of the schools, or our, problems)

My P has recently left and being a new single mother I am having difficulty filtering out the emotional panic for me and ds with our new home life and the practical questions that apply to starting at a school placed in SM.

The Govenors are offering a forum to talk through what special measures mean for the school/your child.

What would be pertinent questions at this juncture?

Any help/steer appreciated.

[suitejudyblue]

It depends on how much info you've been given beforehand. If this is the first chance you get to find out anything I would start with the basics of exactly what, day to day, being in special measures means to the children and the way the school runs.
I would concentrate on how it will affect your child to start with - will there be any extra support for reception children ?
Do you know why the school is in special measures, I don't know much about this but it might be for something that, in the short termdoesn't affect your DS and so you may be able to put it to one side for now while you deal with everything else you have going on.
I would definitely go to the meeting, even if you don't ask anything you will get info from listening to what others have to say.

[vertigo]

Thanks suitej,

The school has had a bumpy history over the last 2 years: A previous head who hadn't been in the post so long was suspended, an interim head for 18mo, and the new head who was 2 days in to post when Ofstedded.

The Foundation stage seems to have been picked out specifically. There will be staffing consultations too.

It's a school where I think good grades have masked the amount of personal tutelage to springboard to private secondary that isn't down to the teaching. Ofsted presumably is not placed to comment on that but the school is using the good grades as it's main reassurance and I am not sure it is valid.

It is a polarised community and I do worry - although I am not sure this is valid for a govenors forum - that this report will mean those able to choose/go elsewhere will do so and the intake will be unbalanced setting off a different set of issues. (Which I feel sensitive to due to our new family situation).

[nymphadora]

It does mean that the school will be inspected v regularly by OFSTED & LEA inspectors. Head will be v tightly overseen. Extra funding will be put in to the school too. So in some circumstances the school is better off than if they had been deemed adequate

[vertigo]

Hi nymph and thanks. Yes every 3 months I am led to believe. I can see there may well be benefits but I am also slightly wary (not you 2 posters - in RL) of people making out it is the best thing since sliced bread. I can see it is better than if it had been one off the bottom which is your take too.

Apparently some of the Gs have experience of schools in SM.

suitj the forums so far have been woefully, imo, under attended. In 2s and 3s. So far it would seem like it is just my name down for the session that suits my time. I dread the one on one. And want to go armed with questions. (My brain function is half what it has been due to being hijacked to deal with separation and exposing an affair but that is a different story - just wanted to explain doubting my own judgment)

[nymphadora]

It's good that they have good governors too. Tbh a new head may have made the difference if they had been longer in post.

Do you like the school? Does it feel 'comfy' ? I would go on gut feeling rather than results any day.

Dd1s last school was outstanding but so unfriendly and when she was picked up they blamed her.

[suitejudyblue]

I'd say you are right to be concerned that there doesn't seem to be much parental will to get involved if the previous meetings haven't been well attended.
I would also share your concerns about those who are able to moving their children but if this is your only available option for a school I still don't think you need to be too downhearted.
You are obviously very concerned for your son and seem very articulate yourself so if you can give him support in his reception year with the basics of reading ang writing you can keep your options open for the future as you may find it easier to find a different school next year.
I'd suggest you keep as involved as you can and continue with an open mind, I don't know how true it is that special measures is a good thing but I do know of a school local to me (secondary) that was placed in SM last year and has recently had a very good reinspection so it does happen.

[vertigo]

Thanks so suitej. I have been worried, given that I now have to find a primary wage earning job, with how much time I can find for being with dcs as well as loving and practical feeding, washing etc them. Of course I will make the time. It makes the other side of life (the sm bit) amplified.

We are inner London based so to stay in London AND go to a deemed-good school seems unlikely (with chicken and egg waiting lists) in the first few years iykwim.

I do feel heartened by your posts though and can formulate some thoughts/qs for tomorrow.

[ASmallBunchOfFlowers]

We live near a school which not so long ago was in SM. It got a very vigorous new head teacher and all the usual extra money/inputs/inspections. It is now outstanding and has become the school that parents try to wangle their child into. And we're in inner London too.

So don't despair. Obviously it is not great that the school hit the rock bottom of SM but this could be the start of a dramatic turn-around.

For the forum, focus on the parts of the Ofsted report which most concern you. You could ask what the school's improvement plan says about these issues, how the GB are going to ensure that the school is on track to achieve the necessary improvements, etc. Why not ask what they will be doing to ensure that applications don't drop off? You could also ask (if this is an issue for you) whether they have plans to become an extended school offering wrap-around child care, etc.

[admission]

I would focus on the positive rather than the negative past. The school has a new headteacher who can hardly be blamed for a bad OFSTED 2 days after starting. They will be very keen to put their mark on the school and drag it kicking and screaming out of SM. This might actually be the best possible time to have a child in the school.

If the Foundation stage was singled out then that will obviously get more attention. It could well be that the previous management had not made the changes to the Foundation curriculum that have come in over the last few years. I would ask specifically about what was wrong at the meeting.

Ask what the LA will be doing to help the process as they may well be putting in extra resources and funding.

Don't expect miracles to happen overnight but you may well see changes in staffing as this frequently happens with a new head and even more so after a bad OFSTED.

[suitejudyblue]

Some more good advice being posted, I don't know about London schools other than what I read on here but I recognise that changing isn't as easy as it is in other parts of the country.

[vertigo]

thanks smallbunch and admission. You are both realistically positive. That helps. All posts in reply have been so in fact.

(as opposed to RL where some are being so overwhelmingly upbeat about it that one wonders why parents don't single out SM schools if it is that fantastic an opp! [hmmm])

One reserve re new head is that the baby doesn't get thrown out with the bath water.
The atmosphere that first attracted us to it and I have to say the staff too could well change in pursuit of better standards.

My ds is happy in the nursery element if it does seem to have become somewhat feral in so far as all outdoor play in a big gang - although he probably doesn't tell me all - and moral in the staff is palpably low.

[DanFmDorking]

I expect you are feeling annoyed/upset/angry about being put into 'special measures' but the following is true:-

1. The worst is over, the school is now getting better,
   
2. The County Education Dept know the problems and will be pouring extra money/time/resources into the school to take it out of special measures
   
3. the Staff and Governors know the probs and are sorting them out now.
   
   Points to make/ask at the Governors Forum
   a) Try not to dwell on the Past and complain about what has happened and ask why it happened, that?s all finished with
   b) Try to ask about the future
   c) Since the school was placed in special measures what immediate steps have the Governors taken to improve the situation?
   d) What are the next few steps that will happen?
   -breathe-
   e) Will the school be fully staffed for Sept?
   f) Ask the Chair of Govs, What can we do as Parents to support the school through this process?
   g) Ask the Head, What can we do as Parents to support the school through this process?
   h) This is a bit of a negative point but depending on how confident you feel and how the Forum is conducted you could explain that the Governing body has seriously let the children down, you clearly hold them responsible and ask how many of them are going to resign.
   -and breathe again-
   i) What Governor vacancies are there? (put your name down!)
   j) Read the Ofsted report, pick out the reasons for the ?special measures? and ask specific what has changed since.
   k) Read the Ofsted report, pick out the Good Points and thank the school for the Good Points.
   l) Are there likely to be any changes in the Senior Teaching Team soon?
   

• If so - what steps are being taken to recruit experienced teachers?

m) Have all the Sept. intake places been taken?

• If not, why not? What steps are being taken? This could give budgets problems to the school for the next and subsequent years.

n) Will the Governors publish the ?Action Plan?? (they should do)
o) Finally, make a big effort to be supportive (It's all too easy to criticise and whine).
p) What does the school need next (Computers, equipment), how can we help?
q) My child said 'insert something nice' he is very happy here - thanks for all that you do

The school will be getting regular inspections (roughly 2 or 3 per year) from Ofsted to check progress

Remember:- Because of the extra money, time and effort, when the school comes out of ?special measures? it will arguably be the best school for miles around.

(I like what ASmallBunchOfFlowers said and agree.)

Try not to be disheartened - keep smiling

[jasmeeen]

Can I ask if the school name begins with a C?

[NickOfTime]

h is a bit dubious, dan... i'd prefer to see it worded slightly less confrontationally - maybe 'i am concerned that the governing body seem to have missed [the reason the school has been put in special measures]. can you shed some light on how this happened and give some reassurances that our children will not be let down in this manner by the governing body again?

(depending on the reason for sm you could ask particular questions wrt governor's responsibilities - ie tracking measures/ frequency of governor visits whilst the school is in session/ how many of the governing body have completed the 'safeguarding children' training / level of general training of the governing body etc)

you could follow this up by asking if any of the governing body (esp CoG) intend to resign as a result of the failings, but tbh it would have more impact if you let them know that you know what their job is, you are on their cases, and you will be watching very closely...

[DanFmDorking]

Yep - good points ? better put ? no wonder I keep getting thrown out!

[NickOfTime]

[ASmallBunchOfFlowers]

Dan's much more detailed list of Qs is great, although I agree with Nick that demanding the GB's mass resignation may be overly confrontational.

One issue with failing schools is that head teachers may not be as frank as they should be with the GB about what's going wrong. I know of a school where the HT doctored the SATs results, for example. As the day to day management of the school is the HT's responsibility - and as governors' visits are just that, visits not inspections - it can take a while for the GB to get fully in the picture. That's not to excuse poor performance by the GB, which ought to be acting as a critical friend to the school, but I would suggest that you proceed with caution before you (metaphorically) demand the chair of governors' head on a plate.

Getting involved as a governor or through the PFA is also a great idea.

[vertigo]

DanFmDorking and nickoftime thanks v much for steer. A lot of useful focus there and will be using it. Much appreciated.

jasmeeen don't be offended but I don't think specifying where it is is the right thing to do

thanks all for rallying so very quickly and spending efforts to comprehensively answer.

[vertigo]

smallbunch crossed posts.. Thanks for adding. The Govenors aren't seen as part of the problem by Ofsted - or the head. A lot are new I believe.

I must read further on what a govenor's role is relative to HT etc. Thanks for drawing it to my attention. My last real focus on school was my own schooling, 30 ahem years ago.

[JustineMumsnet]

Hi Vertigo,
Am pretty sure I know the school - I have a child there in Year 2 and another starting in reception in Sept. Plus my dh is a Governor. All I can say is don't panic, I think the new head is going to be great and special measures probably exactly what we needed to give him a mandate to really tackle the things that need tackling and afaik there is no mass exodus afoot.

[vertigo]

thanks MNT. Like I said it is difficult right now to extrapolate what is solely school worries versus new personal circumstance and the anxiety I have with that in relation to school but these posts have given me a) focus and b) reassurance.

Grateful for both

[jasmeeen]

I think I do know the school and I would not be worried. I would say that the worst is over.