School closes due to training days

[bartell70]

Am I the only one whose child was forced to take a extra days holiday due to teacher training?

I looked at last years school holidays and found that our primary was closed for 62 days of holidays and then 6 teacher training days.
(not including snow days)

Now like most parents I want the best for my children and that's 6 days of lost schooling.
I understand that teachers use some of the holidays to plan term lessons and for marking etc..

BUT.. As teachers are paid the whole year regardless of holidays, why cant these training days be done during half terms? Are 62 days holiday not enough?

Before you start saying how hard done you are teachers, I have spoken to teachers about this and around 10-14 days of those 62 days are spent planning for lessons. (Primary teachers only)

So I have emailed the Education Dept for a answer. But wondered if anyone on here could enlighten me.

Or am I just ranting about my daughter losing 6 days schooling for no reason?

[toccatanfudge]

she hasn't lost any schooling for teacher training days, they're not included in the number of days that she should be educated for........

although I'm someone else will be along VERY shortly to explain it better than me.

[TheBoyWithaSORNedMX5]

Statutory school days

Non-contact time and how it is managed varies between schools (none of DS's schools INSET days are used for lesson prep as this time has been worked into the weekly timetable).

[seeker]

Am I the only person who thinks "INSET day - Yippee - a day off school when things children like to do won't be heaving!"

[Shaz10]

They used to be our holidays too!

[nymphadora]

TEACHERS ARE NOT PAID FOR HOLIDAYS THEY ARE PAID FOR 39 WEEKS WORK (as are most other school staff) Pay is then split into 12 equal blocks. INSET days were then added on top (should be 5 a year)but included in the same salary.

Lots of schools also do INSETS as twilight sessions after school.

[daisy243]

I agree Bartell70.
Bee

[bartell70]

OK reading a few bits like the 190 days of schooling been reduced to 189 this year. But my darling daughter school has only 186 school days this year. Not taking away the lost snow days.

I'm not having ago at teacher, they a do a great job with the resources they are given. But where is the harm in bringing in a teacher and paying them to do training days during half term?

Is there not a lot of ranting about children leaving school without the basic's? So tell me that using those extra days for teaching would not be a good thing.

[seeker]

I think your school is not fulfilling its statutory duty if it only opens 186 days a year. What does the Head say about it?

[titchy]

The harm with bringing in trainers during half term is that teachers would then have to attend during half term, so they'd have to be be paid for an extra 5 days. Which would amount to an extra 2.5% extra salary for LEAs to find.

[nymphadora]

Its not just paying one teacher one day though. In my dh school it would be 12 teacher (£150 day -supply rates) 40 Tas (£70 a day-supply rate) plus any admin staff and the head/deputy themselves (all at supply rate).And budgets have been cut hugely this year.

If your dds school hasn't had its full allowance of 'working' days this term take it up with the school or the LA but make sure you know the full facts about teachers and pay and don't believe the '13 weeks off so they have plenty of time 'holiday argument

[TheBoyWithaSORNedMX5]

Oh yes seeker - having a day off when everyone else is at school is great. Can be a PITA if you work full time (as dp and I both do) but going to Longleat or wherever when it's quiet is fab.

Having said that DS's school are far too sensible and tend to tag INSET days onto other holidays, as do a lot of other schools locally it appears. T'aint fair.

[seeker]

And out school is having to not renew the contracts of 5 TAs this year to meet the budget cuts demanded by the LEA. We certainly couldn't afford to pay for training days in half term. OP - would you rather lose TA hours in your children's classrooms or have your child at home for a few extra days a year?

People don't realize quite ho tight school budgets are.

[bartell70]

well as we speak I'm taking issue with the head over it.

On the pay issue if I had a job paying anywhere from 25k to 40k depending on teachers grade and location, Id be happy to do that job and put in a extra 5 days work given the 62 days holiday!

But hey who am I to complain. Looking out for my children's education is a big no no these days.

Men in black will be knocking at my door soon for daring to raise the issue ;)

[titchy]

Oh FGS it's not 62 days a year holiday - it's 62 UNPAID days a year. Jeez...

And just cos you think £25k a year is megabucks doesn't mean it actually is. Not for 4 years training and all the shit that can go with the actual job itslef.

[cece]

I believe that when INSET days were introduced they were taken off of the teacher's holidays. So after their introduction teachers got 5 days less holiday.

I am happy to be corrected on this but that is my understanding.

[seeker]

"But hey who am I to complain. Looking out for my children's education is a big no no these days."

Ok - it's obviously absolutely no use trying to have any sort of sensible debate. You obviously care so much more about your children's education than the rest of us that i think I'll just give up, not bother to send my child to school and dump him in front of the tv for 16 hours a day.

[Irishchic]

I am confused..are teachers not paid 52 weeks of the year, (if they are permanent members of staff?)

[bartell70]

this thread was never made to make a issue of teachers pay!

But as people seem to think it is, id like any teacher to find me a job that pays £33k a year with 13 weeks unpaid holidays?

33k is the avg UK wage for a teacher and that is paid over 12 months.

This is not about how much teachers are paid or not paid, Given the job they do I think teachers are under paid. But that is a different issue!

My issue is that our children, the future teachers are losing out on an education due to lack of planning and little thought for them.

Hope that clears up a few things and stops this turning into a pay debate!

[TheBoyWithaSORNedMX5]

bartell if you're that impressed by teachers' terms and conditions of employment, why don't you train to be one?

[bartell70]

funny you should say that, just been reading up on entering teacher training

[Bramshott]

Well in that case, why not argue that she should be in school 365 days a year?

As others have said, it's not 6 days of "lost schooling" but 6 days which are always set aside for teacher training (which is generally thought to be quite a good idea - no?). The reason they are not tacked on to the end of the holidays is so that they can be fixed by individual schools to make access to trainers etc easier.

[seeker]

If you think State school children aren't at school for enough days, then don't even think about going private!

And don't try to take the moral high ground about "caring about your child's education" - it is insulting and ignorant to imply that the rest of us don't. We do, we just understand how the system works.

If you read the section on statutory school days you will realize that the 5 training days are in addition to the 190 days which the school is required to be open. So you have a non-argument.

[BigTillyMint]

When the INSET days were first introduced years ago, they were very unpopular with teachers, IIRC - they were called Baker Days.

Just found this:

INSET or Baker days
INSET or In-service Training days were introduced by the then Tory education secretary Kenneth Baker (hence Baker days) so that headteachers could bring all their staff together for training purposes. They should be an important tool for headteachers to help staff maintain and develop their professional skills and knowledge for whole school development planning.

Timing
The organisation and timing of inset days is at the discretion of the individual school and each school is expected to take local circumstances into account when planning the times. Usually they are timed to be at the beginning or end of the school holidays, as this often results in less disruption.

Attendance is voluntary
The secretary of state recognises that teachers may not want or be able to attend INSET days and expects headteachers to respect individual teachers choice and to have respect to equal opportunities.

Full-time teachers are not required to undertake INSET days outside their directed time, that is the 195 days on which the document requires them to be available for specified work, of which 190 are teaching days.

The five days when school sessions are not required were introduced to support a number of non-teaching activities, including INSET days. Training held on twilight hours would normally come within the directed time.

So your DD should be at school on 190 days a year. Is she?

[bartell70]

"Well in that case, why not argue that she should be in school 365 days a year?"

Is it me or would that taking it just a little too far?

I do feel that the 190 days is not enough. Tesco's complain at the standard of school leavers unable to add up or even spell.

As a advanced country we are so far behind in many things... Education been one of them.

Teachers still need training but cant schools find a better way to do it rather than closing down the whole school for 6 days a year?